Russia Defence Forum

Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


+39
mnrck
x_54_u43
franco
jhelb
AZ-5
Karl Haushofer
PhSt
magnumcromagnon
lyle6
ATLASCUB
Hole
Sujoy
mnztr
JohninMK
Godric
Scorpius
Firebird
Arrow
Airbornewolf
nomadski
LMFS
GarryB
Backman
bitcointrader70
Krepost
calripson
Big_Gazza
Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E
Arkanghelsk
par far
Urluber
flamming_python
VARGR198
ALAMO
kvs
miketheterrible
lancelot
PapaDragon
George1
43 posters

    2022 Kazakhstan violent unrest

    magnumcromagnon
    magnumcromagnon


    Posts : 8158
    Points : 8303
    Join date : 2013-12-05
    Location : Pindos ave., Pindosville, Pindosylvania, Pindostan

    2022 Kazakhstan violent unrest - Page 14 Empty Re: 2022 Kazakhstan violent unrest

    Post  magnumcromagnon Sat Jan 08, 2022 2:02 pm

    From Pepe Escobar:

    First big dodgy fish netted in Kazakhstan:

    former head of the Committee on National Security, Karim Masimov.

    Charged with STATE TREASON.

    A lot more Trojan Horses to follow.

    https://twitter.com/RealPepeEscobar/status/1479798830128324609

    par far, LMFS and Hole like this post

    flamming_python
    flamming_python


    Posts : 7800
    Points : 7876
    Join date : 2012-01-30

    2022 Kazakhstan violent unrest - Page 14 Empty Re: 2022 Kazakhstan violent unrest

    Post  flamming_python Sat Jan 08, 2022 2:05 pm

    JohninMK wrote:
    AZ-5 wrote:cleaning house already..

    Kazakhstan detains former national security chief on suspicion of treason

    ALMATY, Jan 8 (Reuters) - Authorities in Kazakhstan have detained Karim Massimov, the former head of the national security committee, on suspicion of treason, the security committee said on Saturday. Massimov, who was fired this week as protests raged across the Central Asian country, was detained along with several other officials, the National Security Committee said in a statement. It did not name them or provide further details. Reuters was unable immediately to contact Massimov.

    reuters.com

    It is a really, really bad idea to initiate a coup and then fail.

    My instinct is that the Turks and MI6 (their new boss is an expert in the area, was an Ambassador there, and is close to the Turks) are the sharp end of this attempted colour revolution. Time will tell.

    Don't think the Turks are involved

    Putin and Erdogan held a conversation by phone about the post-Soviet space just a week or so ago. Not long after both Tokayev and Nazarbayev held talks with Putin at the CIS summit meeting in St. Petersburg.

    Just a couple of days ago Lavrov and the current Turkish foreign minister, Cavusoglu, held talks about the conversation in Kazakhstan where they both agreed that the government is making the right decisions in putting down the rebellion, and of course Tokayev thanked Turkey as well in his speech right after Russia and China

    Davutoglu, Turkey's former foreign minister and now in opposition to Erdogan, had earlier voiced how Erdogan had not payed enough attention to Kazakhstan

    So it's quite possible that Russia and Turkey had earlier agreed about delimitation of influence over the post-Soviet space, which would entail Turkey stopping support of all groups in Central Asia.
    In return Turkey's influence in the Transcaucasus can be accepted, and Russia and China might help Turkey with its economy and Eurasian integration.

    It's important to note that there are many different political forces in Turkey, some allied to Erdogan and some opposed to him. Many of those may have acted independently in initiating the uprising in Kazakhstan.

    AZ-5 likes this post

    AZ-5
    AZ-5


    Posts : 71
    Points : 73
    Join date : 2022-01-07
    Location : Athens, Greece

    2022 Kazakhstan violent unrest - Page 14 Empty Re: 2022 Kazakhstan violent unrest

    Post  AZ-5 Sat Jan 08, 2022 2:08 pm

    flamming_python wrote:Don't think the Turks are involved

    Putin and Erdogan held a conversation by phone about the post-Soviet space just a week or so ago. Not long after both Tokayev and Nazarbayev held talks with Putin at the CIS summit meeting in St. Petersburg.

