Who's unconditionally being asked to surrender?
HATO has responded to Russian requests for security guarantees by saying it is not Russias business who joins HATO, it is only between HATO and the country in question.
This will likely result in agreements with Syria and Iran and a range of other countries under threat of attack or interference from the west or in the case of Syria.... occupied territory illegally annexed by Israel...
Should be interesting times.
The fear of sanctions is worth more than the life and blood of Russians for a long time now.
Kool Aide makes you dumb it seems... Russias response to western sanctions has never been any backdown or change in behaviour... and has always been reciprocal sanction measures in response... why would they fear new sanctions... so far they have only made Russia stronger and more independent.
Disillusioned as any man naturally would be.
Disillusioned they could not save the Ukraine... the Ukraine was already lost and was no prize in the first place.... they are better off without it... their capacity for hate seems to be many times their capacity to knuckle down and work hard and dig themselves out of poverty.
I guess Americans will push to the limit and accept Ukraine in NATO regardless.
The Americans can want Ukraine in HATO all they want but it has to be unanimous... what value does the Ukraine bring to HATO?
How many F-35s are they going to buy?
So where did you see they will join NATO?
It is going to take a very long time before the Ukraine could join HATO...
Not that it matters... if the US wants to base missiles there they will.... Japan is not part of HATO either...
Intention and plans change. Like robbing candy from a kid.
Kiev is candy that Russia never had and you are welcome to it... it is snot flavoured.
NATzO membership is decided from Washington.
It is and it isn't... I don't think they will convince the Germans or the French...
Germany, France, Italy and the rest do not have the independence to say no to Washington's
dictates.
Normally you are right, but I think in this case the Ukraine is going to be such a burden it might actually make them reevaluate the role of HATO... the French might leave again...
Even if they had received a "legally binding" security guarantee (on what court, the U.N? lol1 ) it would be worth a broken penny. But they didn't even get the paper lie.
Which completely frees their hands to ensure their own security... this marks the end of HATO expanding and Russia responding... Russia is going to start acting in her own interests and complaints from the west will likely include comments like it is no business of HATO or the US...
If Kiev shells the Crimea, so then all artillery units doing the shelling and those commanders giving the orders will be taken out
There is no need to go in anywhere.
Their might be standoff weapon strikes against the command structure that ordered such an attack to make it less likely to happen again... no invasion but as you say they don't need to... nice powerful strikes against Ukrainian military infrastructure should suffice...
Russia will get sanctioned to hell and back for responding.
Russia could withdraw from SWIFT itself and NSII could also be closed at the Russian end... watching the EU scramble to get enough energy to continue operating will be amusing...
Sanctions for responding to Kiev aggression would be a good signal to hammer Kiev as best they can... if you are to get punished for a crime make sure it is a good crime.
And Zelensky replaced with another amenable puppet ready to do Washington's bidding... including future provocations.
Who cares... no leader of the Ukraine can solve this... they only have the potential to continue their slow death, or make it a fast suicide and dismemberment.
The behaviour and pose of Russia changed, and the USA/UK become more hysterical than any time in the past.
Their tantrums that Russia will invade and all the sanctions they will impose if they do... and then when they get advice that such sanctions would hurt the west more than it would hurt Russia they walk back their talk of sanctions and promise other sanctions that are really strong and will really be effective... because that is why sanctions have never worked before with Russia... they weren't quite hard enough and these new sanctions will do it...
They want the gas flowing through Ukraine and other existing pipelines, not NS2 bypassing Ukraine/Poland. This is elementary stuff.
The US wants that, the Germans want the opposite... this is more about HATO than anything to do with Russia... does Germany have the balls to stand up to the Americans who want Germany to fund Kiev in gas payments and for the EU to pay more for gas so US gas prices are more competitive.
If Russia denies gas through the existing pipeline networks... "weaponized it as a response" then the scalation ladder of economic pain comes into play - including the economic nuclear options like getting booted from the swift instead of simply sectoral, bonds etc. It's a pain dial.
Getting kicked out of SWIFT is already off the table, it would essentially mean the world that buys oil and gas and other things from Russia would need to join their money transfer system which would weaken SWIFT and direct the funds they would make to Russia.
