First big dodgy fish netted in Kazakhstan:
former head of the Committee on National Security, Karim Masimov.
Charged with STATE TREASON.
A lot more Trojan Horses to follow.
https://twitter.com/RealPepeEscobar/status/1479798830128324609
2022 Kazakhstan violent unrest
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Re: 2022 Kazakhstan violent unrest
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Re: 2022 Kazakhstan violent unrest
JohninMK wrote:AZ-5 wrote:cleaning house already..
Kazakhstan detains former national security chief on suspicion of treason
ALMATY, Jan 8 (Reuters) - Authorities in Kazakhstan have detained Karim Massimov, the former head of the national security committee, on suspicion of treason, the security committee said on Saturday. Massimov, who was fired this week as protests raged across the Central Asian country, was detained along with several other officials, the National Security Committee said in a statement. It did not name them or provide further details. Reuters was unable immediately to contact Massimov.
reuters.com
It is a really, really bad idea to initiate a coup and then fail.
My instinct is that the Turks and MI6 (their new boss is an expert in the area, was an Ambassador there, and is close to the Turks) are the sharp end of this attempted colour revolution. Time will tell.
Don't think the Turks are involved
Putin and Erdogan held a conversation by phone about the post-Soviet space just a week or so ago. Not long after both Tokayev and Nazarbayev held talks with Putin at the CIS summit meeting in St. Petersburg.
Just a couple of days ago Lavrov and the current Turkish foreign minister, Cavusoglu, held talks about the conversation in Kazakhstan where they both agreed that the government is making the right decisions in putting down the rebellion, and of course Tokayev thanked Turkey as well in his speech right after Russia and China
Davutoglu, Turkey's former foreign minister and now in opposition to Erdogan, had earlier voiced how Erdogan had not payed enough attention to Kazakhstan
So it's quite possible that Russia and Turkey had earlier agreed about delimitation of influence over the post-Soviet space, which would entail Turkey stopping support of all groups in Central Asia.
In return Turkey's influence in the Transcaucasus can be accepted, and Russia and China might help Turkey with its economy and Eurasian integration.
It's important to note that there are many different political forces in Turkey, some allied to Erdogan and some opposed to him. Many of those may have acted independently in initiating the uprising in Kazakhstan.
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- Post n°328
Re: 2022 Kazakhstan violent unrest
flamming_python wrote:Don't think the Turks are involved
Putin and Erdogan held a conversation by phone about the post-Soviet space just a week or so ago. Not long after both Tokayev and Nazarbayev held talks with Putin at the CIS summit meeting in St. Petersburg.
Just a couple of days ago Lavrov and the current Turkish foreign minister, Cavusoglu, held talks about the conversation in Kazakhstan where they both agreed that the government is making the right decisions in putting down the rebellion, and of course Tokayev thanked Turkey as well in his speech right after Russia and China
Davutoglu, Turkey's former foreign minister and now in opposition to Erdogan, had earlier voiced how Erdogan had not payed enough attention to Kazakhstan
So it's quite possible that Russia and Turkey had earlier agreed about delimitation of influence over the post-Soviet space, which would entail Turkey stopping support of all groups in Central Asia.
In return Turkey's influence in the Transcaucasus can be accepted, and Russia and China might help Turkey with its economy and Eurasian integration.
It's important to note that there are many different political forces in Turkey, some allied to Erdogan and some opposed to him. Many of those may have acted independently in initiating the uprising in Kazakhstan.
Turkey is not a unitary deep state per se.
Some oligarch/clans in there are stirring **** all over the region, irrespectively of Erdogan's phone calls at facetime
Turkey loves to play that game ''promise, it wasn't us but some rogue elements. We promise''.
When in fact all parties in TR are actively working to advance their pseudo-nation agenda in central Asia.. since the 90s non-stop.
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Re: 2022 Kazakhstan violent unrest
This has ensured that Kazakhstan even today is relatively rich compared to a whole lot of former Soviet republics.
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Re: 2022 Kazakhstan violent unrest
flamming_python wrote:
Don't think the Turks are involved
+1
Tokayev included Turkey in his thanksgiving list, along with the CSTO allies.
We know about some conversation between the Erdo and Japarov, and the decision that they will settle a contingent was made after that I guess.
