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    Western propaganda #2

    kvs
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    Post  kvs Sat Nov 30, 2024 12:53 pm

    Macron has visited the newly rebuilt Notre Dame cathedral. All I have seen is fawning coverage of the reconstruction; about how it used
    "authentic" methods. Blah, blah, blah. No snide remarks about lack of authenticity like in the case of Christ the Saviour cathedral in Moscow.
    Because only the original is authentic. bounce The cathedral in Moscow was rebuilt with proper methods to restore its existence. As with the
    cathedral in Paris, there is no need to spend 60 years on the construction project.

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    higurashihougi
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    Post  higurashihougi Sun Dec 01, 2024 4:56 pm

    @flamingpython, garry, kvs:

    https://monthlyreview.org/2024/11/01/the-new-denial-of-imperialism-on-the-left/

    However, today this Marxist theory of imperialism is commonly being rejected in large part, if not in its entirety, by self-proclaimed socialists in the West with a Eurocentric bias. Hence, the gap between the views of imperialism held by the Western left and those of revolutionary movements in the Global South is wider than at any time in the last century. The waning of U.S. hegemony has been coupled with the attempt of the United States/NATO to create a unipolar world order dominated by Washington. In this extreme polarized context many on the left now deny the economic exploitation of the periphery by the core imperialist countries.

    Thus, we are now commonly confronted with such contradictory propositions, emanating from the Western left, as: (...) (5) imperialist nations can be judged primarily on a democratic-authoritarian spectrum, so that not all imperialisms are created equal; (6) imperialism is simply a political policy of aggression of one state against another; (7) humanitarian imperialism designed to protect human rights is justified; ( 8 ) the dominant classes in the Global South are no longer anti-imperialist;  (...) (11) China and the United States head rival imperialist blocs; (...)

    Denial of the reality of imperialism in full or in part has a long history in the Western Eurocentric left beginning with the outright “social imperialism” of the Fabian Society in Britain, and reflected in the social chauvinism of all of the main European social democratic parties at the time of the First World War. However, with the resurgence of the Western left in the post-Second World War period, particularly in the 1960s and ’70s, Western socialists adopted a strongly anti-imperialist stance, backing national liberation struggles around the world. This began to fade with the waning of the anti-Vietnam War movement in the early 1970s. (...) the rejection by the Eurocentric left of the conclusion that countries of the capitalist core exploited those of the periphery, through higher rates of exploitation of workers in dependent countries, and the resulting appropriation of a large part of this enormous surplus by the imperialist countries at the center of the system.

    It has long been argued by Eurocentric socialists that a higher rate of productivity in the Global North canceled out the wage differential between North and South to the point that the level of exploitation in the North was actually higher than in the South. However, this thesis of a higher rate of exploitation in the North has now been definitively disproven (..) study has shown that even when accounting for productivity/skill levels, which are now comparable in export manufacturing in the Global South and in the Global North (since the very same technology, introduced by multinational corporations, is utilized), the rate of exploitation is much higher in the Global South, with its much lower unit labor costs. Indeed, the current trend toward the outright denial of imperialism theory can be attributed in part to an attempt in the face of this growing evidence to avoid the reality of the center’s superexploitation of the periphery by abandoning the whole question of imperialism. At the root of the criticisms of economic imperialism emanating from Western Eurocentric circles has been the rejection of Engels’s and Lenin’s labor aristocracy thesis.

    Another theoretical development characteristic of the Western Eurocentric left has been the adoption in stripped-down fashion of Lenin’s theory of imperialism, seen as a mere model of horizontal interimperialist conflict between great powers. Here, China and Russia are portrayed as constituting a single bloc (though representing very different political-economic systems), engaged in an imperialist rivalry with the triad of the United States, Europe, and Japan. (...) Imperialism, in this new view, is no longer associated primarily with the global exploitative role of the great imperial powers, such as the United States, Britain, Germany, France, Italy, and Japan, which, making up the center of the capitalist world-system, have dominated the centuries-long history of imperialism. Rather, the characterization of imperialist states is extended to semiperipheral and emerging economies, now classified as imperialist or subimperialist, in the spirit of seeing imperialism primarily in horizontal rather than vertical terms.

    The interimperialist argument [the one that is used to deny the existence of Western imperialism] today depends on presenting the People’s Republic of China as an imperialist (and straightforwardly capitalist) power in the same sense as the United States, disregarding the role of “socialism with Chinese characteristics” and the whole Chinese road to development, as well as processes of unequal exchange. Yet, such attempts on the Western Eurocentric left to designate China as imperialist can come up with no more basis for this than to note the rapid economic growth of China; its expanding capital exports; its measures to enhance its own regional security (in the face of an encirclement by U.S. military bases and alliances); and its questioning of the imperial rules-based order under the domination of the United States and the West. We are led to believe that China is imperialist, since it “occupies significant maritime space” in its region; governs Hong Kong (no longer a British colony but returned to China); interferes in other countries via its Belt and Road Initiative aimed at promoting economic development; and has been known on occasion to use debt as a means of political-economic leverage.

