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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #19

    nomadski
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    Post  nomadski Thu Jun 23, 2022 9:13 am


    My father , nor I , sat on a golden chair . Although we could have done , like many . The leader , does not sit on a golden chair , a wooden one is much better ! Good to see that the Caspian will be free from foreign infestation . Russia will not be blockaded by the West , from maritime trade . The Persian Gulf will provide ports for Russia , and China too can provide facilities .

    Backman wrote " Russia gave the Ukraine military a chance to stand back before the war. Then during the first 2 week. And then one more chance to avoid certain death before phase 2. Zero sympathy. " Looking at these men , it is obvious they are spent . Providing a safe route for them to surrender , if possible , will be more effective than eliminating them . Russia should also find alternative political figures in Ukraine , other than the Nazis , to negotiate with .

    A plan for a ceasefire after liberation of LDPR . Division of territory by referendum into Russian and Ukrainian autonomous sectors , even a federation . A peaceful route still possible , but not with the clown Nazis in power . Any candidates on the Uki side ?


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    Vann7


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    Post  Vann7 Thu Jun 23, 2022 9:16 am

    Another good report.


    Disaster! Russian Breakthrough at VRUBIVKA

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    Post  Hinex1988 Thu Jun 23, 2022 12:14 pm

    ⚡ Russian Defence Ministry report on the progress of the special military operation in Ukraine (June 23, 2022)

    ❗ The enemy continues suffering considerable losses.

    ▪ The defeated 34th Battalion of the 57th Mechanised Infantry Brigade of the Armed Forces of Ukraine (AFU) has lost over 150 persons killed and about 450 persons wounded near Mirnaya Dolina (Lugansk People's Republic).

    ▫ There are no more than 15-20 soldiers left in each company of this battalion. Junior commanders have abandoned their personnel and deserted from the operations area.

    ▪ Units of the 30th Mechanised Brigade of the AFU near Klinovoye (Donetsk People's Republic) have been left with less than 50% of personnel as a result of attacks launched by the Russian Armed Forces. More than 170 other critically wounded soldiers and officers have been evacuated by their command from the operations area.

    ▫ Russian Federation Armed Forces continue launching attacks at military facilities located in Ukraine.

    💥 On June 22, high-precision armament of Russian Aerospace Forces eliminated 49 fuel storage facilities designed for AFU military equipment, as well as up to 50 combat vehicles with multiple rocket launchers in hangars, including foreign-manufactured ones.

    💥 High-precision armament of Russian Aerospace Forces has also neutralised 3 armoured vehicle reparation bases near Nikolayev, 4 command posts, manpower and military equipment at 18 areas.

    ✈ Operational-tactical and army aviation has eliminated manpower and military equipment at 96 areas and 1 radar post near Konstantinovka (Kharkov region).

    💥 Missile troops and artillery has neutralised 26 command posts, AFU manpower and military equipment at 364 areas, as well as Ukrainian artillery units at 58 areas, including 1 plattoon of M-777 155-mm howitzers on Kubansky island and 1 plattoon of Smerch MRLS near Novopokrovskoye (Donetsk People's Republic).

    ▪ 3 unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) mobile control posts have been destroyed near Zhovtnevaya, Kiselyovka and Barmashovo (Nikolayev region).

    💥 Within the counter-battery warfare towards Donetsk, high-precision armament of Russian Aerospace Forces, missile troops and artillery have neutralised: 8 Ukrainian plattoons of Uragan MRLS near Avdeyevka, Vesyoloye, Dzerzhinsk, Novoluganskoye and Kurdyumovka, as well as 11 AFU cannon artillery plattoons at their firing positions near Novopokrovskoye, Galitsinovka, Artyomovsk, Chasov-Yar, Krutaya Balka, Avdeyevka, Novovesyolovka and near Kleban-Byk water storage basin that had been shelling the city of Donetsk and other settlements of the Donetsk People's Republic.

    ✈💥 Attacks launched by aviation, missile troops and artillery have resulted in the elimination of over 650 nationalists, 17 tanks and other armoured combat vehicles, 3 combat vehicles with Smerch MRLS, as well as 17 special vehicles.

