Off Topic stuff from Ukraine Police action thread

Dr.Snufflebug wrote:Out of nowhere, stuff is starting to support Russias claims of TB-2s shot down over the Black Sea, eg in Ukraines unsuccessful Snake "operation".

Bayraktar wrecks have started washing up on the Black Sea shores of Romania.

you need to stop this blind fanboyism against NATO drones , manufactured in turkey under licenses.
This Baykatar drones are extremely effective weapons of war , that have cause the killing between direct kills ,and indirect kills of thousands of russians forces and destruction of many hundreds of light and medium armor.  including tanks ,s-300s , iskander launchers , as it happened in armenia , total destruction of tors , with its russian officers crew inside , pantsirs , buks , almost every air defense of russia have been destroyed by nato and israeli drones.  in the past 2 years alone.  


And the most humiliating this is that the drones fully document the destruction of russian soldiers , they even show they running in panic and being burned alive. so stop with the stupid propaganda that
russia is all strong and nato weapons does not work..   it is precisely ukraine drones , the reason why
russia have been kicked from kiev surroundings and kicked weeks ago from kharkiv city..  

so any weapons that force a major military power like russia is ,to abandon 2 major cities and that halt their advance significantly , to the point of everyone commenting their war stalled, cannot be called useless as you and others blind fanboys suggesting.  

some facts for you...  

1)The reality is , that if a 1 million dollar drone ,can be effective in helping an antiship missile to sink
and destroyer ,like russia lost and was sinked in the botton of the sea with soldiers killed,that cost near a billion of dollars to build , is not an "irrelevant weapon" as you try it to make it look.
2) those baykatars are the most efficient weapon , more versatile , more dangerous , in the entire conflict , even more dangerous than russia cruise missiles..  because baykatar have proven that can
penetrate the air defenses of the most defended nation in the planet which is russia.. they were used to bomb russia fuel depots.. deep inside russian terroritory . fact. and they did it several times.. not just one lucky day.
3)the reality is that those baykatars ,you downplay is guiding ukraine artillery to smash russian soldiers in the ground ,losing hundreds of soldiers every day ,to baykatar + artillery combined operations.

what very dumb fanboys like you don't understand, is that if russia airforce don't intercept any strike drone fast enough , and they allowed to guide artillery or use their missiles first.. then even if they are intercepted , they can cause catastrophic damage to russia , in their convoys or armor , because they are very cheap , for the punching power they have ,just a million dollar , they will not miss versus fast and mobile targets ,contrary to your russian cruise missiles ,that can't do that , and those drones can fire 4 missile strikes , and return back to the base. something that russia cruise missile can't do , neither those cruise missiles of putin are a match in the precision strikes , they have..  
those cruise missiles are useless against soldiers in trenches.. why not used , while relative cheap baykatar drones ,can be used to strike with efficiency soldiers hiding in a very tight well made trench , something that your kalibers , or your russian artillery can't do.. for the angle of attack and precision is not good enough for the job.

Russia super slow speed in ukraine, and retreat from 2 cities ,was directly consequence of ukraine effective use of drones like baykatar   ,that can fly high  than the altitude of russian manpads ,that can ambush in the hands of experienced user air defenses.. ,and can even destroy russia most powerful destroyers , when they used in combination with other hardware and weapons attacks.

It doesn't not matter how many  baykatars ukraine lost ,if they are allowed to fly and strike first russian army directly or by guiding artillery ,to destroy a convoy or a warship or a fuel depot in a city ,deep inside russia , then the drones have done their job. Because those drones are very cheap , in comparison to a combat plane , or a warship .  i rather pick a dozen of baykatar drones ,used in the hands of experts ,than a totally useless destroyer that was not doing anything in the war, and was a total waste money ,and send to the button of the sea.

in combat efficiency and intelligence and as a multiplier of force , two dozen of baykatar drones that cost 12 million dollar, in the right hands can be much more dangerous ,that a totally useless soviet era destroyer that was not doing any contribution in the conflict at all , other than embarrass russia , for the lost of it.

is important to remember.. most successful attacks of ukraine , against russian convoys and warships ,all of them have been done with the help of drones , like baykatar.. so stop the bullshit the fanatic propaganda.. those drones are extremely efficient weapons of war, because they are remote controlled mini cruise missiles , that can be reused endlessly ,on any targets , including mobile ones
and can return to their base and be rearmed again ,to continue helping destroy russian military.
if those drones don't work , then why russia lost in armenia? why nato continue sending them to ukraine? because of their massive potential.. baykatars are combat planes ,that are super silent and difficult to spot , when used correctly and the proof of this is the many dozens of videos they have of russian forces being smashed by ukraine artillery with a drone filming it from above.
so effective weapons they are , that russian soldiers are always caught by surprise , when those drones strike at them.

^ there's nothing proprietary about Turkish drones. Russia has its own versions and could copy the design if they're so great. Maybe they should just for the troll factor.