    Just a couple of days ago Lavrov and the current Turkish foreign minister, Cavusoglu, held talks about the conversation in Kazakhstan where they both agreed that the government is making the right decisions in putting down the rebellion, and of course Tokayev thanked Turkey as well in his speech right after Russia and China

    Davutoglu, Turkey's former foreign minister and now in opposition to Erdogan, had earlier voiced how Erdogan had not payed enough attention to Kazakhstan

    So it's quite possible that Russia and Turkey had earlier agreed about delimitation of influence over the post-Soviet space, which would entail Turkey stopping support of all groups in Central Asia.
    In return Turkey's influence in the Transcaucasus can be accepted, and Russia and China might help Turkey with its economy and Eurasian integration.

    It's important to note that there are many different political forces in Turkey, some allied to Erdogan and some opposed to him. Many of those may have acted independently in initiating the uprising in Kazakhstan.

    Turkey is not a unitary deep state per se.
    Some oligarch/clans in there are stirring **** all over the region, irrespectively of Erdogan's phone calls at facetime Twisted Evil

    Turkey loves to play that game ''promise, it wasn't us but some rogue elements. We promise''.
    When in fact all parties in TR are actively working to advance their pseudo-nation agenda in central Asia.. since the 90s non-stop.

    kvs and Hole like this post

    Sujoy
    Sujoy


    Posts : 2038
    Points : 2200
    Join date : 2012-04-02
    Location : India || भारत

    2022 Kazakhstan violent unrest - Page 14 Empty Re: 2022 Kazakhstan violent unrest

    Post  Sujoy Sat Jan 08, 2022 2:22 pm

    A large part of modern day Kazakhstan was a part of mineral rich Siberian Russia that was handed over to Kazakhstan by Stalin.

    This has ensured that Kazakhstan even today is relatively rich compared to a whole lot of former Soviet republics.

    AZ-5 likes this post

    avatar
    ALAMO


    Posts : 3495
    Points : 3497
    Join date : 2014-11-25

    2022 Kazakhstan violent unrest - Page 14 Empty Re: 2022 Kazakhstan violent unrest

    Post  ALAMO Sat Jan 08, 2022 2:27 pm

    flamming_python wrote:

    Don't think the Turks are involved

    +1

    Tokayev included Turkey in his thanksgiving list, along with the CSTO allies.
    We know about some conversation between the Erdo and Japarov, and the decision that they will settle a contingent was made after that I guess.

    miketheterrible and Arkanghelsk like this post

    JohninMK
    JohninMK


    Posts : 11783
    Points : 11910
    Join date : 2015-06-16
    Location : England

    2022 Kazakhstan violent unrest - Page 14 Empty Re: 2022 Kazakhstan violent unrest

    Post  JohninMK Sat Jan 08, 2022 2:36 pm

    More of John's random comments from social media

    Peter Leonard
    @Peter__Leonard
    ·
    1h
    Kazakhstan: Expecting in the coming days to hear a lot more about this character, Wild Arman (Arman Dzhumageldiyev), who appears to have been a leading ringleader in the violence in Almaty. He has been under arrest since Friday 1/


    Luca Anceschi
    @anceschistan
    · 3h
    #Kazakhstan. With arrest of Massimov, what we have witnessed may well be a failed coup, clumsily concealed behind large-scale protests that may or may not have not led to change beyond subsidisation of gas prices. A public, violent manifestation of elite instability.

    The RAGE X
    @theragex
    · 3h
    Flag of United StatesFlag of Kazakhstan⚡ The United States has approved the voluntary evacuation of employees of the Consulate General in the Kazakh city of Almaty engulfed in the civil unrest, the Department of State says.