    💥Russian air defence troops have destroyed 21 Ukrainian UAVs near Snake Island, Petropolye, Strelechye, Malaya Kamyshevakha, Dementiyevka (Kharkov region), Skadovsk (Kherson region), Donetsk, Gorlovka, Donetskiy (Donetsk People's Republic), Gorskoye, Oknino (Lugansk People's Republic) and Novaya Sburyevka (Kherson region).

    💥 1 Tochka-U ballistic missile has been intercepted near Peski Ratkovskiye (Kharkov region) and 22 MRLS projectiles near Donetsk, Makeyevka, Gorlovka, Kamyshevakha (Donetsk People's Republic), Chervonoye, Izyum, Sukhaya Kamenka (Kharkov region) and above Snake Island.

    📊 In total, 211 airplanes and 132 helicopters, 1,329 unmanned aerial vehicles, 349 anti-aircraft missile systems, 3,750 tanks and other armored combat vehicles, 647 combat vehicles equipped with multiple rocket-launching systems, 2,088 field artillery cannons and mortars, as well as 3,818 units of special military equipment have been destroyed during the special military operation.

    #MoD #Russia #Ukraine
    @mod_russia_en

    https://t.me/mod_russia_en/2366

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    Post  Hole Thu Jun 23, 2022 12:43 pm

    Erk wrote:
    Bulgarian Prime Minister Kiril Petkov lost a no-confidence vote in the parliament on Wednesday, after a junior partner in his tenuous ruling coalition joined the opposition. The Harvard graduate and former Canadian citizen denounced his critics as Russian agents
     https://www.rt.com/news/557651-bulgaria-government-falls-ukraine-economy/

    What sort of a country elects someone that is not born in that country as a Prime Minister?

    A colony.

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    Post  Hole Thu Jun 23, 2022 12:50 pm

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #19 - Page 11 Fv6wlb10
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #19 - Page 11 Fv7bkc10
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #19 - Page 11 Fv7cwf10

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    Post  Hole Thu Jun 23, 2022 12:51 pm

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #19 - Page 11 Fv5ha210
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #19 - Page 11 Fv5r0y10
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #19 - Page 11 Fv6mjv10

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    Post  GarryB Thu Jun 23, 2022 1:24 pm

    What you want is for everyone to believe in everything russia says has facts while not believing a single dam thing Ukraine says (Unless it suits your narrative).

    Based on normal logic you have to get away from the idea of good guys and bad guys, and accept that some are liars and others tell the truth as they know it.

    In that regard we have clear track records for all parties involved and so far the side to believe is the Russians, and the side to ignore is Kievs and the British and the American and the EU version of events.

    It really is that simple.

    Russia has lied to try and cover up some tactical failures, such as the river crossing etc.

    Lied? There has been a lot of speculation about what happened with no confirmation. Russia has not stated everything is going their way and that they have made no mistakes.

    Kiev tells us the counter offensive starts in Autumn so this time next year they will have the Crimea back... by force.

    For instance Slovenia is transporting BVP M-80 IFVs to Ukraine. Why isn't Russia targeting these supply routes?

    Because letting them get to the front line, it is easy to destroy them when they are full of Orcs so you kill the vehicle easily enough and you also eliminate some orcs at the same time.

    Rather more impact on the enemy than telling them some APCs are on the way... and oops now they are not coming...

    Russia has used more long range precision weapons than anyone in the West thought was possible, but they are still limited in the amount they can launch on a daily basis. They must retain a large reserve taking into account possible escalations with NATO.

    They will have humint resources in place, but will have to fully confirm targets are what they think they are... Kiev would love for them to hit a building with nuns or school children in it rather than a Nazi barracks they were expecting.... the cameras would be on site before the attack even started...

    However, it would make a lot of difference in a country like Ukraine if used in large quantities.

    So you want thousands of drones operating in Ukraine... who is going to be operating all these thousands of drones considering the size of the operational Russian force being used they don't have the numbers to hold the territory they have and also support and operate drones and artillery and air power... that is just stupid.

    In terms of bang for buck one drone providing recon for artillery battery is vastly more powerful than 1,000 suicide drones.

    Ukraine does not have air defenses in large numbers for medium and high altitudes.

    The Russians don't have enough soldiers in the Ukraine to operate all these magic drones you are dreaming about... and they have thousands of stingers.

