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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #8

    SeigSoloyvov
    SeigSoloyvov


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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Sun Mar 27, 2022 6:58 pm

    flamming_python wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:It will depend on what the Ukies gain from their counterattacks. They will likely make small gains,

    Counter attacks should be expected, Russians are over stretched and out numbered so its sensible for the Ukies to attack them.

    Russians either need to deploy moe forces or shorten the frontline ASAP

    No, it makes no sense for the Ukrainians to attack the Russians in Kherson, or Sumy, or any such place 50-100km from the Russian border where a bunch of Russian planes can simply lift off and vaporize them, or Russian artillery can do the same job

    It's a bunch of offensives for the cameras, but its dangerous for the people involved. This is the sort of regime Russia is dealing with

    The only thing resembling an attack was the one near Sumy yesterday, where some Ukrainian territorial guard attacked a checkpoint and took out a tank, in return for their own losses and a destroyed Ukrainian SPG. Russia has not gotten around to clearing this area, it's a failure, but such a small-scale skirmish can hardly be called a counter-attack.


    and were you getting your information from?

    cause russians got pushed out of a few areas near Sumy.

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    Isos
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    Post  Isos Sun Mar 27, 2022 7:00 pm

    I saw a video of Summy and that's not russians but militias that hot pushed away.
    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python Sun Mar 27, 2022 7:04 pm

    Broski wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:
    Broski wrote:Is it just me or is flamming_python more concerned for the wellbeing of ukrops than the Russian army? What's the problem with orcs fighting inadequately?

    Because the point is to get them to surrender than just killing everyone
    So you'd like them to fight Russia more competently?

    No, the point is that they realize that their regime is using them, and that resistence is pointless, better to lay down arms and return to a peaceful lifestyle

    Just now it looks like the Chernigov territorial defense base was hit by Grads, for their participation in the attack yesterday on a Russian checkpoint

    https://t.me/sheyhtamir/13597

    And this is the right tactic IMO. Leave them alone, but if they start to wiggle around, they'll get punished.

    Same goes for those guys who took the village in Kherson region. They haven't engaged the Russian military yet. Choice is on them.

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    auslander
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    Post  auslander Sun Mar 27, 2022 7:06 pm

    Isos wrote:Ukrainians shooting on captured russians !! Graphic video.  

    FFS, pleae put a cognizant link for a video. I don't have and will never have twitter, shchmitter, shitter, whatever. Either that or I'll just put you on 'ignore' for useless bovine scatology and be done with it. I can get all I want but you, in theory, make it easier.


    Last edited by auslander on Sun Mar 27, 2022 7:09 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python Sun Mar 27, 2022 7:06 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:It will depend on what the Ukies gain from their counterattacks. They will likely make small gains,

    Counter attacks should be expected, Russians are over stretched and out numbered so its sensible for the Ukies to attack them.

    Russians either need to deploy moe forces or shorten the frontline ASAP

    No, it makes no sense for the Ukrainians to attack the Russians in Kherson, or Sumy, or any such place 50-100km from the Russian border where a bunch of Russian planes can simply lift off and vaporize them, or Russian artillery can do the same job

    It's a bunch of offensives for the cameras, but its dangerous for the people involved. This is the sort of regime Russia is dealing with

    The only thing resembling an attack was the one near Sumy yesterday, where some Ukrainian territorial guard attacked a checkpoint and took out a tank, in return for their own losses and a destroyed Ukrainian SPG. Russia has not gotten around to clearing this area, it's a failure, but such a small-scale skirmish can hardly be called a counter-attack.


    and were you getting your information from?

    cause russians got pushed out of a few areas near Sumy.

    Such as where?

    The Ukrainians announced that they liberated Trostyanets, but it's not clear if the Russians were ever even there. They did have a checkpoint around there which was attacked, but they didn't occupy the town itself. This is a rear area and would have been entered by the Sumy or Chernigov territorial defense; which were left alone by the Russians as long as they left Russian convoys alone as well.

