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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #25

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    ALAMO


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    Post  ALAMO Fri Sep 23, 2022 1:09 am

    caveat emptor wrote:On treatment of Russian soldiers and allies in captivity:
    https://t.me/rybar/39198
    ❗🇬🇧🇺🇦 More details from Russian servicemen who returned tonight from Ukrainian captivity.
    ▪Most say that they were treated relatively well, but they were psychologically pressured a lot.  

    To be fair, both sides are doing that just the same way.
    POW chanting "Ahmat sila" is not better, they were forced to call the relatives with preprogrammed texts either.
    It is a war.
    As dirty as any civil one.

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    0nillie0
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    Post  0nillie0 Fri Sep 23, 2022 1:33 am

    Arkanghelsk wrote:

    More importantly why haven't the VKS begun to carpet bomb the VSU on the front?


    Highly mobile units with a handfull of vehicles striking at weak points along the front are not easy targets to "carpet bomb". Better to get those suicide drones and the personnel qualified to operate them dispersed in significant numbers on these points, and start picking the attackers off one by one.

    Larger formations seem to be picked off relatively well by artillery, but those suicide drones seem like a force multiplier against smaller, more mobile assault groups.

    They also induce fear in those that may have grown somewhat accustomed to less accurate artillery fire comming down around them.

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    Post  Arrow Fri Sep 23, 2022 1:39 am


    Despite what Western propaganda claims, mobilization is progressing very smoothly.

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    Post  Dr.Snufflebug Fri Sep 23, 2022 2:00 am

    Arrow wrote:
    Despite what Western propaganda claims, mobilization is progressing very smoothly.


    I glanced through some local Russian media outlets earlier today and it seemed like even some well-off local officials and politicians that could probably easily dodge it if they really wanted to just accepted.

    Mind you, local Russian media is way, WAY different from the big internationally known outlets. Way more critical of the Kremlin, way more inquisitive and so on. But they linger on, and sometimes it just comes as a surprise if provincial Russian media lends some credence to Moscow's POV.

    edit: but on a random note, anyone else noticed that YouTube started fugging with the algorithms again? I could swear that a few days ago, queries in both English and Russian on some Donbass-specific topics led to a certain set of videos, some old, some new, but as for today the same search "input" suddenly leads to three-four pages of retarded omg-evil-Putin stuff.

    Don't wanna sound like a conspiracy nutter, just an observation.

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    Post  JohninMK Fri Sep 23, 2022 2:22 am

    Dr.Snufflebug wrote:
    billybatts91 wrote:
    sundoesntrise wrote:China behaving like an autistic borderliner again.

    Taiwan is pending.. Better pick a side lest you'll be next with no friends left.

    These slant eyed bastards cannot be trusted. They are not real friends. If I'm Russia, I would not back China on the Taiwan issue. I would be neutral. Especially if more idiotic rhetoric like this comes from Beijing.

    Skip the racist-sounding jargon. "Slant eyed bastards", really?

    Some Chinese officials sugarcoat their public announcements,  but there's already multiple PLAAF Y-20s flying into Moscow each week carrying something (?), there is a lot of "suspicious" train traffic, and statements by other officials that don't rhyme at all with these western-directed ditto.

    Stuff is going on.

    Do you really believe that Russian and Chinese diplomats are not well aware of what the other is doing and in full agreement? Probably after planning it all out.

    This is a hard man, soft man move on the US, trying to keep an unpredictable adversary at arms length, out of harms way.

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    Post  ALAMO Fri Sep 23, 2022 2:29 am

    [quote="JohninMK"]
    Dr.Snufflebug wrote:

    Do you really believe that Russian and Chinese diplomats are not well aware of what the other is doing and in full agreement? Probably after planning it all out.

    This is a hard man, soft man move on the US, trying to keep an unpredictable adversary at arms length, out of harms way.