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- Post n°331
Re: 2022 Kazakhstan violent unrest
Peter Leonard
@Peter__Leonard
·
1h
Kazakhstan: Expecting in the coming days to hear a lot more about this character, Wild Arman (Arman Dzhumageldiyev), who appears to have been a leading ringleader in the violence in Almaty. He has been under arrest since Friday 1/
Luca Anceschi
@anceschistan
· 3h
#Kazakhstan. With arrest of Massimov, what we have witnessed may well be a failed coup, clumsily concealed behind large-scale protests that may or may not have not led to change beyond subsidisation of gas prices. A public, violent manifestation of elite instability.
The RAGE X
@theragex
· 3h
Flag of United StatesFlag of Kazakhstan The United States has approved the voluntary evacuation of employees of the Consulate General in the Kazakh city of Almaty engulfed in the civil unrest, the Department of State says.
Leonid Ragozin
@leonidragozin
· 3h
Dark scenes in the centre of Almaty. Authoritarianism has received a major boost in Kazakhstan, I am afraid. There will be no appetite for revolution in a long time. All of this also affects the prospect of change in Russia pretty negatively, too.
https://france24.com/en/live-news/2
-- GEROMAN -- Eyes -
@GeromanAT
·
2h
The planned color revolution was crushed within 6 days - of course our NATO friends are pretty sad - they tried to start a chaotic civil war to destablize Central Asia - and of course use the usual moral high ground shit as a pretext - now at least to whine and weep.
Benjamin Norton
@BenjaminNorton
·
7 Jan
Kazakhstan already has its version of Venezuelan coup puppet Juan Guaidó:
His name is Mukhtar Ablyazov. He's a right-wing ex banker living in France, accused of fraud and murder
He's being promoted by corporate media as "opposition leader," calling for Western (US) intervention
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Re: 2022 Kazakhstan violent unrest
JohninMK wrote:More of John's random comments from social media
Peter Leonard
@Peter__Leonard
·
1h
Kazakhstan: Expecting in the coming days to hear a lot more about this character, Wild Arman (Arman Dzhumageldiyev), who appears to have been a leading ringleader in the violence in Almaty. He has been under arrest since Friday 1/
That guy flew in the country from straight from TR. There's photos of him on twitter posing with the grey wolves sign..
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Re: 2022 Kazakhstan violent unrest
Sujoy wrote:A large part of modern day Kazakhstan was a part of mineral rich Siberian Russia that was handed over to Kazakhstan by Stalin.
This has ensured that Kazakhstan even today is relatively rich compared to a whole lot of former Soviet republics.
No, rather the Kazakh ASSR was detached from Russia by Stalin and made into a union-level republic, the Kazakh SSR.
If you look at the territories traditionally claimed and occupied by the 3 Kazakh zuzhes (a zuzh being something between a nation and a clan), you'll see that they correlate fairly well to the modern borders of Kazakhstan
The green one is the 'junior zuzh', and is the most recent one to have expanded - half of that territory was traditionally controlled by the Nogay horde, but after the Nogays suffered defeats, famines, they started to migrate away in the 17th century.
Anyway, from the 17th century onwards that area around the Caspian started to be settled by Kazakhs from the east (while Russians settled in the territories vacated by the Nogays that are now part of Russia - Orenburg, Saratov and so on).
There is some territory in Kazakhstan that Russians settled before Kazakhs got there - Uralsk, Semipalatinsk for example - and these places are still the centres of major industries. But those territories are fairly small geographically.
/historylesson
These 'zuzh' divisions are still present in Kazakh society and power structures. The strongest protests and best organization has been in the territories of the green zuzh. That's also where there's the most unemployment and the poorest sections of the population - despite also being the centre for Kazakh oil/gas production. It's the most ethnically Kazakh part of Kazakhstan too.
The red section is the elder zuzh, that's where most of the fighting and banditry has been. It's where the Soviet-era capital Almaty is located. Almaty being a bustling metropolitan, multiethnic Russian-speaking centre, while the rest of that territory mostly is full of poor village Kazakhs, Uzbeks and some other people like the Dungans.
And the orange section is the middle zuzh, where the capital was moved to in the 90s, and which has been the quietest and most pro-government part of Kazakhstan during this week's events. A good part of it is pretty Russified, and it's heavily ethnically mixed.
