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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #18

    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Wed Jun 08, 2022 12:42 am

    From ZH

    Russia's military has declared that its desired strategic "land bridge" connecting Russian national territory with the Donbas and Crimea is complete, according to statements given to CNN senior national security correspondent Alex Marquardt. The Tuesday Russian military statement said that "roads and rail lines between western Russia and Crimea are operational," which marks that "the land bridge is complete."

    "Conditions have been created for the resumption of full-fledged traffic between Russia, Donbas, Ukraine and Crimea on six railway sections," Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu said. "Automobile communication has been opened from the territory of Russia along the mainland to Crimea." Thus it appears the Kremlin is touting its own 'mission accomplished' moment, at least pertaining to the eastern and southern theaters of the war.

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    Podlodka77
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    Post  Podlodka77 Wed Jun 08, 2022 12:45 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Podlodka77 wrote:TASS; 46 minutes ago
    Military operation in Ukraine

    Shoigu reported the capture of about 6.5 thousand ukrainian soldiers...

    Is this for the whole war? Because it would be minuscule number if it were

    Hopefully KIA count is bigger  

    Yes, you seem to be my countryman, but calm down a little ! Are you a tiger or a chatty mouse ?
    I am a Serb like you, which means that I am not normal when someone provokes me.
    There is no use in your and my messages, PAPADRAGON...!!!! The war was won with a rifle, not your and my messages.
    You present yourself as a fierce guy, so I openly ask you, are you fierce guy or are you a pussy ?
    PODLODKA is not a pussy, PODLODKA is just looking for an excuse to go to Donbass ! Do you have balls, tough guy ?
    I love Russia and I never doubted Russia, so I openly ask you if it is the same with you ? Are you ready ? Very Happy




    Last edited by Podlodka77 on Wed Jun 08, 2022 1:43 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Vann7


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    Post  Vann7 Wed Jun 08, 2022 1:27 am

    The russians really need to learn how to use drones in warfare. Rolling Eyes


    Need to learn to use drones in warfare indeed , in the correct ways and in correct numbers..
    just because you uploaded a photo of russian army , with a toy drone , is not proof that
    the russian army is using them 24hours a day to provide aircover to their troops , to do
    recon of enemy positions , or to use them to start massacres against their tanks , air defenses
    and soldiers hidding in trenches.

    the level of drone usage of russian airforce pales in comparison to what ukraine is doing.
    ukraine have been far away more successful with drones attacks than russia. russia use of drones
    is secondary and in limited quantities.. this is the whole point of using so many expensive cruise missiles and iskander attacks ,because they don't have enough drones to strike ukraine in meaningful ways ,even less in provide aircover to their forces in land.

    people like you proof , the bunch of ignorants people that is ruining this forum , that don't understand anything about military tactics..

    the tactics ukraine using against russia , of hiding in trenches , would have been totally useless
    against a true modern airforce , like nato major powers or israel airforce . Not a chance..
    for the only reason you see world war 1 trenches back in ukraine ,is because the very smart
    nato generals ,saw russia airforce was a paper tiger in a real precision strikes, and russian airforce use of such weapons ultra precision weapons and use of attack drones , are very very limited.


    Reality is ,the ukraine tactics of world war 1 trench warfare ,combined with lots of manpads and lots of descent air defenses against russian planes, developed by nato, have been a total massive success in turning the russian airforce in a colossal failure ,into a paper tiger.  
    and so the role of russian airforce ,in close air support have been very limited ,close to zero. You need strong strike drone support for that.

    this is why in 3 months of war , they are still struggling to capture kharkiv, a city right next to russian borders..  what took by surprise russia ,is how efficient ukrainians can be when combining drones and artillery , way way better than russia.

    if russia had a real modern airforce , with stealth planes in big numbers, and a lot of strike drones ,
    then none of this world war 1 tactics of ukraine would have been ever used . likely not even try to fight russia.  because nobody in their right mind , will hide in a fucking trench , if they know the airspace is infested with drones ,that can strike at them with laser precision and blow out them in a thousands of pieces.. this is how armenia collapsed in the nagorno war..  azerbaijan smashed armenians in trenches , like shooting ducks in a lake , and there was no way to escape from this destruction , no place to hide.  

    Only reason ukraine it is still losing territory , is because they don't had very effective air defenses ,to counter russian kalibrs cruise missiles and iskanders strikes ,that have reduced significantly their long range offensive capabilities.

    so ukraine winning the war with drones , but russia winning the war with artillery and cruise missiles.
    the end result is the veryyyyyyyyyyy slowwwwwwwwww victories for russian army ,at the expense of losing a ton of soldiers.   it remains to be seen if russian "winning" is not another vietnam style victory like US had in the 70s , that they won most of the battles ,but lose in the end the war by attrition.

    to summary i can rate the russian army in ukraine as follows..

