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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #13

    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Mon Apr 25, 2022 10:04 am

    flamming_python wrote:This 'agony' I fear may go on even until the last Ukrainian male is unable to fight, ...

    Which is precisely what is needed

    You don't solve Nazism by talking



    flamming_python wrote:...and they start fitting suicide belts to women and children....

    Good, sooner it happens the better

    Not only does it solve problems before they happen but it will finally cure average Russian from old commie delusions about "brotherly peoples"



    flamming_python wrote:There is nothing to 'win' in this war. Russia hasn't come up with anything clever so far...

    There's plenty to win just like in every single war ever fought

    And Russia doesn't need to come up with anything clever (trying to come up with something clever already cost quite a few Russian soldiers their testicles)

    Russia just needs the do the most simple and straightforward thing, fortunately they are slowly coming around to that



    flamming_python wrote:There is a total turn to the far-right and Banderization in the Ukraine now....

    Which makes situation much clearer and greatly simplifies problem solving

    Ukraine is Nazi infested shithole and on top of everything it's been oversized, overpopulated, overfunded and with overinflated opinion of itself

    All those problems are 8 decades overdue to be solved



    For the first time in it's history Russia is fighting a war with properly equiped military, with properly organized economy and with full support of it's population

    This has never happened before and it needs to be taken advantage of to the fullest

    Go slow and steady, take as much time as you need, be as methodical and thorough as possible and finish the job this time



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    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python Mon Apr 25, 2022 10:38 am

    ATLASCUB wrote:Weren't you crying about this operation ever taking place for 8 years straight? Full stop lobbying it should never happen etc... damage controlling non-stop along the official Kremlin line... even after the operation started, in an attempt to keep persona consistency you riled about evil, "bastard" Putin killing Ukrainians indiscriminately? Then perform a 180 when the sheeple didn't take the bait....and attempted to cast you out as a "defeatist"...... so now, to survive with this account it's all about letting the Kremlin do the right thing and being a "fake Russian patriot"...

    Lmao...I know you're trolling, and these folks, as dumb as they're, digest it, hook line and sinker...and this just what you do... flip flopping being part of the script to stay in the game, taking folks for a ride on a never ending, fruitless loop to make sure these sheeple stay as dumb as rock. lol1

    jocolor jocolor

    My opinion: Get a new burner account. This one is past due, too abused.


    It shouldn't have taken place. If it became necessary by basis of there being no other alternative on pain of the Ukraine preparing to take the Donbass/Crimea by force - then Putin has been outsmarted in the Ukraine by the globalists once again. He has nothing but mistakes to his name in this corner of the planet.
    Nevertheless even about that, we don't have any clear and cut facts for the moment. So let's leave it aside.

    The operation is on, there's no going back, whole West determined to destroy Russia by means of the Ukraine, Kiev regime willing to kill its own people to blame Russia or for 'collaborating', etc etc etc.

    Now what you should finally understand is that Kiev, under the curation of the Empire of Lies - performs psychological warfare more than anything else. Your knee-jerk reaction to these attacks; loss of faith in the Russian leadership, calls for a harder line, declaring war, taking out Zelensky, mobilization - is exactly what's being counted on.
    So you're actually acting as a tool for the Ukraine unbeknownst to yourself.
    Simply put - don't.
    These strikes change very little in the military-strategic calculations. And there really isn't much Kiev can do but this; its military is pinned around Kharkov, the Donbass and Nikolayev.
    Let the Russian leadership decide without any undue outside expertise from those such as yourself - how to respond. They could take out Zelensky or the other leadership, they could declare war, they could declare mobilization - or whatever else; but only if it's actually of benefit to do so. Not because some wise-asses think they know better and start to sow defeatism in the ranks if Moscow doesn't respond how they prefer. And it's not like I worship their judgement myself; not after the failure to shake down the Kiev regime in the first 2 weeks. But I would still trust their decisions over some internet nobody's.

    As for the strikes themselves, whatever form they took - they were military/Rosgvardia/FSB/whoever's fk-ups. They shouldn't have been allowed to happen. I trust any incompetents will be found, replaced, and lessons learned from it. But the actual damage done is basically only psychological, it doesn't have an impact on Kiev's dire situation on the front.

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    Arkanghelsk
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    Post  Arkanghelsk Mon Apr 25, 2022 10:50 am

    flamming_python wrote:Ideologies are just a function. An idealism. You can't make predictions based on them as old ones will disintegrate when no-one is left to promote them and new ones will come to the fore. And any ruling elites can change their ideologies as required.

    And they do have a real-world effect, they produce different societies, motivations of leaders and all this shit

    But ultimately you have to examine the world scientifically, through materialism. Take away all idealism; ideologies, nationalism, religion, etc..
    And what you are left with is just the world divided into different political-economic blocs and the elites that control them; and who all have the tendency to expand, make more copies of themselves, and compete for new markets and human resources - if necessary by violence. And then find out what their priorities are, geographies, resources.
    From there you can make predictions.
    Fault-line in Ukraine? Yeah sure - it's right in the middle between two rival blocs, and never managed to make a firm choice until the Nazi coup; but that didn't bring it stability.