    And that's what the Ukrainian infowar machine has been doing for the last two weeks. Announcing the liberation of villages and towns which were never taken by the Russians in the first place.

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    Post  Regular Sun Mar 27, 2022 7:08 pm

    Isos wrote:
    War is about killing... russians are still nice to not level their country, they should be happy.

    Well once they take the donbas I doubt russians will care about western ukrainian population and go at full power. Lviv won't exist anymore IMO once they come there.

    It's good that Russia doesn't consider this phase to be a war then. I don't believe in collective punishment, but call it what you want - we might see an escalation of violence after certain lines will be crossed.

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    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python Sun Mar 27, 2022 7:09 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:It will depend on what the Ukies gain from their counterattacks. They will likely make small gains,

    Counter attacks should be expected, Russians are over stretched and out numbered so its sensible for the Ukies to attack them.

    Russians either need to deploy moe forces or shorten the frontline ASAP

    No, it makes no sense for the Ukrainians to attack the Russians in Kherson, or Sumy, or any such place 50-100km from the Russian border where a bunch of Russian planes can simply lift off and vaporize them, or Russian artillery can do the same job

    It's a bunch of offensives for the cameras, but its dangerous for the people involved. This is the sort of regime Russia is dealing with

    The only thing resembling an attack was the one near Sumy yesterday, where some Ukrainian territorial guard attacked a checkpoint and took out a tank, in return for their own losses and a destroyed Ukrainian SPG. Russia has not gotten around to clearing this area, it's a failure, but such a small-scale skirmish can hardly be called a counter-attack.


    and were you getting your information from?

    cause russians got pushed out of a few areas near Sumy.

    I'm getting my info from Telegram (including notorious pessimist Strelkov's channel) and a couple of YouTube channels. Also another forum.

    You don't always get the whole truth from there either, but it's a lot more reliable than the Ukrainian/Western propaganda machine.

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    Odin of Ossetia
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    Post  Odin of Ossetia Sun Mar 27, 2022 7:15 pm

    Odin of Ossetia wrote:
    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    Firebird wrote:
    FP wrote: here weren't any Polish SS volunteers or anything of the sort. In Russia we had Vlasov's army, but in Poland I should note they didn't have anything like that.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poles_in_the_Wehrmacht
    Well this is a Western source ie pro Polish. And even they add mass collaboration.

    Western sources about Polish crimes, aren't they the same "telling truth" about tens  of millions of Russians killed in Gulags? That Stalin and Hitler were like soul brothers? and millions of raped women  by Russian Army? tell me more about that. Copmngrats sources.


    As for Wehrmacht, you should learn history. Before IIWW Poles of German descent were drafted to Wehrmacht. Poland was pretty multiethnic those times. + Anybody living in Silesia was considered a German. My advice read with understanding,

    EOT in this topic



    In the parts of western and northern Poland incorporated into the Reich during late 1939 ethnic Poles were forcibly conscripted into the Wehrmacht. The word "forcibly" is the key word here, as almost nobody volunteered. Overall during WWII there were more ethnic Poles who served in the Wehrmacht, than there were Polish partisans.  Sad

    From those who served on the Eastern Front, a relatively small number defected to the Soviets, and later joined the Polish People's Army.

    There were also some who defected to the Allies elsewhere, and also to the local partisans in countries like Yugoslavia and Greece.


    There was a failed attempt to create an SS legion from a few hundred members of the Goralenvolk, but majority of them deserted after quarreling with some ethnic Ukrainian collaborators (in the quarrel the Germans apparently sided with the Ukrainians, and that upset most of the Gorals). The Polish Gorals (Mountaineers) are the inhabitants of the Polish Carpathians, and they do have significant German and Romanian ancestry.