    Many posts show formations and columns of tanks, bmp and transports roaming freely without any cover. They would be potential targets without a shadow of a doubt.

    And how much damage would a drone make with a column of enemy forces?

    Compared with say an artillery spotting drone or an attack helicopter or CAS aircraft.

    I think that the Russian Armed Forces have already reached this conclusion, since they are increasing the production of attack drones a lot.

    You are assuming many things here with no supporting evidence. Suddenly seeing videos from drones is not evidence they have not been used up until now... Russian artillery started the use of drones during the cold war and are the branch of the Russian military with the most experience with drones and drone use... it is the reason they use laser guided shells because their drones have laser target markers built in to them.

    I used the Predator as an example. The MQ-9 Reapers are the modern version of them. In spite of all the advances drones are deficiencies of the Russian armed forces.

    When was the last time the US operated such drones freely and widely over territory where the enemy had BUK and S-300 systems operating?

    Such drones are sitting ducks to even very average air defence systems... which is why the US is not sending those heavier drones because they know the Su-35s would easily chase them down and butcher them.

    Russia has a few types in those sorts of categories, but we don't know what they have or have not deployed... such drones would not be that useful because even a big drone like the ones you mention only carry half a dozen weapons at best and would be next to useless taking out a column of enemy forces caught out in the open.

    That's one of directions. Loitering suicidal drones would also be nice to dive on targets just approved by an operator. But for now small light quadcopter drones would add a lot of value in close combat or ambush detection. Hard to detect and even harder to hit. Is aad missiles as used its pretty expensive deal...

    Drones solve specific problems... but problems Russia does not have in this conflict. A single drone can be used to direct artillery from multiple batteries depending on where the enemy is located... one drone using cameras and a datalink can provide target information that allows entire columns of enemy to be wiped out via air power or artillery... you don't need thousands of drones... and these so called suicide drones are pathetic... their payloads seem to be too small and therefore their lethality is marginal... compared to a 152mm shell or a 203mm shell they are rubbish.

    I don't believe in invincible tanks, everyone is subject to defeat. However, a more sophisticated tank has a greater chance of survival and greater attack potential. Otherwise why don't we stay at T 34?

    If you send in better tanks the enemy will simply use different tactics... land mines and IEDs etc etc.

    The point is that these forces operate these vehicles... changing vehicles for a fight is short sighted.

    Kalibr and Iskander are Russia's top weapons today, even though they've been in service for a long time. Kinzhal is another very new type of weapon that probably doesn't have enough strength to make a difference on the battlefield.

    Kinzhal seems to be able to reach deep into buried underground bunkers and destroyed the contents... contents I am sure minutes before the attack thought they were safe... then all of a sudden Zelensky is in front of a green screen...

    Drones are a nice tool , but they will remain a minor player until more drones are produced, and can fly in true autonomous fashion and conduct air warfare on their own

    Until then, it's just another toy

    They are what the west based its whole plans on... drones would sneak through and take out all of Russias formidable air defence forces and then the western air force would just breeze in and clean it up like it did with Iraq... except they are not that effective.

    Long-range artillery fire is fixed by drones. How does it make no difference?

    But you said they weren't using drones.

    And you didn't need to repeat that entire conversation just to make that one comment did you?

    Now, Ukraine is limiting the use of TB-2s to 'rare special occasions and attack missions,' said one of the pilots.

    Like for massacres of Kievs gear on a certain island in the Black Sea.

    French politician Régis de Castelnau:
    “Another achievement for Macron. Two French CAESAR self-propelled guns were captured by the Russians unharmed.

    As soon as they mentioned they were sending them I said they would mount missions to capture them.

    The caravan hunters captured all sorts of stuff in Afghanistan including Stinger Missiles, Blowpipe missiles, and Milan anti tank guided missiles... amongst other items.

    Nice trophy yes but I don't think there will be much the Russians can learn from it - let alone wasting their time reverse engineering it >>>

    For every design there are solutions to problems.... and every solution is a trade off of cost or complexity etc etc

    Looking at the solutions the french took with their design will be valuable... even just to work out where to hit it to take it out efficiently.