    Not true at all, ideologies are more than just an idea, they are the spiritual destiny of people

    And today there is only one ideology, which is Liberalism

    Liberalism gave many good things to the world and won over Fascism and Communism

    Democracy and the ideas of enlightenment thinkers did not take hold because of only "materialism"

    That's vapid thinking and an oversimplification , the ideas of liberty, equality, and fraternity provided a framework to the western world, which gained a superior position relative to the world through colonialism, but also the reformation of colonial empires into liberal states and eventually knocked communism down and spread into the states that were in the communist bloc

    Liberalism won over not just because of Huntingtons theory on application of violence

    Although that's a big reason why anglo saxons did succeed in large

    Liberalism itself offered the world a structure and a framework for governance to happen over people, and it won over Communism and Fascism

    Liberalism provided a useful way for self determination of majorities

    But in the post modern era, technology has destroyed said concept

    The majorities are ruled by minorities, and freedom of press, freedom of speech , and general freedoms are taken away to emancipate the oppressed, is it a concerted effort of only transnational corporations, opportunistic governments and hidden interests? Or is it the contradiction of an ideology which met with internet and technology and birthed a world nightmare?

    We arrive at a point where Liberalism has passed its own maxim as a liberation ideology

    And became the very tool which oppressed and subjugated other people's and cultures by masking colonialism and the theft of other nations resources, under the guise of universal human rights

    So the call to multipolar world is two fold, it is a reaction to the degradation of Liberalism,

    And calls for the replacement of Liberalism with either an entirely new ideology

    One that is not based in racial or national supremacy, neither class consciousness and class warfare, and neither democracy

    Russian thinking doesn't seek a political solution

    But a consensus which can be built around identity of different peoples that come from anthropological roots and origins

    In multipolar world, there is confusion in which many think that fascism or communism are being brought back to challenge Liberalism

    It's not true at all, a new type of governance is required which respects the distinct identity of different nations

    Because that is where we find ourselves today

    The very identity of mankind is being questioned in the post modern era

    So therefore , the Russian world is an adequate response to the post modernist liberals

    Not quite an ideology, but leading towards one centered around self determination

    Live and let live, for sure, but bomb the ones who call into question your identity




    caveat emptor
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    Post  caveat emptor Mon Apr 25, 2022 10:51 am

    I'm against going after leadership of Ukraine. But there are few things that can be eaaily done, which are not, and that make me scratch my head. According to Rybar, latest train composition brought to Kharkov Zuzana-2 SPA and Pions among other things.
    Kremenchug refinery can still produce 7000 tons/d of oil derivatives.
    Those two things would speed up end of this war and Russia would lose less soldiers.

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    crod
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    Post  crod Mon Apr 25, 2022 10:57 am

    flamming_python wrote:
    RTN wrote:Russian forces are facing sever difficulty keeping BTGs/Unit supplied over 100km from a railhead.

    Russian forces haven't been able to occupy any position >100km from a railhead, that they haven't had to retreat from within a few weeks. The only examples of positions further than that were the positions around Kyiv (both to NW and NE) and they retreated from both.

    Even with forward stockpiling.... Russian forces seem unable to go beyond 100km.

    If your forward stockpile is 100km from your railhead.... that doesn't ease the pressure on your trucks at all. You'd need one set of "a BTG worth of trucks" to keep supply for "one BTG" to the "interim base" and another to take it from there to the "front line".

    It's pretty clear that the Russian withdrawal from around Kiev had nothing to do with any supply lines

    Nor the lack of any fast-tempo Russian advance now

    Absolutely no evidence that Russian forces have any problem with ammo, fuel, food, toilet paper or whatever

    Certainly no shortage of cannon fodder that's for damn sure.

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    Arkanghelsk
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    Post  Arkanghelsk Mon Apr 25, 2022 11:12 am

    There is a metaphysical component to the war thats for sure

    If it was executed on principle of efficiency and economy , Zelensky would have been killed in the first week

    We would have leveled the civilian buildings and brought death and destruction to all of Ukraine

    We would have crippled their infrastructure and gone after civilian targets making life so unbearable

    That they would have crumbled , we would have fought the war as Americans did in Iraq

    But there is an esoteric component which spared the people of Ukraine and even the leadership

    There is still some part of the state that the Kremlin is wanting to salvage

    So what you see is not what you get

    Killing the leadership and leveling Ukraine would have been a green zone strategy, which then proceeded into insurgency war

    But the Kremlin seems to be fighting this war in a bizarre way, which can only be attributed to an objective that lies outside of pure military calculations

    Somehow they believe that they can push Kiev to a grand concession

    And the British and American reporting this week indicates that the Kremlin is slowly moving towards that's goal

    But we will see

    The bryansk explosion, moskva, belgorod, airfield strikes in kherson, POW executions and torture, are signs that the Kremlin a) is willing to take in on the chin and b) feels it has enough support that taking civilian and military casualties will feed its narrative , as it shapes the process of introducing the Russian world into Ukraine, and by extension even in Russia

    For them its galvanized a patriotic reaction from the population, taking Putin from 67% to 80+% popularity

    Call it cynical, but that's the world we live in


    Last edited by Arkanghelsk on Mon Apr 25, 2022 11:17 am; edited 1 time in total
    Krepost
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    Post  Krepost Mon Apr 25, 2022 11:13 am

    5 Russian BDKs at port.
    4 Ropuchas and the Peter Morgunov.
    Not much use these days as the naval infantry is already on dry soil.
    They contributed greatly in the liberation of Mariopol.
    Now they are proceeding north (by road of course) towards new battlefields.