They just happen to be the cornerstone of Turkeys arms industry so they get hyped.

lets look at how ukraine is using their drones in combination with artillery ,to destroy russian armor..  this is not armenian conflict , neither armenian soldiers fighting.. is russians army being destroyed
from above in ukraine with the help of those supposedly "useless drones" that ukraine have.  

the russian military not even pay attention to their surroundings , they simply relax , not knowing
the skies of ukraine are infested with drones . this is precision strikes on russian armor..





Russia massive losses of their military most of it is consequences of inadequate and inefficient tactics fighting ukraine their failure in achieving air domination over cities right at russian borders...   if this is the way russian army plans to fight nato , will not like to see how much worse it will be , had russia was fighting nato and israel airforce
invading ukraine airspace. russia super duper s-400s with its 150km world records interceptions are totally useless against nato drones. is not protecting their military , neither those pantsirs or tors shielding their army. and where is that super duper electronic warfare of russia?   totally useless .  if there is something russia military  should learn about this conflict ,is that their enemies can continue bombing with impunity their positions ,as long russia fails to achieve complete air domination of the ukraine airspace.. and block or shot down every drone quickly ,not allow them to fly at all using electronic warfare or at least have all airspace above russian military covered by dozens of different kind of drones , inclusive  drones that fight other drones.

all this military exercises of russia , have teach next nothing t he russian military in how to properly defend them. all the russian military is doing ,is scorch earth tactics with 24 hour artillery strikes over cities..with very little precision trying to win the war with artillery and crise missiles alone , and very little of combined arm forces  working together to increase the pressure on russian military




this other video.. a drone catch russian military crossing a bridge and the rest is history..
all major russian websites experts recognize this was their forces armor destroyed..
this failures in protecting their convoys is becoming a normal thing.. a dozen of tanks destroyed
over there , and over there ,and more over there ..   How is the russian military planning to hold
territory they capture ,if later ukraine  smash russian armor?   is kind of ridiculous how russian military fight , you never send an army into a zone they can't dominate the airspace , Russia don't control the airspace of ukraine , is the sad reality , and their entire operations could be at risk , if nato increase the attacks and the range from drones and artillery on russian army positions. it will not surprise me if russian military forced to retreat from kherzon and from donbass.. in next months , unless russia radically change their tactics and provide proper air cover to their ground troops and armor.

PhSt wrote:

That video link is from 6 days ago and TASS post is from today.. It is possible that everything is interconnected and maybe not.[/quote]

Target wasn't hit. I don't care if Russia has to steal technology from their adversaries but they have to improve the accuracy of their weapon systems. [/quote]

yep.. only 1 guy appear to be wounded to the right by a fragment, while 99% soldiers could run away , and is embarrassing that the defense minister shoigu released this video , that fat super incompetent general needs to go , he is the one responsible for the mediocre tactics and inadequate armament of russian military ,   The need to decommission of those floating coffins warships ,from the soviet era ,
since they have no chance to win nato with their navy ,  and with the money saved in payroll and maintainance invest it in modernization of their airforce , transform russian army into a true modern drone super power , with all kinds of drones , ideally russia should have a couple of multipurpose drones ,that can strike ground or hit other drones ,or spot  hiding soldiers and guide artillery in the dozens per each convoy unit ,  and manned combat planes used only when they know the target ,to hit , provided to them by the drones , for hit an run tactics.

what russia need for defense of their military is to build not only a strong drone force that rival nato , using a lot of cheap and efficient drones , including drone that hunt other drones in the thousands..
but also russia need airdefenses , specially designed for operating in zones with swarm of NATO drones..

Russia needs custom military hardware specifically designed for the wars territory and enemies
they will be fighting. in this case ukraine, a country with obsolete soviet era combat planes , that no major air defense need again them, very weak manned airforce but with endless supply of potentially very dangerous drones ,that they receive from nato in very big numbers .  

something like 9K35 Strela-10



but each  each strela need to be significantly enhanced to deal with heavily infested airspace by nato drones , armed for example with 24 x verba like manpads , with  twice extended range up to  10km if not 12km range. So that they  can intercept drones flying at 10km altitude. regardless of international treaties they have with the west.  no longer russia have to follow any western rules of military hardware . and every dozen of armored vehicles or tanks ,anywhere in ukraine ,being escorted by at least 6 of them.  and this strela configured to be used by control remote , so if they destroyed no soldier lives lost.  so if there are 6 strela defenses , that means 24x6 manpads ,that can take down 144 drones..


each strela unit should be done in the cheapest way possible , with enough armor only to deal with light arms.. it could use wheels , to reduce the cost and fuel consumption .  Russia military needs to think in efficiency terms.. this pantsirs they use are too expensive and  required profesional operators to use them , they used only for high altitude planes and leave the fight against drones , to customized versions of strela defenses ,armed with a couple of dozen of advanced manpads good
enough to  take a couple of dozen of low flying planes or most drones that ukraine could be provided
by the west.


this is how you dissuade NATO from ever giving more drones to ukraine ,by russia showing total domination of ukraine airspace , but what russia is doing in ukraine is totally the opposite . is showing major weakness versus drones strikes of ukraine and this is what encourage the west
to send a lot more drones , because they perceive the weakness of russian military and take advantage of it.