    1) russian land forces --> very average , neither terrible ,neither excelent , not using combined arms operations , sending convoys of tanks alone into ambush without recon . losing too many armor ,
    but still is strong enough to do the job at the expense of too many casualties.

    2) rusian missile forces -> very good , this is the only thing russian doing right.

    3) russian airforce and drones support -> a colossal failure ,this is where russia needs to significantly
    modernize , need to start mass producing those stealth planes , and needs a lot more strike drones and better tactics too..

    4) russian navy , --> colossal failure.. need to explain any more? defeated their best destroyed by a third world country like ukraine. sent alone apparently with no escorts.

    5) russian artillery -> good enough to do the job ,but not very efficient ,they need a lot more more precision striking capabilities than what they have shown in ukraine.

    Russian army do have potential ,they have some few good weapons , but this tactics they using in ukraine of artillery duels 24 hours a day are obsolete for 21 century warfare. Russia army would have lost already in ukraine ,if israel airforce was aiding ukraine army , those artillery wars will not be possible to do for russia ,if was being attacked heavily by smart missiles, loitering munition and glide bombs and very powerful airforce they have.


    Last edited by Vann7 on Wed Jun 08, 2022 2:18 am; edited 3 times in total
    SeigSoloyvov
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Wed Jun 08, 2022 1:41 am

    Reminder then Vann is talking out his ass and Ukie drones have been rendered useless, the TB-2s can hardly do anything now

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    Post  Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E Wed Jun 08, 2022 1:55 am

    Arkanghelsk wrote:
    Isos wrote:
    Arkanghelsk wrote:
    caveat emptor wrote:Bykov class with TOR in the back. Not sure if this is some ad hoc instalation or it's transporting TOR to Zmeini.
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #18 - Page 12 Img_2017

    This is what I asked about in the naval threads months ago

    This is not ad hoc, it was tested, and works great at AD

    16 missiles is great for Bykov

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #18 - Page 12 Ftddkf10

    But you can't use your helicopter. Which is bad for a patrol ship or any other military ship. Helicopters help a lot.

    Tor has small missiles. They could have integrated it ibto the ship since the begining.

    I would agree, but what is good about this project is that it can carry a towed array cable from the transom , so it can carry the ASW module in the hold

    And launch the cable through the transom of the ship

    But I agree the Tor module blocks the deck from being lifted to launch Kalibr, or to land helicopters

    Hopefully they fix this

    First of all, better than no air defense in this sea area. This war will change a lot. On the one hand, also that every small ship, like my favorites, the little rocket boats, are all equipped with TOR. This is an obvious knowledge of this special surgery.

    But...

    We now know that all fears before this war that NATO bilaterally simply upgrades the Nazis in Ukraine, even with the best weapons, even with far -reaching rockets, everything we suspected is now. Ukraine doesn't even have to go to NATO. In 2030 or 2035, the Nazis simply "started" a Syrian scenario "alone" and NATO would have said that we have nothing to do with it. What could Russia have back on? What could it have done if Moscow had been away in 3min? Attack NATO? Those who did nothing officially?

    No and again no to negotiations! No meter for this Ukraine. Otherwise, the NATO countries powder these Nazi terrorists like the "rebels" in Syria in 2012 after the ceasefire where Assad was about to express them and profit.

    No, the NATO would re -improve the one with the whole propaganda and its cult and education system so that, when Putin is gone, it would come again and then want to repeat the whole thing again and much worse.

    No, if you don't take Ukraine here up to the last meter, the victims of this operation will unfortunately have died for free. The enemy would be much worse and stronger. With all the weapons that he could never have had.

    No, not taking peace without any meter! None!

    PS: And Medvedev is a sock doll of the West. He would betray Russia and sell only to have beautiful photos in the White House.

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    GunshipDemocracy
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Wed Jun 08, 2022 1:56 am

    Arkanghelsk wrote:
    T62 will rape VSU

    Arestovich is  ready  lol1 lol1 lol1





    After Cassad's blog:


    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #18 - Page 12 Uelfa3



    "I don't understand why the West and Ukraine are worried? Russia and Donbass is an exclusively defense alliance. There is no reason to worry even if this alliance starts to expand."


    Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil


    Last edited by GunshipDemocracy on Wed Jun 08, 2022 2:30 am; edited 1 time in total

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    d_taddei2
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    Post  d_taddei2 Wed Jun 08, 2022 1:57 am

    With the world realising that Russian exports are highly important. And The EU now realising how dependent they are on oil and gas. And potash production another key export Russia and Belarus are 2nd and 3rd largest producers of potash in the world. Russia third largest producers of aluminum and third largest producers of titanium, and then theres the wheat Russia and Ukraine together account for nearly 30% of the global wheat trade, and when combined with the potash fertilizer issue, Russia's enemies crops may struggle without key fertilizer. So these are just to name a few,  However things are about to get worse.