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    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python Mon Apr 25, 2022 12:09 pm

    Arkanghelsk wrote:Not true at all, ideologies are more than just an idea, they are the spiritual destiny of people

    And today there is only one ideology, which is Liberalism

    Liberalism gave many good things to the world and won over Fascism and Communism

    Democracy and the ideas of enlightenment thinkers did not take hold because of only "materialism"

    That's vapid thinking and an oversimplification , the ideas of liberty, equality, and fraternity provided a framework to the western world, which gained a superior position relative to the world through colonialism, but also the reformation of colonial empires into liberal states and eventually knocked communism down and spread into the states that were in the communist bloc

    Liberalism won over not just because of Huntingtons theory on application of violence

    Although that's a big reason why anglo saxons did succeed in large

    Liberalism itself offered the world a structure and a framework for governance to happen over people, and it won over Communism and Fascism

    Liberalism provided a useful way for self determination of majorities

    But in the post modern era, technology has destroyed said concept

    The majorities are ruled by minorities, and freedom of press, freedom of speech , and general freedoms are taken away to emancipate the oppressed, is it a concerted effort of only transnational corporations, opportunistic governments and hidden interests? Or is it the contradiction of an ideology which met with internet and technology and birthed a world nightmare?

    We arrive at a point where Liberalism has passed its own maxim as a liberation ideology

    And became the very tool which oppressed and subjugated other people's and cultures by masking colonialism and the theft of other nations resources,  under the guise of universal human rights

    So the call to multipolar world is two fold, it is a reaction to the degradation of Liberalism,

    And calls for the replacement of Liberalism with either an entirely new ideology

    One that is not based in racial or national supremacy, neither class consciousness and class warfare, and neither democracy

    Russian thinking doesn't seek a political solution

    But a consensus which can be built around identity of different peoples that come from anthropological roots and origins

    In multipolar world, there is confusion in which many think that fascism or communism are being brought back to challenge Liberalism

    It's not true at all, a new type of governance is required which respects the distinct identity of different nations

    Because that is where we find ourselves today

    The very identity of mankind is being questioned in the post modern era

    So therefore , the Russian world is an adequate response to the post modernist liberals

    Not quite an ideology, but leading towards one centered around self determination

    Live and let live, for sure, but bomb the ones who call into question your identity

    What you're missing is why it is Russia that is challenging liberalism. It's not because of its innate spirituality, destiny or some such.

    Rather because it's a big country with a lot of potential but couldn't agree with Uncle Sam about being an equal partner. That's pretty much it. So it by default remained in the camp of the rest of the world, and this rest of world slowly started to coalesce, but was challenged, and so now the search begins for a new ideology that unite Russia's own population and crucially - appeal to those in Europe and the West who reject liberalism. This is why ideologies of different blocs end up as an opposing duality.

    And every nation, if assumed to be isolated (in practice this isn't generally so, most nations group up into blocs) will develop some national idea or ideology that's specific to its ethnic/religious makeup. If it's a multinational country then it may try to unite by religion such as Pakistan, Iran or the Taliban in Afghanistan. If it's a multinational, multireligious country such as Russia then in the past socialism was a good fit (although socialism in its original inception wasn't an ideology), and now Eurasianism.

    So this is a purely materialistic explanation I'm giving, about the evolution and births of ideologies. Like I said, ultimately they're a function of great power competition and geopolitics.
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    Post  mnztr Mon Apr 25, 2022 12:44 pm

    LMFS wrote:
    mnztr wrote:That is just physical location and mass.

    That is "just" the reason why the West tries to finish them off for some centuries now... just Russian location and size makes them a (if not THE) prime intrinsic world power

    Not really true. During the years of Soviet isolation, the rest of the world got on just fine with not much from the east bloc or China. It was fine. No nation is indispensible.
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    Post  mnztr Mon Apr 25, 2022 12:53 pm

    Hole wrote:

    Who gives a shit about the number of people? The 800 million in th west produce mostly hot air. The 150 million in Russia sit om top the largest base of commodities and energy supplies in the world + the largest farm lands and forests. And they produce such thinks as Sarmat, Tsirkon and Poseidon. That matters.


    Lots of places have commodities. Canada, USA, Latin america, africa, Australia, Asia. All loaded with stuff. Stratigic nuclear weapons just sit in silos until they are obsolete. How does that make peoples lives better or more interesting? if the west was so unproductive, why do so many people wanna come to the west? Population, marketsize, commercial framework and infrastructure. This is what builds wealth today. Look at China, not gifted with many of the things you mention, yet clearly at least #2 and headed rapidly to #1 in wealth and power.
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    Post  Dr.Snufflebug Mon Apr 25, 2022 1:06 pm

    Isn't there a better suited thread for these philosophical discussions?

    Anyway, regarding the Bryansk fires. Nobody has reported seeing or hearing any missiles or helicopters. The fires apparently started in diesel tanks at the "Druzhba" depot and at the adjacent military depot v/ch 55443.

    I think sabotage is most likely.

    Few days ago, an IED was found and defused near Bryansk, on the railway between Snezhetskaya and Beloberezhka, which is just a few kilometers from where these fires took place.
    https://m.newsbryansk.ru/fn_933547.html

    So my guess is that this is a job for the FSB.