    Leonid Ragozin
    @leonidragozin
    · 3h
    Dark scenes in the centre of Almaty. Authoritarianism has received a major boost in Kazakhstan, I am afraid. There will be no appetite for revolution in a long time. All of this also affects the prospect of change in Russia pretty negatively, too.
    https://france24.com/en/live-news/2

    -- GEROMAN -- Eyes -
    @GeromanAT
    ·
    2h
    The planned color revolution was crushed within 6 days - of course our NATO friends are pretty sad - they tried to start a chaotic civil war to destablize Central Asia - and of course use the usual moral high ground shit as a pretext - now at least to whine and weep.

    Benjamin Norton
    @BenjaminNorton
    ·
    7 Jan
    Kazakhstan already has its version of Venezuelan coup puppet Juan Guaidó:

    His name is Mukhtar Ablyazov. He's a right-wing ex banker living in France, accused of fraud and murder

    He's being promoted by corporate media as "opposition leader," calling for Western (US) intervention

    flamming_python and AZ-5 like this post

    JohninMK
    JohninMK


    Posts : 11783
    Points : 11910
    Join date : 2015-06-16
    Location : England

    2022 Kazakhstan violent unrest - Page 14 Empty Re: 2022 Kazakhstan violent unrest

    Post  JohninMK Sat Jan 08, 2022 2:38 pm

    2022 Kazakhstan violent unrest - Page 14 FIicl5gXIAoNh_A?format=jpg&name=medium
    AZ-5
    AZ-5


    Posts : 71
    Points : 73
    Join date : 2022-01-07
    Location : Athens, Greece

    2022 Kazakhstan violent unrest - Page 14 Empty Re: 2022 Kazakhstan violent unrest

    Post  AZ-5 Sat Jan 08, 2022 2:45 pm

    JohninMK wrote:More of John's random comments from social media

    Peter Leonard
    @Peter__Leonard
    ·
    1h
    Kazakhstan: Expecting in the coming days to hear a lot more about this character, Wild Arman (Arman Dzhumageldiyev), who appears to have been a leading ringleader in the violence in Almaty. He has been under arrest since Friday 1/

    That guy flew in the country from straight from TR. There's photos of him on twitter posing with the grey wolves sign..  Suspect

    LMFS likes this post

    flamming_python
    flamming_python


    Posts : 7800
    Points : 7876
    Join date : 2012-01-30

    2022 Kazakhstan violent unrest - Page 14 Empty Re: 2022 Kazakhstan violent unrest

    Post  flamming_python Sat Jan 08, 2022 3:09 pm

    Sujoy wrote:A large part of modern day Kazakhstan was a part of mineral rich Siberian Russia that was handed over to Kazakhstan by Stalin.

    This has ensured that Kazakhstan even today is relatively rich compared to a whole lot of former Soviet republics.

    No, rather the Kazakh ASSR was detached from Russia by Stalin and made into a union-level republic, the Kazakh SSR.

    If you look at the territories traditionally claimed and occupied by the 3 Kazakh zuzhes (a zuzh being something between a nation and a clan), you'll see that they correlate fairly well to the modern borders of Kazakhstan

    2022 Kazakhstan violent unrest - Page 14 958f7df6d6d725f5e230949b5aeaba1e

    The green one is the 'junior zuzh', and is the most recent one to have expanded - half of that territory was traditionally controlled by the Nogay horde, but after the Nogays suffered defeats, famines, they started to migrate away in the 17th century.

    2022 Kazakhstan violent unrest - Page 14 1280px-Nogay_Horde.svg

    Anyway, from the 17th century onwards that area around the Caspian started to be settled by Kazakhs from the east (while Russians settled in the territories vacated by the Nogays that are now part of Russia - Orenburg, Saratov and so on).

    There is some territory in Kazakhstan that Russians settled before Kazakhs got there - Uralsk, Semipalatinsk for example - and these places are still the centres of major industries. But those territories are fairly small geographically.