    If Russia succeeds in securing Odessa,  Mykolaiv, Kherson, Zaporizhia, Dnipropetrovak, Kharkov, Kirrovohrad And Along with Donetsk and Lugansk. What this would mean for Ukraine and the rest of the world would be another few key exports for Russia or pro Russian areas to hold the world over.

    First point wheat - with Russia already being a wheat producing powerhouse adding these regions to the mix would increase that power, these regions produce around 50% of Ukraine's wheat production.

    Second point sunflower oil - Russia and Ukraine being worlds biggest exporter, the two countries export depending on the source between 63-75% of worlds sunflower oil. These regions mentioned above produce 80% of Ukrainian sunflower oil.

    Third point neon - Ukraine supplies about 70% of the world's neon gas and 40% of the global krypton supply. Moreover, Ukraine supplies 90% of the highly purified, semiconductor-grade neon for chip production used by U.S. industry. China, Japan, and South Africa are among the other major suppliers of neon. Odesa and Mariupol and areas of Ukraine that produce neon and krypton. Iceblick company with plants in Odessa and Moscow, supplies 65 per cent of the world's production of neon, as well as 15% of the krypton and xenon. With these two regions secured Russia would have a very vital export items that are important for chip production, grabbing the digital world by the bollocks.

    And of course this would mean Ukraine would be landlocked and would increase transport costs having to truck load items into Europe and off to another port with port duties and taxes driving up costs on any exports it has left to produce meaning majority of its exporting potential is largely lost, apart from some maize the rest of Ukraine wouldn't have anything meaningful to export in any decent quantities.

    Unfortunately for Ukraine it's biggest export now is Nazism and neo Nazis and refugees, and the world doesn't want any of them......... Well not willingly lol!


    Last edited by d_taddei2 on Thu Jun 09, 2022 1:20 am; edited 1 time in total

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    GunshipDemocracy
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Wed Jun 08, 2022 2:01 am

    Weather report: Zaporozhe -3


    Russian special forces liquidated a reconnaissance group of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in the Zaporozhye region

    video inside.


    https://ria.ru/20220607/likvidatsiya-1793796738.html



    JohninMK wrote:From ZH

    Russia's military has declared that its desired strategic "land bridge" connecting Russian national territory with the Donbas and Crimea is complete, according to statements given to CNN senior national security correspondent Alex Marquardt. The Tuesday Russian military statement said that "roads and rail lines between western Russia and Crimea are operational," which marks that "the land bridge is complete."

    "Conditions have been created for the resumption of full-fledged traffic between Russia, Donbas, Ukraine and Crimea on six railway sections," Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu said. "Automobile communication has been opened from the territory of Russia along the mainland to Crimea." Thus it appears the Kremlin is touting its own 'mission accomplished' moment, at least pertaining to the eastern and southern theaters of the war.

    not really, Odessa/Transnistria is Sothern front finish line

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    mnztr


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    Post  mnztr Wed Jun 08, 2022 4:01 am

    Mir wrote:
    mnztr wrote:With all the fortifications, why doesn't Russia use Napalm. Artillery is not that effective against the trenches. Just load up the SU-25s dump them. At least threaten it if they don't surrender.

    Who needs napalm when you have fuel-air explosives (thermobaric) Wink

    Sure, but even though I have seem some TOS footage is mostly artillery they are using
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    diabetus


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    Post  diabetus Wed Jun 08, 2022 4:51 am

    mnztr wrote:
    Mir wrote:
    mnztr wrote:With all the fortifications, why doesn't Russia use Napalm. Artillery is not that effective against the trenches. Just load up the SU-25s dump them. At least threaten it if they don't surrender.

