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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #11

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    ALAMO


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    Post  ALAMO Wed Apr 13, 2022 5:50 pm

    lancelot wrote:The Leopard 1 has a 105mm rifled gun i.e. an L7 gun.
    That is utterly obsolete. It also has like, no armor. You can probably punch a hole through it with an RPG-7.

    You nasty nasty joker you Laughing Laughing
    Considering that new ammo for RPG can penetrate up to 700 mm (Russian testing, not NATO), it can penetrate two of them front to rear in a line Laughing Laughing Laughing

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    Post  d_taddei2 Wed Apr 13, 2022 6:02 pm

    Mir wrote:
    d_taddei2 wrote:[

    Depending on how old the leopard 1's are they will either have the 105mm or 120mm gun both used fairly old ammo leopard 1's are pretty much T-55 or T-62 equivalent.

    The only leopard 1 that was ever fitted with a 120mm gun was the first experimental prototype for the Leopard 2 but I could be mistaken?

    There was an upgrade I think late 1980's where they could put turret from leopard 2 onto leopard 1. Quite a few countries went for it, not sure if Germany did. But the armour is still crap

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    Post  magnumcromagnon Wed Apr 13, 2022 6:23 pm

    JohninMK wrote:Mmmmmm

    Moon of Alabama
    @MoonofA
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    Three large drones with some 15 liter tanks and sprayers. These do not seem to be for agricultural purpose.



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    Post  Odin of Ossetia Wed Apr 13, 2022 6:32 pm

    d_taddei2 wrote:
    Hole wrote:Russian special military operation in Ukraine #11 - Page 23 Fqkrp510
    Which NATO country did provide this?  Laughing

    I nearly bought a deactivated one a few years ago but only thing put the stoppers on was the cost to ship it. Weight was 65kg+ Inc packaging. I remember reading that once filled with water its weight went up to 67.6kg that's a heavy medium machine gun to carry/push around. Probably still useful for defensive positions but it also shows how desperate they have become using Maxim 1910 machine guns.


    They use them because they have lots of them.

    I mean lots of them, reportedly many thousands of them in storage.

    And yes, they can be used for the mobile warfare, that is why these Maxim heavy machine-guns have wheels.

    attack

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    Post  par far Wed Apr 13, 2022 6:34 pm

    Regular wrote:
    par far wrote:The Ukrainians are running out of weapons, they are forced to fight with pans pots and utensils.


    https://t.me/boris_rozhin/41954?single

    If you believe their propaganda, then yeah. But most likely they got hit without knowing while making kharcho. Or maybe it's true that only chefs and musicians are left.




    It is called sarcasm.

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    Post  JohninMK Wed Apr 13, 2022 6:36 pm

    Re the earlier claimed BBC News report.

    Russia in RSA 🇷🇺
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    FM Sergey #Lavrov: It is revealing that they tried to keep Bucha going as a story for several weeks but quickly stopped talking about Kramatorsk. Evidence was presented on the same day, including ballistic trajectories, the absence of Tochka-U systems in our forces and the like


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    ‼ 🇬🇧 🇺🇦 Ukraine is sad: The BBC does not blame Russia, but admits that the attack on the Kramatorsk railway station could have been inflicted by the AFU


    The article is completely and clearly carefully neutral on who was responsible, the emphasis now being on what it was. Very strange that all the hype and angst has now gone!

    The BBC has tried to identify the launch site for the missile, using social media video and images, but has so far been unable to do so.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/61079356


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/61079356

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    Post  ALAMO Wed Apr 13, 2022 6:39 pm

    They already know whom to blame - it was a Soviet missile!