Vann7 wrote:lets look at how ukraine is using their drones in combination with artillery ,to destroy russian armor..  this is hs , unless russia radically change their tactics and provide proper air cover to their ground troops and armor.

The Sun ! Delete your account

ALAMO wrote:

Hole wrote:
Those biolabs must be really lucrative.

Not necessary.
Those are just owned by the right people, in opposite to small businesses.

caveat emptor wrote:

 Western countries are also actively involved in restoring the combat capabilities of the Ukrainian Air Force, providing logistics and paying for all the work.

Western countries are unable to restore the combat capabilities, as they all combined don't have the numbers Ukro had at the beginning of the conflict.
What they are even talking about?
Seems that people don't get the message behind the story.
Ukros can make kamikaze attacks because they have few planes left.
Those remaining pieces can be displaced along with the territory of the biggest European country, which had a Soviet heritage of hundreds of airfields. And the planes we are hearing about, can start and land from a flat field if needed.
That is a number that doesn't require a serious campaign, as that would be a waste of assets.
Planes are just shot down on a daily manner, and nobody really gives a shit about that at a level higher than Pancyr&Tor battalion command.

Just the same story is behind the restoring Ukro surface to air potential.
No country in Europe has anything to share left, other than junk.
The sole system that can be in theory shared by the biggest exWarPac member would be the Polish Newa-SC system, which is nothing more than S-125 placed on tracked chassis of T-55, and pimped up with some 30+ y/o electronic. Poland has a few 2K12 Kub left, and several Osa units.
That is a generation behind the stuff Ukros had, and the numbers that can be combined from all the exWarPac members would be about a factor of the number Ukros used to have.  
The only successful attacks made by the Ukrs were performed with the help of Buk because this piece is highly mobile, can operate hidden, using an optical tracker, and does not require an early warning station to be used at all.
Sending MIM-104?
Good luck! You need 2 years of military college to train anti-aircraft specialists, and what you will get is a system inferior to Buk you already had, and Russkies were neither impressed nor scared.
On paper, Ukraine had an echeloned coverage system with S-300, Buk-M1, Tor, and Tunguska systems, supplemented by the waste number of Osa, some locally applied S-125 batteries, and an unaccountable number of MANPADS.
In reality, both Tor and Tunguska were hardly operational, due to pare parts embargo I believe. This is what all of them were used for a staged propaganda material, posing the Russian equipment.
THey were left with S-300, Buk, and Osa - which is still a formidable air defense better than any other European country, other than Russia or Belarus.
Oh yes, please make more wanking on Twitter, how a supply of a few 40 y/o junk systems 75% of which won't even reach the area will solve the situation.
Wunderwaffe stories are so close to nazi hearts!

I heard there will be NASAMs deliveries to Ukraine. Probably Aster 15 and Aster 30s too.

The videos released by pro russian sources of two su-25's confirm exactly one by one
my warnings.. they are  fighting from stand off positions ,with unguided far from precise rockets
,and not like ukraine is doing with their drones with precision strikes on the russian targets..  

recent ukraine strike video on russian targets.


so ukraine air to ground precision strikes is way better than the russian one , in quality and quantity.
unfortunately however is not good enough ukros attacks to turn the tide , however over long term ,
all this attacks of ukraine will make it very very expensive in human casualties , for russia , because ukraine is received man power aid , from the entire west , while russia is only using russian citizens to fight . it means  that russia will need to do something to increase the security of their airspace..


all this russian su-25s operations ,what it shows is that russian airforce [u] do not control ,neither have air superiority at all [/b] over ukraine airspace, is contested ,with ukraine having the upper hand  with precision air to ground strikes, while russia having only the upper hand in cruise missiles ,
relative precision strikes.. eventually overtime those kalibers missiles don't grow in trees , and russia will be forced to use less and less.. while ukraine will have the entire nato industries providing them with endless weapons..

that said.. russia can't play a long war in ukraine an expect a victory if don't achieve air superiority or even air domination over ukraine airspace first. , when they can't outmatch nato in production of weapons or manpower.

here is russian airforce.. bombing from standoff positions , with unguided rockets..  

https://antimaydan.info/2022/05/souznye_vojska_nastupaut_na_liman_v_dnr_zahvatyvaya_odnu_za_drugoj_pozici.html

this is showing major weakness of russian airforce over ukriane airspace , notice how fast those su-25 are flying.. how are they suppose to hit anything ?  close air support is officially death in the russian airforce ,they don't have any , in zones ukros control.  while ukraine can continue every day
sendingvideos of their drones smashing russian artillery and tanks and fuel depots ,with precision and documenting everything in video , formaximum demoralization of russian army.

i don't understand why the russian military don't provide manpads to every unit to their soldiers to keep those ukro drones  down.. and never in the air not even for a minute.  