    More difficult still for those seeking to characterize China as imperialist in the classical sense is that rather than seeking to join the U.S.-dominated rules-based imperial order or to replace it with what could be considered a new imperialist order, Chinese foreign policy has been geared to promoting the self-determination of nations, while opposing bloc geopolitics and military interventions. Beijing’s threefold Global Security Initiative, Global Development Initiative, and Global Civilization Initiative together constitute the leading proposals for world peace in our era. The People’s Republic of China has few military bases abroad, has not carried out any overseas military interventions, and has not engaged in wars at all except in relation to the defense of its own borders.

    In sharp contrast to China, the United States over its history has intervened militarily in 101 countries, some of these multiple times. Since the Second World War, it has carried out hundreds of wars/military interventions/coups on five continents. These interventions have accelerated since the dissolution of the Soviet Union and the end of the Cold War. Today, in the context of a New Cold War, Washington is expanding its chain of military alliances explicitly aimed at insuring its military preeminence in every region of the world. The United States has 902 military bases abroad (with some four hundred of these surrounding China itself). The United Kingdom, acting as a junior partner, meanwhile, has 145 foreign military bases.
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    Post  flamming_python Sun Dec 01, 2024 11:59 pm

    When it comes to China and Russia, they fit the classical definition of empires; going all the way back to the Babylonians. We can add Iran to the list. Turkey. And a bunch of other countries too that were created through imperial expansion processes and maintain some of the characteristics of empires today, or have ambitions beyond their borders, even though now long since modern states.

    But when Lenin was talking about Imperialism he was talking about a specific process in the 19th-20th centuries that culminated with the entire world being owned by the European powers. And that process today has its successor in neo-colonialism - which matches Lenin's thesis exactly even 100 years on. And it is not practiced by China, Russia, Iran or any of these emerging economies. It is today as it was yesterday - specific to the West and its model.

    Which is not to say that China, Russia, even the BRICS organization itself cannot take over the 'mantle' and become the new imperialists if the West were defeated. They can. But you can't possibly judge a country or a system based on something it hasn't done and that it claims it has no interest in doing. The whole point of BRICS is not to become a new hegemon to replace the old hegemon, but to create a new equal system of relations between states, new financial and industrial models that are a lot more fair to developing nations, and a bunch of other things.

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Mon Dec 02, 2024 6:40 am

    I think you guys are confusing stuff... and first of all:

    China and the United States head rival imperialist blocs;

    BRICS is the opposite of an empire... China does not lead BRICS, nor does Russia or China... or India or Brazil or South Africa. In many ways it is a collective of individual states working together for the greater good of each country and not just for the benefit of themselves... though everyone working together is intended to be for the benefit of all countries within the group, though not specifically at the cost of countries outside the group.

    This is not a gang. In many ways it is a collective, but without internal requirements that each member conform.

    Countries can join without having to learn a new language or change religion, or their political direction... Russia and Brazil and India and South Africa are democracies and China is communist... they don't have to change if they don't want to... there is no pressure to conform.

    They will likely create a currency for trade or currencies of each country can be used.

    The point is to help each member grow and develop with trade and cooperation... it is not about imposing ideas... China has said its economy has grown and other countries are free to look at what happened and why and how the growth took place but even they admit that for most other countries copying exactly what they did likely would not work because of the different times and situations and other factors... but it is still worth looking at problems and solutions to work out how other countries can solve their problems and develop.

    In comparison the US empire is you are all vassals or enemies and you will all be engaged to enrich the 1% rich and the 0.1% super rich in the US and your lives mean nothing at all.

    The fact that Russia and China used to be empires can't be disputed, but it is the US and her vassals that tries to continue the empire shtich... with itself at the head and in charge....

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    sepheronx
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    Post  sepheronx Mon Dec 09, 2024 11:30 pm

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    Post  GarryB Tue Dec 10, 2024 9:13 am

    This is fantastic... the west is setting itself an impossible goal of defeating Russia... this means an agreement is not possible and Russia will continue till Kievs forces collapse.

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    Post  PhSt Thu Dec 26, 2024 7:58 pm

    As NAziTO desperation in Ukraine continues, NAziTO Propaganda keeps getting dumber and dumber.  Laughing

    These BUFFOONS are really convinced that they can somehow trick both Russia and China into attacking each other  Rolling Eyes

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    kvs
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    Post  kvs Thu Dec 26, 2024 8:57 pm

    A central element of the corruption of absolute power (the reality of the "free" west) is the rot of the brains of the deciders. The king has no clothes
    is not a joke story. It the process of arrogance substituting for thought. Thinking requires a level of humble acceptance of one's limitations and
    effort to learn. Do you think NATzO deciders are being "students". No, they fervently believe that they have the power to create reality through
    the force of their will. These are mentally inadequate people but they have the position of power that propels them and us to oblivion.