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    Post  magnumcromagnon Wed Apr 13, 2022 6:45 pm



    Pepe Escobar's Telegram channel
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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #11 - Page 23 FQN2PSbX0AE-yUU?format=jpg&name=large

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #11 - Page 23 FQN-5uXXwAcOhYI?format=jpg&name=large

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    Post  flamming_python Wed Apr 13, 2022 6:53 pm

    NATO is throwing not only all its old inventory into the fray, but also its spare cannon-fodder too

    I remember a lot of Afghans were evacuated to Kosovo. They mostly covered their faces when boarding the planes. Probably local ISIS cells that NATO set up and then got out of there to use at a later date

    ⚡🇧🇦🇺🇦💀 Radical Islamists from the Balkans were given the green light to take part in hostilities in Ukraine

    As early as March 10, we wrote that the undisputed spiritual leader of the Muslims of Bosnia and Herzegovina, Mustafa Ceric, opposes the radicalization of Muslims in Eastern Europe and being drawn into the conflict in Ukraine. For him, both Recep Erdogan and Ramzan Kadyrov are authorities. Prior to this, Cerich actually approved the participation of the Kadyrovites in a special military operation, while at the same time speaking out against the participation of Islamists from Eastern Europe.

    But a month later, neither the call of the European Muslim Forum, nor the request to stay away from the interethnic conflict, unfortunately, is no longer quoted.

    The officially stated reason is that the Forum's leadership did not meet the agreed funding deadline and did not transfer a million euros for the implementation of projects.

    ▪ Several heads of cities in Bosnia and Herzegovina made a statement in support of Ukraine.
    ▪ Khashim Muyanovich from Zavidovichi considers the protocol of the Forum invalid, as well as the cooperation agreements with Chechen cities signed this summer.
    ▪ Mayor of Gorazde Ernest Imamovich also refused twinning with the Chechen Chalet.

    Such a demarche means only one thing: there is no more official deterrent.

    This means that in the near future, in addition to Croatian neo-Nazis, streams of mercenaries from among the Bosnian radicals, who for years have learned to fight as part of local parajamaats, will still pour into Nezalezhnaya.

    True, there is an important nuance: the radicals do not know how to fight against a modern regular army and a technologically equipped enemy. Conduct guerrilla operations or act as a DRG - yes. But psychologically, the militants are not ready for a war with a well-equipped regular army.

    Therefore, this should be perceived precisely as the introduction of regular reserves to artificially prolong the conflict.

    In addition, the participation of radical Islamists on the side of Ukraine is a fat reputational minus for the current authorities in Kyiv in the eyes of the international community and, above all, the Islamic world. And this is important: the authorities of the Independent will incur such reputational costs because of their curators.

    The British intelligence network played a key role in these processes. All radical Islamist movements in Eastern Europe are supervised along the lines of Mi-6 and spacer structures. And if for the time being they turned a blind eye to Mustafa Tserich's attempts to play peacemaker and conciliator, now the radicals have been given a "green light".

    ❗It also means that today the need to prolong the conflict in Ukraine and the potential benefits outweigh the risk of unleashing an inter-Islamic conflict that will affect other countries in the region.

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    Post  owais.usmani Wed Apr 13, 2022 6:59 pm



    Seriously? Like they have to announce that? Mad

    Kiev should have completely wiped off the map by now.

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    Post  Werewolf Wed Apr 13, 2022 7:09 pm

    owais.usmani wrote:

    Seriously? Like they have to announce that? Mad

    Kiev should have completely wiped off the map by now.

    I would actually enjoy seeing SS-18 Satan's flattening the US, but we will not see such a thing, but I am optimistic Laughing

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    Post  Ispan Wed Apr 13, 2022 7:12 pm

    Very interesting article

    HOW THE TRAP FOR RUSSIA WAS CREATED AND WHAT WENT WRONG

    https://antimaydan.info/2022/04/kak_sozdavalas_lovushka_dlya_rossii_i_chto_poshlo_ne_tak.html

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    Post  par far Wed Apr 13, 2022 7:20 pm

    This question is to the posters that are more educated about geopolitics and more informed about what is happening in the world on a geopolitically level.