    Nope bipolar just amazed by how stupid sometimes russians can be and how hyped they are with their AD.

    I have not come across a single Russian who has stated the entire territory of Russia is invincible and protected from all air based threats.

    In comparison, most western countries are seives for drug smugglers and all sorts of other aerial infiltrations every day... are they stupid too?

    They are spending too much money on AD and clearly not enough on the airforce which could have destroyed the airports this drone operated from

    These drones could have operated from any stretch of road... the west is totally in the shit in this regard because they spent all their money on their aircraft which are eye wateringly expensive... to expensive to even operate... and what defences would they have to that?

    The Ukraine flew a subsonic drone into HATO territory which was a front line which all of HATO planes and satellites and resources would be watching and it crash landed without being shot down too.

    They should have had at least 100 su-57 by now if they invested enough money in it instead of S-500 which has no real use in an atomic war.

    Su-57s would be less use than their air defence forces... even Pantsir and TOR have shot down more drones and enemy threats than 100 Su-57s could manage.

    Now they have to keep the few su-35 they have far away from danger because they don't have enough of them. Su-30 and su-34 don't seem to have any survivability against soviet made AD systems with their huge rcs.

    Should be a real eye opener for HATO really... how will they go against Russian air defence?

    I also think Russia should have at least 300 SU 35 which is what is possible now. Su 57 will only have production cadence when the new engine has been completed.

    Well I am sure they would be interested in your opinion but they are going to put 76 Su-57s into service and operate them for a bit to decide whether the extra operational costs are worth the improved performance. Once they have more Su-57s in service and more experience operating with them they might freeze production of the Su-35 and put in a second order for Su-57s... but by then the LTS will likely be starting to get ready and any MiG equivalent will also be at a point where they can look at them both as options to an affordable fleet of modern aircraft...

    Peresvet can blind them all , the question is: blinding US military sats means war. But private companies....

    Eventually the US is going to offer an escalation that warrants it... or perhaps Kiev is stupid enough to try to attack Crimea...

    Send an arty shell with instructions on how to surrender to the Z-Forces their way.
    At least give them a chance to walk out alive.

    And when the nazis read these notes they will know where to aim to shoot their own in the back as they surrender... if these guys want to surrender then drop your weapon and run away... or shoot your officers and then run away and then drop your weapon.

    Either by Speakers, leaflets spread by red artillery shells or radio frequency intercept. An offer and instructions to Surrender is easily made.
    If they refuse. so be it.
    Then its an direct millitary solution.
    They are in the way after all.

    I appreciate what you are saying, but the people in charge of these forces don't want to give up their meat shields and certainly don't want to end up captured either because they probably have done things that will get them hung.

    Besides... what are they going to do with all these prisoners?

    Every time I am struck by the intensity of the stupidity of Western propaganda - as well as the number of people who believe it unconditionally in the West

    Especially when such people actually think the people of the Soviet Union and also Russia were mindless drones that believed everything their governments tell them... ironic really.

    Most Russians and Soviets were skeptical of their own governments and hated them for all their lies... and then they were exposed to western governments and their promises.... hahahaha.

    A peaceful route still possible , but not with the clown Nazis in power . Any candidates on the Uki side ?

    Any serious opposition to Zelensky is in jail or murdered... opposition parties are banned too... any replacement will just be more of the same...



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    Post  GarryB Thu Jun 23, 2022 1:35 pm

    For LSOS, when I was at university my professor (ex CIA) and expert in cyber security stated that the job for the attacker is always easier than for the defender.

    To defend against attack is like trying to defend a high rise building where all the windows open and people have to have regular access to various areas of the building but also some areas some people need access and others need to be kept out.

    Security is making sure all the doors and windows that should be shut and locked at any one time are locked and it needs constant suveillance because some user allowed to be in some place might open a window they are not supposed to open... maybe the AC failed or the heater is stuck on or off, or they leave a door open that should be locked.

    The point is that the thief or burglar just needs to find one open door or one open window.

    Russias air defence capacity is formidable, but every operational radar can be detected, located and from that they have accurate digital maps of the region so they will know gaps and blind spots for those positions.

    The Russians don't have unlimited air defence resources so they will locate their available systems to defend targets of strategic importance.