    There was also some collaboration with the Germans by some Polish extreme right-wing "resistance", for example the top leadership of the MiP (apparently in secret from majority of the lower-ranking members), a significant portion of the NSZ, and some AK units (not only in Belarus and Lithuania, but also sporadically in Poland-proper).

    http://michalw.narod.ru/index-ZiemiLubelskiej.html



    In case of the ethnic Germans from Poland, obviously lots of them served in the various police formations, and also in the German government apparatus; the Sonderdienst (Special Service) which existed in the General Governorship (GG) consisted entirely of them.

    http://michalw.narod.ru/index-GL42.html


    In addition to it also the deceptively named Selbstschutz (Selfdefence), which existed during 1939-1940 in both the GG and the parts of Poland incorporated into the Reich.

    Reportedly many ethnic Germans from Poland also served in the Waffen-SS (Armed SS).

    Besides these, there were also the Landwacht (Rural Sentry) and Stadtwacht (Urban Sentry) reserve formations, which existed until 1944, when they were both disbanded and transformed into the Volkssturm (Popular Assault).







    A very disappointing and poorly researched article about ethnic Polish collaboration:


    Collaboration in a "Land Without a Quisling."

    https://www.cambridge.org/core/services/aop-cambridge-core/content/view/72DC550B5F1E668EF8DADD0E5A46C9D5/S0037677900031454a.pdf/div-class-title-collaboration-in-a-land-without-a-quisling-patterns-of-cooperation-with-the-nazi-german-occupation-regime-in-poland-during-world-war-ii-div.pdf



    The author is a German who makes some strange insinuations like that the RGO was "collaborationist" while in reality it was a charitable organization that the Germans permitted to function.

    And the author's claim that "in Communist Poland it was claimed there was no ethnic Polish collaboration" is a very obvious blatant lie, which I know first hand from many books and articles I have read that were published in the PRL.

    On the other hand, he fails to mention many instances of real ethnic Polish collaboration which indeed took place, which I have mentioned in my previous post above.

    On top of that, something the article apparently does mention, there was lots of ethnic Polish "non-organized" collaboration purely for personal gain.





    Last edited by Odin of Ossetia on Sun Mar 27, 2022 7:23 pm; edited 1 time in total
    auslander
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    Post  auslander Sun Mar 27, 2022 7:15 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:It will depend on what the Ukies gain from their counterattacks. They will likely make small gains,

    Counter attacks should be expected, Russians are over stretched and out numbered so its sensible for the Ukies to attack them.

    Russians either need to deploy moe forces or shorten the frontline ASAP

    No, it makes no sense for the Ukrainians to attack the Russians in Kherson, or Sumy, or any such place 50-100km from the Russian border where a bunch of Russian planes can simply lift off and vaporize them, or Russian artillery can do the same job

    It's a bunch of offensives for the cameras, but its dangerous for the people involved. This is the sort of regime Russia is dealing with

    The only thing resembling an attack was the one near Sumy yesterday, where some Ukrainian territorial guard attacked a checkpoint and took out a tank, in return for their own losses and a destroyed Ukrainian SPG. Russia has not gotten around to clearing this area, it's a failure, but such a small-scale skirmish can hardly be called a counter-attack.


    and were you getting your information from?

    cause russians got pushed out of a few areas near Sumy.

    Does your precious green beret from Dier still fit? There's a reason you've been on kosmik ignore for years but a little comic relief is always a giggle.

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    SeigSoloyvov
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Sun Mar 27, 2022 7:17 pm

    As you recently lost two your children, I will refrain from any remarks.

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    Post  Regular Sun Mar 27, 2022 7:23 pm

    auslander wrote:

    FFS, pleae put a cognizant link for a video. I don't have and will never have twitter, shchmitter, shitter, whatever. Either that or I'll just put you on 'ignore' for useless bovine scatology and be done with it. I can get all I want but you, in theory, make it easier.