    Who needs napalm when you have fuel-air explosives (thermobaric) Wink

    Sure, but even though I have seem some TOS footage is mostly artillery they are using

    They have thermobaric rounds for other weapons too
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    Post  ALAMO Wed Jun 08, 2022 7:15 am

    Arkanghelsk wrote:Yeah, maybe when they perfect Gibka, it would be a good solution , or pantsir if they could fit it on the Bow

    Or remove that stupid artillery gun, at this point noone on the forum can argue in favor of it
    Not even GarryB lol
    The Smo has shown that the obvious solutions are the better ones

    Wondered for a second how much fanboy you sound?
    This is a long endurance PATROL SHIP designed for this job.
    It is made to replace the much bigger and more expensive vessels for small intensity jobs like antipiracy, security of maritime passage etc.
    80 people on board is not a crew, but most of it is the marines or other personnel carried to perform given duties.
    A whole stern section is made as a landing pad, and a speedboat hangar under it, and a container storage area.
    The boat there can be undocked and docked while on the move, which requires an additional locking system.
    What more in details do you find possible to place there?
    It is small, low displacement, and there is no space for kids wishes to have everything there.
    And no, a 406mm naval gun turret won't fit there either, no matter how brilliant you find that idea.
    Making it capable to transport - and use - a container version of potent weapon systems like Kalibr and Uran is already a serious overkill, representing the Russian approach to having more of anything.
    I would have bet this Tor is there for transportation and that they have a full container load under the deck heading Snake Island.
    For its job, it is the main artillery mount that will make most of the tasks in real life.
    Grow up folks, really, because sometimes it is hard to distinguish is that you or your teenage kid stole your account.

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    Werewolf
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    Post  Werewolf Wed Jun 08, 2022 10:00 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    mnztr wrote:With all the fortifications, why doesn't Russia use Napalm. Artillery is not that effective against the trenches. Just load up the SU-25s dump them. At least threaten it if they don't surrender.

    Geneva says napalm is a no-no

    And thermobaric is a go-go!

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    Post  ALAMO Wed Jun 08, 2022 10:21 am

    Werewolf wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    mnztr wrote:With all the fortifications, why doesn't Russia use Napalm. Artillery is not that effective against the trenches. Just load up the SU-25s dump them. At least threaten it if they don't surrender.

    Geneva says napalm is a no-no

    And thermobaric is a go-go!


    The whole issue is regulated by Rule 85, Sec. B.
    It restricts the usage of weapons constructed deliberately for inflicting fire.
    And further explains the 1938 ILA convention, article 8 :

    Art. 8. The prohibition of the use of incendiary weapons shall apply to all projectiles specifically intended to cause fires except when used for defence against aircraft. The prohibition shall not apply:
    I. to projectiles specially constructed to give light or to be luminous;
    II. to pyrotechnics not normally likely to cause fires;
    III. to projectiles of all kinds which, though capable of producing incendiary effects accidentally, are not normally likely to produce such effects;
    IV. to incendiary projectiles designed specifically for defence against aircraft when used exclusively for that purpose;
    V. to appliances, such as flame-projectors, used to attack individual combatants by fire.


    So as you see, this restriction is rather cosmetic, and that is clearly visible in detailed field manuals of different armies.
    All of them allow the usage of incendiary weapons, under some circumstances. Ie. Israel, the only limit is using it only not using it against civilian population. Deliberately Twisted Evil

    As FAE is not designed deliberately for incendiary purposes, and that is only a secondary effect - and not massive - the weapon type is not affected by those regulations in any way.

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    Post  Werewolf Wed Jun 08, 2022 10:34 am

    ALAMO wrote:
    The whole issue is regulated by Rule 85, Sec. B.
    It restricts the usage of weapons constructed deliberately for inflicting fire.
    And further explains the 1938 ILA convention, article 8 :

    Art. 8. The prohibition of the use of incendiary weapons shall apply to all projectiles specifically intended to cause fires except when used for defence against aircraft. The prohibition shall not apply:
    I. to projectiles specially constructed to give light or to be luminous;
    II. to pyrotechnics not normally likely to cause fires;
    III. to projectiles of all kinds which, though capable of producing incendiary effects accidentally, are not normally likely to produce such effects;
    IV. to incendiary projectiles designed specifically for defence against aircraft when used exclusively for that purpose;
    V. to appliances, such as flame-projectors, used to attack individual combatants by fire.


    So as you see, this restriction is rather cosmetic, and that is clearly visible in detailed field manuals of different armies.
    All of them allow the usage of incendiary weapons, under some circumstances. Ie. Israel, the only limit is using it only not using it against civilian population. Deliberately Twisted Evil

    As FAE is not designed deliberately for incendiary purposes, and that is only a secondary effect - and not massive - the weapon type is not affected by those regulations in any way.

    I am well aware of that, but the rules are bend always how they are needed for the West. In Germanistan, it is forbidden because Russia is using it and also told everyone that Russia is using Cluster ammunition on civilians, while citing Russia bombed Krematorsk and Donetzk. Yeah, we are the bad side and Göbbels would be jealous how the most blatant propaganda and lies work today in the time where everyone can access information if he wants.

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    Post  Hinex1988 Wed Jun 08, 2022 10:39 am

    ⚡Briefing by Russian Defence Ministry

    ▫The Ukrainian grouping in Donbass is suffering significant losses in manpower, weapons and military equipment.