in general terms , most times the battles between russia and ukraine can be summarized in ukraine using accurate drone strikes and artillery strikes deep inside russian positions , and russia responding with waves of unguided artillery  and very expensive ,with regular precision with a limited number of cruise missiles .  Who will win?   if russia ruble was doing pretty bad , and no one in the west buying russian energy ,then russia will had been already seeking for ways to retreat and give up.  

russia needs to keep striking those fuel depots non stop and power grid lines ,and completely hit the supply lines of ukraine , so they don't eat and can't rearm.. and need to stop ukraine drones one way or the other. it can't continue allowing them to fly above their soldiers positions.  if russia continue showing weakness in ukraine , what is going to do is encourage nato to participate more directly in the fight ,and use their own airforce to strike at russian army then run away to poland and romania ,
and make things far worse. my prediction is ukraine will start using cruise missiles too on russian positions and very long artillery strikes ,that will have a significant damage to the morale of russian soldiers and multiply their losses dramatically.

Russia airforce is the weakest link in the russian army , is significantly behind the level of performance and efficiency they need to be.  you can't expect any efficiency at all , by firing unguided rockets from far distances  at ukro positions  Russia needs to change its tactics ,
significantly stronger drone use and give manpads to every unit of soldier..  there should be also an
strela 10 air defenses watching the skies 24 hours in combination with every dozens of armor positions ,to protect their command centers , fuel depots and armor.


by the way , i don't believe in ukraine propaganda that russian army have 27,000 soldiers killed , instead is more like near half of that . but if russia continue fighting the way they doing , without combined arms support, without air superiority over ukraine airspace or even air domination , eventually over time in six months fighting,they could get there , because nato support will only continue to increase and become better and better fighting russia with more drones and missiles ,
then more combat planes , even if no ukrainian army is left standing ,the war can continue ,with the endless waves of mercenaries that nato can send to fight in ukraine ,and russia military more demoralized ,the more the war continue and thosedrones allowed to keep bombing freely russian convoys crossing rivers with impunity.


Time is not on the side of russia , time is on the side of nato . russia needs to be more effective in the battlefield , and completely dominate over ukraine airspace , if they ever want to force nato to give up,, then russia will need to dominate the airspace of ukraine , and bomb anywhere with their airforce on moving targets with impunity , either with their airforce or with strikes drones.

Vann7 wrote:
The videos released by pro russian sources of two su-25's confirm exactly one by one
my warnings.. they are  fighting from stand off positions ,with unguided far from precise rockets
,and not like ukraine is doing with their drones with precision strikes on the russian targets..  

recent ukraine strike video on russian targets.


so ukraine air to ground precision strikes is way better than the russian one , in quality and quantity.
unfortunately however is not good enough ukros attacks to turn the tide , however over long term ,
all this attacks of ukraine will make it very very expensive in human casualties , for russia , because ukraine is received man power aid , from the entire west , while russia is only using russian citizens to fight . it means  that russia will need to do something to increase the security of their airspace..


all this russian su-25s operations ,what it shows is that russian airforce [u] do not control ,neither have air superiority at all [/b] over ukraine airspace, is contested ,with ukraine having the upper hand  with precision air to ground strikes, while russia having only the upper hand in cruise missiles ,
relative precision strikes.. eventually overtime those kalibers missiles don't grow in trees , and russia will be forced to use less and less.. while ukraine will have the entire nato industries providing them with endless weapons..

that said.. russia can't play a long war in ukraine an expect a victory if don't achieve air superiority or even air domination over ukraine airspace first. , when they can't outmatch nato in production of weapons or manpower.

here is russian airforce.. bombing from standoff positions , with unguided rockets..  

https://antimaydan.info/2022/05/souznye_vojska_nastupaut_na_liman_v_dnr_zahvatyvaya_odnu_za_drugoj_pozici.html

this is showing major weakness of russian airforce over ukriane airspace , notice how fast those su-25 are flying.. how are they suppose to hit anything ?  close air support is officially death in the russian airforce ,they don't have any , in zones ukros control.  while ukraine can continue every day
sendingvideos of their drones smashing russian artillery and tanks and fuel depots ,with precision and documenting everything in video , formaximum demoralization of russian army.

i don't understand why the russian military don't provide manpads to every unit to their soldiers to keep those ukro drones  down.. and never in the air not even for a minute.  

in general terms , most times the battles between russia and ukraine can be summarized in ukraine using accurate drone strikes and artillery strikes deep inside russian positions , and russia responding with waves of unguided artillery  and very expensive ,with regular precision with a limited number of cruise missiles .  Who will win?   if russia ruble was doing pretty bad , and no one in the west buying russian energy ,then russia will had been already seeking for ways to retreat and give up.  

russia needs to keep striking those fuel depots non stop and power grid lines ,and completely hit the supply lines of ukraine , so they don't eat and can't rearm.. and need to stop ukraine drones one way or the other. it can't continue allowing them to fly above their soldiers positions.  if russia continue showing weakness in ukraine , what is going to do is encourage nato to participate more directly in the fight ,and use their own airforce to strike at russian army then run away to poland and romania ,
and make things far worse. my prediction is ukraine will start using cruise missiles too on russian positions and very long artillery strikes ,that will have a significant damage to the morale of russian soldiers and multiply their losses dramatically.