Last edited by flamming_python on Sat Jan 08, 2022 4:19 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Re: 2022 Kazakhstan violent unrest
flamming_python wrote:JohninMK wrote:AZ-5 wrote:cleaning house already..
Kazakhstan detains former national security chief on suspicion of treason
ALMATY, Jan 8 (Reuters) - Authorities in Kazakhstan have detained Karim Massimov, the former head of the national security committee, on suspicion of treason, the security committee said on Saturday. Massimov, who was fired this week as protests raged across the Central Asian country, was detained along with several other officials, the National Security Committee said in a statement. It did not name them or provide further details. Reuters was unable immediately to contact Massimov.
reuters.com
It is a really, really bad idea to initiate a coup and then fail.
My instinct is that the Turks and MI6 (their new boss is an expert in the area, was an Ambassador there, and is close to the Turks) are the sharp end of this attempted colour revolution. Time will tell.
Don't think the Turks are involved
Putin and Erdogan held a conversation by phone about the post-Soviet space just a week or so ago. Not long after both Tokayev and Nazarbayev held talks with Putin at the CIS summit meeting in St. Petersburg.
Just a couple of days ago Lavrov and the current Turkish foreign minister, Cavusoglu, held talks about the conversation in Kazakhstan where they both agreed that the government is making the right decisions in putting down the rebellion, and of course Tokayev thanked Turkey as well in his speech right after Russia and China
Davutoglu, Turkey's former foreign minister and now in opposition to Erdogan, had earlier voiced how Erdogan had not payed enough attention to Kazakhstan
So it's quite possible that Russia and Turkey had earlier agreed about delimitation of influence over the post-Soviet space, which would entail Turkey stopping support of all groups in Central Asia.
In return Turkey's influence in the Transcaucasus can be accepted, and Russia and China might help Turkey with its economy and Eurasian integration.
It's important to note that there are many different political forces in Turkey, some allied to Erdogan and some opposed to him. Many of those may have acted independently in initiating the uprising in Kazakhstan.
Erdogan apparently claimed that any Turkey involvement was from the Gulenist. The same group that tried to dispose him back in 2016.
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franco wrote:Erdogan apparently claimed that any Turkey involvement was from the Gulenist. The same group that tried to dispose him back in 2016.
Classic Erdogan ''don't look at me''.
Reminds me of Georgia harboring all sorts of Chechen fruitcakes during the late 90s and early 00s.
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Thanks! So is there a possibility now that these 3 Kazakh zuzhes will become 3 separate countries?flamming_python wrote:No, rather the Kazakh ASSR was detached from Russia by Stalin and made into a union-level republic, the Kazakh SSR.
If you look at the territories traditionally claimed and occupied by the 3 Kazakh zuzhes (a zuzh being something between a nation and a clan), you'll see that they correlate fairly well to the modern borders of Kazakhstan
Or is it in Russia's interest to keep Kazakshtan intact as one country, given that China is now trying to get involved?
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Re: 2022 Kazakhstan violent unrest
AZ-5 wrote:JohninMK wrote:More of John's random comments from social media
Peter Leonard
@Peter__Leonard
·
1h
Kazakhstan: Expecting in the coming days to hear a lot more about this character, Wild Arman (Arman Dzhumageldiyev), who appears to have been a leading ringleader in the violence in Almaty. He has been under arrest since Friday 1/
That guy flew in the country from straight from TR. There's photos of him on twitter posing with the grey wolves sign..
Is it this fucker?
https://twitter.com/AnnonMedi/status/1479450112363479046
https://centralasia.liveuamap.com/en/2022/7-january-kazakh-police-detained-arman-dzhumageldiev-nicknamed
Hopefully they hang him upside down.
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Re: 2022 Kazakhstan violent unrest
ALAMO wrote:+1flamming_python wrote:Don't think the Turks are involved
Tokayev included Turkey in his thanksgiving list, along with the CSTO allies.
We know about some conversation between the Erdo and Japarov, and the decision that they will settle a contingent was made after that I guess.
Like I said before this was European little project with MI6 taking charge and East Europeans helping stir the pot
Remember, those USA\Russia negotiations are still coming up and funny stuff are likely to happen there, stuff that Europeans (especially Eastern ones) may not like too much
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Sujoy wrote:Thanks! So is there a possibility now that these 3 Kazakh zuzhes will become 3 separate countries?flamming_python wrote:No, rather the Kazakh ASSR was detached from Russia by Stalin and made into a union-level republic, the Kazakh SSR.