    I will just make a friendly remind to you folks.
    It was today (or yesterday?) that the Chinese MoFA just nulled the ideas to deprive Russa of the UN presidium chair.
    Sure that the whole chucpa was pre-staged, still it gives a good background how the China will act in the real terms.
    Just take a look at how Wang Yi is behaving towards Lavrov, and you will know all you need welcome

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    Post  JohninMK Fri Sep 23, 2022 2:30 am

    Can Russians fighting with Wagner be called up. They don't seem to be excluded.
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    Post  caveat emptor Fri Sep 23, 2022 2:34 am

    JohninMK wrote:Can Russians fighting with Wagner be called up. They don't seem to be excluded.
    They are already in Ukraine or some of the other hotspots. I'm guessing that administration has a list of all their fighters
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    Post  sepheronx Fri Sep 23, 2022 2:34 am

    jhelb wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:The majority of fighting I will bet you will still be the LDNR forces, mercenaries, Cossacks and Chechens.  
    Russia doesn't hire mercenaries. Those fighting against Ukros are locals from the eastern part of Ukraine.

    Wasn't expecting an Indian street shitter scumbag to know any better.

    I'm not even Indian.  Then again, you prove your stupidity just by posting. I bet outside of this, you do so just by breathing.

    Wagner is a mercenary group dumbass.

    JohninMK wrote:Can Russians fighting with Wagner be called up. They don't seem to be excluded.

    They already fighting in Ukraine so probably not gonna bother.

    0nillie0 wrote:
    Arkanghelsk wrote:

    More importantly why haven't the VKS begun to carpet bomb the VSU on the front?


    Highly mobile units with a handfull of vehicles striking at weak points along the front are not easy targets to "carpet bomb". Better to get those suicide drones and the personnel qualified to operate them dispersed in significant numbers on these points, and start picking the attackers off one by one.

    Larger formations seem to be picked off relatively well by artillery, but those suicide drones seem like a force multiplier against smaller, more mobile assault groups.

    They also induce fear in those that may have grown somewhat accustomed to less accurate artillery fire comming down around them.

    You are responding to a well known idiot.

    He has asked this question and getting same answers even by actual professionals here, for quite some time. He is just obtuse.

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    Post  Hole Fri Sep 23, 2022 2:47 am

    https://twitter.com/tom_username_/status/1573003754080817152?cxt=HHwWgMC-hZGlt9QrAAAA
    Video shows a guy (Yegor) showing up to enlistment, he previously worked for some special Orchestra.

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    Post  Hole Fri Sep 23, 2022 2:48 am

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #25 - Page 31 Fdq3kq10
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #25 - Page 31 Fdrt_810
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #25 - Page 31 Fdrvwp10

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    Post  Backman Fri Sep 23, 2022 2:51 am

    Kadyrov was asking for 85,000. They went with 300,000.

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    Post  franco Fri Sep 23, 2022 3:24 am

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:One Million? thats more men than needed unless the russians really wanna get this war done fast but still mobilize one million men takes months as all the gear for these formations need to be supplied

    Article #7 of the degree was deemed "top secret" and not released to media and public. It apparently dealt with the actual numbers of how many, when and for what of the degree. Of course some will like to run with the unknown.

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    Post  limb Fri Sep 23, 2022 3:32 am

    In this war, we see that the russian air force simply doesnt have the numbers to coverthe front area which allows for ukrainian armored groups to attack and marshall almost unimpeded. This numerical insufficiency can be remedied by having thousands of drones like forpost and inokhodets constantly patrolling, the frontline and behind it, but russia only has a few dozen of them at best. Meanwhile russian strike aircraft are too valuable to be risked to strike behind enemy lines.

