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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #10

    Arkanghelsk
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    Post  Arkanghelsk Thu Apr 07, 2022 5:02 am

    Because of the AL Tanf camp

    That's why it is imperative to hit Yavoriv and Lvov and maintain the Belarusians there to immediately hit Americans and Poles if they try to cross the border and establish an AL tanf there
    Luckily Ukraine is not trisected by assadists , sunnies, and kurds like Syria,

    But only bisected by nazis and pro Russians
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    Post  GarryB Thu Apr 07, 2022 7:03 am

    What? The design of the tank will have to be changed to accommodate a 40mm underbarrel grenade launcher instead of a 23mm cannon.

    No tank.

    The DNR soldiers didn't have underbarrel grenade launchers so they improvised... they got engineers to take 23mm cannon barrels and cut them into short sections of 20-30cm long and threaded them so they could be attached to the muzzles of their rifles. Get the 23mm cannon ammo and pull the projectiles out of the shell cases because they had nothing to mount the guns on and no use for the 23mm ammo, so carrying around the 23mm projectiles if you muzzle load them into the tube on the muzzle of your rifle and load a blank cartridge and fire it.... the 23mm projectile is launched in the direction of the enemy position. With no projectile in the muzzle device you can still fire standard ammo so the top round being a blank to launch the projectile and you would then have to manually reload the next round in the mag which will be a normal rifle cartridge to shoot like a normal rifle.

    Very dangerous and risky, but it is what they had to do because they were not getting supplied by the Russians as per Minsk agreements despite Kiev saying otherwise.

    What I am saying is they can dump those and use 40mm grenade launchers instead... much safer and much more accurate and more powerful too.

    It would be smart for the Russians to capture whoever the VIPs are, and get them on film, expose to the world.
    I am surprised Ukraine left the helicopter rescue until the last minute. They had weeks to get them out.

    There are things they could trade them for...

    Problem is that trading them for Russians imprisoned in the west could lead to the west putting more Russians in prison.

    Only the 3K60 BAL coastal missile system has not been used to hit targets in the former Ukraine. All in all, I think that if the Onyx coastal missile system is already capable of hitting targets on the ground, it could be BAL as well. Time will tell whether I am right or not.

    Bal is Uran and comes in a range of versions.... land (BAL) Sea (URAN) and air (URAN) launched missiles and most likely has already been used in the Ukraine... it is a useful little missile.

    and i see people claiming that as a sign of Russian runs out of missiles that they now have to use antiship mssile for land attack. Boy, such myth runs deeps eh. They really-really dont want to see Russia use Precision munitions.

    The enormous range of choice they have is an advantage and I am sure they have old stocks of all types of missiles they will want to use in conflict because it is a very realistic test against real targets and recon forces can monitor how effective they are too.

    Even the Ukrainian ambassador in Germany is really acting as if he is the boss of the German government, and giving "orders" and "ultimatums" to them.

    His experience with US diplomats in Ukraine and Germany probably lead him to believe that this is how he should act too.

    The USA wants to destroy Germany's and UE economy, which is why their vassals put such pressure on the EU embargo on Russian gas and oil. Germany will not give up gas from Russia because it is thinking about its own interests.

    This conflict is all about separating the EU from Russia so the US can sell products to the EU and Russia can't... if Russia and the EU joined together WTF would Europe need the US for?

    Yeah, but the problem is that people are fed with 404 agitprop, and they are winning there, you know? Laughing
    The Russkies' withdrawal from the north gave them a huge propaganda load that they are using now.

    Russia is giving up on the west... the west will have their win, but on the ground Russia will be dictating terms and doing what they need to do.

    An important aspect is that the viability of the German industrial economy is guaranteed by cheap Russian gas. It's not enough to have the gas. It needs to be cheap to ensure the competitiveness of its industrial park in world trade. I. Very difficult to replace Russian gas.

    Very true... it was the low price of Russian gas that made their production so competitive.... now Russia and China will be competing from a much better position on the world markets...

    Russia really has to take the whole thing.

    Not worth the cost.

