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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #16

    Stealthflanker
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    Post  Stealthflanker Mon May 16, 2022 8:14 am

    Saw BMPT being deployed. Well this will be the real baptism of fire for the vehicle.

    I'm not really a fan of it tho compared to dismounted infantry, but we will see how it fare.
    Regular
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    Post  Regular Mon May 16, 2022 9:02 am

    Stealthflanker wrote:Saw BMPT being deployed. Well this will be the real baptism of fire for the vehicle.

    I'm not really a fan of it tho compared to dismounted infantry, but we will see how it fare.

    Wasn't it deployed in Syria before?

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    Post  Hinex1988 Mon May 16, 2022 10:04 am

    🇷🇺🇺🇦Briefing by Russian Defence Ministry

    ▫The Armed Forces of the Russian Federation continue the special military operation in Ukraine.

    💥High-precision air-based missiles of the Russian Aerospace Forces have hit 2 command posts overnight, including the command post of the 72nd mechanized brigade near Tsapovka in Kharkov Region, 16 areas of manpower and military equipment concentration, 8 long-term firing points and 5 missile and artillery weapon depots near the Krasny Liman in Kharkov Region, Vladimirovka and Konstantinovka in Donetsk People's, as well as Berestovoe in Lugansk People's Republic.

    ▫The attacks have resulted in the elimination of more than 360 nationalists and up to 78 armoured and motor vehicles.

    ✈💥Operational-tactical and army aviation have hit 3 command posts, 104 areas of manpower and military equipment concentration, and 2 fuel depots.

    💥Missile troops and artillery have hit 325 areas of manpower and military equipment concentration, 14 command posts and 24 artillery units at firing positions.

    💥Russian air defence means have shot down 2 Su-25 aircraft of the Ukrainian Air Force near Yevgenovka, Nikolaev Region and Velikaya Kamyshevakha.

    ▫In addition, 1 Ukrainian Su-24 aircraft has been shot down near Snake Island.

    ▫10 Ukrainian unmanned aerial vehicles, including 2 Soviet-made Tu-143 Reis UAVs, have been shot down over Novosvetlovka in Lugansk People's Republic, Dementievka, Izyum and Malye Prokhody in Kharkov region, and Donetsk, Vysokoe and Kalinovskoe in Donetsk People's Republic.

    ▫In addition, 18 rockets of Smerch multiple-launch rocket system have been intercepted near Malaya Kamyshevakha, Snezhkovka, Shpakovka, Ivanovka in Kharkov Region and Chernobaevka in Kherson Region.

    📊In total, 168 Ukrainian aircraft and 125 helicopters, 889 unmanned aerial vehicles, 307 anti-aircraft missile systems, 3,108 tanks and other armored combat vehicles, 381 multiple launch rocket systems, 1,529 field artillery and mortars, as well as 2,949 units of special military vehicles were destroyed during the operation.

    #MoD #Russia #Ukraine #Briefing
    @mod_russiaa_en

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    Post  DerWolf Mon May 16, 2022 10:23 am

    Does the Terminator have Active Protection System installed?
    Isos
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    Post  Isos Mon May 16, 2022 10:37 am

    DerWolf wrote:Does the Terminator have Active Protection System installed?

    No but they should have. However compare to yank the terminator doesn't hve munitions inside of the vehicle so it's less likely to kill it easily. And since it doesn't have a tirret with a 126mm gun it is lighter so ot can carry more armour on the sides.
    lancelot
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    Post  lancelot Mon May 16, 2022 10:43 am

    sepheronx wrote:
    AlfaT8 wrote:It's a slow week.
    I honestly think this should be a banable offense for posting something so ridiculously bad.
    Those British guys doing these videos like VisualPolitik EN have a blatant anti-Russian and anti-Chinese bias.

    This guy of all of those Brits is actually the one who usually tries to pull it straight. I think he is in the Czech Republic. Sheer coincidence CZ is the same place where RFE/RL HQ is in plus a lot of other US funded anti-Russia propaganda arms? Well anyway, the bias is still there. And quite evident in this video.

    https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/VisualPolitik


    Last edited by lancelot on Mon May 16, 2022 10:50 am; edited 1 time in total

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    Post  GarryB Mon May 16, 2022 10:45 am

    Does Terminator have APS ?

    No, but it does have a flat turret that does not offer much of a target for enemy anti armour weapons where the crew sit... making it very well protected without needing tons of heavy armour to make it so.

    Wonder if they might be testing the new air burst 30mm cannon shells...