    We can know that the Russia is winning militarily(despite what the western lying media says), it is not easy, it is hard fought battle but the Russians are winning.


    The question I have for posters that are more educated about geopolitics and more informed about what is happening in the world on a geopolitically level.

    We have seen what is happening in Pakistan regarding Imran Khan(this is a coup), this happened because Imran Khan was "too pro Russian according to the Muricans".

    If Russia wins out right in Ukraine militarily, will this change the stance of world governments and will it be hard to do the mischief things that are happening in Pakistan right now?

    We have seen the Solomon Island situation with China, we can some glimpse of it happening.




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    Post  Mir Wed Apr 13, 2022 7:23 pm

    d_taddei2 wrote:
    There was an upgrade I think late 1980's where they could put turret from leopard 2 onto leopard 1. Quite a few countries went for it, not sure if Germany did. But the armour is still crap

    That's news for me - do you know what countries joined this upgrade?
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    Post  par far Wed Apr 13, 2022 7:52 pm

    Ispan wrote:Very interesting article

    HOW THE TRAP FOR RUSSIA WAS CREATED AND WHAT WENT WRONG

    https://antimaydan.info/2022/04/kak_sozdavalas_lovushka_dlya_rossii_i_chto_poshlo_ne_tak.html





    Very good analysis, I had to translate, here is the transition(I think the transition is accurate, I used several programs to make sure it was accurate.)


    "HOW THE TRAP FOR RUSSIA WAS CREATED AND WHAT WENT WRONG. THE ENTIRE SPOTLIGHT FROM THE SIDE.

    The points. I do not pretend to be accurate, in some places I put forward versions, but the logic must be ironclad. The following is confirmed by Western unofficial experts and former intelligence officers who give candid sober interviews outside the general propaganda rut.


    1. The goal of the United States is to return the Russian colony under control. The Russian Federation inevitably slips out of hands, returns sovereignty, and is about to make an alternative to the dollar out of the ruble, and this is the most unacceptable scenario, because it threatens to collapse the dollar. For the owners of the dollar, any wars, crises are acceptable, millions of victims among their own population are acceptable. For the sake of hegemony, everything is acceptable, except for one's own death and alternative independent centers for issuing money. There is a longer-range strategic goal - to crush China.
    2. The local goal is to create a new Afghanistan for Russia, but on a larger scale. For Russia to be drawn into an exhausting conflict for years to come with the support of weapons, volunteers, so that the conflict is as costly and long as possible. Breaking and robbing Europe along the way is also a holy cause. The more chaos there is in Europe, the easier it is to rob it, the greater the desire to have a dictator "to put things in order," the more willingly they will join the army. And this is an opportunity to create the Fourth Reich, again necessary for the crushing of Russia. After all, Ukraine, obviously, will lose.


    3. For the purpose of the long conflict fit: Ukraine, Poland together with Romania, Turkey, Afghanistan itself with Pakistan. Kazakhstan, Georgia and Moldova are not suitable, too little population, but could be a good addition. There is no point in describing the layout of all the countries, but Kazakhstan and Pakistan and Afghanistan are being prepared. Whether it will work or not is a separate question.









    4. Ukraine was the best fit - the Maidan was a success, and the treatment of ideology goes well. In contrast to the peaceful Yanukovich, aggressive Nazis, ideologically charged, dreaming of a great Ukraine, came out on top. Just like the maniacs of the Third Reich. The conflict in Donbass would have happened under any circumstances. They would have found a thousand reasons. The Americans need a bloody boil. The conflict was not extinguished deliberately by Kiev's American handlers. Moreover, Poroshenko himself supplied the militias with weapons. Cauldrons and the defeat of the AFU in 2014 were organized, so that God forbid, Ukraine would not win, because it was not ready for large-scale actions anyway. There was constant shelling of civilians - what for? To escalate the conflict. Odessa on May 2 goes in the same vein. After the unexpected loss of Crimea in 2014, the Americans were not particularly upset. Even if both Crimea and Donbass had remained part of Ukraine, an excuse for war would still have been created. Only, perhaps, the Donbass people would have fought against Russia, just as the Russian Kharkov, Odessa, and Zaporozhye people are now part of the Ukrainian Armed Forces.