    Take as much as they want and then seal it off... I suspect there are going to be at least four bits of the former Ukraine.... the Crimea is Russia so that is one, the Donbass and Lugansk and other bits nearby might want to join the RF straight away. Another part including the entire southern coast and most of the centre of Ukraine might be an independent but Russia friendly area and then the western Ukraine is screwed anyway... let the nazis move there... that region wont be invaded or occupied but it will be shelled and weapons stores and known locations of nazi groups will be taken out when possible, but it is not worth saving.

    If Russia cannot build states, it will collapse , simple as that and the reality of Russia since beginning

    Russia can build states.... it rebuilt itself and is preparing to rebuild the rest of the world in a mutual growth and development partnership.... something the west has been rejecting from Russia these last 20 years and the entire world the last 300 years.

    No parts has to be allowed to join other economic or military alliances (unless RF plan to put some parts of northwestern Ucraine as a Trojan horse in the European Union or in Poland).

    Northwest Ukraine is broken... it will fit right in with the west.... it has no agriculture or industry... it is more west than the west.

    A fast war would benefit Russia and would allow Russia to develop a posture against NATO

    Not if it means concessions to make that war short. Russia went into this conflict with specific goals... it needs to take as much time to achieve those goals as it takes and no less.

    Handicraft armoring with improvised materials of wheeled vehicles of the RF Armed Forces in the hope of increasing protection."

    Not as stupid as it looks... putting wood around the engine would make it harder to detect and lock using Javelin...

    Well that's the thing, first I doubt there are 190,000 Russians in Ukraine

    More like 50,000 to 60,000,

    There will be a lot who don't give a shit as long as roads are being built and infrastructure is being improved and they have customers for their products and jobs to go to to provide for a market that is bigger than the Ukraine.

    They gave up the Russian market expecting to make money in the EU market but they don't buy what the Ukraine makes generally so they ended up with no market... so many who could left.

    Very interesting example behind him. Am I seeing era blocks on the bonnet?

    Probably to deal with drone dropped bomblets or rockets fired from above... and even then how effective they might be is questionable.

    I hope so. Borders in Syria seem to have been stuck for a couple of years now.

    Russia has been balancing the interests of the US and Turkey and Israel there all these years... I rather suspect the US and Israel can be removed from that list now.

    That should allow progress in a few areas.

    BTW The US has already made it clear it does not want to get involved on the ground in the Ukraine and there wont be much that changes that.

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    Sujoy
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    Post  Sujoy Thu Apr 07, 2022 8:23 am

    Soviet strategy was to use BMP-3 against enemy ATGM squads (TOW,Javelin).

    Enemy ATGM squads equipped with TOW and Javelin and located on fortified positions would be in an extremely difficult situation , when groups of enemy BMP-3Ms ,that can come literally from anywhere stop quietly at distances of 7-7.5 km and saturate at leisure the entire fortified area with an indirect rain of overhead detonating supersonic 3UOF19/E-3UOF19 HE-Frag rounds , advance and engage the remaining fortified positions with Arkan missiles . BMP-3 IFV had integrated a low pressure 100 mm gun purposely designed to fire the 3UOF-17 HE-Frag at various ambush points .All of that from a wide stand-off range.

    Maybe this particular strategy was not employed by the Russian during this conflict in Ukraine.
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    Post  ALAMO Thu Apr 07, 2022 8:48 am

    There is a fresh new release of Bucha, showing Ukr troops towing dead bodies on ropes to the scene.
    The scene is a famous street, bodies are easy to distinguish as the same "evidenced" later on.
    I won't link that for obvious reasons.

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    0nillie0
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    Post  0nillie0 Thu Apr 07, 2022 10:12 am

    ALAMO wrote:There is a fresh new release of Bucha, showing Ukr troops towing dead bodies on ropes to the scene.
    The scene is a famous street, bodies are easy to distinguish as the same "evidenced" later on.
    I won't link that for obvious reasons.

    Posting and stating things like this will not help at all, in fact it will only strengthen the Western Media in their case that Russia spreads disinformation to create doubt, while they are clearly guilty.