    What army did he serve in lol?. I'm in an army and have been in one since 2013. He's arguing that a mosin with iron sights is superior to an AK with iron sights. There is no universe where that makes sense, and that's why armies generally issue assault rifles as standard issue weapons and abandoned bolt action rifles after WW2.

    The west has stuck with bolt action sniper rifles for quite some time, and the Russians introduced both the SV-98 bolt action rifle but also the SV-99 manually operated rifle for urban combat.

    In fact during the 1980s Soldier of Fortune magazine took great pride in claiming Muj armed with 303s were defeating the Soviets in Afghanistan.

    Soldiers who have a weeks training as a soldier might be better off being armed with the weapon of a hunter and to operate like a hunter even on a modern battlefield.

    I have used bolt action rifles and semi auto rifles for hunting and I know when there is a group of animals that need to be killed that the semi auto works best, but that is not to say I would give that definitive support... if those goats had assault rifles too I would want to be shooting from rather further away... a bit like the Afghans in Afghanistan were using SVDs and PKMs to shoot at HATO forces outside the range of assault rifles... obviously the terrain makes that rather easier of course.

    I don't think anyone is advocating all soldiers be equipped with bolt action rifles, but as mentioned... you give young people a full auto assault rifle it is not going to be hard for a hunter to find them as they open fire at everything and anything so locating them wont be a problem even at long range.

    "Cadets" aren't going to really be effective shooting at enemies (again, that are firing back) 400-800 meters away

    Cadets are not likely to be effective at any distance... most of these orcs wont even fire a shot in combat before the artillery or air power gets them.

    Think you are missing what a cadet is...

    What Russia lost is the COST. Lets face it, whatever the outcome of this war, its HUGELY costly, and Russia does not have a captive reserve currency like the USA in order pay for this shit show

    The cost is nothing compared with the cost of doing nothing.... how long before bio weapons start to appear that target Russians only... just after Covid is a good time to take this heat from the west... leaving it longer would just mean they would be better prepared.

    Putin was too weak on his call, he should have told the Finnish President that joining NATO makes Finland a direct threat to Russia that Russia will have to consider how to deal with, and that no options are off the table.

    I suspect the final result of Finland joining HATO is closing of the Russian border with Finland to all trade and traffic and lots of tactical nukes pointed at the new US vassals... they are hardly going to invade... there would be no point.

    Finland doesn't want to play then that is Finlands choice... Russias mom can make Finlands mom bully them into playing with Russia just because they are neighbours.

    Finland only becomes a threat to Russia when US troops arrive but US troops can be dealt with without having to post the same number of Russian soldiers to oppose them?

    Make it clear that any fighting with a HATO country will rapidly become nuclear bccause any attacks on Russia from HATO territory will result in missile strikes on Brussels and the US of A as well as strikes on the forces actually attacking whether they are from Poland or Finland or Spain.

    We cannot compromise with Europe

    You are about to close your borders to Europe and turn to the rest of the world... if they move missiles to your border then artillery and missiles with tactical nuclear payloads will defeat anything the can direct at you... their nuclear bombs require aircraft to fly them to their delivery point... have you noticed how keen they are to join in directly in Ukraine?

    But how can you disregard Finland if they begin to pose a threat to the border?

    They have been cooperating with HATO for decades... the only thing that has changed is that they get to wear the badge... and of course the US now controls their foreign policy on everything...

    Ah these comments about how easy it would be to knock out finland etc, Armchair Generals at their finest no clue about war but pretend they know how to wage and knock out an entire country lol if only war was that easy and simple

    They don't need to knock it out... it is not relevant. If an attack comes from Finland then the attacking force will be nuked along with the HQs that issued the orders... whether that is Brussels or Washington... all for one and one for all... which is why the US is going to move troops and missiles there but will be very careful otherwise.

    These statements by these Polish politicians mean nothing. They're worried about Russia winning in the Ukraine, so they try to distract it. That's the long and short of it.

    Worried... they are shitting themselves.

    If ever Finland does become an official NATzO member, there is no other choice but to have it along with the Baltic chihuahua artificial states liberated and absorbed into the Russian federation.

    If there are Russians in those places who feel abused, then they are living in the west... the ultimate abuser... of course they should be oppressed.... that is what the west does... if they don't like it I am sure they can get Russian citizenship and move to Russia to escape the hell.

    Not Russias problem to fix their neighbours that are no actual threat...

    How to deal with Finland? Well any battle plan has to keep the Winter War and its still important lessons in mind. Don't attack all along the frontier. Follow Shapashnikov and Timoshenko's February offensive, attack on a narrow front as most of Finland's important government and military stuff is along the country's south and use airstrikes to take out airforce bases in the rest of the country and the war is over in a couple weeks.