    /historylesson

    These 'zuzh' divisions are still present in Kazakh society and power structures. The strongest protests and best organization has been in the territories of the green zuzh. That's also where there's the most unemployment and the poorest sections of the population - despite also being the centre for Kazakh oil/gas production. It's the most ethnically Kazakh part of Kazakhstan too.

    The red section is the elder zuzh, that's where most of the fighting and banditry has been. It's where the Soviet-era capital Almaty is located. Almaty being a bustling metropolitan, multiethnic Russian-speaking centre, while the rest of that territory mostly is full of poor village Kazakhs, Uzbeks and some other people like the Dungans.

    And the orange section is the middle zuzh, where the capital was moved to in the 90s, and which has been the quietest and most pro-government part of Kazakhstan during this week's events. A good part of it is pretty Russified, and it's heavily ethnically mixed.


    Last edited by flamming_python on Sat Jan 08, 2022 3:19 pm; edited 2 times in total

    franco, kvs, JohninMK and AZ-5 like this post

    franco
    franco


    Posts : 5588
    Points : 5618
    Join date : 2010-08-18

    2022 Kazakhstan violent unrest - Page 14 Empty Re: 2022 Kazakhstan violent unrest

    Post  franco Sat Jan 08, 2022 3:10 pm

    flamming_python wrote:
    JohninMK wrote:
    AZ-5 wrote:cleaning house already..

    Kazakhstan detains former national security chief on suspicion of treason

    ALMATY, Jan 8 (Reuters) - Authorities in Kazakhstan have detained Karim Massimov, the former head of the national security committee, on suspicion of treason, the security committee said on Saturday. Massimov, who was fired this week as protests raged across the Central Asian country, was detained along with several other officials, the National Security Committee said in a statement. It did not name them or provide further details. Reuters was unable immediately to contact Massimov.

    reuters.com

    It is a really, really bad idea to initiate a coup and then fail.

    My instinct is that the Turks and MI6 (their new boss is an expert in the area, was an Ambassador there, and is close to the Turks) are the sharp end of this attempted colour revolution. Time will tell.

    Don't think the Turks are involved

    Putin and Erdogan held a conversation by phone about the post-Soviet space just a week or so ago. Not long after both Tokayev and Nazarbayev held talks with Putin at the CIS summit meeting in St. Petersburg.

    Just a couple of days ago Lavrov and the current Turkish foreign minister, Cavusoglu, held talks about the conversation in Kazakhstan where they both agreed that the government is making the right decisions in putting down the rebellion, and of course Tokayev thanked Turkey as well in his speech right after Russia and China

    Davutoglu, Turkey's former foreign minister and now in opposition to Erdogan, had earlier voiced how Erdogan had not payed enough attention to Kazakhstan

    So it's quite possible that Russia and Turkey had earlier agreed about delimitation of influence over the post-Soviet space, which would entail Turkey stopping support of all groups in Central Asia.
    In return Turkey's influence in the Transcaucasus can be accepted, and Russia and China might help Turkey with its economy and Eurasian integration.

    It's important to note that there are many different political forces in Turkey, some allied to Erdogan and some opposed to him. Many of those may have acted independently in initiating the uprising in Kazakhstan.

    Erdogan apparently claimed that any Turkey involvement was from the Gulenist. The same group that tried to dispose him back in 2016.
    AZ-5
    AZ-5


    Posts : 71
    Points : 73
    Join date : 2022-01-07
    Location : Athens, Greece

    2022 Kazakhstan violent unrest - Page 14 Empty Re: 2022 Kazakhstan violent unrest

    Post  AZ-5 Sat Jan 08, 2022 3:16 pm

    franco wrote:Erdogan apparently claimed that any Turkey involvement was from the Gulenist. The same group that tried to dispose him back in 2016.  

    Classic Erdogan ''don't look at me''. lol1
    Reminds me of Georgia harboring all sorts of Chechen fruitcakes during the late 90s and early 00s.