    The video in question is an exerpt from a longer video where there are already "journalists" present, and the Ukranians are removing the bodies with ropes out of fear they are sabotaged with explosives.
    Altough the action itself is moronic at best, representing this as "proof of fake" is not helping at all.

    The Western Media just gets more ammunition to fire at Russian narratives, because by pushing all these random OSINT videos as counter argument, they really help spread the idea that Russia constantly changes the narrative, rather than stick to a single story.

    This whole situation is another PR disaster, and at this point Russian leadership can only make it worse, unless they put forward a clear case, but for that it is already too late anyway.


    Last edited by 0nillie0 on Thu Apr 07, 2022 10:20 am; edited 1 time in total

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    Post  Firebird Thu Apr 07, 2022 10:14 am

    On which areas are liberated I don't know why some are so pessimistic.
    Russia has already liberated Crimea, Kherson, most of Lugansk, much of Donetsk, much of Zaporizhia.
    Add in Odessa, Nikolaev and you're already looking at 15m people.

    After the Donbass cauldron, Bandera troops are pretty fucked.
    Russia can look at Odessa, Kharkov and the interior around the Dnieper. Thats before any efforts to take Kiev and nearby Northern oblasts.

    If Russia was treating it as a "claim map terrirtory sport", it would have taken all the interior way west of the centre. But that was not the objective. We've already had an idea of what Russia considers pro Russian (from the MOD), thats Odessa's and Zytomyr's West border and Vinnytsia's east border. Russia hasn't put troops West of there yet.. so maybe its further.

    Clearly this was an operation long in the making. Just like the name, its plan Z. Its more than about a few sq miles in Donbass. Far more. Its a complete and total divorce from the West. ANd a military engagement that is very very large.

    We know broadly half of the Ukraine was proRussian. And that was when people were being terrorised by Fascists. Ordinary people will be sick to death of fascists and poison like banning Russian langauge and parties. Even the ignorant Ukrainian speakers many will realise that is no way to run a country. Plenty of hohols will **** off to clean toilets in Poland, or set up Nazi camps in the US. But the remaining Ukrainians will realise its pointless to have their places at war month after month, esp when its a war for Uncle Sham, not them.

    I see it as a very federalised solution. Novorossiya (20M or so?)as very pro Russia. Malorossiya(9m or so?) as mixed but without the extremism. Kiev should be specially nurtured as an oblast given its cultural importance to Russia.
    The West (8m or so?)will be about justice for war crimes and about demilitarisation, prob with forward Russian bases. Other than that the West will be I suppose similar to the Kurdish parts of Turkey.
    Novoross has already seen the light. Malor. will/may take time but Russia can use a firm hand against any fascist garbage and invite them to move West if they don't like it (or get locked up). The West might take decades to become moderate, but as long as its not got arms pointed at Russia... who give a shit, broadly speaking?

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    ALAMO


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    Post  ALAMO Thu Apr 07, 2022 10:28 am

    0nillie0 wrote:
    This whole situation is another PR disaster, and at this point Russian leadership can only make it worse, unless they put forward a clear case, but for that it is already too late anyway.

    I have seen only a short part, so thank you for explaining the wide view.
    Well, not that I am going to defend them, but most of the materials for both sides are being released by some OSINT structures.
    The statements of official Russian authorities are very laconic.
    If we agree that they won't hear any sane voice, trying to argue is a lost resource.
    Just say once how happened there, close it, and go further.
    And I suppose this is kinda what they are doing.

    Edit : and seems that you have been heard in principle, as I have tried to watch the material again, and it is gone already. Probably they realized the story behind it.
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    Post  0nillie0 Thu Apr 07, 2022 10:40 am

    ALAMO wrote:
    0nillie0 wrote:
    This whole situation is another PR disaster, and at this point Russian leadership can only make it worse, unless they put forward a clear case, but for that it is already too late anyway.

    I have seen only a short part, so thank you for explaining the wide view.
    Well, not that I am going to defend them, but most of the materials for both sides are being released by some OSINT structures.
    The statements of official Russian authorities are very laconic.
    If we agree that they won't hear any sane voice, trying to argue is a lost resource.
    Just say once how happened there, close it, and go further.
    And I suppose this is kinda what they are doing.