Instead of being stupid and sending SUN video links, it is better for you to look at any Russian city on youtube and see that life is going completely normally. Smoking the dick of Western propaganda will eventually put you in the dustbin of history - as well as Hitler or Napoleon, although Napoleon was certainly a good military leader. He just had too much appetite.
Tell me about the conflict in which the United States waged war against a country that had an echeloned air defense system, such as Ukraine ? In which war, after the Vietnam War, was one "state" so wholeheartedly helped, as Ukraine was supported by the Brussels-Washington Western ideas ?

And as for the "morale" of Russian soldiers, those same soldiers have peed on all Western invaders in the past. There is something called tradition, so it is very difficult to surpass Real Madrid in the number of titles won in the Champions League. The Russians don't even know how to play football very good, but their morale and their fighting spirit in relation to the increasingly LGBT Nazi West is on a much higher level.
You obviously live in the West and smoke the Brussels-Washington ideas as valid, that is, you have no common sense and you do not see where all this could end. You are probably as stupid as those and think the same as Brussels and Washington, you dream of millions of Russians killed, as in World War II. Well, you see, there is nothing of that, no chance, because this time both the Russians and the West will suffer if there is a global war. Stop smoking the dick of Western propaganda, you will have healthier lungs and throat or live your "western dream of supremacy" like those on picture bellow.

ALAMO wrote:Is there any sense in commenting on someone who lives in an alternative universe?

He sure does, he is in the US Congress.

@Podlodka77

what alternative reality you talk about?

are you going to deny that..

- ukraine sinked the best russian destroyer in black sea with drones support likely and or antiship missiles? if they could do it with mosca, they can do it with every other warships in russian black sea.

-are you going to deny that ukraine have been able to sneak their attack drones all the way , deep inside of russian cities?  im observing reality, that russia air defenses and airforce performance is far
from impressive , they claimed air superiority in the third day of war.. and all videos released by
russia military shows ,this is not the case..  russia airforce is forced to fly very fast and low ,to avoid
their planes being shot down.. is called air contested.

-are you going to deny that the russian convoys are from time to time ,every week ,is sistematically in the dozens destroyed from almost every week or two by ukraine drones attacks with artillery support?

-are you going to deny that russia have been forced to retreat from 2 cities ?  right next to their borders..?   ukraine is hitting russian positions , every day with artillery and drones.. and with precision that surpass the russian one..  

-not even russian military released own videos , of "Destruction of american artillery" shows any destruction at all , but total miss.  what i see is major problems for russia military , in efficiency ,
and basically they just trying to win the war ,just with artillery alone , flatening cities to the ground.
but had they had precision drones in big enough quantities , they will not be so slow , and waste so much russian lives .

i was merely stating the fact.. of the dangerous situation that russia is placing their forces by not properly  security their airspace. not doing combined arms operations , sending tanks alone in cities without ground  escorts and less without air protection..  this tactics are causing russia to receive so much armor destroyed , and so many soldiers..  anything less than total domination of ukraine army is a defeat for russian army.  because showing weakness to the west , like for example losing your best destroyer,, or allowing your cities to be so easily bombed by drones , or bomb russian command centers, encourage the west to continue sending weapons non stop and even increase their military hardware and the lethality of it too..  so now long range artillery , next cruise missiles to strike russian positions , next nato combat planes , to strike from across the border at russian positions and later make it look , it was "ukraine airforce" who did it.  there is so many ways , the west can increase the pressure on russia ,and russia shows already ,that is at its maximum capacity , that is showing major problems to dominate in the war. since why they forced to retreat.

Russia weakness in fightign ukraine encourage more weapons to ukraine , if russia  wants the war ever to end ,needs to be much more dominating.. is as simple as that.. is reality.. the west will only be discouraged of sending weapons if they see ukraine don't have a chance to win ,but russia is proving the west ,that ukraine do have a chance to push back russian military and this is why those weapons continues being given.

Isos wrote:

SeigSoloyvov wrote:

Big_Gazza wrote:

PhSt wrote:Target wasn't hit. I don't care if Russia has to steal technology from their adversaries but they have to improve the accuracy of their weapon systems.

Wasn't hit?  Whatever damage was inflicted by this (or other?) drone strikes was obviously sufficient to get the Ukie to demob from their firing positions and scoot into forest cover that they thought would be safe...  

M777s located, attacked, neutralised.

Sounds effective to me.

End of the day no, the arty can still function and the men that lived can still operate it, that's not effective.

For an unguided round it was very precise. The shrapnels probably killed plenty of operators there if they were around. They probably finished it with some other hits.

This is just making up excuses

Vann7 wrote:@Podlodka77

what alternative reality you talk about?

are you going to deny that..

- ukraine sinked the best russian destroyer in black sea with drones support likely and or antiship missiles? if they could do it with mosca, they can do it with every other warships in russian black sea.