If you look at the territories traditionally claimed and occupied by the 3 Kazakh zuzhes (a zuzh being something between a nation and a clan), you'll see that they correlate fairly well to the modern borders of Kazakhstan
Or is it in Russia's interest to keep Kazakshtan intact as one country, given that China is now trying to get involved?
There was actually a debate when the Russians encountered the Kazakhs and started to research their society - about whether the 3 hordes/zhuzes of the Kazakhs are actually one people or not. Because these hordes operated independently, included their own separate families and clans from different lineages (the middle zhuz I think being descended from the Mongols to a large part), and fought/raided each other as often as anyone else.
However ultimately it was decided that they were one people - they after-all spoke the same language and had the same customs. They also did sometimes unite together under a khan and so on.
In the Soviet period a lot of effort was put into eliminating the zhuz divisions as they were seen as a vestige of feudalism. They didn't completely succeed, as you can see them evidenced if not in day to day life, then still exactly things like protests, business interests, capital cities being moved here and there, and many other sociological, political and economic patterns.
However to speak of 3 separate peoples or countries today makes even less sense than it did in the 18th century. It's still one people, even if a somewhat divided one, and the divisions only play out on the macro scale and at most in business, not in ordinary interaction. I don't think any such sentiment about splitting the country is popular there.
Yes it's absolutely in Russia's interests to keep Kazakhstan together and not play destructive politics in the region in any way, shape or form. A united Kazakhstan as a modern republic was a Russian/Soviet idea in the first place. The main thing is that the project doesn't go awry - as it nearly just did.
Last edited by flamming_python on Sat Jan 08, 2022 5:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: 2022 Kazakhstan violent unrest
Imperial Guard detachments deployed in order to support local PDF units on planet Kazakhstan
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flamming_python wrote:Yes it's absolutely in Russia's interests to keep Kazakhstan together and not play destructive politics in the region in any way, shape or form. A united Kazakhstan as a modern republic was a Russian/Soviet idea in the first place. The main thing is that the project doesn't go awry - as it nearly just did.
^^ this. I'm 100% behind this comment.
The moment Russia plays this game in Asia (fragmenting the post-Soviet republics), the more they will be exposed in areas they can't afford to take risks (Far East, meaning China and poss. Japan). Russia is full aware of their strengths and limits in this space. My idea after this csto op, is that all these guys+PRC will gang up and consider an op across the border (Afghan). If they are not pro-active there, it will mathematically come back to bite them, real hard.
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AZ-5 wrote:flamming_python wrote:Yes it's absolutely in Russia's interests to keep Kazakhstan together and not play destructive politics in the region in any way, shape or form. A united Kazakhstan as a modern republic was a Russian/Soviet idea in the first place. The main thing is that the project doesn't go awry - as it nearly just did.
^^ this. I'm 100% behind this comment.
The moment Russia plays this game in Asia (fragmenting the post-Soviet republics), the more they will be exposed in areas they can't afford to take risks (Far East, meaning China and poss. Japan). Russia is full aware of their strengths and limits in this space. My idea after this csto op, is that all these guys+PRC will gang up and consider an op across the border (Afghan). If they are not pro-active there, it will mathematically come back to bite them, real hard.
If we were to imagine Kazakhstan split into 3 countries along zhuz lines - then Western encroachment into Central Asia would become inevitable, along with many other nasty surprises.
Because while one zhuz will take the patronage of Russia, another will take the patronage of the West, a third maybe become infiltrated by Islamists or whatever.
A united Kazakhstan, even if it was politically neutral, keeps all the regressive forces in check, and allows for modernization and improving the social-economic conditions across the whole territory. Which is very much to Russia's benefit, it doesn't need instability or any pro-Turkish, pro-Western or whatever state on its southern border.
But the main thing is that the government must be competent.
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flamming_python wrote:A united Kazakhstan, even if it was politically neutral, keeps all the regressive forces in check, and allows for modernization and improving the social-economic conditions across the whole territory. Which is very much to Russia's benefit, it doesn't need instability or any pro-Turkish, pro-Western or whatever state on its southern border.
But the main thing is that the government must be competent.
