ucmvulcan wrote:Breaking, the guided missile cruiser Moskva has been severely damaged. . . . Wait, I need to clarify that, my 1/700 scale model of the ship of the same name was severely damaged when it tumbled off the shelf in my study when I was dusting them this past weekend. . . . I am pretty sure the Moskva currently in service with the Russian Navy is undamaged outside of the Goebbelsesque Ukrainian Twitter sphere
If it's indeed severely damage it would be from storm currently happening in Black Sea atm.
lancelot wrote:Oh and David Axe is a notorious hack who does not have a clue about military hardware and just concocts stories out of thin air. I would not take anything he says into consideration.
David Axe was the fcking moron who said that Banderastan today has more tanks than when the war started as the number of "captured Russian tanks" exceeded the number of Ukie combat losses... A few days later the Ukies started going around to their NATOista buddies cap-in-hand and begging for more tanks Well done Duffie, what a scoop, you fcking idiot
Seriously.... The guy is a grade-A gold-plated first-class retard of the highest calibre.
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It was a good one when introduced but... ...it was doomed by its own initial conception to became useless quite fast.
It was infact conceived in a period when no composite armor or other way to enhance protection from HEAT charge was available, so it was decided that the best way to cope with such menace was to develop tanks with a minimum of protection but with a very good T/W ratio so to avoid being targeted by thr contemporary tanks and first generation ATGM. Taken into account this design parameter the tank was a very good one: reliable, easy to mantain, confortable but not excessively big. well armed with excellent optics and an engine , the MTU 838 that was considered, with good reason, an authentic masterpiece with its own 820hp. It was so acquired in big numbers by most of the european NATO members and continously updated. However, no matter the updates applied to it the initial conception design turned immediately sour as soon as laser rangefinders and modern FCS became widely available, meaning that its main mean of defence, its own agility and accelleration were of no so much use anymore: even a T-55MV would be better fitted for modern use. It would be MUCH better to send its own specialistic version instead: they are all excellent as their MTU838 has still all its teeths on so to speak.
d_taddei2, magnumcromagnon, kvs, GunshipDemocracy, lancelot, Mir, Broski and rfan like this post
Have to say, the fake BBC vid that Russia did about the Kramatorsk strike was a masterstroke. Resurrected an embarrassing little warcrime story that the West tried to bury and forget about.
Now all the Western media is falling into the trap of trying to deny it. The Telegraph. The BBC itself https://t.me/vicktop55/3101
And people in the comments are bringing up the subject of the serial numbers matching
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Russian missile cruiser and Black Sea flagship "Moskva" seriously damaged as a result of fire on board - crew evacuated Russian missile cruiser and Black Sea flagship "Moskva" seriously damaged as a result of fire on board - crew evacuated
Russia’s MoD has said that ammunition detonated aboard the warship due to the fire. https://t.me/rtnews/23518
Belisarius wrote:Russian missile cruiser and Black Sea flagship "Moskva" seriously damaged as a result of fire on board - crew evacuated Russian missile cruiser and Black Sea flagship "Moskva" seriously damaged as a result of fire on board - crew evacuated
Russia’s MoD has said that ammunition detonated aboard the warship due to the fire. https://t.me/rtnews/23518
Well for sure that would make Pro-ukrainian account cheer in happiness regardless whatever happened. Currently there is storm in Black Sea which complicates things.
It's kinda sad tho to see something like that happened, especially for a ship as big as Moskva.
Word has it the ship sunk, but the crew has been evacuated
Although I wouldn't put much stock in rumours.
All we know is that it's damaged. I suspect sabotage, more than I do an anti-ship missile.
Nevertheless this is a massive ****-up, and will give the Ukrainians a morale boost to not surrender in the Donbass at any cost. This is the flagship of the Black Sea Fleet we're talking about. And as a result a lot more lives will be lost.
Unfortunately this is the state of things, of our complacent generals, admirals. It's not the fault of the rank and file, everyone fulfills their orders. It's purely the fault of the officer corps.
flamming_python wrote:Word has it the ship sunk, but the crew has been evacuated
Although I wouldn't put much stock in rumours.
All we know is that it's damaged. I suspect sabotage, more than I do an anti-ship missile.
It's official as you can see. Ammunition detonated on the Moskva missile cruiser as a result of a fire On the guards missile cruiser "Moskva" ammunition detonated as a result of a fire https://ria.ru/20220414/kreyser-1783435471.html
The question: own crew made firs close to ammo depot? or Orc frogman carried by some nato piggyback vehicle?
flamming_python wrote:Word has it the ship sunk, but the crew has been evacuated
Although I wouldn't put much stock in rumours.