-are you going to deny that ukraine have been able to sneak their attack drones all the way , deep inside of russian cities?  im observing reality, that russia air defenses and airforce performance is far
from impressive , they claimed air superiority in the third day of war.. and all videos released by
russia military shows ,this is not the case..  russia airforce is forced to fly very fast and low ,to avoid
their planes being shot down.. is called air contested.

-are you going to deny that the russian convoys are from time to time ,every week ,is  sistematically in the dozens destroyed from almost every week or two by ukraine drones attacks with artillery support?

-are you going to deny that russia have been forced to retreat from 2 cities ?  right next to their borders..?   ukraine is hitting russian positions , every day with artillery and drones.. and with precision that surpass the russian one..  

-not even russian military released own videos , of "Destruction of american artillery" shows any destruction at all , but total miss.  what i see is major problems for russia military , in efficiency ,
and basically they just trying to win the war ,just with artillery alone , flatening cities to the ground.
but had they had precision drones in big enough quantities , they will not be so slow , and waste so much russian lives .

i was merely stating the fact.. of the dangerous situation that russia is placing their forces by not properly  security their airspace. not doing combined arms operations , sending tanks alone in cities without ground  escorts and less without air protection..  this tactics are causing russia to receive so much armor destroyed , and so many soldiers..  anything less than total domination of ukraine army is a defeat for russian army.  because showing weakness to the west , like for example losing your best destroyer,, or allowing your cities to be so easily bombed by drones , or bomb russian command centers, encourage the west to continue sending weapons non stop and even increase their military hardware and the lethality of it too..  so now long range artillery , next cruise missiles to strike russian positions , next nato combat planes , to strike from across the border at russian positions and later make it look , it was "ukraine airforce" who did it.  there is so many ways , the west can increase the pressure on russia ,and russia shows already ,that is at its maximum capacity , that is showing major problems to dominate in the war. since why they forced to retreat.

Russia weakness in fightign ukraine encourage more weapons to ukraine , if russia  wants the war ever to end ,needs to be much more dominating.. is as simple as that.. is reality.. the west will only be discouraged of sending weapons if they see ukraine don't have a chance to win ,but russia is proving the west ,that ukraine do have a chance to push back russian military and this is why those weapons continues being given.

1. First of all, "Moscow" was not a destroyer, but a cruiser, and the greatest damage in the whole story about the sinking of that ship is its name. That ship was in the twilight of its service and did not leave the Black Sea for years. The truth about that ship is not known, but it is obvious that you "know" that Ukroshitstan fighters destroyed that ship.
2. I don't know which Russian corvettes were "hit" and what the damage is on them. You're smoking Western propaganda dick again.
3. So, according to you, the West and Ukraine will target Russian positions and cities, while the Russians will sit quietly and watch what is happening ?
4. Precisely because of your imbecility and misunderstanding that "devil" exists, that is, nuclear weapons, in the end we can come to a nuclear war. And while you are "dreaming" of an attack by NATO and Ukraine on Russian positions, New York or London will also be razed to the ground.
5. And while you are farting about how Russia is left without armored vehicles, I must remind you that Germany, France and Great Britain TOGETHER have less than 700 tanks.
As far as I know, "Sevmash" still produces nuclear submarines, while "Irkut", "NAPO" and "KNAAZ" produce Su-30SM, Su-34, Su-35S and Su-57. The tanks are still leaving the Uralvagonzavod factory, while the fleet is being built at the Admiralty Shipyard, Severanaya Werf, the Amur Shipyard, etc.
Russia continues to produce; S-500, S-400, S-350, Buk-M3, Tor-M2, Pancir-SM, 9K720 Iskander, 3K55 "Bastion", 3K60 "Bal", H47M2 "Kinzhal", 3M14 / 3M54 "Kalibr", H-101, and 3M22 "Zircon" is coming. Not to mention air-to-air and air-to-ground missiles.

HOW IS WEAPON PRODUCTION GOING IN UKRAINE ?
You have severely damaged your throat and lungs by smoking Western propaganda.

Vann7 wrote:@Podlodka77

what alternative reality you talk about?

are you going to deny that..

- ukraine sinked the best russian destroyer in black sea with drones support likely and or antiship missiles? if they could do it with mosca, they can do it with every other warships in russian black sea.

-are you going to deny that ukraine have been able to sneak their attack drones all the way , deep inside of russian cities?  im observing reality, that russia air defenses and airforce performance is far
from impressive , they claimed air superiority in the third day of war.. and all videos released by
russia military shows ,this is not the case..  russia airforce is forced to fly very fast and low ,to avoid
their planes being shot down.. is called air contested.

-are you going to deny that the russian convoys are from time to time ,every week ,is  sistematically in the dozens destroyed from almost every week or two by ukraine drones attacks with artillery support?

-are you going to deny that russia have been forced to retreat from 2 cities ?  right next to their borders..?   ukraine is hitting russian positions , every day with artillery and drones.. and with precision that surpass the russian one..  