    I agree with you. In my country for example, the media was already working on "moderating" Azov weeks ago, publishing interviews with Ukrainian journalists living here (but really working for Washingon Post) stating that Azov soldiers really arent that bad and that they would be fun to take on a boyscouts camping trip. When next there are elections here it will surely be the far right who is the great victor (further pushed by discontent over the whole COVID thing). Any extremists leaving Ukraine for Western Europe will find here a nice environment to thrive in. Europe is unraveling before the eyes of its people and they have no clue.


    Last edited by 0nillie0 on Thu Apr 07, 2022 10:42 am; edited 2 times in total

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    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Thu Apr 07, 2022 10:40 am

    Arkanghelsk wrote:There was no sky over our village. That’s why we went to the city to watch the moon and birds, on the other side of the river. The people in the city were not thrilled to have us, but they did not try to stop us. On one of the hills, where the brick church stood, they even built an observation platform. Since for some reason they considered us drinkers, in addition to benches and a pay telescope, they built a small tavern by the observation deck, and a police post.

    .............................

    We will come tomorrow. We will conquer or perish. There is no third way.

    Either you have become suddenly very eloquent and verbose in English or that is someone else's work and you are stealing it.

    Which is it?

    I suspect Garry needs to have another word with you.

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    Post  Dr.Snufflebug Thu Apr 07, 2022 10:59 am

    Kherson city today:
    https://t.me/rian_ru/157570
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    Post  Podlodka77 Thu Apr 07, 2022 11:14 am

    Regular wrote:
    Arkanghelsk wrote:Well I guess your right podlodka

    At least Ukraine is a nice fight before the title fight

    Russian military got shit ton of experience in a high intensity conflict

    And we will be able to beat USA and NATO in the title round

    USA and NATO stood back when our analysts assumed in 2014 that they would impose a no fly zone and defend Ukraine

    I guess it showed they are a paper tiger only

    Ukraine is better armed than Turkey, UK, USA, and France so it is good

    I just wish we had scorned Ukraine more

    Think realistically, where would you beat USA? On Russian territory maybe. Not with the current size of the Russian military and population, a non-nuclear war would be a demographic catastrophe as well. Russia needs more births, more population, more workers, better productivity and to become more self-reliant. Better fight against the hegemony of US dollar and build Asian orientated economy, so much better things to do than fight one war after another, no?

    No one from NATO wants mutual destruction.


    I agree with you to some extent, though.

    Navy; The US Navy is the biggest threat to Russia, but not because of the famous aircraft carriers, but because of the huge number of attack nuclear submarines and dozens of Arleigh Burke-class destroyers. This is where American supremacy over Russia lies.The huge number of cruise missiles on American submarines, which would be very difficult to find and destroy, is a real threat to Russia's military and civilian infrastructure. On the other hand, American destroyers would be far more vulnerable, and it is certain that Russia would sunk many US destroyers. I do not give American aircraft carriers any chance of surviving the war with Russia.And precisely because of the strength of the US Navy, the war would eventually be nuclear. In fact, the American Air Force does not have any chances of winning the Russian Air Force, and I will write later why.

    Ground forces ; The United States has absolutely no chance in a clash on land with Russia. The U.S. Army is the weakest link in the U.S. military. The Russian fighting spirit and the Russian tradition of defeating all Western conquerors have been proven throughout history. On the other hand, the United States has never had any great success in ground operations. I am convinced that the US Army is a "paper tiger", while I do not claim that for their air force and navy.

    Air force; Even if the United States brings its entire air force to Europe, there is still the possibility that Russia will destroy all possible airports in Finland, Sweden, Norway, Poland and Germany. I am of the opinion that the Air Force, as a branch of army, has lost its edge because it is now possible to destroy enemy airports from great distances with the help of cruise missiles, supersonic and hypersonic missiles. We all love airplanes, but airplanes are very vulnerable, because they are not like helicopters and require well-maintained airports (especially western airplanes), while this is not the case with helicopters. So the US Air Force would not significantly change any balance of power in the ground war with Russia. Yes, they would probably destroy a part of the Russian air defense, Russian cities and military installations, but they would not help the US Army (which I wrote is the weakest link) to enter the territory of Russia.