    Also, the city had an elevated terrorist threat warning from April 11th, ironically due to be downgraded today:
    https://news.nashbryansk.ru/2022/04/25/routine/v-bryanskoy-oblasti-25-aprelya/


    Last edited by Dr.Snufflebug on Mon Apr 25, 2022 1:26 pm; edited 3 times in total

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    Post  lancelot Mon Apr 25, 2022 1:07 pm

    The West has destroyed most of its industrial capacity. It can theoretically be rebuilt but will probably take a decade.
    And there is no evidence there is a serious effort by them to do this. Biden's Build Back Better or not.
    Just consider what happened to Britain in WW2 after it was cut off from its colonies. They had the factories but the raw materials supply stopped.
    So they had to buy most of their equipment from the US and Canada.
    Today you would see much worse since the West does not even have the factories. They have IP and do high level design. They try to control enough of the technology they remain on top and other nations cannot compete at the high end. But China and Russia keep trying to break out of that box and they have never quite figured out how to put them back in the box. The latest attempt was probably Obama's TPP deal and similar deals in Europe where the US would extract rents via patent or copyright licensing while other people did the manufacturing. And those nations were basically supposed to accept transnational courts which would be able to make rulings against nation states with regards to patent and copyright law. Well Trump killed that.
    Once Trump killed that he basically knifed the last remaining hope of the globalists to put the whole world under their thumb. A global economy where corporations would dominate even the largest nation states.

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    Post  ALAMO Mon Apr 25, 2022 1:14 pm

    flamming_python wrote:
    This 'agony' I fear may go on even until the last Ukrainian male is unable to fight, and they start fitting suicide belts to women and children. There is nothing to 'win' in this war. Russia hasn't come up with anything clever so far
    There is a total turn to the far-right and Banderization in the Ukraine now.
    It's inaccurate to say it was like this over the past years; since the end of the 1st war they moved the extremism and many of the extremists to under the surface or at most to the Donbass as it all interfered with society and public image. But all this stuff is rapidly being resurfaced now and given complete reign over the country.

    Oh, the wrong pill, again?
    You still didn't answer about the alternative.
    What alternative had Russia, after 8 years of continuous struggle putting Ukraine into political resolve?
    You play with the cards you have, not the ones you would like to get.
    404 was turned into Banderastan already, banderization was proceeding rapidly, and each day they would be getting stronger only.
    It was not the Russian invasion that turned it on.
    They are zombified already, 8 years is a whole elementary school period. There is a generation raised with the daily load of bullshit applied. A few pages back, you have a cartoon presented to the school kids. Take a look at the school books they have there, how are the classes arranged, and what is being presented to the young ones.

    There is a funny YT channel with a guy who trolls Ukrs on chat roulette :

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCuK31IQrgoL9J-wrzBOkdaw

    Pacan is fantastic, but aside from a good dose of humor, listen carefully to his interlocutors. Sure he picked the "best" ones, still, it gives some impression.
    We might have loughted hearing that Jesus was a Ukrainian, or that they have invented the wheel, etc.
    But in reality, it is not funny.
    It is a creation of a nation based on lies. Tons of them are applied daily.
    Lies and the worst form of nationalism, instructing them not on how to improve their county, but rather how to destroy the others.
    They is no more Ukraine. There is Galichina and occupied territories that must be set free. What will be the fate of the remaining Galichina, is another story. And frankly speaking, I don't give a fuk.

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    Post  sundoesntrise Mon Apr 25, 2022 1:25 pm

    flamming_python wrote:

    It shouldn't have taken place. If it became necessary by basis of there being no other alternative on pain of the Ukraine preparing to take the Donbass/Crimea by force - then Putin has been outsmarted in the Ukraine by the globalists once again. He has nothing but mistakes to his name in this corner of the planet.
    Nevertheless even about that, we don't have any clear and cut facts for the moment. So let's leave it aside.

    The operation is on, there's no going back, whole West determined to destroy Russia by means of the Ukraine, Kiev regime willing to kill its own people to blame Russia or for 'collaborating', etc etc etc.

    Now what you should finally understand is that Kiev, under the curation of the Empire of Lies - performs psychological warfare more than anything else. Your knee-jerk reaction to these attacks; loss of faith in the Russian leadership, calls for a harder line, declaring war, taking out Zelensky, mobilization - is exactly what's being counted on.
    So you're actually acting as a tool for the Ukraine unbeknownst to yourself.
    Simply put - don't.
    These strikes change very little in the military-strategic calculations. And there really isn't much Kiev can do but this; its military is pinned around Kharkov, the Donbass and Nikolayev.
    Let the Russian leadership decide without any undue outside expertise from those such as yourself - how to respond. They could take out Zelensky or the other leadership, they could declare war, they could declare mobilization - or whatever else; but only if it's actually of benefit to do so. Not because some wise-asses think they know better and start to sow defeatism in the ranks if Moscow doesn't respond how they prefer. And it's not like I worship their judgement myself; not after the failure to shake down the Kiev regime in the first 2 weeks. But I would still trust their decisions over some internet nobody's.

    As for the strikes themselves, whatever form they took - they were military/Rosgvardia/FSB/whoever's fk-ups. They shouldn't have been allowed to happen. I trust any incompetents will be found, replaced, and lessons learned from it. But the actual damage done is basically only psychological, it doesn't have an impact on Kiev's dire situation on the front.

