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    Russia vs USA war scenarios

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    Post  mnztr Tue Nov 09, 2021 6:07 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    GarryB wrote:
    When was the last time large military aircraft had to use dirt runway anyway?

    Did you not watch the video at the top of this page?

    They train to operate from the dirt strips next to their runways in case those runways are damaged...

    We are talking about nuclear superpower here

    If their runways are being bombed it means that transport aircraft are no longer relevant in this scenario and that everything went to next level

    Chasing these obsolete conventional warfare fantasies is what ballooned Soviet military budget, destroyed their economy and doomed the entire country



    Its not just about runways being bombed. Its about being able to deliver fuel, ammo and replacement troops forward and evac casualties so you can maintain the tempo of the advance. They can just land in a large field with some recon from ground troops, unload trucks of ammo and fuel, pick up the wounded and give a tank batallion resupply with 2-3 IL-76.
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    Post  PapaDragon Tue Nov 09, 2021 8:25 am

    mnztr wrote:...Its not just about runways being bombed. Its about being able to deliver fuel, ammo and replacement troops forward and evac casualties so you can maintain the tempo of the advance. They can just land in a large field with some recon from ground troops, unload trucks of ammo and fuel, pick up the wounded and give a tank batallion resupply with 2-3 IL-76.

    Deliver fuel and ammo for whom?

    Replace troops what for?

    Evac casualties to where?

    Maintain tempo of the advance towards what?


    Nuclear war just started, none of that shit matters anymore



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    Post  mnztr Tue Nov 09, 2021 8:27 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    mnztr wrote:...Its not  just about runways being bombed. Its about being able to deliver fuel, ammo and replacement troops forward and evac casualties so you can maintain the tempo of the advance. They can just land in a large field with some recon from ground troops, unload trucks of ammo and fuel, pick up the wounded and give a tank batallion resupply with 2-3 IL-76.

    Deliver fuel and ammo for whom?

    Replace troops what for?

    Evac casualties to where?

    Maintain tempo of the advance towards what?


    Nuclear war just started, none of that shit matters anymore




    You think Nuclear war will start that easily. What if Russia decided to take the Baltics for example or half of Ukraine. you think the world is gonna commit suicide over that?
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    Post  PapaDragon Tue Nov 09, 2021 8:51 am

    mnztr wrote:...You think Nuclear war will start that easily. What if Russia decided to take the Baltics for example or half of Ukraine. you think the world is gonna commit suicide over that?

    No they won't which is why they will not be touching Russia

    Mainlands are off limits


    Also Russia will not be taking Baltics or the Ukraine, they have no need for them

    Only reason they will be doing anything with those is to preemptively nuke whatever invasion force would assemble there

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    Post  mnztr Tue Nov 09, 2021 11:02 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    mnztr wrote:...You think Nuclear war will start that easily. What if Russia decided to take the Baltics for example or half of Ukraine. you think the world is gonna commit suicide over that?

    No they won't which is why they will not be touching Russia

    Mainlands are off limits


    Also Russia will not be taking Baltics or the Ukraine, they have no need for them

    Only reason they will be doing anything with those is to preemptively nuke whatever invasion force would assemble there


    You have no idea what they will and will not take. Please don't pretend you can see the future. There are strategic reasons that may force Russias hands just like they did in Crimea. If Putin believed what you think, they would not have all that gear. After all, whats he point? If Ukraine joins NATO, something will happen.
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    Post  GarryB Tue Nov 09, 2021 3:19 pm

    If only full scale nuclear wars are possible then a lot of military equipment is pointless.

    There are plenty of situations where being able to land on a rough airstrip is useful... there are plenty of places in Siberia where most europeans would turn their noses up at the quality of the runway... but then that is why they pay half a billion dollars per C-17...
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    Post  PapaDragon Tue Nov 09, 2021 7:31 pm

    mnztr wrote:...You have no idea what they will and will not take. Please don't pretend you can see the future. There are strategic reasons that may force Russias hands just like they did in Crimea. If Putin believed what you think, they would not have all that gear. After all, whats he point? If Ukraine joins NATO, something will happen

    The Ukraine will never join NATO because they will cease to exist the moment the option of joining NATO becomes anything more than dumb fantasy

    No matter what Russia does to any (or all) European countries nobody will be touching anything in Russia, runways included

    Russia took Crimea and nobody fired a bullet

    Russia could incinerate Europe and USA will do nothing because nobody in USA is dumb enough to die in nuclear fire over some nobodies a whole ocean away

    The greatest generation wasn't willing to die for Europe during Cold War and Instagram generation sure as shit won't be dying for them now

    Purpose of Europeans is to die for Americans not the other way around




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    Post  mnztr Wed Nov 10, 2021 4:38 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    mnztr wrote:...You have no idea what they will and will not take. Please don't pretend you can see the future. There are strategic reasons that may force Russias hands just like they did in Crimea. If Putin believed what you think, they would not have all that gear. After all, whats he point? If Ukraine joins NATO, something will happen

    The Ukraine will never join NATO because they will cease to exist the moment the option of joining NATO becomes anything more than dumb fantasy

    No matter what Russia does to any (or all) European countries nobody will be touching anything in Russia, runways included

    Russia took Crimea and nobody fired a bullet

    Russia could incinerate Europe and USA will do nothing because nobody in USA is dumb enough to die in nuclear fire over some nobodies a whole ocean away

    The greatest generation wasn't willing to die for Europe during Cold War and Instagram generation sure as shit won't be dying for them now

