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    Ukraine situation after DPR, LPR recognition by Russia

    ATLASCUB
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    Post  ATLASCUB Tue Feb 22, 2022 8:58 pm

    I agree. Time will clear the air.

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    d_taddei2
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    Post  d_taddei2 Tue Feb 22, 2022 9:00 pm

    Well these are the so-called sanctions lol! I doubt Russia is worried about such sanctions they knew they were coming are prepared for this. And quite frankly these sanctions are not exactly economy destroying.

    Just for clarification NS2 has only been suspended not cancelled.


    "The US president announced the first tranche of sanctions against Russia, which target VEB and its military bank, Russia's sovereign debt, and imposes sanctions on Russian "elites and their families." He also said he had worked with German Chancellor Olaf Scholz to ensure that the Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline, which would have brought liquefied natural gas from Russia to German, will not open"

    https://sputniknews.com/20220222/biden-vows-to-impose-sanctions-far-beyond-earlier-ones-on-russia--1093280509.html

    Earlier, the presidents of the European Council and the European Commission announced that the EU would sanction several Russian banks and restrict the Russian state's access to the EU's financial markets over Moscow’s decision to recognise the Donetsk and Lugansk People's Republics (DPR and LPR) on 21 February.
    According to him, the bloc will limit the Russian state and government’s access to the European capital and financial markets. The EU top diplomat further promised Russian banks that "financed" Russia's decision on recognising DPR and LPR, and its operations in Donbass, will also face sanctions.

    In total, some 27 persons and entities outside of the Russian government will be slapped with sanctions.

    Apart from targeting banks and financial market access, the EU will also introduce a number of personal sanctions against Russian government officials engaged in passing the decision to recognise the Donbass republics, Borrell indicated. A total of 351 lawmakers from the Russian parliament's lower chamber, the State Duma, will be hit with sanctions

    https://sputniknews.com/20220222/eu-foreign-minister-european-sanctions-to-hit-russian-govts-access-to-capital-financial-markets-1093279149.html

    Today, the UK is sanctioning the following five Russian banks: Rossiya, IS Bank, General Bank, Promsvyazbank, and the Black Sea Bank, and we're sanctioning three very high net worth individuals", Johnson told parliament on Tuesday.

    https://sputniknews.com/20220222/uk-and-allies-begin-imposing-sanctions-on-russia-boris-johnson-says-1093270511.html
    d_taddei2
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    Post  d_taddei2 Tue Feb 22, 2022 9:03 pm

    International Observers: US, NATO & Kiev Laid the Groundwork for Donbass Independence Recognition

    In the wake of the Kremlin's recognition of Donetsk and Lugansk, the US, UK, and EU promised more sanctions on Russia. However, these are not the tough measures they have threatened Moscow with for the past few months. Rather, they are comparable to the sanctions adopted by the West after Crimea's reunification with Russia, according to reports.

    https://sputniknews.com/20220222/international-observers-us-nato--kiev-laid-the-groundwork-for-donbass-independence-recognition-1093275283.html

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    ATLASCUB
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    Post  ATLASCUB Tue Feb 22, 2022 9:21 pm

    Russia is being decoupled from the West little by little, from financial services, to access to capital, to access to tech, to access to western markets. Picture perfect containment policy. The Chinese and Asia are not currently perfect substitutes for such loss - there are no parallel structures. Moreover, sanctions of these kind can have extraterritorial reach, if decided to be levied, by those that enact them. In which case, it doesn't just extend to Western markets, and a specific geographic area but to foreign enterprises in third countries that will buckle, easily, under Western pressure. It's the "you either do business with us or with the Russians" conundrum. Not all enterprises will chose to keep doing business so as to avoid the risk. Even those enterprises that chose business with Russia over the West due believed lack of exposure or the nature of the economic activity can still be coerced by punitive sanction measures - level of which range from a slap in the wrist to bankruptcy level "fines". It's extreme coercion. Ask Cuba and Venezuela - they know all about it - Russia and China, while they help, can't fully substitute.

    These will hurt, and they're not even the nuclear ones. As such, as I've argued here endlessly: If you're going to bring so much pain to yourself, you better get rid of the little Kiev problem once and for all, not allow it to linger, while still paying the price for it as if you did get rid of it (while you clearly haven't). It's Putin's and cadre's call, ever since that fateful day in 2014 where this went overdrive (by design) and he balked.

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    owais.usmani


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    Post  owais.usmani Tue Feb 22, 2022 9:51 pm





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    thegopnik
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    Post  thegopnik Tue Feb 22, 2022 9:58 pm

    So if the republics are recognized and Ukrainian military shells them that means they will get shelled back this time?