    Geopolitics is a zero sum game wherein the winner dictates the terms and the loser, well, the loser does not.

    Hence what Russia needs is a winner mentality, and a winning strategy to come to that. Fiddling around with your dick in your hand in the Donbass in month 3 with now things INSIDE Russia going BOOM isn't exactly convincing anyone on world stage that is not sky-high on the Kremlin dope. This is a one time opportunity, you aren't going to get any second chances. That's also why you are now seeing the talk about multipolarity 'dry up', and unconvincing Kremlin apologeticism like the post above take off in earnest. Feels like the summer of 2014 again.

    People, as do animals bytheway, unconsciously notice who is the Alpha in the pack. Spoiler alert: by letting bombing campaigns in your own country go unpunished it ain't exactly Russia. Especially when the perp is a third grade military nation that should have been squashed 50 days ago already (but wasn't because of 9D chess, lol)

    I have to tell you that many of your recent posts reek of 'TRUST THE PLAN. Two more weeks. If you fight back, they win' Q-tier humanist/liberal weakling nonsense. This reddit-tier wall-of-text type response is supposed to re-assurre the parish (and poster himself) of impending victory and blow smoke up into people's rear end. It's just high end propaganda really.

    Bottom line is that weakness invites aggression. Hence you don't look weak. Right now Russia is looking terribly weak. Unable to achieve a quick victory in Ukraine, unable to protect its flagship missile cruiser from NATO attack, unable to respond to continuous re-armament by hostile forces, Berdyansk, Kherson Airbase, Belgorod etc. etc.

    Kremlin grandpas need to understand what is at play here, and act accordingly to it. Without constraint about 'partners', 'brotherly nations', the UN (LOLWHUT??!!!) or any other fallout. The nuclear sanctions card has been used already - what are they so scared off?

    The provocations keep following up in ever quicker succession. (((They))) have so many cards to play, in every corner of the world. The RAND papers speak about it in great detail - you can find those blueprints on Russia online within the minute if you want to. No serious world player would ever accept itself into the role of re-actionary policy making. Yet that is exactly what Russia is doing right now - in its own backyard no less. This is keeping basic frame, or better said lack thereof.

    You must have noticed too.

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    Post  Dr.Snufflebug Mon Apr 25, 2022 1:47 pm

    Cruise missile volleys again, this morning. Less than 12 hours since the last ones. More infrastructure targeted in Rovno, Vinnitsia, Cherkasy.

    Wonder if the Cherkasy railway bridge over Dnepr is a target. They haven't gone for those obvious bottlenecks yet, for some reason.

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    Post  Erk Mon Apr 25, 2022 1:59 pm


    Some recent footage from around the Azovstal plant.


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    Post  sundoesntrise Mon Apr 25, 2022 2:41 pm

    caveat emptor wrote:I'm against going after leadership of Ukraine. But there are few things that can be eaaily done, which are not, and that make me scratch my head. According to Rybar, latest train composition brought to Kharkov Zuzana-2 SPA and Pions among other things.
    Kremenchug refinery can still produce 7000 tons/d of oil derivatives.
    Those two things would speed up end of this war and Russia would lose less soldiers.

    Let me ask some additional questions.

    Who owns Kremenchug? And who will profit from it once under Russian patronage?

    Same goes for Azovstal. Why the insane restraint entering/damaging this compound whilst apartment blocks, heck entire city districts were simply leveled without any consideration?

    I don't have the answer to these questions but just like the MIC and countless other organisation's profiting from the 'greasing' have a certain interest in policy making in the US, the same might be true in Russia.
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    Post  flamming_python Mon Apr 25, 2022 2:46 pm

    sundoesntrise wrote:
    Geopolitics is a zero sum game wherein the winner dictates the terms and the loser, well, the loser does not.

    Hence what Russia needs is a winner mentality, and a winning strategy to come to that. Fiddling around with your dick in your hand in the Donbass in month 3 with now things INSIDE Russia going BOOM isn't exactly convincing anyone on world stage that is not sky-high on the Kremlin dope. This is a one time opportunity, you aren't going to get any second chances. That's also why you are now seeing the talk about multipolarity 'dry up', and unconvincing Kremlin apologeticism like the post above take off in earnest. Feels like the summer of 2014 again.

    People, as do animals bytheway, unconsciously notice who is the Alpha in the pack. Spoiler alert: by letting bombing campaigns in your own country go unpunished it ain't exactly Russia. Especially when the perp is a third grade military nation that should have been squashed 50 days ago already (but wasn't because of 9D chess, lol)

    I have to tell you that many of your recent posts reek of 'TRUST THE PLAN. Two more weeks. If you fight back, they win' Q-tier humanist/liberal weakling nonsense. This reddit-tier wall-of-text type response is supposed to re-assurre the parish (and poster himself) of impending victory and blow smoke up into people's rear end. It's just high end propaganda really.

    Bottom line is that weakness invites aggression. Hence you don't look weak. Right now Russia is looking terribly weak. Unable to achieve a quick victory in Ukraine, unable to protect its flagship missile cruiser from NATO attack, unable to respond to continuous re-armament by hostile forces, Berdyansk, Kherson Airbase, Belgorod etc. etc.