    There will be thousands of things the Orcs could decide to target, and they have HATO support telling them where the radars are sweeping... a low speed drone could follow a road and fly low and appear to be a car or constantly change direction and appear to be a bird or group of birds... the point is that the damage done is symbolic and more superficial than could be termed actual damage... in comparison... their soldiers are being slaughtered to the point that makes some members here uncomfortable...

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    Post  Dr.Snufflebug Thu Jun 23, 2022 2:37 pm

    Supposedly, two Caesar SPGs were captured (or deserted) intact and promptly shipped to Nizhny Tagil.

    Could just be trolling by an UVZ employee, who knows.

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    Post  ALAMO Thu Jun 23, 2022 3:07 pm

    Dr.Snufflebug wrote:Supposedly, two Caesar SPGs were captured (or deserted) intact and promptly shipped to Nizhny Tagil.

    Could just be trolling by an UVZ employee, who knows.

    Maybe UVZ needs some speed catching up with Bureviestnik Laughing Laughing

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    Post  Scorpius Thu Jun 23, 2022 3:11 pm

    Just according to rough estimates, by the time the conflict began, Russia possessed about 7.5 thousand units of high-precision missile weapons, including Calibers, Iskanders, and main air, sea and land-based strike weapons (all these missiles with the Kh index). The ability to produce "Calibers" is roughly estimated at 200 units per year in peacetime - at present, this could easily be scaled three times. Good luck to all those who are waiting for Russia to run out of missiles. Of course, all the figures are approximate, invented and there will be no sources of information. These are only approximate estimates, which may, for example, be two or three times wrong.

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    Post  ATLASCUB Thu Jun 23, 2022 3:19 pm

    https://www.rt.com/russia/557675-medvedev-criticizes-european-politicians/

    The German military will contribute considerably to the strengthening of NATO’s east flank, the country’s Chancellor, Olaf Scholz, has announced. He also promised major investment that would turn the Bundeswehr into the largest military force among European members of the US-led military bloc.

    Speaking before the German parliament on Wednesday, Scholz assured fellow lawmakers that Berlin would “defend every square meter” of NATO territory, if necessary. The chancellor added that the alliance’s members in Eastern Europe could count on Germany. The country would increase its military presence in the region, including in and around the Baltic Sea, Scholz revealed.

    Among the countries where the Bundeswehr will be permanently stationed as part of NATO forces is Lithuania. The Baltic state’s already strained relations with Moscow further escalated last week when Vilnius decided to block the transit of sanctioned goods to Russia’s Kaliningrad exclave. The Kremlin warned it would retaliate severely.

    Commenting on Germany’s and NATO’s relations with Russia, Scholz pointed out that a partnership with the eastern neighbor is “unimaginable in the foreseeable future” now that an “imperialist Russia” has attacked Ukraine.

    The German head of government warned, however, against terminating any of the fundamental agreements currently existing between the military alliance and Russia.

    We will campaign more than ever for the preservation of an international order that is based on law rather than force,” the German chancellor clarified

    It doesn't take a genius to figure out what Germany's modernization plans are about, who they're aimed against and what the low hanging fruits are. The EU (Germany/France/Poland + UK/US) will not allow Russia as an economic, political competitor in Europe.

    Between that and Polish ambitions and talks of annexing Kaliningrad.... you're seeing the impending danger, and machinations in motion that place that Russian enclave in serious permanent danger. It won't be long before either the Germans or Polish qualify Kaliningrad as Russian "occupied territory" with U.S/UK backing.

    Now the dimwitts will claim "nuke Germany, nuke Poland" as the solution to any military move on Kaliningrad but we know damn well the Russian leadership ain't gonna do shit like that and trade Kaliningrad for Moscow. Thus, NATO is working towards a fait acompli when it comes to Kaliningrad.

    I just hope 3-4 years from now I won't have to hear the cries pouring out of Moscow about the evil West bent on their destruction by doing some provocation around that region. Russians have been plenty warned and the indicators are all over the place letting you know what Russia's enemies are planning, and their targets.

    The cargo disruption by Lithuania is just but one Salvo of many more to come as the pieces of the puzzle start to align for Russia's enemies. German army modernization been one of many moving puzzle parts.