    Why attack at all?

    The best way to treat them is as adults that can make their own choices... and choosing to be meatshield cannon fodder for the US and its war against Russia is their choice to make... will be funny when their US ambassador starts telling them their foreign policies like the American Ambassador to Germany does...

    The reality is, Russia is already at war with NATO and not taking this seriously. All these people are not taking the threat of nuclear war and its danger seriously, therefore the deterrent value of nuclear weapons is declining dangerously. A harsh reminder needs to be issued or we are all in peril.

    HATO currently thinks it is fun because it is not costing them anything except old surplus weapons... when Russia pivots away from the west and stops trading with them then things will start to sink in... but maybe not... who cares... not Russias problem.

    The idiots in Finland are just commiting economic suicide...so let them do this if they want so hard! You know the saying..."never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake!"

    The same suicide Ukraine committed when it cut off its economy to Russia... but what can you say...

    “Russia’s war in Ukraine is not going as Moscow had planned. They failed to take Kiev. They are pulling back from around Kharkiv, their major offensive in the Donbass has stalled. Russia is not achieving its strategic objectives,” Stoltenberg said.

    They didn't try to take Kiev, and for strategic objectives.... they have you squealing like a stuck pig so there is that objective ticked off quite nicely.

    Pretty sure they didn't plan to slaughter this many of their neighbours boys but HATO is tying their hands... literally in some cases...

    Motivate the Ukrainians to keep dying... how does this help HATO... maybe that is the plan... get rid of Ukrainians and Russians... much like the plan for Asia is to get rid of Indians and Chinese in some pointless conflict...

    Stoltenberg is a censored

    Wow, all of that text because the cheap mass-produced model airplane that is the Orlan-10 has cheap off-the-shelf electronics and doesn't come with space lasers installed.

    Yeah... Vann be a big stupid... obviously having million dollar custom electronics would be much better for Russia than using cheap off the shelf stuff that is easy to get and cheap... and the key is that it is all Putins fault... absolutely everything... trip and stub your toe... you were probably thinking about Putin and he made you do it...

    The head of the NATOstani sock puppets is increasingly chanelling Baghdad Bob these days... Razz Maybe Stolty needs to get together with his predecessor (Fogh-of-War Rassmussen) and they can do a little duet? Too late for Eurofagvision, and Ukropisstain was always designated as the winner, but the show must go on

    Well he can't admit the truth... the western propaganda machine has been telling the world the Russians are losing and are on the edge of collapse, and the cost is going to break them too...

    3. U.S. specialists tested new drugs in the Ukraine biolabs in circumvention of international safety standards. According to Kirillov, acting this way “Western companies seriously reduce the costs of research programs and gain significant competitive advantages.”

    Using Ukrainians as guinea pigs... Orc pigs?

    Don't see why Orlan can't be made even cheaper, those cameras look expensive, and better to get a cheap Chinese knockoff instead. Other than that, it's an expendable recon drone, sometimes it's used as bait to draw out AA teams as well before covering them with artillery.

    A cheap shitty camera can ruin a drone... all the very early Russian drones suffered because they had cheap simple cameras and no stabilisation so you really couldn't see what they saw when you were operating them, so they bought Israeli drones which had much better cameras and much more mature and sophisticated software and control equipment...

    Anyone can make a drone body and motors are not that hard either, but a flight control system and optics is what makes or breaks a drone... which might have to work 500 times so a good camera makes a difference... in peace time you will be using them over and over... it is only during war you might go through a few thousand.

    As for the rest of Vann's post, I dare not view it in any detail, but I do like the idea of using aerostats with radars deployed along the border. Have them a dozen KMs in and they'll still be able to spot anything on approach from a long distance.

    The fact that Russia has already sold such systems to China suggests they already have that... and of course they have a wide range of radar both mobile and static around their borders already.

    [quote]Waste of time, Civilians operating Javelins and T-14 deployed to Ukraine were peak stupidity of this video[/quoet]

    The facts of the matter is that no tank is 100% safe from everything and no enemy force will trying to penetrate a tank from the front where its armour is thickest and being a T-14 matters.

    Wherever possible they will try to hit it from the side or rear in which case what sort of difference does it make whether it is an upgraded T-72 or T-90 or T-14?

    I honestly think this should be a banable offense for posting something so ridiculously bad.

    There are no super weapons that cannot be destroyed on the battlefield.... except the KV-1 in the Winter War... but that is not to say one could not have been destroyed by driving over a mine or a frozen lake that does not support its weight...

    They are all useless if they can be destroyed is the view of a child.