    Kremlin grandpas need to understand what is at play here, and act accordingly to it. Without constraint about 'partners', 'brotherly nations', the UN (LOLWHUT??!!!) or any other fallout. The nuclear sanctions card has been used already - what are they so scared off?

    The provocations keep following up in ever quicker succession. (((They))) have so many cards to play, in every corner of the world. The RAND papers speak about it in great detail - you can find those blueprints on Russia online within the minute if you want to. No serious world player would ever accept itself into the role of re-actionary policy making. Yet that is exactly what Russia is doing right now - in its own backyard no less. This is keeping basic frame, or better said lack thereof.

    You must have noticed too.

    It's not a case of 'trust the plan'. We don't control whatever plan, but the war is in motion anyway - so don't be a tool and play right into the enemy's hands. The West is trying to destroy Russia via the Ukraine and psychological methods of war are at the forefront; create panic, sow disillusion, destroy faith in the leadership, create anger and calls for bloody revenge, cheap heroin injection of morale for their own troops, etc..
    Already I read of some panicky posts from Bryansk residents. Someone needs to explain to them, preferably Podolyaka, how psychological warfare works. In fact I think he already has. Once you understand it then you can just recognize these pathetic attempts for what they are, together with the stupid phonecalls about fake deaths, the torture of POWs, and so on. The pathetic actions of a doomed clique of criminals.

    Believe me, I have no illusions, and I have no blind faith in the leadership. But understand that this is basically all Kiev can do - exactly these sorts of headline-gripping attacks for the newspapers, but ones that have questionable military value. Hence why they're doing it. What they can't do is change the situation on the ground - Russia is dictating it. If, whatever the plan happens to be, requires some more patience - well then so be it.

    In 1991 Saddam Hussein launched SCUDs at Israel in an attempt at bringing them into the Gulf War. You know what the US told Israel? Don't react to these provocations, and play into Saddam Hussein's war aims. The US was completely correct; Israel striking back could have mobilized wider Arab support for Saddam Hussein and by extension against the US too.

    Here Russia is doing fine as it is in taking out fuel depots and arms warehouses itself. It just needs to secure it's own better. A job for the relevant agencies, they better up their game. But it's not an indication that the sky is falling and the Kremlin needs to fundamentally change their strategy, conduct some revenge attacks, show who's boss or whatever.
    The warning has already been issued that decision-makes in the Ukraine will be targeted. Maybe outside the Ukraine via assassinations. This I take to mean not Zelensky and co., but certainly his generals and strategists. But this will be done ONLY when opportune. No time-frame has been issued for such strikes, so let the relevant people do their jobs without undue criticism.

    And that's all I'm prepared to say on the matter. Keep calm and carry on, don't scathingly react to provocations. If they're so desperate so as to resort to these cheap shots, then the strategy is working.


    Last edited by flamming_python on Mon Apr 25, 2022 2:59 pm; edited 4 times in total
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    Post  ALAMO Mon Apr 25, 2022 2:51 pm

    sundoesntrise wrote:
    caveat emptor wrote:I'm against going after leadership of Ukraine. But there are few things that can be eaaily done, which are not, and that make me scratch my head. According to Rybar, latest train composition brought to Kharkov Zuzana-2 SPA and Pions among other things.
    Kremenchug refinery can still produce 7000 tons/d of oil derivatives.
    Those two things would speed up end of this war and Russia would lose less soldiers.

    Let me ask some additional questions.

    Who owns Kremenchug? And who will profit from it once under Russian patronage?

    Same goes for Azovstal. Why the insane restraint entering/damaging this compound whilst apartment blocks, heck entire city districts were simply leveled without any consideration?

    I don't have the answer to these questions but just like the MIC and countless other organisation's profiting from the 'greasing' have a certain interest in policy making in the US, the same might be true in Russia.

    Even cared to watch any material from the Azovstal area?
    It is a Stalingrad.
    Russkies are very humble at targeting infrastructure because opposite to US/NATO led campaigns, they do care about the post-war status and condition of the territory. And it's population. Obviously, they don't want to have 0.5 mln children's blood on their hands.

    And for a while, Ukros are mixing transport lorries with civilian trains. Again, Russia is not NATO, they won't bomb the train full of people Jugoslavia style.

    Nobody performed operation of this scale, with an enemy of similar strength and condition. Sit and watch.

    flamming_python wrote:
    In 1991 Saddam Hussein launched SCUDs at Israel in an attempt at bringing them into the Gulf War. You know what the US told Israel? Don't react to these provocations, and play into Saddam Hussein's war aims. The US was completely correct; Israel striking back could have mobilized wider Arab support for Saddam Hussein and by extension against the US too.

    Here Russia is doing fine as it is in taking out fuel depots and arms warehouses of its own. It just needs to secure it's own better. A job for the relevant agencies, they better up their game. But it's not an indication that the sky is falling and the Kremlin needs to fundamentally change their strategy.

    And that's all I'm prepared to say on the matter. Keep calm and carry on, don't scathingly react to provocations. If they're so desperate so as to resort to these cheap shots, then the strategy is working.

    Well, the Israelis could play that ice cold, because the coalition was already castrating Saddam. There would be no gain in Israel joining the show.
    As far as I know, nobody was going to do the same to Ukros, opposite!