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    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Tue Feb 22, 2022 9:59 pm

    ATLASCUB wrote:Russia is being decoupled from the West little by little, from financial services, to access to capital, to access to tech, to access to western markets. Picture perfect containment policy. The Chinese and Asia are not currently perfect substitutes for such loss - there are no parallel structures. Moreover, sanctions of these kind can have extraterritorial reach, if decided to be levied, by those that enact them. In which case, it doesn't just extend to Western markets, and a specific geographic area but to foreign enterprises in third countries that will buckle, easily, under Western pressure. It's the "you either do business with us or with the Russians" conundrum. And even if they chose Russia, the cost of sanction levied as punitive measure for such decision can even bankrupt these entities. Ask Cuba and Venezuela - they know all about it - Russia and China, while they help, can't substitute.

    These will hurt, and they're not even the nuclear ones. As such, as I've argued here endlessly: If you're going to bring so much pain to yourself, you better get rid of the little Kiev problem once and for all, not allow it to linger, while still paying the price for it as if you did get rid of it (while you clearly haven't). It's Putin's and cadre's call, ever since that fateful day in 2014 where this went overdrive (by design) and he balked.

    You persist in thinking that the future will be a continuation of the past without taking into account the changes that are taking place.

    The relative strengths of the US, EU, Russia and China have changed a lot over the last decade, politically, economically and militarily and it isn't in the favour of the first two.

    The US has poked today's fighting fit bear, not the mangy one of a couple of decades ago that many in the West still think it is.

    Russia got what it had to secure in 2014, Crimea, effectively a gift under the Law of Unintended Consequences from the US/EU botched revolution. It took a strategic decision that it had more important things to do than get tied down in Ukraine, so it left it to fester at low cost to itself. In 2022 it has the confidence to sort it out.

    Confidence well placed, just look at the weak sanctions Biden has just announced, on top of the best the EU could muster. Sanctions are done, a busted flush, down to the level that both sides are hurt with potentially the sanctioner hurt most. It probably isn't even worth Russia doing anything in return.

    The World can now see that the US is not the power it was, this whole operation, seemingly designed to help Biden domestically, has morphed into a strategic blunder of monumental proportions, almost certainly a whole row of nails in the US$ coffin.

    Now watch Syria.

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    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Tue Feb 22, 2022 10:00 pm

    thegopnik wrote:So if the republics are recognized and Ukrainian military shells them that means they will get shelled back this time?

    Pretty certain that they did whenever they could, often pretty devastatingly.

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    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Tue Feb 22, 2022 10:01 pm

    Ukraine situation after DPR, LPR recognition by Russia - Page 9 FMN-rVyXwAc18tN?format=jpg&name=small

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    Hole
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    Post  Hole Tue Feb 22, 2022 10:07 pm


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    Arkanghelsk
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    Post  Arkanghelsk Tue Feb 22, 2022 10:08 pm

    Those are some tremendous sanctions!!!

    Futures soaring, oil at 100!

    Jesus Christ ! Keep em coming Joe!

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    Post  Broski Tue Feb 22, 2022 10:09 pm

    owais.usmani wrote:

    Last I checked, Kyiv was the Capital of Kievan Rus and has as much to do with modern day Ukraine as Turkey does with Constantinople.

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    kvs
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    Post  kvs Tue Feb 22, 2022 10:19 pm

    The reason Muskovy became the local power center was because the Tatar-Mongol hordes destroyed Kiev. These retarded
    posts from bloody US hypocrites are pure shit. There was no Ukraine in 1108. There was none until the Grand Duchy of Lithuania
    occupied the lands overlapping Kiev and assimilated what few people lived there. This is where the "Ukrainian" identity originates.
    Ukr nazionalists steal the history of Kievan Rus and claim that it was all Ukrian. They also claim Russians have nothing to do with
    Kievan Rus and are not even Slavs.


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    Hole
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    Post  Hole Tue Feb 22, 2022 10:25 pm



    Which also means Russia could lower the oil production a little and see how the markets react... Twisted Evil

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    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible Tue Feb 22, 2022 10:44 pm

    Bryan MacDonald is still stuck in thinking Europe only exists and not Asia.

    If Russian energy is sanctioned, China will just buy up, same with India, Vietnam as well. Possibly S.Korea. the rest will end up suffering.