    LMFS likes this post

    Sujoy
    Sujoy


    Posts : 2038
    Points : 2200
    Join date : 2012-04-02
    Location : India || भारत

    2022 Kazakhstan violent unrest - Page 14 Empty Re: 2022 Kazakhstan violent unrest

    Post  Sujoy Sat Jan 08, 2022 3:33 pm

    flamming_python wrote:No, rather the Kazakh ASSR was detached from Russia by Stalin and made into a union-level republic, the Kazakh SSR.

    If you look at the territories traditionally claimed and occupied by the 3 Kazakh zuzhes (a zuzh being something between a nation and a clan), you'll see that they correlate fairly well to the modern borders of Kazakhstan
    Thanks! So is there a possibility now that these 3 Kazakh zuzhes will become 3 separate countries?

    Or is it in Russia's interest to keep Kazakshtan intact as one country, given that China is now trying to get involved?
    avatar
    par far


    Posts : 3340
    Points : 3585
    Join date : 2014-06-26

    2022 Kazakhstan violent unrest - Page 14 Empty Re: 2022 Kazakhstan violent unrest

    Post  par far Sat Jan 08, 2022 3:49 pm

    AZ-5 wrote:
    JohninMK wrote:More of John's random comments from social media

    Peter Leonard
    @Peter__Leonard
    ·
    1h
    Kazakhstan: Expecting in the coming days to hear a lot more about this character, Wild Arman (Arman Dzhumageldiyev), who appears to have been a leading ringleader in the violence in Almaty. He has been under arrest since Friday 1/

    That guy flew in the country from straight from TR. There's photos of him on twitter posing with the grey wolves sign..  Suspect

    Is it this fucker?

    https://twitter.com/AnnonMedi/status/1479450112363479046

    https://centralasia.liveuamap.com/en/2022/7-january-kazakh-police-detained-arman-dzhumageldiev-nicknamed

    Hopefully they hang him upside down.

    AZ-5 likes this post

    PapaDragon
    PapaDragon


    Posts : 12659
    Points : 12717
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    2022 Kazakhstan violent unrest - Page 14 Empty Re: 2022 Kazakhstan violent unrest

    Post  PapaDragon Sat Jan 08, 2022 3:49 pm

    ALAMO wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:Don't think the Turks are involved
    +1
    Tokayev included Turkey in his thanksgiving list, along with the CSTO allies.
    We know about some conversation between the Erdo and Japarov, and the decision that they will settle a contingent was made after that I guess.

    Like I said before this was European little project with MI6 taking charge and East Europeans helping stir the pot

    Remember, those USA\Russia negotiations are still coming up and funny stuff are likely to happen there, stuff that Europeans (especially Eastern ones) may not like too much



    ALAMO likes this post

    flamming_python
    flamming_python


    Posts : 7800
    Points : 7876
    Join date : 2012-01-30

    2022 Kazakhstan violent unrest - Page 14 Empty Re: 2022 Kazakhstan violent unrest

    Post  flamming_python Sat Jan 08, 2022 3:54 pm

    Sujoy wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:No, rather the Kazakh ASSR was detached from Russia by Stalin and made into a union-level republic, the Kazakh SSR.

    If you look at the territories traditionally claimed and occupied by the 3 Kazakh zuzhes (a zuzh being something between a nation and a clan), you'll see that they correlate fairly well to the modern borders of Kazakhstan
    Thanks! So is there a possibility now that these 3 Kazakh zuzhes will become 3 separate countries?

    Or is it in Russia's interest to keep Kazakshtan intact as one country, given that China is now trying to get involved?

    There was actually a debate when the Russians encountered the Kazakhs and started to research their society - about whether the 3 hordes/zhuzes of the Kazakhs are actually one people or not. Because these hordes operated independently, included their own separate families and clans from different lineages (the middle zhuz I think being descended from the Mongols to a large part), and fought/raided each other as often as anyone else.
    However ultimately it was decided that they were one people - they after-all spoke the same language and had the same customs. They also did sometimes unite together under a khan and so on.