    The funny part is, that it is the MSM trying to picture Russian actions as a kind of revenge because that would make them unprofessional.
    This is how all the regular attacks were portraited after sinking the Moskva.


    Last edited by ALAMO on Mon Apr 25, 2022 2:59 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Post  Sujoy Mon Apr 25, 2022 2:58 pm

    West has now accepted that Russia is making gains in Ukraine. So they have now reinvented the info war by including hawkish fearmongering. They are now claiming that Russia making gains in Ukraine would lead them to invade Lithuania, and thus declare war on NATO

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    Post  ALAMO Mon Apr 25, 2022 3:03 pm

    Sujoy wrote:West has now accepted that Russia is making gains in Ukraine. So they have now reinvented the info war by including hawkish fearmongering. They are now claiming that Russia making gains in Ukraine would lead them to invade Lithuania, and thus declare war on NATO

    Russkies are invading the Baltic barking Yorkshire terriers daily basis, for the last 15 years or so.
    There was not a single week, without a random tabloid informing his audience, how in detail Russkies could invade because the invasion is obvious.

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    Post  Dr.Snufflebug Mon Apr 25, 2022 3:05 pm

    There is one CCTV video supposedly showing the moment one of the Bryansk fires started, and the explosion is preceded by a whining noise, like an incoming missile/rocket.

    If it is indeed from Bryansk, then it definitely was an "external" attack.

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    Post  ALAMO Mon Apr 25, 2022 3:13 pm

    Dr.Snufflebug wrote:There is one CCTV video supposedly showing the moment one of the Bryansk fires started, and the explosion is preceded by a whining noise, like an incoming missile/rocket.

    If it is indeed from Bryansk, then it definitely was an "external" attack.

    Maybe it is a good time to hit "decision centers", that would be an US embassy in Kiev Laughing
    Hey, we had old maps only!
    Chinese will like that Laughing

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    Post  sundoesntrise Mon Apr 25, 2022 3:13 pm

    flamming_python wrote:
    sundoesntrise wrote:
    Geopolitics is a zero sum game wherein the winner dictates the terms and the loser, well, the loser does not.

    Hence what Russia needs is a winner mentality, and a winning strategy to come to that. Fiddling around with your dick in your hand in the Donbass in month 3 with now things INSIDE Russia going BOOM isn't exactly convincing anyone on world stage that is not sky-high on the Kremlin dope. This is a one time opportunity, you aren't going to get any second chances. That's also why you are now seeing the talk about multipolarity 'dry up', and unconvincing Kremlin apologeticism like the post above take off in earnest. Feels like the summer of 2014 again.

    People, as do animals bytheway, unconsciously notice who is the Alpha in the pack. Spoiler alert: by letting bombing campaigns in your own country go unpunished it ain't exactly Russia. Especially when the perp is a third grade military nation that should have been squashed 50 days ago already (but wasn't because of 9D chess, lol)

    I have to tell you that many of your recent posts reek of 'TRUST THE PLAN. Two more weeks. If you fight back, they win' Q-tier humanist/liberal weakling nonsense. This reddit-tier wall-of-text type response is supposed to re-assurre the parish (and poster himself) of impending victory and blow smoke up into people's rear end. It's just high end propaganda really.

    Bottom line is that weakness invites aggression. Hence you don't look weak. Right now Russia is looking terribly weak. Unable to achieve a quick victory in Ukraine, unable to protect its flagship missile cruiser from NATO attack, unable to respond to continuous re-armament by hostile forces, Berdyansk, Kherson Airbase, Belgorod etc. etc.

    Kremlin grandpas need to understand what is at play here, and act accordingly to it. Without constraint about 'partners', 'brotherly nations', the UN (LOLWHUT??!!!) or any other fallout. The nuclear sanctions card has been used already - what are they so scared off?

    The provocations keep following up in ever quicker succession. (((They))) have so many cards to play, in every corner of the world. The RAND papers speak about it in great detail - you can find those blueprints on Russia online within the minute if you want to. No serious world player would ever accept itself into the role of re-actionary policy making. Yet that is exactly what Russia is doing right now - in its own backyard no less. This is keeping basic frame, or better said lack thereof.

    You must have noticed too.

    It's not a case of 'trust the plan'. We don't control whatever plan, but the war is in motion anyway - so don't be a tool and play right into the enemy's hands. The West is trying to destroy Russia via the Ukraine and psychological methods of war are at the forefront; create panic, sow disillusion, destroy faith in the leadership, create anger and calls for bloody revenge, cheap heroin injection of morale for their own troops, etc..
    Already I read of some panicky posts from Bryansk residents. Someone needs to explain to them, preferably Podolyaka, how psychological warfare works. In fact I think he already has. Once you understand it then you can just recognize these pathetic attempts for what they are, together with the stupid phonecalls about fake deaths, the torture of POWs, and so on. The pathetic actions of a doomed clique of criminals.

    Believe me, I have no illusions, and I have no blind faith in the leadership. But understand that this is basically all Kiev can do - exactly these sorts of headline-gripping attacks for the newspapers, but ones that have questionable military value. Hence why they're doing it. What they can't do is change the situation on the ground - Russia is dictating it. If, whatever the plan happens to be, requires some more patience - well then so be it.