    In this case, there's literally no need to watch the uncensored video. It's absolute madness and cruelty. Torture of the defenseless. Even oh so cruel Chechens during 080808 war instead of shooting Georgian POW legs they hurt index fingers so they won't be shooting at Ossetians when they are released. Painful, but not deadly, and not life-altering/ending injury.

    Below picture of Georgian servicemen with broken index fingers, takes 3-4 months to fully heal, out of action until then.

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #8 - Page 23 Image31

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    Ispan
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    Post  Ispan Sun Mar 27, 2022 7:24 pm

    flamming_python wrote:

    You're really not taking into account Ukrainian geography

    It's a lot of forests all throughout the east and north-east. You can only travel by the roads.


    Point taken. I am aware that Ukraine is not steppe and of the "green" and the forest belt from Slavyansk to Lugansk and all the other obstacles like rivers and lakes. It helped the defense in 2014.

    So your point is that massed armor and infantry can't operate there because of the forest channeling the attacker? That the ukrops are only sending a couple batallions to Izyum because no more can be deployed.

    All right. At least this time you are saying something that makes sense. I am removing you from the ignore list. I don't consider you a foe, by the way, but some things you say are so absurd Rolling Eyes



    As for the concentration of forces, this has been addressed before. No-one's building Blitzkrieg spearheads. Russia is tying down Ukrainian forces across a large front, it's deep order battle. But at the moment its only focused on advancing and exploiting the advance in the Donbass and Kharkov areas.

    I understand that, the paralyizing effect it has had on Ukrainian forces to bottle them up inside cities and lay siege with few forces.

    I understand the offensive in the North East is not easy because of terrain, of forest and plenty cities and that's why the Lugansk advance has stalled at Severodonetsk.

    What does not make sense is why they aren't attacking at least with a combined regiment in the south front, in the steppe southwest of Donetsk. Yes there are many villages but one full battallion of tanks, or about 50 tanks supported by two batallions of infantry could easily break through and drive for Slavyansk, instead of taking one village after another like in the First World War, advancing a few kilometers everyday.

    This headbutting against Marinka and Avdeyevka and other places like Popasnaya makes no sense, unless it's tying down about 5.000 Ukrainian troops there to prevent them from redeploying to face the big breakthrough.

    So in conclusion, Russian forces are dispersed because the terrain doesn't allow for mass armored thrusts.

    Makes one wonder why instead of trying to breakthrough thru the bottleneck of Izyum why the Russian army is not aiming for cutting the lines of supply at a longer distance and advance through the more open ground farther to the west, somewhere between Poltava and Kharkov.

    dunno

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    auslander
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    Post  auslander Sun Mar 27, 2022 7:24 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:As you recently lost two your children, I will refrain from any remarks.

    Deal. Please forgive me for my rudeness.

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    auslander
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    Post  auslander Sun Mar 27, 2022 7:35 pm

    From more peaceful, more calm times. Language don't matter, melody does.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hyc3rrsEiE4&list=RDGMEMc6JZQrQ__ROET3gGdz-Trw&start_radio=1&rv=gkqlhjJHtMo

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    Post  ucmvulcan Sun Mar 27, 2022 7:40 pm

    auslander wrote:From more peaceful, more calm times. Language don't matter, melody does.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hyc3rrsEiE4&list=RDGMEMc6JZQrQ__ROET3gGdz-Trw&start_radio=1&rv=gkqlhjJHtMo

    My Russian is a bit rusty, but Walk by the Don by the Voronezh Choir? Very beautiful. Speaking of the Don, what is your opinion of Mikhail Sholokhov's Quiet Don?
    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python Sun Mar 27, 2022 7:48 pm

    Ispan wrote:
    I understand that, the paralyizing effect it has had on Ukrainian forces to bottle them up inside cities and lay siege with few forces.

    I understand the offensive in the North East is not easy because of terrain, of forest and plenty cities and that's why the Lugansk advance has stalled at Severodonetsk.