    In the Soviet period a lot of effort was put into eliminating the zhuz divisions as they were seen as a vestige of feudalism. They didn't completely succeed, as you can see them evidenced if not in day to day life, then still exactly things like protests, business interests, capital cities being moved here and there, and many other sociological, political and economic patterns.
    However to speak of 3 separate peoples or countries today makes even less sense than it did in the 18th century. It's still one people, even if a somewhat divided one, and the divisions only play out on the macro scale and at most in business, not in ordinary interaction. I don't think any such sentiment about splitting the country is popular there.

    Yes it's absolutely in Russia's interests to keep Kazakhstan together and not play destructive politics in the region in any way, shape or form. A united Kazakhstan as a modern republic was a Russian/Soviet idea in the first place. The main thing is that the project doesn't go awry - as it nearly just did.


    Last edited by flamming_python on Sat Jan 08, 2022 4:02 pm; edited 1 time in total

    ALAMO, JohninMK and AZ-5 like this post

    PapaDragon
    PapaDragon


    Posts : 12659
    Points : 12717
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    2022 Kazakhstan violent unrest - Page 14 Empty Re: 2022 Kazakhstan violent unrest

    Post  PapaDragon Sat Jan 08, 2022 4:01 pm


    Imperial Guard detachments deployed in order to support local PDF units on planet Kazakhstan Cool





    flamming_python, Airbornewolf, par far, Big_Gazza, Godric, DerWolf and lyle6 like this post

    AZ-5
    AZ-5


    Posts : 71
    Points : 73
    Join date : 2022-01-07
    Location : Athens, Greece

    2022 Kazakhstan violent unrest - Page 14 Empty Re: 2022 Kazakhstan violent unrest

    Post  AZ-5 Sat Jan 08, 2022 4:08 pm

    flamming_python wrote:Yes it's absolutely in Russia's interests to keep Kazakhstan together and not play destructive politics in the region in any way, shape or form. A united Kazakhstan as a modern republic was a Russian/Soviet idea in the first place. The main thing is that the project doesn't go awry - as it nearly just did.

    ^^ this. I'm 100% behind this comment.

    The moment Russia plays this game in Asia (fragmenting the post-Soviet republics), the more they will be exposed in areas they can't afford to take risks (Far East, meaning China and poss. Japan). Russia is full aware of their strengths and limits in this space. My idea after this csto op, is that all these guys+PRC will gang up and consider an op across the border (Afghan). If they are not pro-active there, it will mathematically come back to bite them, real hard.
    flamming_python
    flamming_python


    Posts : 7800
    Points : 7876
    Join date : 2012-01-30

    2022 Kazakhstan violent unrest - Page 14 Empty Re: 2022 Kazakhstan violent unrest

    Post  flamming_python Sat Jan 08, 2022 4:23 pm

    AZ-5 wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:Yes it's absolutely in Russia's interests to keep Kazakhstan together and not play destructive politics in the region in any way, shape or form. A united Kazakhstan as a modern republic was a Russian/Soviet idea in the first place. The main thing is that the project doesn't go awry - as it nearly just did.

    ^^ this. I'm 100% behind this comment.

    The moment Russia plays this game in Asia (fragmenting the post-Soviet republics), the more they will be exposed in areas they can't afford to take risks (Far East, meaning China and poss. Japan). Russia is full aware of their strengths and limits in this space. My idea after this csto op, is that all these guys+PRC will gang up and consider an op across the border (Afghan). If they are not pro-active there, it will mathematically come back to bite them, real hard.

    If we were to imagine Kazakhstan split into 3 countries along zhuz lines - then Western encroachment into Central Asia would become inevitable, along with many other nasty surprises.

    Because while one zhuz will take the patronage of Russia, another will take the patronage of the West, a third maybe become infiltrated by Islamists or whatever.

    A united Kazakhstan, even if it was politically neutral, keeps all the regressive forces in check, and allows for modernization and improving the social-economic conditions across the whole territory. Which is very much to Russia's benefit, it doesn't need instability or any pro-Turkish, pro-Western or whatever state on its southern border.
    But the main thing is that the government must be competent.