    ▫During the liberation of Svyatogorsk in Donetsk People's Republic in three days of fighting alone, Ukrainian troops suffered losses of over 300 nationalists, six tanks, 15 armoured combat vehicles of various types, 36 field artillery guns and mortars, 4 Grad multiple rocket launchers and over 20 automotive equipment.

    ▫The Armed Forces of the Russian Federation continue the special military operation in Ukraine.

    💥High-precision air-based missiles have hit armoured plant near Kharkov, which have been repairing and restoring tanks and other AFU armoured vehicles.

    ▫In addition, high-precision air-based missiles have hit 2 command posts, 13 areas of AFU manpower and military equipment concentration, as well as 1 battery of Uragan multiple-launch rocket systems near Kharkov. 4 weapon and ammunition depots have been destroyed near Malinovka in Kharkov Region, Spornoe in Donetsk People's Republic and Zvanovka in Lugansk People's Republic. 1 fuel depot for AFU equipment has been destroyed near Chuhuev, Kharkov Region.

    ✈💥Operational-tactical aviation have hit 63 areas of AFU manpower and military equipment concentration.

    ▫The attacks have resulted in the elimination of command post of 14th AFU Mechanized Brigade, over 160 nationalists, 8 tanks, 2 Grad multiple rocket launchers, 1 artillery battery, 1 electronic warfare station and 13 vehicles of various purposes.

    💥Russian air defence means have shot down 2 MiG-29 aircraft of the Ukrainian Air Force near Snegirevka, Nikolaev Region, as well as 1 Mi-8 helicopter near Belaya Krinitsya, Nikolaev Region.

    ▫In addition, 11 Ukrainian unmanned aerial vehicles have been shot down near Donetsk, Rubtsy, Lozovoe, Krasnorechenskoe, Koroviy Yar, Peski Rad'kovskoe in Donetsk Peolple's Republic, Izyum, Dergachi in Kharkov Region and Chernobaivka in Kherson Region. 3 Tochka-U missiles and 5 Smerch rockets have been intercepted near Chernobaevka, Kherson Region.

    💥Missile and artillery have hit 68 command posts, 172 AFU artillery positions, including 2 batteries of Smerch multiple-launch rocket systems near Aleksandrovka and Kutuzovka, 1 battery of Uragan MLRS near Kitsevka, Kharkov region, as well as 261 areas of AFU manpower and military equipment concentration.

    ▫The attacks have resulted in the elimination of more than 320 nationalists, 4 ammunition depots near Novolenovka in Zaporozhye Region, 9 armoured vehicles, 3 Grad multiple rocket launchers, 15 field artillery and mortars, 14 special vehicles, and Buk-M1 surface-to-air missile launchers near Shelkoplyasy and OSA-AKM in Verhnyaya Roganka in Kharkov Region.

    📊In total, 192 Ukrainian airplanes and 130 helicopters, 1,150 unmanned aerial vehicles, 335 anti-aircraft missile systems, 3,459 tanks and other armored combat vehicles, 489 multiple launch rocket systems, 1,822 field artillery and mortars, as well as 3,488 units of special military vehicles were destroyed during the operation.

    #MoD #Russia #Ukraine #Briefing
    @mod_russia_en

    https://t.me/mod_russia_en/2091

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    Post  Werewolf Wed Jun 08, 2022 10:58 am

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:Reminder then Vann is talking out his ass and Ukie drones have been rendered useless, the TB-2s can hardly do anything now

    I have a suspicion, that Vann actually is not active here but on some other forum. He only throws out some claims on this forum and barely if at all tries to have a conversation with members on this forum. He gets his stuff from other place, probably more like minded like him and throws that stuff on us.

    I have resisted for years to put him on ignore list, despite so many here told to do so...I was wrong and it is certainly a better experience without having to waste my time and energy on scrolling past his ridiculous long ass posts.

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    Post  nomadski Wed Jun 08, 2022 11:12 am

    Some comments :

    ( 1 )  Good idea for Russia to sell Ukraine wheat and buy for them any civilian goods they need .

    ( 2 )  Good to see Sweden Artillery gift for UA , being taken out by fragmentation Rocket guided by drone .

    ( 3 )  Disabling temporarily the soldier's  ability to wage war , targeting weapons ,  instead of causing long term injury or death  , beyond scope of war , should be the aim .

    ( 4 )   Blockade of Serbia is act of war . They can ask Russia to break blockade .

    ( 5 ) A ceasefire after liberation of LDPR , and offering to hold referendum to Ukraine population on their fate , ( will be rejected by Ukronazi gang ) politically important .