    Missiles (cruise missiles, supersonic missiles, hypersonic and anti ship missiles); We see that Russia has produced a large number of cruise missiles and they seem to have good production capacities. On the other hand, Russian anti-ship missiles are certainly in an advantage over American ones. Russia now has supersonic anti-ship missiles, but also hypersonic ones. Russia also has a well-echeloned system of coastal anti-ship missile systems.

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    Post  Dr.Snufflebug Thu Apr 07, 2022 11:29 am

    A Ukrainian BTR-D:
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #10 - Page 19 F2wzbx10

    Crazy how it's blown/burnt open into a tub.

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    Post  Arkanghelsk Thu Apr 07, 2022 11:54 am

    JohninMK wrote:
    Arkanghelsk wrote:There was no sky over our village. That’s why we went to the city to watch the moon and birds, on the other side of the river. The people in the city were not thrilled to have us, but they did not try to stop us. On one of the hills, where the brick church stood, they even built an observation platform. Since for some reason they considered us drinkers, in addition to benches and a pay telescope, they built a small tavern by the observation deck, and a police post.

    .............................

    We will come tomorrow. We will conquer or perish. There is no third way.

    Either you have become suddenly very eloquent and verbose in English or that is someone else's work and you are stealing it.

    Which is it?

    I suspect Garry needs to have another word with you.

    That's surkov, supposedly , but it's a look into "non linear" War

    And how objectives can change through the war

    It's called without sky, and talks about how a participant in the info war lost their sense of height and depth, only seeing black or white, yes or no

    How wars weren't so clear anymore , and Ukraine is a big example of that sort of war

    The objectives are not clear, and even if many could try to interpret it, the objectives constantly shift

    And could be spun in anyway the participants want

    Bucha, Phase 2 , sanctions, azov

    It's all spun in the way any want to see
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    Post  Arkanghelsk Thu Apr 07, 2022 12:02 pm

    The Russian ruble strengthened to 75 rubles to the US dollar and 81 against the euro on Thursday, reaching its strongest levels against major currencies since February 19.

    The ruble plunged to historic lows after Russia launched the special military operation in Ukraine, and the US and its allies imposed unprecedented sanctions targeting the country’s financial system. On March 7, the Russian currency fell to as low as 150 rubles to the dollar.

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    Post  flamming_python Thu Apr 07, 2022 12:09 pm

    ArgentinaGuard wrote:
    Exactly. The problem with Lenin and the left communists is that they do not understand races and nations. Communism is an artifice. Stalin understood it well because he was dedicated to that subject in the USSR.  
    The man must be with his own, not with others.

    Races and nations are also an artifice

    When you create a state, sooner or later a people will form as well from that state. The point of socialism in this sense was to remove this competition and survival of the fittest from among different peoples, in favour of co-operation and mutual growth on the basis of the interests of their working classes. Hence in time everyone will merge into one people.

    Else what race and nations are the Argentinians, or the Venezuelans, or the Emiratis, or the Cubans, or the Americans, or the Turks, or whatever country in Africa that is composed of +200 different ethnic groups?

    In Europe most nations trace their lineage from Medieval-era kingdoms. They've been around for a long time, hence have more defined phenotypes, cultures, their own languages and so on.

    Some countries are just starting that process or trying to start it - e.g. the Ukraine.'

    And Hitler understood all this BTW. He heard all these arguments when he was at Vienna. About how peoples, states, etc... are ultimately artificial, etc..
    He understood it, but couldn't accept it. His response was to deny that a people or a nation are based upon pure idealism, by pointing to their bloodline, and saying that it is a nation's pure blood that makes it what it is, and that some are different from others on this basis.