    What does not make sense is why they aren't attacking at least with a combined regiment in the south front, in the steppe southwest of Donetsk. Yes there are many villages but one full battallion of tanks, or about 50 tanks supported by two batallions of infantry could easily break through and drive for Slavyansk, instead of taking one village after another like in the First World War, advancing a few kilometers everyday.

    This headbutting against Marinka and Avdeyevka and other places like Popasnaya makes no sense, unless it's tying down about 5.000 Ukrainian troops there to prevent them from redeploying to face the big breakthrough.

    So in conclusion, Russian forces are dispersed because the terrain doesn't allow for mass armored thrusts.

    Makes one wonder why instead of trying to breakthrough thru the bottleneck of Izyum why the Russian army is not aiming for cutting the lines of supply at a longer distance and advance through the more open ground farther to the west, somewhere between Poltava and Kharkov.

    dunno

    Strelkov was making the same points, r.e. the headbutting against Marinka, Avdeyevka, and so on.

    Yeah I like Strelkov would have expected Russia to simply encircle the armies in the Donbass via a thrust from Crimea/Kherson and from Kharkov.

    But it was only done partially. Maybe because that's what the Ukrainians expected and had a large amount of ambush artillery points? Or maybe the propaganda effect of letting the DNR/LNR liberate their own territories (thus cynically saving Russian troops lives too)?

    Anyone with the taking of Izyum and the redeployment from Kherson it looks like envelopment will be the scenario gone for now, eventually.

    Lot of things we can only guess about in this conflict. How strategies, objectives changed, etc..
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    Post  auslander Sun Mar 27, 2022 7:51 pm

    River Don is our river of life. So man songs of him, but this one is in my uneducated opinion the best. Combine this one with this one and you have my Mat Rossiya.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJcnuZB4Xt4

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    Post  Scorpius Sun Mar 27, 2022 7:55 pm

    auslander wrote:
    Isos wrote:Ukrainians shooting on captured russians !! Graphic video.  

    FFS, pleae put a cognizant link for a video. I don't have and will never have twitter, shchmitter, shitter, whatever. Either that or I'll just put you on 'ignore' for useless bovine scatology and be done with it. I can get all I want but you, in theory, make it easier.

    Already on YouTube.

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    Post  Isos Sun Mar 27, 2022 8:09 pm

    auslander wrote:
    Isos wrote:Ukrainians shooting on captured russians !! Graphic video.  
    []

    FFS, pleae put a cognizant link for a video. I don't have and will never have twitter, shchmitter, shitter, whatever. Either that or I'll just put you on 'ignore' for useless bovine scatology and be done with it. I can get all I want but you, in theory, make it easier.

    Well I shared it because it is important to see what and who does such things.

    Twitter may be full of shit but it is the place where you can found images, videos and proofs of what happens.

    The forum allows to embedd and share twitter posts so I will keep doing that. I follow rules of the forum not yours. You are free to not watch them and just scroll down to the next post.
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    Post  Airbornewolf Sun Mar 27, 2022 8:14 pm

    DHL here, I got an Ukro Mortar Team for you.
    Please sign for reception right here.....

    https://t.me/boris_rozhin/37099

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    Post  flamming_python Sun Mar 27, 2022 8:15 pm

    While Russia has redeployed its forces from Kherson, and some from around Kiev and Kharkov - to closing the Donbass pocket

    No news on Mariupol all day, far as we know the Azovites are still chilling in the Azov Steel works

    It smells like a deal may be getting put together

    The Ukro-Russian talks are scheduled in Turkey tommorow I think

    The Azeri provocations in Karabakh are part of it, to put pressure on Russia (Iran has already said it would intervene to protect Armenia in response),
    as is the French-Turkish-Greek mission to evacuate the Azov battalion from Mariupol,
    Ukrainians have pulled up a large number of forces to the Kherson-Nikolayev regional border, which may be part of the pressure, or more likely - the deal

    Russia may get LNR/DNR recognition, and a neutral Ukraine. Maybe taking Kherson as well and Melitopol, and it would get its side of the story told as well in Western media as evidence has been put together and there are journalists on the Russian side from European countries as well (although not from any mainstream media). And possibly sanctions relief and a release of its funds, in return for part of those funds being used to rebuild the Ukraine via contracts for European companies.