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    Post  Hole Wed Jun 08, 2022 11:39 am

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #18 - Page 12 Futm_t10
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #18 - Page 12 Futsmt10
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #18 - Page 12 Futzxk10

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    Post  Hole Wed Jun 08, 2022 11:40 am

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #18 - Page 12 Fut8ig10
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #18 - Page 12 Futl7f10
    Some river was crossed in that area.
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #18 - Page 12 Futz3_10

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    Post  flamming_python Wed Jun 08, 2022 12:19 pm

    Isos wrote:
    Arkanghelsk wrote:
    caveat emptor wrote:Bykov class with TOR in the back. Not sure if this is some ad hoc instalation or it's transporting TOR to Zmeini.
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #18 - Page 12 Img_2017

    This is what I asked about in the naval threads months ago

    This is not ad hoc, it was tested, and works great at AD

    16 missiles is great for Bykov

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #18 - Page 12 Ftddkf10

    But you can't use your helicopter. Which is bad for a patrol ship or any other military ship. Helicopters help a lot.

    Tor has small missiles. They could have integrated it ibto the ship since the begining.

    It's a Bykov, it's a multirole modular ship. The helicopter pad can also be loaded with Kalibr containers if that's what you need a Bykov for.

    It needs helicopters for ASW or patrol duties. However if its on anti-aircraft duty or itself with cargo in the hold, then what it needs is a Tor on deck

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    Post  franco Wed Jun 08, 2022 12:34 pm

    Russian journalist Alexander Kots, a war reporter with over 20 years of experience in Kosovo, Afghanistan, Chechnya, Libya, Syria, Egypt, Iraq, Donbass & Karabakh, streamed a Q&A session about the war yesterday; here's a thread with a summary of what he said:

    - The Ukrainians have excellent artillery training & equipment

    - The AFU emphasize small unit tactics; this slowed down the Russian advance in the beginning of the war

    - The Russian offensive routes largely matched with those the Ukrainians trained for in NATO exercises

    - The border regions were full of photo traps & other surveillance equipment that gave the Ukrainians a good idea of what was happening militarily

    - Even a full liberation of the DPR & LPR won't secure Donetsk from Ukrainian shelling bc of long-range weapon systems

    - The seemingly senseless shelling of Donetsk is explained by Ukrainian attempts to cause discontent among civilians in the sense that the Russian Armed Forces cannot protect them

    - The capture of Lisichansk will mark the full liberation of the LPR

    - "Small cauldron" tactics & the slow advances are deliberate, but not the tactics of choice; Russians are advancing at best with a 1:1 ratio and often against a numerically superior enemy

    - Prisoner exchanges are still taking place, but not mass exchanges, 15 for 15, 30 for 30

    - The Ukrainian army generally refuses to pick up their dead despite being offered ceasefires to do so

    - The average level of experience in the AFU has dropped significantly since the start of the war, it's now 20% professionals and 80% conscripts

    - Ukrainian infantry is of very low quality in terms of training & morale; their artillery & special forces are decent

    - The Ukrainians generally don't accept close quarter combat and retreat instead, but they usually do so in an organized manner

    - The volunteers from all over Russia who are trained in Gudermes (Chechnya) are doing quite well in the war

    - This scale of combat is seen for the first time since WW2; Kots has never worked in a conflict of this intensity

    - Russia is not at war with Ukraine, but with the entire NATO infrastructure: intelligence, satellites, communications, military equipment, counter-battery systems, electronic warfare systems

    - "Bayraktars" are absolute crap, they're fish in a barrel for any decent anti-air

    - The Ukrainians are having problems with some munitions, e.g. their Smerch & Uragan MLRS systems rarely fire in volleys nowadays, mostly single shots

    - Ukrainian artillery is often the only thing slowing down Russian advances

    - Securing Donbass won't automatically win the war

    https://twitter.com/RWApodcast

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    Post  GarryB Wed Jun 08, 2022 1:11 pm

    With all the fortifications, why doesn't Russia use Napalm. Artillery is not that effective against the trenches. Just load up the SU-25s dump them. At least threaten it if they don't surrender.

    Because they don't give a shit about the western timetable to wrap this war up quick so they can move on to the next topic.

    Also surrenders count more against morale than a good barbeque... and the Orcs are generally fighting in populated areas they did not allow locals to leave from... they are still in the east and south of the country relatively speaking where the opinions of the locals aren't nearly anti Russan enough for Kievs liking so as far as they are conserned the locals there are expendible.

    The Kremlin has chosen a PR campaign of schizophrenia with various public figures each demonstrating some facet of Moscow's thinking, or virtue or temperament or whatever
    Kadyrov is the assertive type, Medinsky was the dove albeit that didn't work out, Putin is the level-headed arbiter taking a middle position between everyone. Medvedev is the indignation and honest outrage.