    Which turned out to be bogus. Nations are different from others but due to surrounding conditions and strategies created to deal with those conditions, not due to blood. A people who no longer have a state of their own like the Jews and consolidate themselves based on their rites and religion and according laws, or ones who preserved their community over 2000 years by sticking to a specific social-economic niche and clan structures like the gypsies - will of course be different from a people like the Germans.

    When the Jewish nation finally got a state of its own, Israel, it transformed itself. The zionist project of the Israeli is very much different from the stereotype of the traditional religious Jew, and it was done that way on purpose.
    You can find out more from this lecture


    Last edited by flamming_python on Thu Apr 07, 2022 1:37 pm; edited 3 times in total
    Arkanghelsk
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    Post  Arkanghelsk Thu Apr 07, 2022 12:14 pm

    US intelligence officials leaked information about the Ukraine conflict that wasn’t “rock solid” and outright made up some claims, all to win an “info war” against the Kremlin, according to an NBC News report on Wednesday. The officials admitted to, and boasted about, releasing this misinformation. When the American media cited US “intelligence” to warn that Russia was preparing to use chemical weapons in Ukraine, and when President Joe Biden repeated these warnings, they were participating in a disinformation campaign, the NBC report reveals. According to the intelligence officials who came up with the warning, the intention was to discourage Russia from actually using these weapons, even though they themselves rated the intelligence used “low confidence.”



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    Post  ALAMO Thu Apr 07, 2022 12:17 pm

    Dr.Snufflebug wrote:A Ukrainian BTR-D:

    Crazy how it's blown/burnt open into a tub.

    It is made of aluminum that just melts.
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    Post  flamming_python Thu Apr 07, 2022 12:20 pm

    Sujoy wrote:Soviet strategy was to use BMP-3 against enemy ATGM squads (TOW,Javelin).

    Enemy ATGM squads equipped with TOW and Javelin and located on fortified positions would be in an extremely difficult situation , when groups of enemy BMP-3Ms ,that can come literally from anywhere stop quietly at distances of 7-7.5 km and saturate at leisure the entire fortified area with an indirect rain of overhead detonating supersonic 3UOF19/E-3UOF19 HE-Frag rounds , advance and engage the remaining fortified positions with Arkan missiles . BMP-3 IFV had integrated a low pressure 100 mm gun purposely designed to fire the 3UOF-17 HE-Frag at various ambush points .All of that from a wide stand-off range.

    Maybe this particular strategy was not employed by the Russian during this conflict in Ukraine.

    Maybe it was, we simply don't know

    Just because we don't have photos or videos of something being done, doesn't mean it hasn't been done

    The Ukrainian military has lost the vast majority of its armored vehicles, all its Bayraktar UCAVs its being supplied, etc... yet we don't see all the photos because the Ukrainians don't photo their own losses, and the Russians aren't too interested in doing so either.

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    Post  LMFS Thu Apr 07, 2022 12:23 pm

    Naryshkin said that the special operation of the Russian Federation was a real moment of truth for the Russian world.

    According to the head of the SVR, the special operation will also definitely put an end to attempts to turn Ukraine into a Russophobic state that builds its identity on the basis of denying ties with Russia.

    MOSCOW, April 7. /tass/. Russia's special operation in Ukraine was a real moment of truth for the Russian world, which declared its readiness to defend its right to an original existence. This is stated in an article by the Director of the Foreign Intelligence Service (SVR) of the Russian Federation Sergey Naryshkin, published on the website of the magazine "National Defense".

    "Russia's special military operation was a real moment of truth for the Russian world, which firmly declared its readiness to fully defend its right to an original existence in the face of aggressive globalism embodied in American hegemony, NATO expansion, the policy of "liberal interventionism" and LGBT propaganda, " he said. "To no lesser extent, it has become a point of no return for the collective West, which in its Russophobic fervor openly violates its own basic principles that have been declared for decades or even centuries, such as inviolability of private property, freedom of speech or unlimited dissemination of information."

    According to Naryshkin, " the ferocity of the confrontation clearly indicates that we are talking about something much bigger than the fate of the Kiev regime." "In fact, the architecture of the entire world order is at stake. It is rather difficult to predict its specific outlines based on the current situation, but we can say with confidence that there will be no return to the old one, " he said.