    If however Finland is not actually a threat then Russia should carry on as usual (Finland has been acting like NATO in all but name for years and Russia wasn't doing anything big over it)

    Finland isn't a threat... they are just shitting themselves that Ukraines tactics are not working and it is being ground up with a relatively small force.

    What I don't understand is why they think HATO membership could save them.

    and that was my idea , which by the way i posted many years ago , when told the truth

    Those Russian aerostats predate any mention from you...

    But now if they join NATO they will be doing the bidding of the US to confront Russia, and breaking their peace treaty obligation to be neutral. Does Russia just say MEH? Perhaps Russia should just get out and say they will plan for a special militray operation to counter Finnish actions.

    Losing their independence and becoming a vassal state of the US is probably punishment enough.

    Finland is a loyal US client state but it's not a total tool, it has not acted belligerently in any way towards Russia thus far and there is simply no evidence that they would switch to Ukraine-style retardation or even just Lithuania/Poland-style retardation if they join NATO. Likely, nothing much will change.

    Will be interesting to see if the US wants to activate its new tool, and how Finland will respond...

    I'm not really a fan of it tho compared to dismounted infantry, but we will see how it fare.

    Rather more bullet resistent than dismounted infantry... and the firepower it carries would be impressive against troops in the open... and as much of the Orc army is now walking that is what they will be fighting.



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    nomadski
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    Post  nomadski Mon May 16, 2022 11:10 am


    How to deal with Finland ? Well first , we have to give up on this idea of " neutrality " in the world ! Brotherhood of mankind or the " proletariat " . War exists in nature and human society as a Law . But a proportional response to a threat or attack , is far better way than sitting on one's hands in a diplomatic " civilized " room , expecting to change the world , with our minds ! While a threat is allowed to become existential , requiring a massive war or nuclear exchange .

    It is better to diminish the dangers of existential threats of conventional and non-conventional wars , by practical measures of limited wars along all fronts and showing the intention and ability to escalate and retaliate . Up to and including a nuclear war . The recent military exercises of simulated nuclear attack , between borders of Poland and Latvia , was excellent ! More like it please .

    The Yank and Europe in ME and Afghanistan were subject , are subject to continuous attacks . And so are the Israelis . The Europeans need the same treatment on European soil . Otherwise , they will not go back inside their box . But Russia leadership , needs to connect the dots in their head . Is European blood more valuable than Asian blood ? The sanctity and immunity of European soil , against war or attack ,must be broken . The beautiful Architecture and people in Euro , must be ( in places ) , reduced to rubble .......The same as they did to Asians , Africans , South - Americans , Russians , Chinese...........

    lancelot
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    Post  lancelot Mon May 16, 2022 11:12 am

    GarryB wrote:
    But how can you disregard Finland if they begin to pose a threat to the border?
    They have been cooperating with HATO for decades... the only thing that has changed is that they get to wear the badge... and of course the US now controls their foreign policy on everything...
    No. There is a definitive difference. At one point after the collapse of the Soviet Union the Finns still tried to maintain their neutrality. I think it started to unravel after the Bosnian conflict, when the Finns countered some US narratives regarding shootings the US tried to paint as being made by Bosnian Serbs initially. The Finns inconvenienced a lot of people, so they had to be put in place. Even in Sweden you still had people like Hans Blix going against the US narrative as a Iraqi weapons inspector in the early 2000s. So the Swedes also had to be put in place.

    I think Putin's speech in the Munich security conference in 2007 is what really spooked them. That is about the time when the Finns started getting long range MLRS and ordered the air launched cruise missiles. The Finns attitudes also got worse after the Baltics joined NATO.

    I personally think Russia should not take these challenges by the Finns lightly at all. I would certainly not allow them to have long range systems like that so close to Russia's population centers.

    I think Putin isn't playing it up because he has bigger fish to fry at this time. But I doubt it won't be considered eventually.
    Just consider this. There are only two countries in Europe with the JASSM and those are Poland and Finland.

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    Post  Serberus Mon May 16, 2022 11:32 am

    caveat emptor wrote:
    Vann7 wrote:Finally discovered , the puzzle of why the Russian military shows such incredible weakness in both ,providing air cover to their ground troops from ukraine drones and in being efficient in their use of their own drones , and counter ukraine using exactly their same tactics.
    Thank you for this message, as it gave me opportunity to put you on ignore.
    P.S. Your name along with  picture, should be in every dictionary under entry for idiot.