    Really... this is the Kremlins fault again?

    I mean I understand all of the west being in perfect step under the same instructions coming from the same place... Washington... but even in the EU and HATO there are dissenting voices and contradictions... is that HATO and EU policy too?

    Different people are different... it would be disturbing if all Russian officials all had exactly the same view of the situation and the same solutions to the problems and same reaction to the various escalations from the west... that would make Putins job easier because he would then not have to think at all and just take this perfect unified view of the situation for his decisions moving forward.

    But like any country or group of people even if you have the same thoughts and beliefs, your views of what is happening and what they best reactions and solutions are can be quite different... you might have even noticed that here... some views even change over time... with more information and with a bit of perspective and less anger in your head...

    And the emotionally charged language in Medvedev's quotes as of late add to it all that extra spice

    It is an indication that many Russians have lost patience with the west and the idea of cooperation and friendship is gone so trying to meet the west half way is no longer a concern or even an interest.

    It also lets those who have been demanding or hoping that Putin gets replaced all these years start to realise that he is not the worst choice where the west is concerned... in fact he was probably the best chance the west had... there are plenty of others that might appear sugar coated but once they had power at their command could turn into Stalins easily enough...

    But you can't use your helicopter. Which is bad for a patrol ship or any other military ship. Helicopters help a lot.

    It is not operating far from base... land based helicopters could be used if they are so critical. Close in air defence against drones and missiles would be rather more valuable IMHO.

    This is a test setup. The final system will likely separate the sensors from the missiles so they can have deck mounted missile banks and place the sensors somewhere else...

    Tor has small missiles. They could have integrated it ibto the ship since the begining.

    It does but they weren't because the standard sensor mounts are huge....

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #18 - Page 12 20090710

    The Kuznetsov has four sensor arrays for Klintok... one in each corner of the island above...

    Look at the picture you could put the VLS just on the small area on the sides of the helicopter deck. It's a tiny VLS. There is also space on the front.

    Pretty dumb they didn't designed it with Tor from the begining.

    That is a test mount to see if it can be bolted to the ship deck and used.

    The actual new system will have small fixed vertical launch tubes bolted to the deck in large containers and presumably have a search and tracking system mounted somewhere... perhaps off to one side or on top of the super structure so helicopters can still operate.

    This new system is designed to be added on to existing ships so it could be added to the upgraded Udaloys etc etc.

    Or remove that stupid artillery gun, at this point noone on the forum can argue in favor of it

    Not even GarryB lol

    This conflict has shown that gun directed fire is as effective as ever and a naval gun with a 180km range as projected for new 152mm rounds would be vastly more useful again.

    For a patrol class ship it offers the chance to engage enemy ships without obliterating them and without costing millions of dollars..

    Against small fast boat targets they are ideal.

    I'm glad you've recovered and you don't doubt it anymore.
    Submarines, just as many submarines as possible.

    Submarines have been not much use in this conflict..... they are only effective when sinking things... which in the past was fine for the Soviet Union because it sent very little by sea. Russias future will be global and will be sent and received by sea so shipping will be critical to its future growth, so Russia sinking ships with subs creates the situation where the west can sink Russian ships and suffocate her growth and development.

    First of all, better than no air defense in this sea area. This war will change a lot. On the one hand, also that every small ship, like my favorites, the little rocket boats, are all equipped with TOR. This is an obvious knowledge of this special surgery.

    The photos of these tests are clear evidence that they want to mount TOR missiles on their smaller boats.

    As I have mentioned the Naval TOR (Klintok) has traditionally been used on big heavy ships as a defence against anything small that could sneak through the defences of the bigger missiles they carry... it could swat down drones and missiles and bombs and all sorts of threats, but was designed for an used on big ships only.

    This helicopter deck mount is an ability to test its systems and stability on a small boat underway at sea... they have simply taken the land based version and tied it down on the standard tie down positions on the helicopter landing pad.

    They are working on a system that has fixed launch tubes and also a module with the search and tracking radars attached (with more missiles).

    Presumably the idea is to mount the sensor module on ships and then put launcher mounts in different free places on the deck... bolted down and wired in.

    For all we know they might be integrating the search radar and the tracking radar into the AESA radars of these small ships so perhaps all they actually need is the missile mounts on deck with no under deck reloading system like the Pantsir needs.

    What might be even better is if they unify the missile tubes to allow a combination of the new TOR missiles with the newest reduced size anti drone missile versions and also the 9M100 missiles too... the latter could use initial command guidance to launch and head towards an incoming target where their ARH or IIR seeker could get a lock after launch to engage various targets...