    Naryshkin said that Russia's special operation will definitely put an end to attempts to turn Ukraine into a Russophobic state that builds its identity on the basis of denying ties with Russia.

    "The Russian special operation will definitely put an end to attempts to turn Ukraine into a Russophobic puppet state that builds its identity on the basis of maniacal denial and demonization of everything that objectively connects it with Russia. No matter how much you ride, you won't get away from yourself!" - says his article.

    The terrorist underground
    Naryshkin said that Washington is sending militants to Ukraine to organize a terrorist underground in the country.

    "[Washington] uses the most dastardly methods, including sending armed militants to Ukrainian territory, who are tasked with organizing and supporting the so - called partisan, but in fact terrorist underground in the country," he said.

    According to Naryshkin, Washington sees its main task in delaying the conflict in Ukraine for as long as possible and making it as costly as possible for both Moscow and Kiev.

    "At the current stage, Washington sees its main task in delaying the conflict as much as possible, making it as costly as possible for both Moscow and Kiev, and at the same time preventing the escalation from spreading further to the West," he said.

    Naryshkin said that Washington, like most other NATO members, is not ready to go beyond providing the Kiev regime with moral and material support and openly engage in direct armed clashes on the Ukrainian side.

    "The United States, as well as most other NATO members, are clearly not ready to go beyond providing moral and material support to the Kiev junta and openly engage in direct armed clashes on its side," he said.

    "Likeness of Afghanistan"
    Naryshkin said that the North Atlantic Alliance, as American "strategists" emphasize, should try to turn Ukraine "into a kind of Afghanistan."

    "NATO, as American "strategists" emphasize, should try to turn Ukraine "into a kind of Afghanistan." Anyone with even a little knowledge of history and geography can see the absolute irrelevance and strategic failure of such an analogy. However, should we expect much from leaders who confuse Mariupol with the Metropolis and consider Voronezh and Rostov-on - Don Ukrainian cities?", - said Naryshkin.

    A multipolar world
    Naryshkin said that Russia is creating a truly multipolar world, which has never existed before, and from which even its current opponents will benefit in the future. The SVR Director pointed out that a fundamentally new stage of European and world history is unfolding right before our very eyes. "Its essence is the collapse of the unipolar world and the system of international relations based on the right of the strongest, that is, the United States, to destroy other states in order to prevent the slightest possibility of their transformation into alternative centers of power. These goals were pursued in Yugoslavia, Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, and Syria, " he added. - This is exactly what the West's efforts to draw Ukraine into its orbit of influence were aimed at. Russia is now openly challenging this system-creating a truly multipolar world that has never existed before, and from which everyone, even our current opponents, will benefit in the long run."

    According to him, if Europe and the United States do not have the maturity and courage to move in this direction, the rest of the centers of power will have to design a global future without them. "The outdated liberal universalism should be replaced by a new world order - a just and sustainable one. It should be created on the conditions and in the forms that will ensure the joint existence of states and regional associations, while preserving the right to original development for each of them, " Naryshkin added.

    The SVR Director expressed confidence that this process will be increasingly joined by those sensible forces in Western countries that are aware of the risks facing the world community and are simply interested in self-preservation.

    https://tass.ru/politika/14307827

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    Post  Hole Thu Apr 07, 2022 12:33 pm

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    Post  Hole Thu Apr 07, 2022 12:33 pm

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    Post  owais.usmani Thu Apr 07, 2022 12:46 pm

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    Post  0nillie0 Thu Apr 07, 2022 12:47 pm

    LMFS wrote:
    Naryshkin said that Russia's special operation will definitely put an end to attempts to turn Ukraine into a Russophobic state that builds its identity on the basis of denying ties with Russia.

    "The Russian special operation will definitely put an end to attempts to turn Ukraine into a Russophobic puppet state that builds its identity on the basis of maniacal denial and demonization of everything that objectively connects it with Russia. No matter how much you ride, you won't get away from yourself!" - says his article.

    In my opinion that remains to be seen.