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    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible Tue Feb 22, 2022 10:47 pm

    kvs wrote:The reason Muskovy became the local power center was because the Tatar-Mongol hordes destroyed Kiev.   These retarded
    posts from bloody US hypocrites are pure shit.   There was no Ukraine in 1108.   There was none until the Grand Duchy of Lithuania
    occupied the lands overlapping Kiev and assimilated what few people lived there.   This is where the "Ukrainian" identity originates.
    Ukr nazionalists steal the history of Kievan Rus and claim that it was all Ukrian.   They also claim Russians have nothing to do with
    Kievan Rus and are not even Slavs.    



    Ukrainians and Americans are a new group of people who have to play make belief regarding their nation's history.

    Look at US now, complete historical revisionism going on just in their own country alone.

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    Singular_Transform
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    Post  Singular_Transform Tue Feb 22, 2022 11:02 pm

    ATLASCUB wrote:Russia is being decoupled from the West little by little, from financial services, to access to capital, to access to tech, to access to western markets. Picture perfect containment policy. The Chinese and Asia are not currently perfect substitutes for such loss - there are no parallel structures. Moreover, sanctions of these kind can have extraterritorial reach, if decided to be levied, by those that enact them. In which case, it doesn't just extend to Western markets, and a specific geographic area but to foreign enterprises in third countries that will buckle, easily, under Western pressure. It's the "you either do business with us or with the Russians" conundrum. Not all enterprises will chose to keep doing business so as to avoid the risk. Even those enterprises that chose business with Russia over the West due believed lack of exposure or the nature of the economic activity can still be coerced by punitive sanction measures - level of which range from a slap in the wrist to bankruptcy level "fines". It's extreme coercion. Ask Cuba and Venezuela - they know all about it - Russia and China, while they help, can't fully substitute.

    These will hurt, and they're not even the nuclear ones. As such, as I've argued here endlessly: If you're going to bring so much pain to yourself, you better get rid of the little Kiev problem once and for all, not allow it to linger, while still paying the price for it as if you did get rid of it (while you clearly haven't). It's Putin's and cadre's call, ever since that fateful day in 2014 where this went overdrive (by design) and he balked.

    Do you know anything about Game Theory ?

    If they cut off all relationship with Russia, then using force loose all deterence.

    It will be similar situation like USA vs Japan, like what prewented the USA to bomb few nuclear bombo onto Japan ?
    SeigSoloyvov
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Tue Feb 22, 2022 11:10 pm

    So NS2 got the boot and Russia is getting clamped hard, I thought the experts here said that'd never happen. More sanctions will be on the way, You don't roll out all sanctions at once you need to do them piece by piece.

    Not to mention if Putin doesn't enter Ukraine now, this only made its case for NATO stronger. Now that NS2, harder sanctions are coming, He has no real reason not to go in.


    Last edited by SeigSoloyvov on Tue Feb 22, 2022 11:15 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Post  PapaDragon Tue Feb 22, 2022 11:10 pm


    We need to clarify something here, this decision was not pulled out of someone's ass at random, Russian government has way more info about what's going on than anyone on the internet so if they decided to recognize two republics and willingly trigger sanction response it means that they either:

    1) Knew that sanctions would have been introduced anyway

    2) Have done the math and knew that they can absorb the shock

    My guess is that both happened and funny part is that it was probably those ''accursed'' economist from Central Bank headed by Nabulina who crunched the numbers and came to that conclusion which made this decision possible  




    As for comparisons with USSR that have been flying lately and criticism from FlammingPython I would just like to emphasise that Russia is most definitely NOT Soviet Union

    Soviets were extremely insecure, cowardly, obsessed with appearances and desperate to be accepted by the cool kids of the world (the same cool kids that they were supposedly fighting against) and had no qualms about getting as many Russians killed as needed in order to fit in and not rock the boat

    Russia has proven that it definitely doesn’t give a flying f*ck about appearances and that it's fully focused on securing it's national interests just like any normal nation should




    Take Soviet-Afghan War for example: USSR was throwing Russian boys into the the fire while weapons that Jihadists were using to kill them have been funnelled through Pakistan and not a single thing was done  about it because USSR was a colossal insecure pussy and because they couldn’t care less about how many Russians died there

    Had modern day Russia been fighting that war and learned that weapons were coming through Pakistan they would have incinerated that whole place for the crime of trying to be funny with them, called the UN meeting and asked: ''Who will be my next dead bitch?''