    Godric and AZ-5 like this post

    AZ-5
    AZ-5


    Posts : 71
    Points : 73
    Join date : 2022-01-07
    Location : Athens, Greece

    2022 Kazakhstan violent unrest - Page 14 Empty Re: 2022 Kazakhstan violent unrest

    Post  AZ-5 Sat Jan 08, 2022 4:38 pm

    flamming_python wrote:A united Kazakhstan, even if it was politically neutral, keeps all the regressive forces in check, and allows for modernization and improving the social-economic conditions across the whole territory. Which is very much to Russia's benefit, it doesn't need instability or any pro-Turkish, pro-Western or whatever state on its southern border.
    But the main thing is that the government must be competent.

    Despite my deep contempt to anything communist (sorry pro-soviets) I can't not see their wisdom in stabilising Afghan space. You are right that a unified Kazakhstan is key, but it means very little if you have the extremist danger right next door, brewing and exporting its goods non-stop. As it does now. Soviets had the wisdom to go in hard and probably this bought them time during the 80s in their own 'stans. Remember the first protest in USSR was in Almaty back in 1986 'Jeltoqsan' or later in 1990 riots in Osh and Dushanbe. It's the same today, the safety of central Asia space depends on who's in-charge in Kabul.

    Anyhow, won't divert no more. But I have the weird feeling that Almaty this year is related to what happened in Kabul last year.
    PapaDragon
    PapaDragon


    Posts : 12659
    Points : 12717
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    2022 Kazakhstan violent unrest - Page 14 Empty Re: 2022 Kazakhstan violent unrest

    Post  PapaDragon Sat Jan 08, 2022 5:01 pm

    AZ-5 wrote:...
    International Leaks
    @Internl_Leaks 3h
    According to the unconfirmed reports, The port of Aktau was taken under protection by the forces of the 414th separate guards battalion of the marines of the Caspian flotilla of the Russian Navy
    ...

    Caspian Fleet rides again, first they kicked down the door in Syria and now this thumbsup



    magnumcromagnon wrote:From Pepe Escobar:
    First big dodgy fish netted in Kazakhstan:
    former head of the Committee on National Security, Karim Masimov.
    Charged with STATE TREASON.
    A lot more Trojan Horses to follow.

    https://twitter.com/RealPepeEscobar/status/1479798830128324609

    Out-fucking-standing, hopefully plenty more to come

    Airbornewolf, par far, Big_Gazza, Godric and TMA1 like this post

    kvs
    kvs


    Posts : 13617
    Points : 13762
    Join date : 2014-09-11
    Location : Turdope's Kanada

    2022 Kazakhstan violent unrest - Page 14 Empty Re: 2022 Kazakhstan violent unrest

    Post  kvs Sat Jan 08, 2022 5:21 pm

    The post by flamming is highly relevant since it debunks the Kazakh nationalist claims on the country's current borders and beyond.
    The Russians have the same historical timeline as the Kazakhs on this land. Ethnically cleansing them is a war crime. Russia
    must support both the Donbass and northern Kazakhstan Russian populations. This does not mean any Sudentland style invasions
    but it also does not allow for ethnic cleansing.

    par far, Big_Gazza, Godric and JohninMK like this post

    kvs
    kvs


    Posts : 13617
    Points : 13762
    Join date : 2014-09-11
    Location : Turdope's Kanada

    2022 Kazakhstan violent unrest - Page 14 Empty Re: 2022 Kazakhstan violent unrest

    Post  kvs Sat Jan 08, 2022 5:23 pm

    AZ-5 wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:A united Kazakhstan, even if it was politically neutral, keeps all the regressive forces in check, and allows for modernization and improving the social-economic conditions across the whole territory. Which is very much to Russia's benefit, it doesn't need instability or any pro-Turkish, pro-Western or whatever state on its southern border.
    But the main thing is that the government must be competent.