    5. The scale and level of pumping of Ukraine's arms in eight years is staggering. In 2014 they could do nothing with a couple of thousand militias. Now we see a completely different picture. A huge and very well armed grouping, powerful fortifications.

    6. The trap for Russia was set up perfectly. Prepared a powerful army, the second strongest in Europe, ideologically charged in the direction of Nazism, ready for ethnic cleansing. Fortifications were prepared in case of a Russian counterattack. Even if the war does not take place, the biolaboratories, where they studied the methods of spreading viruses, were prepared for that eventuality. The flight of birds through Russian territory, the possibility of transfer through insects, rats, etc. were studied. A variety of pathogens were studied to affect not only humans but also farm animals. Terms of reference for the installation of sprays on drones were uncovered. Preparation of nuclear charges for Point U. That is Russia was shot at 120 kilometers. Options for the destruction of millions of Russians and Ukrainians are almost ready.


    6. The problem turned out to be in the leader. We had to take just a vain and very stupid patriot, apparently there was no other. In 2014 I thought there would be someone like Hitler, like Lyashko or Tyahnybok, but apparently they were not suitable as leaders. Zelensky has a very good quality - he is a real patriot of Ukraine, really appreciates his people, really wants to make Ukraine prosperous. But he is not a politician, not a historian, not a statesman, not an experienced apparatchik, not a scout, not a player. In a word, he is a lumberjack who should not be allowed to hold public office. Big uncles are always using them as a condom, skillfully playing on their qualities. Having promised him manna from heaven, the Americans competently persuaded the little Führer to start the military option of returning Donbass and Crimea. They were well aware that Russia would respond, but would end up with a long and large-scale conflict of attrition.

    7. Trapped and inevitable, Putin finds the only sure way out - to create the same Afghanistan, but for them, for Europe. Unexpectedly, a massive special operation takes place.



    8. Initially, Russia was apparently counting on negotiations. Under the blows, reason would quickly prevail and agreements would be reached with recognition of Crimea and Donbass and other conditions. But this option did not pass.

    9. The Americans have turned their propaganda resources on full blast. A lot of Western PR agencies are engaged in this. Russia is presented as an absolute evil, absurd actions have begun, up to the banning of Tchaikovsky's music. This is important firewood for a long conflict.


    10. Logically, Zelensky is put in conditions in which he cannot negotiate anything with Russia at all, one cannot negotiate with universal evil. Zelensky himself is not allowed to negotiate. He will be broken down there and the fool will be explained the whole situation. The war is based on the fact that Ze is a fool, who imagines himself a great martyr and a great leader. If he figures it out, he might get really offended by the Americans and go over to Russia's side.

    11. Having failed to get a blitzkrieg with a peace treaty, the Kremlin moves on to the total destruction of the AFU, the National Battalions, all Ukrainian military equipment, plus the loss of the southern territories of Ukraine. The local population hates the Kiev government and the Nazis far more than they hate the Russian army. In this situation, Ze, realizing where things are headed, presses the Americans and Europeans on their promises to help. We don't know what promises the big guys made to the stupid native czar. But one thing is clear - he's been dumped. The promised aid did not happen. Even the Americans paid Russia 30 times more money for the supply of resources than they gave Ukraine.







    12. Being offended by the Americans and apparently guessing that he has been played like a sucker, Ze decides to surrender his guts to Putin in order to screw the Americans in return and end the war. Agreements have apparently been reached, and even one step has been taken - Russian troops have been withdrawn from near Kiev. There is information in the Russian media from Medinsky that there is progress in the negotiations.

    People in Russia did not really understand the essence of it, and they threw a patriotic tantrum. And meanwhile, the option of denazification and demilitarization of Ukraine without great sacrifices was just around the corner.