All we know is that it's damaged. I suspect sabotage, more than I do an anti-ship missile.
It's official as you can see. Ammunition detonated on the Moskva missile cruiser as a result of a fire On the guards missile cruiser "Moskva" ammunition detonated as a result of a fire https://ria.ru/20220414/kreyser-1783435471.html
The question: own crew made firs close to ammo depot? or Orc frogman carried by some nato piggyback vehicle?
Well we don't know
Could be a missile as well.
Either way Kalibrating everything in sight in response will be an act of vengeance and therefore weakness.
Losses must be admitted to and talked about frankly. And it's just part of the war. This act weakens the whole 'special military operation' line.
flamming_python wrote:Word has it the ship sunk, but the crew has been evacuated
Kinda worrysome tho as the storm looks severe in Black Sea atm. that might complicates rescue operation.
It's very sad.
It's a catastrophe, as now Kiev got what it wanted, a way to prevent a rout in the Donbass
It will make things a lot harder and will cancel the effect of Mariupol falling entirely.
A severe let-down by the fleet of the men on the front-line
Just shut up, you fuckin idiot !
I'm sorry but it's true
The leadership needs to get its act together. They are far too complacent. Far too complacent.
Now NATO will be emboldened as well to escelate. This is a significant amount of the Black Sea Fleet's firepower lost to top it off, and we're not even at war with NATO.
And every such 'incident' will result in the same thing - the war being prolonged and more people dying. That is the severe price that will have to be paid.
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That's very sad to hear regardless what caused it. If indeed Ukrainians are behind it I am sure Russian retaliation will be swift and powerful. Some years back Russia wanted Ukraine Slava class the Ukraina, they wanted it at one point for free, I guess soon they will be getting it for free. Overhaul and put it back into service and rename something more fitting maybe the "Donbass" would be a good name or a famous ww2 ship that killed loads of Nazi's
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and yeah.. Hope this time whoever up there finally got their act together. It can be anything like storm or maybe some mines but still a morale boost for Ukraine.
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flamming_python wrote:Losses must be admitted to and talked about frankly. And it's just part of the war. This act weakens the whole 'special military operation' line.
Good Lord, I swear you are bipolar.... Some bad news comes along and you loose focus and start to inspect your navel....
The Moskva is (was?) a fine ship, but this is an existential war, forced onto Russia by her enemies who seek to bring her to her knees and subjugate her, and there is no place for second-guessing everything (and allowing your personal political biases to show) simply because something happens to runs against the script.
If Moskva is indeed lost then that gives Russians yet another good reason to drive this vile regime into the dust.
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I'll see if I can dig up some more Strelkov soon to mark the occasion.
Unfortunately this time Kiev and its NATO allies combined a psychological operation with a real one, that does damage the defensive and offensive capability of the Black Sea Fleet. Which is now left without S-300F cover offshore. Thankfully the S-400s in the Crimea still cover it.
Do we know what were the ships escorting Moskva? Ukrainians reported managing to hit it with two R-360 "Neptun" cruise missiles. We should see damage if it doesn't sink.
flamming_python wrote:Losses must be admitted to and talked about frankly. And it's just part of the war. This act weakens the whole 'special military operation' line.
Good Lord, I swear you are bipolar.... Some bad news comes along and you loose focus and start to inspect your navel....
The Moskva is (was?) a fine ship, but this is an existential war, forced onto Russia by her enemies who seek to bring her to her knees and subjugate her, and there is no place for second-guessing everything (and allowing your personal political biases to show) simply because something happens to runs against the script.
If Moskva is indeed lost then that gives Russians yet another good reason to drive this vile regime into the dust.
It'll be done one way or the other but I'm just saying that Russia is its own worst enemy.
And our higher-ups betray their men, through complacency. This is indeed an existential conflict, where all of NATO is fighting us by proxy - but the attitude to it has been far too relaxed. This is not just a matter of public appearance and strategy like I thought it was. If the flagship of the fleet gets taken out without even a navy to oppose it - something has gone quite wrong.
I'll see if I can dig up some more Strelkov soon to mark the occasion.
Unfortunately this time Kiev and its NATO allies combined a psychological operation with a real one, that does damage the defensive and offensive capability of the Black Sea Fleet. Which is now left without S-300F cover offshore. Thankfully the S-400s in the Crimea still cover it.
More than enough AA systems to cover against Ukrainian barely existing airforce and Tochka-U. Doesn't change anything on the ground.
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Belisarius
Russian missile cruiser and Black Sea flagship "Moskva" seriously damaged as a result of fire on board - crew evacuated