-not even russian military released own videos , of "Destruction of american artillery" shows any destruction at all , but total miss.  what i see is major problems for russia military , in efficiency ,
and basically they just trying to win the war ,just with artillery alone , flatening cities to the ground.
but had they had precision drones in big enough quantities , they will not be so slow , and waste so much russian lives .

i was merely stating the fact.. of the dangerous situation that russia is placing their forces by not properly  security their airspace. not doing combined arms operations , sending tanks alone in cities without ground  escorts and less without air protection..  this tactics are causing russia to receive so much armor destroyed , and so many soldiers..  anything less than total domination of ukraine army is a defeat for russian army.  because showing weakness to the west , like for example losing your best destroyer,, or allowing your cities to be so easily bombed by drones , or bomb russian command centers, encourage the west to continue sending weapons non stop and even increase their military hardware and the lethality of it too..  so now long range artillery , next cruise missiles to strike russian positions , next nato combat planes , to strike from across the border at russian positions and later make it look , it was "ukraine airforce" who did it.  there is so many ways , the west can increase the pressure on russia ,and russia shows already ,that is at its maximum capacity , that is showing major problems to dominate in the war. since why they forced to retreat.

Russia weakness in fightign ukraine encourage more weapons to ukraine , if russia  wants the war ever to end ,needs to be much more dominating.. is as simple as that.. is reality.. the west will only be discouraged of sending weapons if they see ukraine don't have a chance to win ,but russia is proving the west ,that ukraine do have a chance to push back russian military and this is why those weapons continues being given.

He spends repeating all the Western lies.
Some, against the Russians, are already over a century old.
Others such as the drone issue, poor Russian planning, etc; they are newer, but start from the same prejudice.
For years I read various Western publications on war and armaments that repeated a bunch of lies or rumors about the Soviet Union/Russia.
With the advent of the internet, I had access to other information that showed how unreliable Western analyzes are.
Today it can be easily confirmed, just by seeing how the rumors they spread, are dismantled within a few hours or days.
The "sinking" of the Moskva" is an example of this.
It has been repeating itself for weeks and there is no real evidence.
Except for the pro-Western accounts of the networks, which like yours, are constantly disinforming against Russia.
Recently, another false collapse was repeated. In this case it was the Admiral Makarov ship, which is now doing its best and operating off Odessa.
The truth is that you are filling the forum with all that Internet rubbish, which in addition to being boring and not contributing anything, cannot be taken seriously.

Vann7, are you gay ?
I have to ask you that, don't be angry ..
Obviously, you like to be "filled" by the members of this on this forum, so I would advise you to look for another forum that would meet your expectations.
Don’t get mad, but I really think that would be better for you.
You look at everything with a very narrow horizon, and you don't see the breadth of global events in the world.

And while you are "dreaming" of Western superiority, I must write to you that a quarter of the population of Germany is already 65+ years old. And what does that tell you ?
The Germans have imported and are importing migrants in order for them to do jobs that the Germans do not want to do. However, in a few decades, the children of these migrants will infiltrate all the pores and institutions of German society. Therefore, you can expect a drop in standards, a change in the political and demographic picture of Germany. The Germans are already rapidly disappearing.
And all these brands like Audi, Porsche, BMW or Mercedes will feel a drop in quality and a drop in demand. Moreover, the automotive industry has already been criticized for its unnecessary electronic nonsense and frequent breakdowns.
I have to ask you about the demographic situation in the southern parts of the United States. The question for you is; which language is most spoken in Los Angeles ? English ? Nope !!! What is the demographic situation in California, New Mexico, Texas, etc ? Therefore, it must be clear to you that there are many problems in your "paradise", that is, in the West.

You are a man who does not understand the essence of Russia and one average Russian. Most Russians (also Serbs) are accustomed to living a not-so-comfortable life, unlike the West, which has long since destroyed the institution of "man" and marriage and family. In the West, a man must be more or less a slave.
It is tragic that there are more and more women priests in Western churches, which has never been the case. The West is now more communist than Moscow has ever been, but it has two centers; primary in Washington and secondary in Brussels, Tokyo and Canberra.
However, Western "communism" only serves to make the ordinary people of the USA, the EU and Australia swallow what is served to them, while the cockroaches that organize everything in secret try to collect everything for themselves.

What are you, Vann7, slave or gay or both ?

Hole wrote:


Repairing tracks

Do you have a link to this video?

Walther von Oldenburg wrote:Poland...?

Why would it want any part f Ukraine?

Western ukrainians have polish blood.

Would be nice if they send some soldiers there so that russians bomb the shit out of them to remind them their place.

For Orban I guess it is an agreement with Russia and they would be happy if Hungary also creates more chaos which would release some chaos onon russian side.

The problem with HUngary is this.
Orban might be straight with RUssia.
But his successor might be a complete cocksucker
ie allows America to put cruise missiles etc on the territory.