    The social media detritus "analysis" is lemmings following their leaders.



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    sepheronx
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    Post  sepheronx Thu Dec 26, 2024 11:34 pm

    Well, one thing for certain is, China is a paper tiger.

    They have a large army, but they have no experience. Most of their systems are just copies of Russian stuff that they try to pretty up.

    Other than that, it doesn't matter. Russia and China has bordered each other since forever and China has different policies than what people believe. China isn't advancing north because Chinese dont want to live north, they are advancing south and west.
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    Post  Arrow Thu Dec 26, 2024 11:39 pm

    Well, one thing for certain is, China is a paper tiger. They have a large army, but they have no experience. Most of their systems are just copies of Russian stuff that they try to pretty up. wrote:


    They are not a paper tiger. They do not have the experience of most armies in the world. China invests mainly in the fleet. Their surface ships are their projects. The scale of their fleet expansion is huge. In addition, they are developing strategic nuclear forces, aviation, SAM systems. They already have over 300 J-20s.

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    sepheronx
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    Post  sepheronx Thu Dec 26, 2024 11:51 pm

    Oh wow, 300 of a set of jets that:

    -Are a modification of MiG-1.42 and NEVER used in any combat.
    -Engine development far behind
    -No knowledge on avionics

    These are very important factors.

    I imagine you guys would be jumping up and down if they came out with a jet that is essentially a MiG-21 that is stealth looking.....
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    Post  GarryB Fri Dec 27, 2024 3:49 am

    Well, one thing for certain is, China is a paper tiger.

    Say the same about Taiwan, they have not fought a real war for some time.

    You could actually say the same about HATO... their last few conflicts have either been massively one sided or they left with their tail between their legs with their enemy stronger than when they arrived and they can't blame Russia or China for building up their enemies either.

    They have a large army, but they have no experience. Most of their systems are just copies of Russian stuff that they try to pretty up.

    Which makes them better off than HATO countries whose systems are American and don't really work very well.

    Their tanks and armour are no safer or better armed or armoured than Russian vehicles, while their ammo is exposed in turret bustles and they are too heavy and require too much maintenance to keep running in a real conflict.

    No two HATO tanks share much of anything in common meaning they each require their own logistics tail and support needs.

    Aircraft are not better.

    China isn't advancing north because Chinese dont want to live north, they are advancing south and west.

    China hasn't invaded anyone. China has built some islands for itself... which in comparison to US and UK and other European colonial powers who stole islands and removed the natives from those islands so they could use them for strategic purposes, what China has done is vastly more ethical.

    -Are a modification of MiG-1.42 and NEVER used in any combat.
    -Engine development far behind
    -No knowledge on avionics

    The MiG-1,42 was not made up on the spot... it uses experience of air combat for quite some time, but the next war is always different.

    Would you say the F-35 is the best fighter in the world because of all of Americas combat experience... that has been very few years these last 200-300 years when the US was not involved in one war or another... directly or indirectly.

    I would say F-35 is evidence of how corruption works and how the US MIC has played the US government based on how weapons systems are funded to create a mega project that can't be cancelled or defunded...

    I imagine you guys would be jumping up and down if they came out with a jet that is essentially a MiG-21 that is stealth looking.....

    Ironic, because that is what the Su-75 is supposed to be...

    Especially in comparison to Taiwan...

    When the US and HATO came up against a peer enemy in the Ukraine their technology and training failed them and their team is losing badly and there is nothing they can do to stop it.
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    Post  higurashihougi Sat Dec 28, 2024 8:18 pm

    https://www.rt.com/russia/610144-telegram-eu-media-block/

    Telegram blocking Russian media in EU

    Telegram channels of multiple major Russian outlets are now inaccessible across the bloc over alleged “violation of local laws”

    According to media reports, the affected channels include such Russian majors as RIA Novosti, Izvestia, Rossiya 1, Channel One, NTV and Rossiyskaya Gazeta. While it was not immediately clear whether the bans are EU-wide, the restrictions have been reportedly rolled out in Poland, Belgium, France, the Netherlands, Greece, Italy and the Czech Republic.
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    Post  sepheronx Sat Dec 28, 2024 8:59 pm

    Hence why alternative to telegram is created, and Pavel and his assets confiscated in Russia. Ban telegram in Russia.

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    Post  sepheronx Sat Jan 04, 2025 12:24 am

    Funny thing I noticed. If you check out r/ Kazakhstan on reddit, it's Kazakhstan flag in Ukrainian colors.