    This proves that retiring the MiG-27 and Su-22M4 was a mistake. They were affordable and effective ground attack aircraft with just as much, if not more, modernization potential than the Su-25. The MiG-27K had a far superior laser targeting system than the vanilla Su-25 for example. If russia still had a few hundred Su-22M4s and MiG-27s, it could use them instead of overkill aircraft like the Su-34 for battlefield interdiction.
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    Post  Backman Fri Sep 23, 2022 3:36 am

    limb wrote:In this war, we see that the russian air force simply doesnt have the numbers to coverthe front area which allows for ukrainian armored groups to attack and marshall almost unimpeded. This numerical insufficiency can be remedied by having thousands of  drones like forpost and inokhodets constantly  patrolling, the frontline and behind it, but russia only has a few dozen of them at best. Meanwhile russian strike aircraft are too valuable to be risked to strike behind enemy lines.

    This proves that retiring the MiG-27 and Su-22M4 was a mistake. They were affordable and effective ground attack aircraft with just as much, if not more, modernization potential than the Su-25. The MiG-27K had a far superior laser targeting system than the vanilla Su-25 for example. If russia still had a few hundred Su-22M4s and MiG-27s, it could use them instead of overkill aircraft like the Su-34 for battlefield interdiction.

    The airforce was constrained by the legalities of the SMO. Not for lack of freaking aircraft. If this was Russia's full airforce potential if not for some retired Mig 27's, Nato would have attacked Russia a long time ago.

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    Post  franco Fri Sep 23, 2022 3:39 am

    Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu clarified plans for partial mobilization announced today

    The decree "On the announcement of partial mobilization in the Russian Federation", signed by Vladimir Putin, is published on the website of legal information. Its entry into force today was announced by the president himself as part of his speech.

    According to the document, only citizens who have served in the Russian army in certain military specialties and are currently in the reserve are subject to conscription. According to Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu, there is no talk of conscripting students and other students, and conscripts will not be sent to the NVO zone. In addition, employees of the military-industrial complex will receive a "booking".

    We will call from the reserve, these are not some people who have never served. These are those who have served and have a military specialty and combat experience, he said.

    In total, it is planned to call up 300,000 reserve servicemen, all those called up for military service will receive the same monetary content as contract servicemen. Mandatory additional military training is provided for, taking into account the experience of conducting a special military operation.

    At the same time, for the duration of the decree on mobilization, servicemen can retire from the ranks of the Russian Armed Forces only for several reasons: reaching the age limit, health status, or in connection with deprivation of liberty by a court verdict. All contracts concluded earlier remain valid until the end of partial mobilization.

    https://topwar-ru.translate.goog/202143-ministr-oborony-sergej-shojgu-vnes-jasnost-v-plany-chastichnoj-mobilizacii-objavlennoj-s-segodnjashnego-dnja.html?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en

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    Post  Arkanghelsk Fri Sep 23, 2022 3:40 am

    0nillie0 wrote:

    Highly mobile units with a handfull of vehicles striking at weak points along the front are not easy targets to "carpet bomb".


    Except highly mobile units with a handful of vehicles did not retake Balakliya, Kupyansk and the other settlements

    The DRGs did not start their small unit tactics until after Balakliya fell

    It was a large group of forces that entered the city

    So the question is again, what the VKS is doing ?

    Small unit DRGs are not the ones making the pressure on the front, those little saboteur groups are eliminated whenever they probe the line

    All they do is test for weakness to send the large follow on force

    It is the large force which should be hunted and carpet bombed by the VKS
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    Post  Arkanghelsk Fri Sep 23, 2022 3:41 am

    Backman wrote:

    The airforce was constrained by the legalities of the SMO. Not for lack of freaking aircraft. If this was Russia's full airforce potential if not for some retired Mig 27's, Nato would have attacked Russia a long time ago.

    And who set the rules of engagement ?

    Why don't you say it?

    Why doesn't any dumbass on this forum admit what is the main constraint on the military?

    Say who designed this stupid "SMO"
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    Post  thegopnik Fri Sep 23, 2022 3:42 am

    have some laughs.

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #25 - Page 31 16638710

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    Post  Arkanghelsk Fri Sep 23, 2022 3:43 am

    sepheronx wrote:

    You are responding to a well known idiot.