    13. But Zelensky is a jackass in the politics and history. Absolute. The Americans were fuming from such independence of the small native, who suddenly decided to play off script. And three days later they went into the town of Bucha. A couple of days before Biden called Putin a butcher, which was actively promoted by the Western media (the word butcher), a phonetic match for the impact on the minds of ordinary people.

    The massacre in Bucha was the work of the Western secret services, who stupidly shot up the civilian population for the sake of a picture. Just like Odessa on May 2, just like the deliberate attack on the train station in Kramatorsk was the work of a third party. Zelensky was brought as a hostage to the scene of the massacre and shown him the "atrocities of Putin", like who are you stupid to negotiate with?



    14. The result of Bucha is that the arrangements are broken. It's a pity. Putin's next offer will be more expensive. Russia has shown the world that it can grind down an army three times its size. The AFU always had all the satellite reconnaissance data at its disposal, any help from NATO instructors. Russia did not even bring in the army, only 200 thousand along with volunteers on the vast territory. The war was clearly the old-fashioned way, if you do not count unmanned reconnaissance. Not even electronic warfare was used. No more serious ammunition was used. Dagger was used once or twice. In one month 70% of the equipment was destroyed, the AFU suffered huge losses, an order of magnitude greater than the Russian ones.

    15. Putin's sudden strike forced the West to make a lot of mistakes. The West really imposed all possible sanctions as a matter of urgency. This is what was needed. This is the occasion for a rapid restructuring of the economy, a purge of the elites. Decisions were made that could not be implemented for years. Foreign consulting companies have been thrown out of our ministries, the entire fifth column, which has been well exposed, is being expelled. Resources will be traded for rubles through Russian banks. Money is no longer flowing offshore. The beginning of the creation of the sovereign ruble. Investments will grow in the near future. Russia has, in fact, gained new territories in southern Ukraine.

    Europe and Ukraine have been hit so hard that their survival directly depends on the Kremlin's decisions. Refugees are both a weakening of Europe and a strengthening of Russia if they go to Russia, but a weakening of Ukraine. Resources and technology - the key to survival - only Russia has enough of them. Time is working for Russia. And this is only the beginning."











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    Post  d_taddei2 Wed Apr 13, 2022 7:55 pm

    Good news
    We could be seeing strikes on Kiev if they attack Russian territory again. From Russian ministry of Defense FB page


    "The ministry of Defense of Russia sees attempts of diversions and strikes by Ukrainian troops on objects in the territory of the Russian federation.

    If such cases continue, then the armed forces of the Russian federation will attack decision-making centers, including Kiev, from which the Russian Army has still been restrained"


    Last edited by d_taddei2 on Wed Apr 13, 2022 8:00 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Post  d_taddei2 Wed Apr 13, 2022 8:00 pm

    Mir wrote:
    d_taddei2 wrote:
    There was an upgrade I think late 1980's where they could put turret from leopard 2 onto leopard 1. Quite a few countries went for it, not sure if Germany did. But the armour is still crap

    That's news for me - do you know what countries joined this upgrade?

    European users o believe I think they called it A5 upgrade which offered an additional add on was the turret. I remember years ago Netherlands did it but didnt say how many. Info on exactly what variants each country has is a bit sketchy.
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    Post  par far Wed Apr 13, 2022 8:05 pm












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    Post  Podlodka77 Wed Apr 13, 2022 8:16 pm

    lyle6 wrote:
    Podlodka77 wrote:
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #11 - Page 23 Spryat10
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #11 - Page 23 Spryat11
    Are these Aca-cia logs yours? Twisted Evil

    I use Google translator for Russian links. Yes, I know it's 2S3 Akatsiya, not Akacia.
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    Post  Mir Wed Apr 13, 2022 8:21 pm

    d_taddei2 wrote:
    Mir wrote:
    d_taddei2 wrote:
    There was an upgrade I think late 1980's where they could put turret from leopard 2 onto leopard 1. Quite a few countries went for it, not sure if Germany did. But the armour is still crap

    That's news for me - do you know what countries joined this upgrade?