    Furthermore (as i have been pointing to in my ealier posts here today), i would argue that Russophobia is now tollerated and even encouraged in most of Western Europe. In fact so much so, that it becomes dangerous to not participate in it, let alone advocate against it. Even if Ukraine is no longer Russophobic when all is said and done, it is naive not to look beyond the borders of Ukraine and realise that much more of the same sh*t is beeing prepped there as we speak.

    Encroaching further on Russia will remain the goal for the West, and rather than doing it out of the public eye, the goal will be to do it while the public is applauding it. A frightening prospect imho.

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    Post  Serberus Thu Apr 07, 2022 12:58 pm

    Russophobia in the west is nothing new and it was always tolerated albeit in a veiled way. I cant remember a whole week going by without an anti Russia “news” article in the last few years in Australia, I imagine it was the same or even worse in all US vassal states.
    I recall a little while back, way before this war, during a work meeting we were talking about traveling and I mentioned Russia and added a positive comment about the country, so nothing even related to politics or wars, everyone just stopped talking and you could hear a feather drop,  every single one of about a dozen people or so squirmed in their seats as if I was praising Hitler. It was so bizarre.  
    These people have been conditioned to hate Russia for years, this is just the culmination of that work.


    Last edited by Serberus on Thu Apr 07, 2022 1:09 pm; edited 2 times in total

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    Post  flamming_python Thu Apr 07, 2022 1:09 pm

    I will repeat again, that all I see is the catastrophic underestimation of the situation, brought about by a kind of hubris from the Russian elite that I've noticed for a while now. "Oh yeah the West will just give the Ukraine up, etc..", or "Ukrainian cities will defect", etc... Yeah no, they're not going to tolerate anyone trying to challenge the world order and their position in it.

    None of the Kremlin's political calculations, ideological justifications, military plans, infowar, etc... are worth shit. It has all so far failed in the Ukraine.

    The only thing they've done alright is the economic planning but even then that should have been started in the 2000s, not 2014; as soon as it was obvious that we're in for an inevitable confrontation as we cannot accept the world order the West is trying to impose. Even then, the impact of all the additional sanctions and so on are yet to fully hit.

    I don't know what the outcome of the conflict will be - but even if plan B works - it's clear that our biggest problem is incompetence at the top, inability to predict possible outcomes, a lax attitude to one's responsibilities, and so on. This is a massive problem, as it shakes everyone's confidence.
    Even the moral justification of the invasion - there was a problem with. No-one explained much why it was necessary at this time, no-one still has. No-one clearly defined the goals of the operation. And keeping goals "open-ended" just to be able to say 'aha - that was our plan all along!' and avoid admitting defeat is too transparent to convince anyone.
    No-one explained what the fate of the Ukraine will be in case of success - nor to the Ukrainian people themselves. And now our leaders are surprised that their regime managed to mobilize it's population against Russia? Just more insufferable incompetence.
    This is a brutal war where tens of thousands have died, mostly those from the side of the 'enemy' troops but it doesn't matter, as they're not truly our enemies, most of them. And it didn't have to be this way.
    And unfortunately now this propaganda of Russophobia and Russian aggression looks justified in the face of this catastrophe. Even if NATO was about to enter or the Ukraine itself was about to blitzkrieg Crimea (and I'm not saying it was), it hardly matters, as history is written according to what 'what was', not 'what if'.

    Now what do we do with this leadership, all its ministers, generals, etc... who seemingly don't have a clue?
    Well we as the people can't do anything in a time of essentially war now. All we can do is hope that they have the wisdom to admit their mistakes at least privately, and resign, be replaced and correct for them.

    I suppose the silver lining is that Washington and pals also have a problem with hubris, and their plans at shaking the Russian economy apart didn't work. They will also believe all their own propaganda, about the catastrophic defeat of the Russian military. At least their political leadership will, their generals of course see the situation better. But one way or the other the expectation was that Russia would have taken Kiev by now - hence the evacuation of all their embassies to Lvov.


    Last edited by flamming_python on Thu Apr 07, 2022 1:13 pm; edited 1 time in total

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