    He has asked this question and getting same answers even by actual professionals here, for quite some time.  He is just obtuse.

    Is it all going according to plan?

    You clowns went quiet a while ago, when you talk so much bullshit I guess it's known why
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    Post  franco Fri Sep 23, 2022 3:44 am

    The State Duma will consider the possibility of sending mobilized ex-fighters of OMON and SOBR to units of the National Guard

    Mobilized reserve servicemen with experience in the OMON or SOBR will be able to continue serving in the units of the Russian Guard, and not the Armed Forces, if they wish. The corresponding bill will be considered by the State Duma.

    According to the head of the State Duma Committee on Information Policy Alexander Khinshtein, the Russian Guard applied with a corresponding initiative, proposing to consider the possibility of service in the ranks of the department of SOBR and OMON servicemen mobilized from the reserve. In addition, it is proposed to secure for them the right to conclude short-term contracts not only for the military, but also for law enforcement service in the National Guard. However, this will not be mandatory, ex-siloviki can choose to serve in the army if they wish.

    Together with colleagues from the Rogsvardia and other departments, we started developing initiatives even earlier that will allow us to send military personnel mobilized from the reserve with experience in the police or police special forces, as well as in the internal troops, for further service in the Russian Guard" Hinstein said.

    Meanwhile, the Ministry of Defense clarified that the autumn call for urgent military service has nothing to do with the ongoing mobilization, it will be carried out separately in a planned manner. All conscripts, regardless of the VUS, will serve on the territory of Russia, there will be no dispatch to the NWO zone. At the same time, all conscripts whose term of service has expired will be dismissed and sent to their places of residence.

    It is planned to call up 120,000 conscripts for the autumn conscription, which fully satisfies the needs of the Ministry of Defense, even taking into account the special operation in Ukraine.

    https://topwar-ru.translate.goog/202236-v-gosdume-rassmotrjat-vozmozhnost-otpravki-mobilizovannyh-jeks-bojcov-omon-i-sobr-v-podrazdelenija-rosgvardii.html?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en

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    Post  Arkanghelsk Fri Sep 23, 2022 3:45 am

    franco wrote:The State Duma will consider the possibility of sending mobilized ex-fighters of OMON and SOBR to units of the National Guard

    Mobilized reserve servicemen with experience in the OMON or SOBR will be able to continue serving in the units of the Russian Guard, and not the Armed Forces, if they wish. The corresponding bill will be considered by the State Duma.

    According to the head of the State Duma Committee on Information Policy Alexander Khinshtein, the Russian Guard applied with a corresponding initiative, proposing to consider the possibility of service in the ranks of the department of SOBR and OMON servicemen mobilized from the reserve. In addition, it is proposed to secure for them the right to conclude short-term contracts not only for the military, but also for law enforcement service in the National Guard. However, this will not be mandatory, ex-siloviki can choose to serve in the army if they wish.

    Together with colleagues from the Rogsvardia and other departments, we started developing initiatives even earlier that will allow us to send military personnel mobilized from the reserve with experience in the police or police special forces, as well as in the internal troops, for further service in the Russian Guard" Hinstein said.

    Meanwhile, the Ministry of Defense clarified that the autumn call for urgent military service has nothing to do with the ongoing mobilization, it will be carried out separately in a planned manner. All conscripts, regardless of the VUS, will serve on the territory of Russia, there will be no dispatch to the NWO zone. At the same time, all conscripts whose term of service has expired will be dismissed and sent to their places of residence.

    It is planned to call up 120,000 conscripts for the autumn conscription, which fully satisfies the needs of the Ministry of Defense, even taking into account the special operation in Ukraine.

    https://topwar-ru.translate.goog/202236-v-gosdume-rassmotrjat-vozmozhnost-otpravki-mobilizovannyh-jeks-bojcov-omon-i-sobr-v-podrazdelenija-rosgvardii.html?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en

    Didn't you guys throw a fit when I used the word conscripts?