I suspect their response to such a threat would be to double dare you.
Do it.
Still though i am not knowledgeable and certainly dont have the inside track to things so the leaders in Russia might feel it isnt time yet to act.
There is a clear and significant change in Putin.... it clearly is the time... and the west don't understand yet... but they will work it out.
He listens to Igor strelkov who seems to think the situation is dire and the people in the kremlin don’t have a solution. He makes some good points.
Why should we care what this person thinks? Do we care what Navalny thinks? Or how about Zhirinovsky? What about Snowden?
I rather suspect Igor Strelkov thinks Ukraine is Russia and Ukrainians are Russians and Russia needs to rescue them... sometimes it is hard to let go... if you love someone set them free... if they love you they will come back... wouldn't hold my breath but after a few decades with the US and their country is still a third world shithole... they can either blame the US or Russia or themselves... I suspect Russia will get all the blame of course... which is why Russia has no business going in to save them.
Safe space advocacy as a result of strong cognitive dissonance...
Funny... I see in the news Whoopsie Goldberg has said on "The View" that the Holocaust in WWII was not about race and was just white people killing white people.... it seems you are not allowed an opinion and only one view can be presented on The View... love the irony considering her name is Goldberg...
You all have no fucking idea and you're not the first, nor the last to take a wild guess.....
Could care less honestly. Your fanboy super hardon for the all powerful west... did you not see the Wizard of Oz... it is all smoke and mirrors... an empty facade... there is no big powerful org that runs everything that plans everything... it is just idiots elected for charisma and not brains and this time around not even that.... Biden got elected because China paid for the election to get rid of Trump and the democraps let him do it because they wanted the same result...
Israel has more control of international US government policy than US voters do... democracy my arse... money talks and what money says is the people with the most money want more money and screw anyone who gets in their way.
Anybody wanting change is Putins puppet and a communist... western people are so stupid... some of the present company excepted of course.
But even Atlasclub recognises the west is broken and feels helpless to do anything so he hard core fanbois it like he is a part of the machine instead of one of the millions of victims like the rest of us.
Or is this another Van7 account ? Sure looks like it. Isn't multinicking against the rules ?
No hard rules against it, but I monitor and no... not the same IP location.
The more western amateurs like him whine that Kremlin didnt enter, the more we can be reassured of the correct decision
Yeah... when they start saying nice things about Putin and Russia... that is when you worry...
Ten gold stars for the mp.net mention. Tracking the conflict there was what brought me, via themess, here, and you can blame Papa
Thank you Papa...
Turdogan/Turdkey is back on their bullshit, desperate and afraid of their failing economy and has fully ran back in to Uncle Sham's bosom. Time to make some timely phone calls between Cyprus and Greece.
But is he trying to improve relations with the US or is he just trying to get in the middle to appear relevant and important.... like Germany and France do when they offer to mediate things.
A true collection of dimwits... well yes close to 99%, and I might be generous on the 1%.
It is a western habit... focus on the 1% and neglect the rest... with their three jobs they might keep up with rent... or not.
And by the way...USA will be more or less unaffected! So from my point of view the whole Ukraine crisis is managed by Uncle Sam not only to weaken/destroy Russia but do the same to EU and making the whole EU american slaves for the next 10-20 years.
Have said it before and will say it again... the only purpose of HATO is to keep the EU and Russia apart... if they got together... what would either need the US for?
So for me this is an interesting point...because Poland,
Poland took Gazprom to court over the way the price of gas was calculated... it was based on oil prices and while oil remained cheap so did the gas, but the price of oil started to go up and so did the price of gas so Poland demanded the price calculations for gas be changed... Gazprom refused so Poland took them to a European court and won so Gazprom had to change the way the gas price was calculated, which meant they had to pay Poland back 1.5 billion. Of course with EU countries going for spot prices the price of gas started fluctuating wildly and so since that ruling Poland has paid 4 billion more than it would have paid under the previous gas price calculations and now they are asking Gazprom to go back to the old pricing structure/formula.
Hilarious.