    X2

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    Post  Werewolf Mon May 16, 2022 11:40 am

    flamming_python wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:
    Good question.  I am unsure who its for because that doesn't spook the Russians.  Simply because Russians is one of the few with nuclear weapons that can wipe out all those nations off of the face of the earth.

    Is it for internal consumption?  I dunno if Polish people are that dumb to believe it (Alamo will have to be the one to tell us if his fellow compatriots believe it or not).
    Is it for NATO states themselves? They already drank the coolaid and does nothing to repeat nonsense
    Is it bravado to make oneself look strong? Probably but to who?

    There is a lot of nonsense and there may be a form of delusion that these people truly believe what they are saying.  I mean, they would get a wake up call if they tried but it is always bravado of these suits to say such stuff but they are brought down a peg by military commanders who tell them that their actions would start WWIII and that it could turn nuclear hot.

    I ultimately don't care

    It's time for Russia to start making plans to survive a nuclear war, and this would involve the evacuation of the civilian population to the countryside in advance and the stockpiling of food supplies

    Then start increasing the amount of tactical nuclear warheads in service

    Such talk even if it's just talk, must have consequences, and scary ones for the other side

    You are one fellow I must say. Never seen so much mood swings and evolution of character and mood anywhere. Not that the next day you can fall back to defeatism.

    Call me out if I am wrong, but wasn't it you, who said there will be never a nuclear exchange?

    I personally am very convinced that we will see that happening.
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    Post  Kiko Mon May 16, 2022 11:58 am

    The Russian military are negotiating at Azovstal, the DPR said 16.05.2022.

    DPR brigade commander Khodakovsky said that the Russian military are negotiating at Azovstal.

    MOSCOW, May 16 - RIA Novosti. The Russian military are negotiating with the Ukrainian side on the territory of Azovstal, said Alexander Khodakovsky, commander of the Vostok Brigade of the DPR.

    "Now a lively stage of negotiations is underway ... As it turned out, the group went out to represent the interests of a larger group that continues to be at Azovstal. Several of our servicemen, officers, along with the group that came out of the tunnel with white flags, went back with this as a group into the tunnel to conduct the negotiation process. We do not yet know the results of the negotiation process at the moment," Khodakovsky said on the air of the Rossiya 1 channel.

    He specified that a group of nine Ukrainian soldiers came out of one of the tunnels leading to the territory of Azovstal. "After we blocked areas that were significant for the enemy, the enemy found himself in a hopeless situation," Khodakovsky added.

    The official representative of the Russian Defense Ministry , Igor Konashenkov , announced on April 16 that the entire urban area of ​​Mariupol had been cleared of the Ukrainian army, foreign mercenaries and neo-Nazis from the Azov regiment (against whose militants a criminal case was initiated in Russia) . The remnants of the Ukrainian group are blocked at the Azovstal metallurgical plant.

    https://ria.ru/20220516/azovstal-1788773820.html

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    Post  klahtinen Mon May 16, 2022 12:06 pm

    lancelot wrote:... I think Putin's speech in the Munich security conference in 2007 is what really spooked them. That is about the time when the Finns started getting long range MLRS and ordered the air launched cruise missiles. The Finns attitudes also got worse after the Baltics joined NATO. ....
    ... I think Putin isn't playing it up because he has bigger fish to fry at this time. But I doubt it won't be considered eventually.
    Just consider this. There are only two countries in Europe with the JASSM and those are Poland and Finland.

    When I was a very very long time ago in the Reserve Officer School, we were informed that the enemy comes always and only from the east. What the politicians said in public was just rhetorics.

    Finnish newspapers, especially those belonging to Sanoma Media Group (the biggest media in Finland) have been a very long time been building a picture that Russia is a very bad rogue state ruled by thieves and mobsters. Finnish national broadcasting company YLE has been also doing that in a little smaller scale.

    Now a single public figure would not dare to say anything against NATO. Every day we read in papers and see on TV what the terrible crimes the Russians have again done in Ukraine. Ukrainian military is described as the last stand against barbaric herds.

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    Post  Regular Mon May 16, 2022 12:08 pm

    Kiko wrote:The Russian military are negotiating at Azovstal, the DPR said 16.05.2022.

    DPR brigade commander Khodakovsky said that the Russian military are negotiating at Azovstal.

    MOSCOW, May 16 - RIA Novosti. The Russian military are negotiating with the Ukrainian side on the territory of Azovstal, said Alexander Khodakovsky, commander of the Vostok Brigade of the DPR.

    "Now a lively stage of negotiations is underway ... As it turned out, the group went out to represent the interests of a larger group that continues to be at Azovstal. Several of our servicemen, officers, along with the group that came out of the tunnel with white flags, went back with this as a group into the tunnel to conduct the negotiation process. We do not yet know the results of the negotiation process at the moment," Khodakovsky said on the air of the Rossiya 1 channel.