Russia should be firm.
The land belongs to the successor state of the Soviet Union ie the Russian Federation.
(As the interrim state, the Ukraine renaged on all its agreements and forfeited any rights in the matter eg by becoming a racist anti-Russian terrorist state and vassal of Uncle Scam).
So the region needs Russian military bases, federally integrated with Russia/any "interrim" Malorossiya etc.
Hungarian regains its special status and its a simple visa process for Hungarian speakers in or out. Provided they aren't NATO sponsored terrorists/criminals etc.

An agreement only works if its safe decades into the future. The Russia-Ukraine "agreement" was a disaster. Hopefully Russia has learnt that by now.

About the subject of how much territory Russia should take , i would say up to 90%   ,
and just leave the zones near the borders with hostile poland.

The reason for  russia to do this , is because ukraine is a puppet state , under full control of NATO.
they asking to become members , on papers , but in real practice ,they are almost one nato member state , with the major difference that nato is not under obligation to invade directly to help ukraine .

So if russia stop at kherson and then declare or agreed for a cease of fire ,then that's when nato will invade and deploy military bases on the zones russia don't invaded..  So russia for military and security reasons ,is under obligation regardless if they plan to take  territory or not , to fully occupy ukraine up to at least 90% of the main land and leave the two major cities in the west for the nazis citizens living in all parts of ukraine to be deporoted there . if russia agree for a peace with kiev , it will never work.. they simply will use the time of cease of fire to mobilize more weapons to the frontline to regroup and continue fighting.  so i have no doubts urakine needs to completely de-nazified and demilitarized..  that's how you remove nato influence and control over ukraine and kiev captured too , and all neonazis deported to poland or far west of the country ,then create a checkpoint and not allow neo nazis and their families  to enter in ukraine without permission of russia.

when it comes to anexation , it will not be a good idea , because integrating almost all ukraine into russia the crimean way ,means ,that russia will have to pay from their budget their pensions.. so better that russia once it capture at least 90% of ukraine , and kick all the nazis and disarm them ,and remove them from russian controlled areas.. and run new elections and get a puppet government for zelensky. Then Russia should officially declare that russia  - revoke the independence - their separatist gaining in 1991 ,for violation ofthe agreements weapons of mass destruction ,that ukraine have been depeloping ,from bio weapons to stealing enrinchment uranium from their nuclear reactors.

all things said , it would be a huge mistake for russia ,for accepting anything less that the disbanding of ukraine government and disbanding of its neonanzi constitution Cease of fire could be only for a day or two accepted if it is to evacuate civilians so they moved out of the warzone.

Isos wrote:

Walther von Oldenburg wrote:Poland...?

Why would it want any part f Ukraine?

Western ukrainians have polish blood.

Would be nice if they send some soldiers there so that russians bomb the shit out of them to remind them their place.

For Orban I guess it is an agreement with Russia and they would be happy if Hungary also creates more chaos which would release some chaos onon russian side.

I once mentioned Ukraine to a Polish coworker (a few years ago). Before I could say anything he responded "Lviv is Polish". Prettymuch summed up how the Polish thing of this land.

VARGR198 wrote:

Isos wrote:

Walther von Oldenburg wrote:Poland...?

Why would it want any part f Ukraine?

Western ukrainians have polish blood.

Would be nice if they send some soldiers there so that russians bomb the shit out of them to remind them their place.

For Orban I guess it is an agreement with Russia and they would be happy if Hungary also creates more chaos which would release some chaos onon russian side.

I once mentioned Ukraine to a Polish coworker (a few years ago). Before I could say anything he responded "Lviv is Polish".  Prettymuch summed up how the Polish thing of this land.

Well for their defence, their country was literally moved left and right over the centuries by empires so it's quite normal to have polish roots for neighbouring people.

caveat emptor wrote:

flamming_python wrote:

ALAMO wrote:That is a kind of alternative scenario, too.
It would be the Israelization of the European-based conflict.
Russia will take all it wants, leaving the remaining corp rotting.
Boarded by the high wall, and destroying anything and everyone who will be stupid enough to rise a head above the grass level.
Sure it will bring some Palestinian level of hate, and made some opinion damage to Russia, but ... they will be presented as worse than the devil himself, no matter how they will proceed. So why should they give a f%k?

All territory of the Ukraine must be taken under control

No 'Israelization' is to be permitted. Unless you want Russia to start facing the same problems as Israel.

I don't agree that whole Ukraine should be taken. Maybe occupy for a period western part, to neutralize garbage. Organizers will probably flee beforehand.
Eastern and southern parts should be proclaimed territory of Russia and not same half ass republics. Question of Kiev and some other regions remain open. 
Trying to take whole Ukraine will mean that Russia will have to take an immense financial burden and responsibility.

Russia had this burden between 1991 and 2014. Spending Billions and Billions onto this failed fake state trying to prevent its implosion or explosion.
Deals were made, money was spend. For what? The next regime came in, collected (stole) the money and broke all contracts. "We´re independent, you don´t have a say!"

After Russia took over all of the territory, incorporating the regions more or less into the Federation, the money spend will be no burden but an investment. And looking at
the financial results of the last three month, most of the money is already earned.