    The current Russian leadership either has the choice of merely crying in public and dismissing the cargo embargo as a provocation handed down from Washington (aka "we must not take the bait" fake wise guy opinion) or taking the matter seriously and ensuring that Kaliningrad is able to be defended by conventional means against a NATO incursion of Poland/Germany (after getting beefed up militarily in 3-5 yrs)....

    If the Russian leadership truly believes the slogans that come out from their mouthpieces about a "definitive" break with the West then there shouldn't surprise anyone when in the future a crises of this magnitude manifests itself for Kaliningrad or anything elsewhere. The real question is, you knew the potential..... what did you about it to position yourself in the best possible way to defend your territory?

    A land route and strategically cutting off the Baltic stooges from the rest of NATO by land is imperative. The more the Russian leadership postpones this action (slicing Lithuania and stealing some of its land) the harder it will get to solve it later down the road. Russia currently has the casus belli to do so. Now you can be a fucking loser and say "don't take the bait" and all that babble, just like in 2014 when the U.S flipped Ukraine, to then change tune quick like a whore when rent money comes due 8 years later (since this Special Operation got announced)... but you're only shooting yourself in the foot and lauding how wise you're by doing it.

    Ukraine is but the perfect illustration of delusions of "quick victory" and all the other BS that seems to even infect some of Russia's top brass until reality hits like a 10 ton brick. If you postpone and wait till the last moment of a crisis, doing such an operation will be infinitely more difficult  as your enemies would have prepared themselves for it. So the sooner the stooges are cut off from the rest of NATO, and the sooner Kaliningrad gets a land bridge the better. Reactionary policy responding to situations that have hit fever pitch won't cut it (see Ukraine after 8 years of appeasement), punitive economic measures won't cut it - they're more or less factored in by your enemies, even if they can't fully translate into paper the effects (that is to say, it's not sufficient deterrent). There is only one true deterrent - facts on the ground making the machinations almost impossible to be acted upon. Cut the stooges, create the land bridge and let everyone know you're for real or play vocal games and get burnt later.

    But but... "it will look horrible if Russia tries to annex Lithuanian territory"... no one gives a shit dummy. Are history books that foreign to dimwitts and the weak leadership paralyzing themselves with inaction? Do you care about what the West thinks or not? Simple answer.

    Don't cry later about the massing of NATO troops at your border through the stooges, and how difficult it's to solve the problem after dismissing them as Chihuahuas and all the other BS that comes from the Kremlin leadership and their propagandist in the media and independent "analyst class" throughout the world. These countries got added to NATO for the same reason Ukraine was flipped in the geopolitical chessboard... to act as spears punching the bear, keeping it distracted and pre-occupied at their borders. NATO countries certainly don't give a shit how it looks to Russians or anybody else... just look at Ukraine, if the rest of history isn't but a massive guide.

    Russians can cut off the Baltics now and create a land bridge, blowing article 5 out of the water and exposing it as mere paper fluff while the Germans and Poles are not significantly militarized conventionally to pose a serious threat (with the U.S mired in internal strife and without the allied pieces required to mount an effective defense) or the Russian leadership can pass the buck down the road, play games, lie to itself and in effect paralyze decision making .... to ultimately pay the price later waiting for Germany to remilitarize, Poland to continue to beef up, and the stooges to continue to be reinforced. In Europe, MIGHT WILL ALWAYS MAKE RIGHT, there are only periods of false peace while everyone regroups and realigns for the eternal battle for zero-sum control of the land.

    Also keep allowing Germany to reunify as a nation over and over again, and kissing and sniffing their ass for an allegiance that never materializes... Russians allowed them to unify with Bismarck (having the ability to prevent it), and paid the price, recently the biggest Russian fool of all time, Gorby, also allowed it, and again, and paying the price (and it's just starting back up again). Same shit when the U.S fought for its war of independence really by interfering when Russia should have allowed the UK/France to devour it. Now centuries later... Russia pays the price in blood. Divide and conquer works... learn it stupid.


    Last edited by ATLASCUB on Thu Jun 23, 2022 4:04 pm; edited 4 times in total
    Isos
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    Post  Isos Thu Jun 23, 2022 3:21 pm


    I have not come across a single Russian who has stated the entire territory of Russia is invincible and protected from all air based threats.