    He specified that a group of nine Ukrainian soldiers came out of one of the tunnels leading to the territory of Azovstal. "After we blocked areas that were significant for the enemy, the enemy found himself in a hopeless situation," Khodakovsky added.

    The official representative of the Russian Defense Ministry ,  Igor Konashenkov , announced on April 16 that the entire urban area of ​​Mariupol had been cleared of the Ukrainian army, foreign mercenaries and neo-Nazis from the Azov regiment (against whose militants a criminal case was initiated in Russia) . The remnants of the Ukrainian group are blocked at the Azovstal metallurgical plant.

    https://ria.ru/20220516/azovstal-1788773820.html

    What's there to negotiate? Surrender or not? They have nothing to offer in exchange.

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    Post  ATLASCUB Mon May 16, 2022 12:14 pm

    The promise of sanctions relief?... lol1

    What is one more special, man to man, word deal with x leader to show good faith?

    The sad thing about it... you all know it's a 50/50 considering how dumb Putin/cadre have behaved over the last 8 years in the lead up to this disaster.

    Biggest drama ever.
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    Post  Vann7 Mon May 16, 2022 12:43 pm

    Regular wrote:
    Kiko wrote:The Russian military are negotiating at Azovstal, the DPR said 16.05.2022.

    DPR brigade commander Khodakovsky said that the Russian military are negotiating at Azovstal.

    MOSCOW, May 16 - RIA Novosti. The Russian military are negotiating with the Ukrainian side on the territory of Azovstal, said Alexander Khodakovsky, commander of the Vostok Brigade of the DPR.

    "Now a lively stage of negotiations is underway ... As it turned out, the group went out to represent the interests of a larger group that continues to be at Azovstal. Several of our servicemen, officers, along with the group that came out of the tunnel with white flags, went back with this as a group into the tunnel to conduct the negotiation process. We do not yet know the results of the negotiation process at the moment," Khodakovsky said on the air of the Rossiya 1 channel.

    He specified that a group of nine Ukrainian soldiers came out of one of the tunnels leading to the territory of Azovstal. "After we blocked areas that were significant for the enemy, the enemy found himself in a hopeless situation," Khodakovsky added.

    The official representative of the Russian Defense Ministry ,  Igor Konashenkov , announced on April 16 that the entire urban area of ​​Mariupol had been cleared of the Ukrainian army, foreign mercenaries and neo-Nazis from the Azov regiment (against whose militants a criminal case was initiated in Russia) . The remnants of the Ukrainian group are blocked at the Azovstal metallurgical plant.

    https://ria.ru/20220516/azovstal-1788773820.html

    What's there to negotiate? Surrender or not? They have nothing to offer in exchange.


    if i were to guess , the nazis could offer the foreigners alive in change of x number of the nazis allowed to leave to any place of their choice.  Apparently azov batallion ,somewhere was reported on social media ,  don't have good relations with kiev and they suspect , kiev could try to blame all wrong doing on them and kiev claims to be innocent on any wrong doing against civilians.  either case ,any Negotiations which ever they are , only make sense if the neo nazis trying to avoid any kind of punishment.  They a also can provide documents of all activities of foreigners in ukraine , happening in the bunker  and clarify any rumors of biolabs in mariupol or any other part of ukraine.
    all this neonazis for sure know a lot of things , secrets ,that kiev and those that abandoned them to their luck , would not like russia to know ,with evidence that could help russia to show at UN.  

    If neonazis offer negotiations is likely because azov fighters believe they have something that russia could be interested. My bet is there is a big chance the neonazis have very important information for russia , about kiev and other stuff , like weapons storage places under ground or other important bunkers in other cities . all this neonazis operated like special law authority that was above politicians and even military. and did not obeyed any orders of the president.
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    Post  Hole Mon May 16, 2022 1:15 pm

    sepheronx wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:
    Isos wrote:
    Arkanghelsk wrote:Ukraine can defeat Russia – NATO

    Secretary General believes that Russian military operation in Ukraine is not going the way it was planned

    Speaking to the reporters after informal meetings of the military bloc’s foreign ministers, Stoltenberg revealed that the main topics of the discussions were “strong support for Ukraine, the further strengthening of NATO’s deterrence and defense, and the longer-term implications of the war,” including the alliance’s future stance towards Russia.

    “Russia’s war in Ukraine is not going as Moscow had planned. They failed to take Kiev. They are pulling back from around Kharkiv, their major offensive in the Donbass has stalled. Russia is not achieving its strategic objectives,” Stoltenberg said.