    Unfortunately for Ukraine it's biggest now is Nazism and neo Nazis and refugees, and the world doesn't want any of them......... Well not willingly

    Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Russia wants them...

    The whole issue is regulated by Rule 85, Sec. B.
    It restricts the usage of weapons constructed deliberately for inflicting fire.
    And further explains the 1938 ILA convention, article 8 :

    Only the losers of conflcts have to worry about the rules of war.

    The US 5.56mm rifle round was designed to fragment to make it more lethal... nobody cared... a few people claimed the Soviet 5.45mm rounds did the same but were proven wrong.

    Currently US snipers prefer hollow point ammo which US lawyers have declared legal because they have hollow tips for aerodynamic reasons they say... Rolling Eyes

    II. to pyrotechnics not normally likely to cause fires;

    Which means it does not apply to thermobaric rounds which don't cause fires... they detonate and consume oxygen but don't cause fires.

    The RPO family of engineer rockets includes three versions... a version that generates smoke (RPO-D), a version that starts fires (RPO-Z) and a thermobaric version RPO-A. The rocket for setting up a smoke screen is especially effective in enclosed buildings and bunkers, but can also be used to create smoke screens in the open. The RPO-Z is the incendiary rocket that starts fires...

    - The Ukrainians are having problems with some munitions, e.g. their Smerch & Uragan MLRS systems rarely fire in volleys nowadays, mostly single shots

    Obvious with the rate at which they are shot down...

    - Securing Donbass won't automatically win the war

    Was never intended to... that was a goal, but not the only goal... secure Donbass and other regions no longer wanting Kievs reign, demilitarise and denazify the rest of the territory....

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    Post  ALAMO Wed Jun 08, 2022 2:11 pm

    franco wrote:[
    - The Ukrainians are having problems with some munitions, e.g. their Smerch & Uragan MLRS systems rarely fire in volleys nowadays, mostly single shots

    That is a logical consequence of several targeted strikes before the war.
    Some "accidental" weapon depot fires in Ukraine were unleashed where the heavy-caliber artillery was stored. That is Tochka, Uragan and Smerch. And there was nowhere to replace those from.
    Another thing is, that it answers the statements of the Russian military, how they have intercepted 2 Smerch rockets or 3 Uragan ones. It is not that they have missed the remaining salvo - there were no more missiles to down.

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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Wed Jun 08, 2022 2:36 pm

    After Cassad
    https://colonelcassad.livejournal.com/7664038.html

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #18 - Page 12 ZtvQja7COHjitm0fAFnl71H-LMKRLFSmlEXIHJmC9_zoo6G9L1TM883nzTwt-rKonFqR0HNkFR5_ggoMxEhjFCM1



    Cats text from left up till right down

    1 they are scumbags, they want death for us, Russia.

    2. As long as I'm alive I'm going to do everything to obliterate them

    3. The White one: and survivals , finish off?

    4. And survivalls finish off

    For non Russian speakers: the first pics are Medvedev quotes 😁


    Last edited by GunshipDemocracy on Wed Jun 08, 2022 11:05 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Post  Arkanghelsk Wed Jun 08, 2022 3:28 pm

    @Garryb

    the idea of placing an artillery mount over air defense will get you fired from MOD today

    In fact coastal shelling was not used enough to justify the loss of AD module on a patrol ship which operates in the zone of an enemy which is bristling with AsHm and Drones

    The Shmel class artillery ship from caspian sea is doing such duties as you describe, but to waste a hull with good PowerPlant to supplant the army is a waste, and my best is that the next reform will mean giving more independence to both the VKS and the VMF away from just being artillery support for the army

    You can equip any small ship with a gun mount, and create strictly a class that is for patrol/coastal shelling which is smaller than 500 tons

    But for a 1000 ton patrol ship, you don't need such a thing,

    At best some 30mm guns, but if 22160 will be performing coastal duties, it would be better to have an air defense attached, and cruise missiles,

    But because the general staff and the district commanders are army oriented- for economic reasons , because that strategy is orders of magnitude cheaper then to give the air force and navy what they NEED

    Yeah Navy will be obtaining helicopter carriers soon, but if there is another SMO in the next decade before new ships come online

    Then it's obvious that this equipment is more necessary then some artillery patrol ship which cannot secure even a small island or provide escort duties for the flagship of the fleet

    The loss of Moskva was good for many things-

    It will silence all those voices which continue to echo these army commanders, which authorize ships with a 76mm gun , without air defense or missiles

    This loss was a necessary one, to give the VMF the place it needs

    If Kremlin doesn't wish to end up with such an egg on its face, it will open the coffers for greater VMF investment, and begin to listen to admirals rather then infantry and mechanized officers about the needs of the fleet

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