    In comparison, most western countries are seives for drug smugglers and all sorts of other aerial infiltrations every day... are they stupid too?


    These drones could have operated from any stretch of road... the west is totally in the shit in this regard because they spent all their money on their aircraft which are eye wateringly expensive... to expensive to even operate... and what defences would they have to that?

    The Ukraine flew a subsonic drone into HATO territory which was a front line which all of HATO planes and satellites and resources would be watching and it crash landed without being shot down too.


    Su-57s would be less use than their air defence forces... even Pantsir and TOR have shot down more drones and enemy threats than 100 Su-57s could manage.

    You are always the first to say russian system would easily deal with any subsonic missiles and tomahawks would never hit Russian targets.

    An air force would hunt the drone operators, destroy the airports and would go at the enemy instead of waiting for him to come.

    Tor and pantsir will sure destroy drones but it's sukhoi that makes you win a war.

    S-500 is a useless weapon. Because when used it will be just during a nuclear mutual destruction. Su-57 are usefull against any type of enemy. Checkmate is even better by being cheaper.


    For LSOS, when I was at university my professor (ex CIA) and expert in cyber security stated that the job for the attacker is always easier than for the defender....

    He is right. Russia tries to covers all of its windows with defensive weapons instead of hunting the enemy with attack weapons. Tor and pantsir can be as good as you want they can't win a war with them.

    They know where ukrainian bases are, where political leadership is, where advanced position are... load the su-24 and attack them first before they attack you. That's how you win a war. Not by waiting in your s-400 that is uterally useless in Ukraine and launching kalibrs here and there few times a month.

    The first night they should have had 400 sukhoi loaded each with 24 bombs and rotating at least 3 times each.

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    Post  billybatts91 Thu Jun 23, 2022 4:02 pm

    Russia is gaining advantage in eastern Ukraine as forces learn from earlier mistakes, US officials say
    Broski
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    Post  Broski Thu Jun 23, 2022 4:25 pm

    concern troll

    a person who disingenuously expresses concern about an issue with the intention of undermining or derailing genuine discussion.


    I see several of them in the last few pages alone, especially when their "solutions" to Russia's "problems" just happen to line up perfectly with US/NATO doctrine or objectives.

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    Post  ATLASCUB Thu Jun 23, 2022 4:34 pm

    Dimwitts: a stupid or silly person.

    Dim: not shining brightly or clearly.
    wit: mental sharpness and inventiveness; keen intelligence.

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    Post  Arkanghelsk Thu Jun 23, 2022 4:44 pm

    🇷🇺🇺🇦❗There are reports that Ukrainian troops in Gorskoe and Zolotoe are signaling their readiness to surrender, there are up to 2,000 militants there

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #19 - Page 11 -5307810

    The decisive rout in Lughansk of the VSU will go down in Russian lore and history

    Onto Donetsk guys!!!


    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #19 - Page 11 -5305410

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    Post  mnztr Thu Jun 23, 2022 4:55 pm

    Dr.Snufflebug wrote:Supposedly, two Caesar SPGs were captured (or deserted) intact and promptly shipped to Nizhny Tagil.

    Could just be trolling by an UVZ employee, who knows.

    They may get a few ideas from it but its nothing special.

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    Post  ArgentinaGuard Thu Jun 23, 2022 5:27 pm

    Western Europeans should take up arms against their social democratic governments if they still have any warm blood. They are mummies and zombies idiotized. It seems that they do not understand that the lack of Russian energy is going to impact their "well-being" (a mix of consumerist hedonism with hippie ecology) and that there may be an economic collapse that will take them to the levels of 1930. Their grandparents and great-grandparents knew what scarcity and survival were, but they didn't.

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    Post  Hole Thu Jun 23, 2022 5:37 pm

    Broski wrote:concern troll

    a person who disingenuously expresses concern about an issue with the intention of undermining or derailing genuine discussion.


    I see several of them in the last few pages alone, especially when their "solutions" to Russia's "problems" just happen to line up perfectly with US/NATO doctrine or objectives.

    Hours and pages wasted time and time again.