    So this meant for average hohol warrior, I guess that they want them to keep fighting

    Nonetheless it probably means VSU will not surrender anytime soon

    I don't think even if Ukraine suffered 100k casualties that they would give up and that's saying something

    Yeah Stoltenberg is really famous for its books about military strategies and its background in military.

    Wait... no he isn't actually. He is just famous for his ability to swollow US spermatozoids.

    Stoltenberg as far as I am aware was never a soldier but a pencil pusher his entire career.

    What's funnier is that Polish clown who was saying that NATO will conquer St. Petersburg

    I don't get it. Who are they talking to? Who is this garbage intended to be heard and believed by?

    Is this yet more psychological warfare? Are they counting on Russians getting spooked? It's not going to work.

    Good question.  I am unsure who its for because that doesn't spook the Russians.  Simply because Russians is one of the few with nuclear weapons that can wipe out all those nations off of the face of the earth.

    Is it for internal consumption?  I dunno if Polish people are that dumb to believe it (Alamo will have to be the one to tell us if his fellow compatriots believe it or not).
    Is it for NATO states themselves? They already drank the coolaid and does nothing to repeat nonsense
    Is it bravado to make oneself look strong? Probably but to who?

    There is a lot of nonsense and there may be a form of delusion that these people truly believe what they are saying.  I mean, they would get a wake up call if they tried but it is always bravado of these suits to say such stuff but they are brought down a peg by military commanders who tell them that their actions would start WWIII and that it could turn nuclear hot.

    The sad answer is: they believe their own shit.

    They created a propaganda system over the span of decades, fed it with billions of $. First it was created to control the pupblic but with the standard
    for "leaders" in the west getting lower and lower by the year there came the time when the monster got out of control. Now you got the Bidens, Johnsons,
    Stoltenbergs and von der Leyens believing every word.

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    Post  Hole Mon May 16, 2022 1:26 pm

    ALAMO wrote:
    mnztr wrote:
    But now if they join NATO they will be doing the bidding of the US to confront Russia, and breaking their peace treaty obligation to be neutral. Does Russia just say MEH? Perhaps Russia should just get out and say they will plan for a special militray operation to counter Finnish actions.

    Hey men, I will tell you a secret!
    They ARE in NATO, de facto.
    A whole chain of command is compatible with NATO standards, communication is standardized.
    Weaponry is standardized.
    They participate in any major NATO training event, including - of course - Baltops. They share their own airbases, airspace, and territorial waters any moment NATO asks. NATO recon planes are flying along their coast wherever they want, passing the airspace at any location they want. Their recon ships are shadowing any Russian activity in the Baltics, transferring all the data down to the NATO decision centers just like any other NATO member.
    There is only one difference, that is a de iure membership, that put them under NATO collective protection.
    What makes them a perfect candidate for being a proxy, as Finland is fully capable to block the Russkies in the Peter for good.
    If I would have been a Russian decisionmaker, accepting them both into NATO as a formal event would have been my wet dream, as that blocks the possibility of them being used as proxies, and changes perfectly nothing on the scale. The Swedes won't be so trigger happy searching for Russian submarines, as they used to be for decades.
    Russia will soon reach the Romanian border, moving 500+km closer to London. US missile infrastructure located at 57th Airbase will be in range of Iskander and Bastion, making it just a nice target rather than a serious threat. They have reached deep into Europe, and will drastically change it's strategic location.
    I would say, that Russia will gain a very big strategic advantage, even if they will just stick to the seacoast. A formal accession of two small Scandinavian members is a gain for Russia, too.
    Sure they will bark as mad, because they can, and that is a part of political agenda for own population - but in real, they pray for that.
    Just the same way as in real they would be crazy happy if Poland would be stupid enough to occupy the western Ukraine.

    Sweden can no longer play the "neutral" card. Remember the incident with the south-korean ship that sunk a few years ago? The west wanted to blame North-Korea and send some "experts" from the US, Canada, Australia... and "neutral" Sweden. Because fit always looks good if you invite a "neutral" state. The Swedes would never back blindly what the americans say because they´re "neutral". Rolling Eyes
    Gone.
    But I doubt that the geniuses in Washington and Brussels know that they lost an asset (at least to fool the public and some random 3rd world country).