    And this same thing will happen to any country that would try to pull anything resembling this in 404 if it leads to anything even close to that level Russian casualties, NATO member or no NATO member which is why nobody will be trying anything

    They know the difference I'm talking about




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    Post  Urluber Tue Feb 22, 2022 11:25 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:So NS2 got the boot and Russia is getting clamped hard, I thought the experts here said that'd never happen. More sanctions will be on the way, You don't roll out all sanctions at once you need to do them piece by piece.

    Not to mention if Putin doesn't enter Ukraine now, this only made its case for NATO stronger. Now that NS2, harder sanctions are coming, He has no real reason not to go in.

    I saw list of "sactioned companies" on Russian media and only one I recognized was VEB bank.

    And the iphones will still keep flowing apparently! Which is a bit shame. It's a spy tool of US government after all (which probably is the reason they didn't prohibit their sales to Russia). Maybe Russia could do counter sanctions and ban sale of iphones in Russia?

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    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible Tue Feb 22, 2022 11:32 pm

    Urluber wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:So NS2 got the boot and Russia is getting clamped hard, I thought the experts here said that'd never happen. More sanctions will be on the way, You don't roll out all sanctions at once you need to do them piece by piece.

    Not to mention if Putin doesn't enter Ukraine now, this only made its case for NATO stronger. Now that NS2, harder sanctions are coming, He has no real reason not to go in.

    I saw list of "sactioned companies" on Russian media and only one I recognized was VEB bank.

    And the iphones will still keep flowing apparently! Which is a bit shame. It's a spy tool of US government after all (which probably is the reason they didn't prohibit their sales to Russia). Maybe Russia could do counter sanctions and ban sale of iphones in Russia?

    Would be good, those devices are abysmal anyway.

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    Post  Big_Gazza Tue Feb 22, 2022 11:42 pm

    George1 wrote:Ukrainian army deploys five Buk-M1 anti-aircraft missile systems in Donbass — DPR militia

    https://tass.com/world/1408391

    Maybe this time the Ukronazis will restrain themselves and not shoot down an airliner? clown

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    Post  Azi Tue Feb 22, 2022 11:47 pm

    In addition, Russia can arm the Houthi rebels with weapons and inflict serious damage on oil production. Furthermore, Russia can sabotage the almost completed Iran deal, which would never have happened without Russia. If the USA/EU overdo it with the sanctions, the global economy will collapse.

    The West is in a weak position as it acts "morally" and enters a dangerous spiral. The West could get out of it well, sometimes even with a profit, but morally it would lose face and the entire left-liberal narrative would collapse.

    The West will escalate to the point where there is serious questioning about sending NATO troops into Ukraine. Then it comes down to accepting a limited nuclear exchange or admitting defeat. The Western economy can exist without russian resources, but it will lose radically to China. With the resources provided by Russia, China will secure all market share in Latin America, throughout Asia and Africa. They will NEVER allow this and prefer to seek an open confrontation. Realistically, they will accept their defeat and let the fake news knit a victory out of it. Will that go well...the population is stupid, but is it really that stupid?


    Dangerous times!


    Last edited by Azi on Tue Feb 22, 2022 11:51 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Post  bitcointrader70 Tue Feb 22, 2022 11:48 pm

    Big_Gazza wrote:
    George1 wrote:Ukrainian army deploys five Buk-M1 anti-aircraft missile systems in Donbass — DPR militia

    https://tass.com/world/1408391

    Maybe this time the Ukronazis will restrain themselves and not shoot down an airliner? clown

    Russian rebels a lot of fucking retards are the one who shot it down. This has proven over and over everywhere. It’s fair play by me. It was a big mistake. I wouldn’t admit to it either. Ukraine is ultimately to blame for not diverting air traffic over a war zone

    Ruble seems to be holding up ok. My friends in Russia aren’t too worried. This first wave of sanctions isn’t that bad. We will see. Maybe Russia is finally independent enough to where sanctions won’t matter.

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    Post  Arkanghelsk Tue Feb 22, 2022 11:49 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:So NS2 got the boot and Russia is getting clamped hard, I thought the experts here said that'd never happen. More sanctions will be on the way, You don't roll out all sanctions at once you need to do them piece by piece.

    Not to mention if Putin doesn't enter Ukraine now, this only made its case for NATO stronger. Now that NS2, harder sanctions are coming, He has no real reason not to go in.
    Except NS2 did not get the boot lmfao, it was "suspended" 

    Clamped hard? Where ? Russia has supported Putin overwhelmingly 

    NATO has run away to Poland and the US vacated the AOR

    I'd say par for the course ,

    US soft power is at this point non existent ,

    With Belarus and Ukraine vacated, Russia has established its buffer zone

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