    Laughing
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    Post  calripson Fri Sep 23, 2022 3:47 am

    limb wrote:In this war, we see that the russian air force simply doesnt have the numbers to coverthe front area which allows for ukrainian armored groups to attack and marshall almost unimpeded. This numerical insufficiency can be remedied by having thousands of  drones like forpost and inokhodets constantly  patrolling, the frontline and behind it, but russia only has a few dozen of them at best. Meanwhile russian strike aircraft are too valuable to be risked to strike behind enemy lines.

    This proves that retiring the MiG-27 and Su-22M4 was a mistake. They were affordable and effective ground attack aircraft with just as much, if not more, modernization potential than the Su-25. The MiG-27K had a far superior laser targeting system than the vanilla Su-25 for example. If russia still had a few hundred Su-22M4s and MiG-27s, it could use them instead of overkill aircraft like the Su-34 for battlefield interdiction.

    Those few hundred Su 22 and Mig 27s would be shot down in short order. It is not a question of not enough aircraft, it is a question of the inability to establish air dominance as the ELINT, EW, and targeting is being done by NATO at a very high level.
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    Post  Dr.Snufflebug Fri Sep 23, 2022 3:47 am

    limb wrote:In this war, we see that the russian air force simply doesnt have the numbers to coverthe front area which allows for ukrainian armored groups to attack and marshall almost unimpeded. This numerical insufficiency can be remedied by having thousands of  drones like forpost and inokhodets constantly  patrolling, the frontline and behind it, but russia only has a few dozen of them at best. Meanwhile russian strike aircraft are too valuable to be risked to strike behind enemy lines.

    This proves that retiring the MiG-27 and Su-22M4 was a mistake. They were affordable and effective ground attack aircraft with just as much, if not more, modernization potential than the Su-25. The MiG-27K had a far superior laser targeting system than the vanilla Su-25 for example. If russia still had a few hundred Su-22M4s and MiG-27s, it could use them instead of overkill aircraft like the Su-34 for battlefield interdiction.

    We're not in the 70's anymore, dude.

    Frontline attack aircraft are extremely vulnerable because of widespread MANPADS. The only reason old useless dinosaurs like the Su-25 and the A-10 still linger on is because they have been proven to be very good at general CAS in less MANPADs-saturated environments. They were designed with some survivability in a light AAA (implying guns and cannons) environment, not the way a frontline battlefield looks today...(1)

    All of the shit that MiG-27s and Su-17/22s did back in the day is now drones, drones, drones. Because they WILL get shot down from time to time, and it's better to lose an unmanned drone than a very expensive (years of training) pilot. Even better if you lose a cheap import drone (hint: Iran, Russia actually pays for things, unlike Zelensky's Ukraine who is just gifted shit from all over the place(2).

    (1) The A-10 and the Su-25 were both designed for ridiculous survivability, they both excel at it. But the A-10 also has a gigantic main autocannon that is pretty much useless except for local troop support in an environment where you already fully control the airspace. It was designed to destroy heavily armored vehicles, and by the time it was fielded it couldn't. As this weapon is overkill for every mission it can realistically do something good in (lighter cannon pods, rocket pods etc would do a much better job), and it takes up a good chunk of the A-10s overall weight since it's simply built-in, the A-10 is the worse platform of the two, ironically enough.

    (2) Because it is not about Ukraine, it is about sticking it to Russia. Ukraine's just a convenient pawn for the time being. So they get weapons for "free" (western tax payers being kept in the dark, of course), for now anyway.


    Last edited by Dr.Snufflebug on Fri Sep 23, 2022 3:51 am; edited 1 time in total

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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #25 - Page 31 Empty Tells You everything You Need To Know

    Post  calripson Fri Sep 23, 2022 3:48 am

    thegopnik wrote:have some laughs.

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #25 - Page 31 16638710

    Peek under the covers and it tells you everything you need to know about who is running the show.

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