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    Post  Hole Mon May 16, 2022 1:30 pm

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #16  - Page 10 Fs0sh010
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #16  - Page 10 Fs3bd910
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #16  - Page 10 Fs3d3r10

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    Post  Hole Mon May 16, 2022 1:31 pm

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #16  - Page 10 Fs0p5l10
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #16  - Page 10 Fs3rjx10
    Ukro 2S7 after an air strike
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #16  - Page 10 Fszdnm10

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    Post  Hole Mon May 16, 2022 1:32 pm

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #16  - Page 10 Fs3bbc10
    Borisoglebsk-2 (?)
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #16  - Page 10 Fsywve11
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #16  - Page 10 Fszwzn11

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    Post  Hole Mon May 16, 2022 1:33 pm

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #16  - Page 10 Fs1cim10
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #16  - Page 10 Fs2dme10
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #16  - Page 10 Fs3yof10

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    Post  Serberus Mon May 16, 2022 1:36 pm

    Trench denazification
    https://t.me/DonbassDevushka/6961
    https://t.me/DonbassDevushka/6965

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    Post  JohninMK Mon May 16, 2022 1:59 pm

    Vann7 wrote:
    Regular wrote:
    Kiko wrote:The Russian military are negotiating at Azovstal, the DPR said 16.05.2022.

    DPR brigade commander Khodakovsky said that the Russian military are negotiating at Azovstal.

    MOSCOW, May 16 - RIA Novosti. The Russian military are negotiating with the Ukrainian side on the territory of Azovstal, said Alexander Khodakovsky, commander of the Vostok Brigade of the DPR.

    "Now a lively stage of negotiations is underway ... As it turned out, the group went out to represent the interests of a larger group that continues to be at Azovstal. Several of our servicemen, officers, along with the group that came out of the tunnel with white flags, went back with this as a group into the tunnel to conduct the negotiation process. We do not yet know the results of the negotiation process at the moment," Khodakovsky said on the air of the Rossiya 1 channel.

    He specified that a group of nine Ukrainian soldiers came out of one of the tunnels leading to the territory of Azovstal. "After we blocked areas that were significant for the enemy, the enemy found himself in a hopeless situation," Khodakovsky added.

    The official representative of the Russian Defense Ministry ,  Igor Konashenkov , announced on April 16 that the entire urban area of ​​Mariupol had been cleared of the Ukrainian army, foreign mercenaries and neo-Nazis from the Azov regiment (against whose militants a criminal case was initiated in Russia) . The remnants of the Ukrainian group are blocked at the Azovstal metallurgical plant.

    https://ria.ru/20220516/azovstal-1788773820.html

    What's there to negotiate? Surrender or not? They have nothing to offer in exchange.


    if i were to guess , the nazis could offer the foreigners alive in change of x number of the nazis allowed to leave to any place of their choice.  Apparently azov batallion ,somewhere was reported on social media ,  don't have good relations with kiev and they suspect , kiev could try to blame all wrong doing on them and kiev claims to be innocent on any wrong doing against civilians.  either case ,any Negotiations which ever they are , only make sense if the neo nazis trying to avoid any kind of punishment.  They a also can provide documents of all activities of foreigners in ukraine , happening in the bunker  and clarify any rumors of biolabs in mariupol or any other part of ukraine.
    all this neonazis for sure know a lot of things , secrets ,that kiev and those that abandoned them to their luck , would not like russia to know ,with evidence that could help russia to show at UN.  

    If neonazis offer negotiations is likely because azov fighters believe they have something that russia could be interested. My bet is there is a big chance the neonazis have very important information for russia , about kiev and other stuff , like weapons storage places under ground or other important bunkers in other cities . all this neonazis operated like special law authority that was above politicians and even military. and did not obeyed any orders of the president.

    I apologise to all of you who have Vann on ignore by linking him here but this time he makes sense.

    In addition to his thoughts there is also the potential psychological impact of a surrender at Azovstal, rather than dying as martyrs, on the defendants other cities like Karkov and Odessa, maybe even Kiev let alone smaller towns. If the hardest of hard bastards give up rather than die, why should they go to their deaths when they won't even be heroes or often have no grave? Maybe 're-education' in Russian camps for a few years, coming back to a by then prosperous 'Russian' Ukraine would have its attractions over death, especially with a probable shortage of males in the country.

    As part of being abandoned, the trapped Azov have been elevated to hyper hero status by Kiev and its backers who now definitely will not want to see them live.

    Finally, why waste more Russian/DNR/LDR/Chechen etc lives than is really necessary?

    If it generates surrenders all over the place so much the better, the Russian Army advance west could be almost unopposed. Only slowed down by the sorting out of the bad guys.

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    Post  Sprut-B Mon May 16, 2022 2:01 pm

    Exclusive footage from the Azovstal catacomb

    https://t.me/intelslava/28866

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