    Just wanted to mention it. Kazakhstan will be next hot zone for Russia after Ukraine.
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    Post  PhSt Thu Jan 09, 2025 10:43 am

    Hence why alternative to telegram is created, and Pavel and his assets confiscated in Russia. Ban telegram in Russia.

    Is created or needs to be created? Whats the existing Russian alternative to Telegram? VK?


    This just in, it looks like Durov has been pressured to release TG data to the US Rolling Eyes



    After Pavel Durov's arrest, Telegram handed over data on thousands of users to U.S. authorities, according to a report from 404 Media, referencing the company's Transparency Report.

    In 2024, Telegram transferred data on 2,253 users in response to 900 official U.S. requests. The bulk of these requests came after Durov's arrest in France in August. Between January 1 and September 30, the messenger complied with just 14 requests, but the number of data disclosures sharply increased in the months following Durov's detainment at Paris airport on August 24.

    Meanwhile, Telegram has ceased fulfilling requests from Russian authorities. The Moscow Times reports that since September 30, Telegram has not provided any user data to Russian officials. In the first nine months of 2024, the platform declined all Russian requests.

    Previously, Telegram shared user data only in cases involving terrorism concerns. However, after Durov's arrest, it appears he was pressured to provide data in cases related to cybercrime, the sale of illegal goods, and online fraud.

    It’s important to note that Telegram's refusal to cooperate with French authorities was a key point of contention during Durov's legal troubles in France.

    https://www.404media.co/telegram-hands-u-s-authorities-data-on-thousands-of-users/


    IMO Russia needs to be more aggressive in the information sphere, promote its alternate media space to outsiders from Russia and make real efforts to compete with NATO propaganda outfits like YouTube, Facebook, X, etc.

    As I have speculated before, it looks like the agency in Russia that is tasked to handle this project is compromised by NATO assets, which is why efforts to promote the Russian information space to people outside of Russia are not reaching their maximum potential and even existing projects get to a point of stagnation (Like the online Russian encyclopedia project to rival Wikipedia).

    These problems need to be addressed ASAP.
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    Post  PhSt Thu Jan 09, 2025 10:55 am

    Just wanted to mention it. Kazakhstan will be next hot zone for Russia after Ukraine.

    Agreed, Russia gave away a lot of its rightful Central Asia possessions. Its only proper that Russia take it back, especially if these territories will be used to harm Russia's interests.

    But before liberating Kazakhstan, perhaps it would be a good move to secure the south Caucasus first, to CUT the line between NATO Turkey and Central Asia where the Turks are dreaming of expanding their influence

    Western propaganda #2 - Page 31 12125410

    The south Caucasus is an important choke point for Trade between Europe and Asia, secure this corridor and the only alternate land route will be through Iran, which particularly doesn't have good relations with NATO.
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    Post  PhSt Mon Jan 20, 2025 3:18 am

    So NATO propaganda outfits are resorting to hiring sluts to spew lies about how Russians don't have toilets and that Western vloggers in Russia are all paid by the Russian government to make positive commentaries about Russia  Rolling Eyes

    Russia needs to do the same, hire some prostitutes in NATO countries to talk shit about their countries. If their channels are shut down and the content creators are arrested, then Russia will have a justification to shut down and get rid of this NATO propagandist slut.

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    Post  kvs Mon Jan 20, 2025 5:04 am

    The toilet fetish in NATzO and Ukria is something else. I remember a CBC "report" on rural Russia from around the mid 1990s which had the
    cameraman shove the lens into an outhouse hole. Seriously. As if Kanada does not have any outhouses and everyone is rich. This is
    from the country that had and still has 3rd world conditions on aboriginal reservations.

    Anyone spouting off about how rural Russia has no toilets and paved roads is a retard or a paid shill. I have posted videos before from a Ukrainian
    who does walking tours around Russia showing new pavement and infrastructure in remote locations.

    It is Ukria that does not have toilets and paved roads. As with their losses on the front, they project their own mess onto Russia.

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    Post  sepheronx Mon Jan 20, 2025 6:09 am

    I dont know why anyone cares.

    I used to use outhouse all the time in country side in Manitoba.

    Shit still exists to this day. I drove all over northern Alberta and drove into towns that has a 2 lane highway at best and riddled with potholes.

    Most of these Rural areas without proper plumbing are usually dachas and outside of major cities. Of course it isn't everyone but in reality, most people have plumbing for crying out loud.

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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Mon Jan 20, 2025 7:57 am

    A few years ago I was living in an industrial town /city in the middle of England. In the house (typical terraced house) was a very large bathroom, simply because in the original construction there was only an outside toilet in the backyard and in the not so distant past it had to be renovated with "converting" one of the bedrooms in a proper bathroom.

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