Despite my deep contempt to anything communist (sorry pro-soviets) I can't not see their wisdom in stabilising Afghan space. You are right that a unified Kazakhstan is key, but it means very little if you have the extremist danger right next door, brewing and exporting its goods non-stop. As it does now. Soviets had the wisdom to go in hard and probably this bought them time during the 80s in their own 'stans. Remember the first protest in USSR was in Almaty back in 1986 'Jeltoqsan' or later in 1990 riots in Osh and Dushanbe. It's the same today, the safety of central Asia space depends on who's in-charge in Kabul.
Anyhow, won't divert no more. But I have the weird feeling that Almaty this year is related to what happened in Kabul last year.
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Re: 2022 Kazakhstan violent unrest
AZ-5 wrote:...
...International Leaks
@Internl_Leaks 3h
According to the unconfirmed reports, The port of Aktau was taken under protection by the forces of the 414th separate guards battalion of the marines of the Caspian flotilla of the Russian Navy
Caspian Fleet rides again, first they kicked down the door in Syria and now this
magnumcromagnon wrote:From Pepe Escobar:
First big dodgy fish netted in Kazakhstan:
former head of the Committee on National Security, Karim Masimov.
Charged with STATE TREASON.
A lot more Trojan Horses to follow.
https://twitter.com/RealPepeEscobar/status/1479798830128324609
Out-fucking-standing, hopefully plenty more to come
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The Russians have the same historical timeline as the Kazakhs on this land. Ethnically cleansing them is a war crime. Russia
must support both the Donbass and northern Kazakhstan Russian populations. This does not mean any Sudentland style invasions
but it also does not allow for ethnic cleansing.
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AZ-5 wrote:flamming_python wrote:A united Kazakhstan, even if it was politically neutral, keeps all the regressive forces in check, and allows for modernization and improving the social-economic conditions across the whole territory. Which is very much to Russia's benefit, it doesn't need instability or any pro-Turkish, pro-Western or whatever state on its southern border.
But the main thing is that the government must be competent.
Despite my deep contempt to anything communist (sorry pro-soviets) I can't not see their wisdom in stabilising Afghan space. You are right that a unified Kazakhstan is key, but it means very little if you have the extremist danger right next door, brewing and exporting its goods non-stop. As it does now. Soviets had the wisdom to go in hard and probably this bought them time during the 80s in their own 'stans. Remember the first protest in USSR was in Almaty back in 1986 'Jeltoqsan' or later in 1990 riots in Osh and Dushanbe. It's the same today, the safety of central Asia space depends on who's in-charge in Kabul.
Anyhow, won't divert no more. But I have the weird feeling that Almaty this year is related to what happened in Kabul last year.
It is more than a feeling.
The Kazakh jihadis operating in Afghanistan came back home. Wherever there is a conflict in the Muslim world, jihadis flock from all over
to participate. This is convenient for the meddlers since they get to recruit irregulars using assets like Saudi Arabia and Wahabbism.
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kvs wrote:The post by flamming is highly relevant since it debunks the Kazakh nationalist claims on the country's current borders and beyond.
The Russians have the same historical timeline as the Kazakhs on this land. Ethnically cleansing them is a war crime. Russia
must support both the Donbass and northern Kazakhstan Russian populations. This does not mean any Sudentland style invasions
but it also does not allow for ethnic cleansing.
This requires lobbying, is Russia ready to lobby for this w the local clans?
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Vagabönd из Метавселенной Sparkles
@Wild_Vagabond_
Активатор ватного оргазма.
Российские пенсии, новые дороги, больницы, школы и средства на развитие науки, производства и сельского хозяйства прибывают на поддержку братского (Моли) режима в Казахстан.
#Казахстан #KZ #Kazakhstan #KazakhstanProtests #Алматы #Almaty
twitter.com/Wild_Vagabond_/status/1479852269713690624
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AZ-5 wrote:Lots of Candids deployed, massive op.
Vagabönd из Метавселенной Sparkles
@Wild_Vagabond_
Активатор ватного оргазма.
Российские пенсии, новые дороги, больницы, школы и средства на развитие науки, производства и сельского хозяйства прибывают на поддержку братского (Моли) режима в Казахстан.
#Казахстан #KZ #Kazakhstan #KazakhstanProtests #Алматы #Almaty
twitter.com/Wild_Vagabond_/status/1479852269713690624
Some people just can't handle the latest developments. Sucks to be them
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