    Russia kills or wounds 1.000+ Nazi troops daily, hits and destroys important targets and closes another cauldron, then the Kiev regime comes up with some invented "victory" (like a burning trashbin somewehere in Siberia) and the same special members pop up writing the same stuff over and over again.

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    Post  Hole Thu Jun 23, 2022 5:37 pm

    ALAMO wrote:
    Dr.Snufflebug wrote:Supposedly, two Caesar SPGs were captured (or deserted) intact and promptly shipped to Nizhny Tagil.

    Could just be trolling by an UVZ employee, who knows.

    Maybe UVZ needs some speed catching up with Bureviestnik Laughing Laughing

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #19 - Page 11 Fv8fq610

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    Post  Hole Thu Jun 23, 2022 5:38 pm

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #19 - Page 11 Fv8nem10
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #19 - Page 11 Fv8nem11
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #19 - Page 11 Fv8xaq10
    Goreskoe

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    Post  Hole Thu Jun 23, 2022 5:40 pm

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #19 - Page 11 Fv8bhn10
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #19 - Page 11 Fv8tce10
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #19 - Page 11 Fv8tcs10
    Another failed "counter-attack" towards Kherson. No air defence left? Who cares? Lets move a column of trucks on a main road in the middle of the day. NATO advisors are great! (ask the afghan puppet regime. Or Daesh.)

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    Post  lancelot Thu Jun 23, 2022 5:46 pm

    Hole wrote:The only way to destroy an airport is with a fucking nuclear weapon. Otherwise any damage to the runway can be repaired within hours. Using planes to bomb them over and over again is a waste of time and ressources.
    Actually there is a pretty simple way to disable an airport. It is called containerized bomblet dispersal unit. Basically a cruise missile which has a mix of explosives and anti-personnel mines. The explosives wreck the runway and the anti-personnel mines will maim anyone trying to clear the rubble. There were agreements in the 1990s in several initiatives to ban the use of mines which removed this weapon from most countries arsenals. I think Russia and the US never signed that treaty.

    ATLASCUB wrote:Among the countries where the Bundeswehr will be permanently stationed as part of NATO forces is Lithuania. The Baltic state’s already strained relations with Moscow further escalated last week when Vilnius decided to block the transit of sanctioned goods to Russia’s Kaliningrad exclave. The Kremlin warned it would retaliate severely.
    Scholz is a parochial idiot. Given the history of Lithuania, from being the stomping grounds of the Teutonic Knights "crusades" into Russia, or Latvia being the launch pad for Napoleon's invasion of Russia starting in Riga, there is a reason why Russia kept the Baltics under their thumb for as long as they did.

    ATLASCUB wrote:It doesn't take a genius to figure out what Germany's modernization plans are about, who they're aimed against and what the low hanging fruits are. The EU (Germany/France/Poland + UK/US) will not allow Russia as an economic, political competitor in Europe.
    ...
    A land route and strategically cutting off the Baltic stooges from the rest of NATO by land is imperative. The more the Russian leadership postpones this action (slicing Lithuania and stealing some of its land) the harder it will get to solve it later down the road. Russia currently has the casus belli to do so. Now you can be a fucking loser and say "don't take the bait" and all that babble, just like in 2014 when the U.S flipped Ukraine, to then change tune quick like a whore when rent money comes due 8 years later (since this Special Operation got announced)... but you're only shooting yourself in the foot and lauding how wise you're by doing it.
    There is no rush. The Baltics are fish in a barrel basically. Any troops NATO sends there will be sitting ducks. I am way more concerned with Finland to be honest. I mean their army is non-existant, it would basically turn into guerrilla warfare from day one, the problem would be length of supply lines to hold the terrain. Russia could just bomb the shit out of them with strategic bombardment and call it a day, but I think they would have to enlarge the security perimeter around St. Petersburg to maximum standard rocket artillery range. Maybe more.

    You also seem to think NATO is a unified block when it is quite far from it. Right now they have all the financial incentives to continue their hybrid war on Russia. Take those out, and you will see them fragment quite easily.

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    Post  ArgentinaGuard Thu Jun 23, 2022 5:51 pm

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #19 - Page 11 61deb16522850210ca66c281

    I love this image to think of Russia's crusade against the decadent West.

    An image from the Alexander Nevski movie (1938)

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