    Despite my deep contempt to anything communist (sorry pro-soviets) I can't not see their wisdom in stabilising Afghan space. You are right that a unified Kazakhstan is key, but it means very little if you have the extremist danger right next door, brewing and exporting its goods non-stop. As it does now. Soviets had the wisdom to go in hard and probably this bought them time during the 80s in their own 'stans. Remember the first protest in USSR was in Almaty back in 1986 'Jeltoqsan' or later in 1990 riots in Osh and Dushanbe. It's the same today, the safety of central Asia space depends on who's in-charge in Kabul.

    Anyhow, won't divert no more. But I have the weird feeling that Almaty this year is related to what happened in Kabul last year.

    It is more than a feeling.

    The Kazakh jihadis operating in Afghanistan came back home. Wherever there is a conflict in the Muslim world, jihadis flock from all over
    to participate. This is convenient for the meddlers since they get to recruit irregulars using assets like Saudi Arabia and Wahabbism.

    Big_Gazza, Godric, miketheterrible, LMFS and AZ-5 like this post

    AZ-5
    AZ-5


    Posts : 71
    Points : 73
    Join date : 2022-01-07
    Location : Athens, Greece

    2022 Kazakhstan violent unrest - Page 14 Empty Re: 2022 Kazakhstan violent unrest

    Post  AZ-5 Sat Jan 08, 2022 5:24 pm

    kvs wrote:The post by flamming is highly relevant since it debunks the Kazakh nationalist claims on the country's current borders and beyond.
    The Russians have the same historical timeline as the Kazakhs on this land.  Ethnically cleansing them is a war crime.   Russia
    must support both the Donbass and northern Kazakhstan Russian populations.   This does not mean any Sudentland style invasions
    but it also does not allow for ethnic cleansing.

    This requires lobbying, is Russia ready to lobby for this w the local clans? dunno

    Godric likes this post

    AZ-5
    AZ-5


    Posts : 71
    Points : 73
    Join date : 2022-01-07
    Location : Athens, Greece

    2022 Kazakhstan violent unrest - Page 14 Empty Re: 2022 Kazakhstan violent unrest

    Post  AZ-5 Sat Jan 08, 2022 5:57 pm

    Lots of Candids deployed, massive op.

    Vagabönd из Метавселенной Sparkles
    @Wild_Vagabond_

    2022 Kazakhstan violent unrest - Page 14 Untitl10

    Активатор ватного оргазма.
    Российские пенсии, новые дороги, больницы, школы и средства на развитие науки, производства и сельского  хозяйства прибывают на поддержку братского (Моли) режима в Казахстан.
    #Казахстан #KZ #Kazakhstan #KazakhstanProtests #Алматы #Almaty

    twitter.com/Wild_Vagabond_/status/1479852269713690624
    flamming_python
    flamming_python


    Posts : 7800
    Points : 7876
    Join date : 2012-01-30

    2022 Kazakhstan violent unrest - Page 14 Empty Re: 2022 Kazakhstan violent unrest

    Post  flamming_python Sat Jan 08, 2022 6:03 pm

    AZ-5 wrote:Lots of Candids deployed, massive op.

    Vagabönd из Метавселенной Sparkles
    @Wild_Vagabond_

    2022 Kazakhstan violent unrest - Page 14 Untitl10

    Активатор ватного оргазма.
    Российские пенсии, новые дороги, больницы, школы и средства на развитие науки, производства и сельского  хозяйства прибывают на поддержку братского (Моли) режима в Казахстан.
    #Казахстан #KZ #Kazakhstan #KazakhstanProtests #Алматы #Almaty

    twitter.com/Wild_Vagabond_/status/1479852269713690624

    Some people just can't handle the latest developments. Sucks to be them

    LMFS likes this post


    Sponsored content


    2022 Kazakhstan violent unrest - Page 14 Empty Re: 2022 Kazakhstan violent unrest

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Sat Dec 10, 2022 3:17 am