    But overall I don't like it. Especially if Kherson, Melitopol are given up, that would a great betrayal, as well as the settlements around Kharkov that accepted Russian forces.
    Another big problem would be this myth of great Ukrainian resistance that would be used to cement the Ukraine as an anti-Russia.
    I don't think the war should have been started, but at this point there's no turning back. Putin and his staff miscalculated a lot of things, but what's the alternative now. The regime has to be toppled and the state rebuilt.

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    Post  Airbornewolf Sun Mar 27, 2022 8:20 pm

    Pictures from the taking of mariupol.

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    Arrow


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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #8 - Page 23 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #8

    Post  Arrow Sun Mar 27, 2022 8:25 pm

    A neutral Ukraine after the withdrawal of Russian troops is a joke.  NATO troops will soon enter there and Ukraine will be heavily armed.  If this happens, it will be a defeat for Russia.  Acquiring Donbas itself is also a failure.
    Kyiv will not make any deals. It has a very strong position and Russia has a weak position at present.

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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #8 - Page 23 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #8

    Post  flamming_python Sun Mar 27, 2022 8:28 pm

    Arrow wrote:


    A neutral Ukraine after the withdrawal of Russian troops is a joke.  NATO troops will soon enter there and Ukraine will be heavily armed.  If this happens, it will be a defeat for Russia.  Acquiring Donbas itself is also a failure.

    At this point yes

    It could only have been a thing if it were agreed to before hostilities

    So in practice, the Russian leadership has no choice but to keep going

    Severe miscalculation by Russian command - political, economical, military.
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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #8 - Page 23 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #8

    Post  ucmvulcan Sun Mar 27, 2022 8:28 pm

    flamming_python wrote:While Russia has redeployed its forces from Kherson, and some from around Kiev and Kharkov - to closing the Donbass pocket

    No news on Mariupol all day, far as we know the Azovites are still chilling in the Azov Steel works

    It smells like a deal may be getting put together

    The Ukro-Russian talks are scheduled in Turkey tommorow I think

    The Azeri provocations in Karabakh are part of it, to put pressure on Russia (Iran has already said it would intervene to protect Armenia in response),
    as is the French-Turkish-Greek mission to evacuate the Azov battalion from Mariupol,
    Ukrainians have pulled up a large number of forces to the Kherson-Nikolayev regional border, which may be part of the pressure, or more likely - the deal

    Russia may get LNR/DNR recognition, and a neutral Ukraine. Maybe taking Kherson as well and Melitopol, and it would get its side of the story told as well in Western media as evidence has been put together and there are journalists on the Russian side from European countries as well (although not from any mainstream media). And possibly sanctions relief and a release of its funds, in return for part of those funds being used to rebuild the Ukraine via contracts for European companies.

    But overall I don't like it. Especially if Kherson, Melitopol are given up, that would a great betrayal, as well as the settlements around Kharkov that accepted Russian forces.
    Another big problem would be this myth of great Ukrainian resistance that would be used to cement the Ukraine as an anti-Russia.
    I don't think the war should have been started, but at this point there's no turning back. Putin and his staff miscalculated a lot of things, but what's the alternative now. The regime has to be toppled and the state rebuilt.

    As much as I hope for peace, that deal is not going to lead to lasting peace. NATO will be in Ukraine within weeks to rebuild Ukraine and then provocations will be launched to restart the war and not one damn sanction will be lifted. Putin is dealing with a snake that wants to destroy him. The Russians have to get control of the country to at least the east bank of the Dniepr before any talks with the Zelensky regime can be started.

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