    European users o believe I think they called it A5 upgrade which offered an additional add on was the turret. I remember years ago Netherlands did it but didnt say how many. Info on exactly what variants each country has is a bit sketchy.

    Leopard 1A5 was 105mm with an option for 120mm but never taken up by anyone. The Leopard 1A6 was a 120 mm variant (not with Leo 2 turret) but only one test bed was built before the whole idea was abandoned.
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    Post  Hole Wed Apr 13, 2022 8:23 pm

    12. Being offended by the Americans and apparently guessing that he has been played like a sucker, Ze decides to surrender his guts to Putin in order to screw the Americans in return and end the war. Agreements have apparently been reached, and even one step has been taken - Russian troops have been withdrawn from near Kiev. There is information in the Russian media from Medinsky that there is progress in the negotiations.

    Total BS.

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    Post  Hole Wed Apr 13, 2022 8:25 pm

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #11 - Page 23 Fqofyw10
    Strike on the S-300 system from Slovakia, sat pic from the airport in Dnjepropetrovsk
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #11 - Page 23 Fqpego10
    Documents from Bandera Orcs, terminated in Popasnaya
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #11 - Page 23 Fqpy1p10

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    Azi


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    Post  Azi Wed Apr 13, 2022 8:27 pm

    d_taddei2 wrote:
    Mir wrote:
    d_taddei2 wrote:
    There was an upgrade I think late 1980's where they could put turret from leopard 2 onto leopard 1. Quite a few countries went for it, not sure if Germany did. But the armour is still crap

    That's news for me - do you know what countries joined this upgrade?

    European users o believe I think they called it A5 upgrade which offered an additional add on was the turret. I remember years ago Netherlands did it but didnt say how many. Info on exactly what variants each country has is a bit sketchy.
    No...the Leopard 1 A5 upgrade includes fire control system EMES 18 and the possibility to switch from the 105 mm cannon to the 120 mm smoothbore cannon of the Leopard 2.

    There was an extension for a version for the turret but I believe only as a prototype.

    Compared to present tanks it can be considered a light tank but with only 830 horsepower. In 2022 it's a moving coffin made of steel.

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    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Wed Apr 13, 2022 8:38 pm

    par far wrote:This question is to the posters that are more educated about geopolitics and more informed about what is happening in the world on a geopolitically level.

    We can know that the Russia is winning militarily(despite what the western lying media says), it is not easy, it is hard fought battle but the Russians are winning.

    The question I have for posters that are more educated about geopolitics and more informed about what is happening in the world on a geopolitically level.

    We have seen what is happening in Pakistan regarding Imran Khan(this is a coup), this happened because Imran Khan was "too pro Russian according to the Muricans".

    If Russia wins out right in Ukraine militarily, will this change the stance of world governments and will it be hard to do the mischief things that are happening in Pakistan right now?

    We have seen the Solomon Island situation with China, we can some glimpse of it happening.


    Does this question really belong here in the military (in the main) info thread?

    Surely it would be better in the 'effects of sanctions' which is our economic/political effects thread on this event?

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    Post  Azi Wed Apr 13, 2022 8:46 pm

    Isos wrote:Ukraine has still plenty of t-80 and t-64. They don't need 50 leopard that are shittier. It's all propaganda.

    Would be nice if they send them. Just film when you destroy them. It will work good for propaganda purpose.

    This is true! The background of the debate is to draw Germany deeper into the conflict, because so far the German chancellor and the SPD refuse to be drawn too deeply into the chaos. To be honest...the Leopard 1s in the conflict are just junk the fuel to eventually get them from A to B in Ukraine is a waste. All the logistics in the Ukraine are not designed for the tank at all...where to get the ammo after a time?

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