    In 1991 Saddam Hussein launched SCUDs at Israel in an attempt at bringing them into the Gulf War. You know what the US told Israel? Don't react to these provocations, and play into Saddam Hussein's war aims. The US was completely correct; Israel striking back could have mobilized wider Arab support for Saddam Hussein and by extension against the US too.

    Here Russia is doing fine as it is in taking out fuel depots and arms warehouses itself. It just needs to secure it's own better. A job for the relevant agencies, they better up their game. But it's not an indication that the sky is falling and the Kremlin needs to fundamentally change their strategy, conduct some revenge attacks, show who's boss or whatever.
    The warning has already been issued that decision-makes in the Ukraine will be targeted. Maybe outside the Ukraine via assassinations. This I take to mean not Zelensky and co., but certainly his generals and strategists. But this will be done ONLY when opportune. No time-frame has been issued for such strikes, so let the relevant people do their jobs without undue criticism.

    And that's all I'm prepared to say on the matter. Keep calm and carry on, don't scathingly react to provocations. If they're so desperate so as to resort to these cheap shots, then the strategy is working.

    Talmudic pilpul in optima forma. In what way did you address the points that I just made? Just a slightly different rehearsed script from your previous posts. Argueing by attrition.

    A lack of deterrents leads to perceived weakness. Perceived weakness leads to increased provocations. Increased provocations lead to loss of face and escalation etc.

    Hence you stop that cycle somewhere, preferable in the beginning.

    This is basic stuff. But hey I just heard that on Day 60 mighty Russian army just advanced 5 km in the direction of Kramatorsk (10s of kms from the loc) so it's all good.

    Always remember, some people are here to find out the truth, others are here to sell you a narrative.

    EDIT: had to laugh about your Israel remark though. All of the sandpit wars were for the benefit of Israel, and on the US's expenses. In the 90s and 00s Tel Aviv basically ran US foreign policy.

    Those missiles were just a little punitative thank you.

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    Post  flamming_python Mon Apr 25, 2022 3:33 pm

    sundoesntrise wrote:
    Talmudic pilpul in optima forma. In what way did you address the points that I just made? Just a slightly different rehearsed script from your previous posts. Argueing by attrition.

    A lack of deterrents leads to perceived weakness. Perceived weakness leads to increased provocations. Increased provocations lead to loss of face and escalation etc.

    Hence you stop that cycle somewhere, preferable in the beginning.

    This is basic stuff. But hey I just heard that on Day 60 mighty Russian army just advanced 5 km in the direction of Kramatorsk (10s of kms from the loc) so it's all good.

    Always remember, some people are here to find out the truth, others are here to sell you a narrative.

    EDIT: had to laugh about your Israel remark though. All of the sandpit wars were for the benefit of Israel, and on the US's expenses. In the 90s and 00s Tel Aviv basically ran US foreign policy.

    Those missiles were just a little punitative thank you.

    No we just have a fundamentally different apparaisal of the situation

    I assume that they will continue to escalate regardless of what Russia does or doesn't do, or how many messages it sends. Targeting command staff and centers is something that should be happening anyway and I'm confident they are (as in the case where a Kinzhal took out an underground command centre in the Donbass). It's just a reasonable proposition that the main command officers are on NATO territory, or in the basements of dense apartment blocs in Kiev I'm sure.

    Sooner or later Russia should may face more severe attacks, such as ones on nuclear power plants, anthrax in the drinking water, arson against factories, targeted killings of Russian intelligence and other officers off-duty on Russian territory. It's war, some things like this will always get through. And they will stoop to this sooner or later, as more of their armed forces are taken out and more territory is lost for them - in the hope of Russia pulling away more Rosgvardia troops to guard infrastructure on Russian soil, or announcing mobilization.. which they also want as it would hit the Russian economy. Now they're talking about Russia using tactical nukes. They may actually blow up some dirty bomb on their own territory just to blame Russia for it, or to contaminate the soil so that it's useless for Russia.

    But most of this doesn't fall under the purview of the Kremlin directly or the MoD; rather it's a job for Rosgvardia, the FSB, EMERCOM, etc.. to prevent or minimize the severity of.
    No 'deterrent' will stop this. Such deterrents in fact, would be precisely what the enemy wants if said deterrent can be lured through false intelligence into striking say a kindergarten where in fact Ukrainian officers aren't sitting, but actual kids.
    Deterrents won't work because the opponent is waging a total war, answers not to their own people but to foreign powers, and would be prepared to sacrifice however much of their own people as long as it harms Russia. They have no morals or qualms about even killing their own civilians, much less Russian ones. Nothing is out of bounds for them. How do you expect to 'deter' people like that? You can't; you can only foil their plans, take them with targeted strikes when the opportunities present themselves, etc..

    I'm not selling you a narrative - this is the actual situation.
    The good news is that so far this is mostly just psychological warfare. Yes it does real damage - but Russia has taken out x100 more fuel depots and artillery storage warehouses by now. So do yourself a favour, and don't fall for it.

    I only call for the relevant agencies to step their game up. If it turns out that Bryansk was hit by missiles; then I'm wondering what the heck the VKS are playing at. Air defense is their job. My criticism is addressed only to the people who were directly involved in the negligence that led to a successful strike. It's not a matter of the Kremlin's strategy, or how the Kremlin wages the war or at what pace.


    Last edited by flamming_python on Mon Apr 25, 2022 3:47 pm; edited 5 times in total

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