    Purpose of Europeans is to die for Americans not the other way around





    If Russia attacks Europe, Americans will die because there are thousands of them stationed there. (once again you are clueless). The US has sent Americans to die in Europe many times. If they will send their kids to die for shitholes like Vietnam, Afghanistan and Iraq, why do you find it so strange they will do it for Europe. Wall Street has a HECK of a lot more $$ invested in Europe then elsewhere. Once again, CLUELESS. The purpose of American dough boys is to die for rich Americans and Europeans.
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    Post  PapaDragon Wed Nov 10, 2021 7:50 am

    mnztr wrote:If Russia attacks Europe, Americans will die because there are thousands of them stationed there. (once again you are clueless). The US has sent Americans to die in Europe many times. If they will send their kids to die for shitholes like Vietnam, Afghanistan and Iraq, why do you find it so strange they will do it for Europe...

    Yes Americans in Europe would die however Americans in America will not die

    They sent them to die in plenty of shitholes and will do so again plenty of times but what they will never do is get Americans in America killed over some disposable Europeans

    They weren't planning on doing it during Cold War and they sure as shit don't plan on doing it now

    Like I said, mainlands are off limits

    Troops abroad can get roasted, planes can get so down, ships can get blown up, client states can get exterminated but anything back home is a no-go

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    Post  GarryB Wed Nov 10, 2021 11:12 am

    Sorry, I need to apologise to PD, I misread his post... he said:

    Not using Il-96 as tanker aircraft is pure waste, they are perfect for that and are readily available

    Yes it can't land on dirt runways but it doesn't need to, they can be stationed in major air bases while Il-76 tankers could be moved further afield if they have such a boner for dirt runways

    When was the last time large military aircraft had to use dirt runway anyway?

    So he is essentially saying that Il-96 in an inflight refuelling role for strategic aircraft like the Tu-95 and Tu-160 don't need to operate from dirt runways... which is essentially what I had said too... strategic runways will be rather well protected so the need for them to be able to operate from rough strips is zero.

    Other aircraft including tactical fighters and the aircraft that support them (like Il-78 refuelling aircraft) would benefit from being rough air strip capable, though obviously operating from a hard runway would improve payload and range performance...
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    Post  mnztr Wed Nov 10, 2021 11:13 am

    So your premise is that the US troops overseas will be fighting and will get NO ASSISTANCE from the USA? No planes or bombers or supply will come from USA and the US govt will assure the Russians of this crazy scenario? And the Russians will believe them? Wow that is quite a drug fueled fantasy. If Russia attacks Europe for whatever reason, they will assume Article 5 applies. So they will conduct conventional cruise missile strikes to a host of US targets to slow down US reinforcement of Europe. Air bases, harbours, airports all that stuff. Oil storage, rail pipelines. There is NO WAY the homeland is untouched.  If the US uses nukes then the Russians will as well. But both sides will be reluctant to escalate beyond conventional weapons. Even conventional is incredibly scary.

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    Post  PapaDragon Wed Nov 10, 2021 8:19 pm

    mnztr wrote:So your premise is that the US troops overseas will be fighting and will get NO ASSISTANCE from the USA?...

    Do you even read?

    They will get plenty of assistance and will be fighting ferociously... up until the point when mainland USA gets under threat

    That's when they stop

    It doesn't matter how many europeans or any other disposable trash gets roasted, American territory will not be risked because that's where people and money are

    Why the hell do you think they have so many assets in Europe? It's to make sure they fight Russia on someone else's turf

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    Post  calripson Wed Nov 10, 2021 10:43 pm

    America is never fighting a total war with Russia nor China. Nobody is committing suicide for Latvia or Taiwan. They enjoy their lives too much. It's all hype to keep the trillion dollar gravy train and the military/intelligence bureaucracy chugging along.

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    Post  mnztr Thu Nov 11, 2021 5:52 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    mnztr wrote:So your premise is that the US troops overseas will be fighting and will get NO ASSISTANCE from the USA?...

    Do you even read?

    They will get plenty of assistance and will be fighting ferociously... up until the point when mainland USA gets under threat

    That's when they stop

    It doesn't matter how many europeans or any other disposable trash gets roasted, American territory will not be risked because that's where people and money are

    Why the hell do you think they have so many assets in Europe? It's to make sure they fight Russia on someone else's turf


    This is even more rediculous. You expect the Russian to be fighting the US troops in Europe, and not attacking their supply chain? Wow those are some fine drugs you have been taking. Hey, comrade, lets fight the yankees in Europe and allow them to resupply untouched, even though we have intercontinental bombers and cruise missiles. Lets just make it even harder because we are Russian and like to do things the hard way !! lol. If article 5 is invoked, why would Russia spare the USA from attack? Its just an absurd concept. BTW all the money is NOT in the USA, that is another absurd and dellusional concept. The EU actually has a pretty large GDP.


    Last edited by mnztr on Thu Nov 11, 2021 5:59 am; edited 3 times in total
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    Post  mnztr Thu Nov 11, 2021 5:53 am

    calripson wrote:America is never fighting a total war with Russia nor China. Nobody is committing suicide for Latvia or Taiwan. They enjoy their lives too much. It's all hype to keep the trillion dollar gravy train and the military/intelligence bureaucracy chugging along.

    Everyone knows that is the plan. But as they say, no plan survives first contact with the enemy. WW1 was supposed to be a short affair remember?
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    Post  PapaDragon Thu Nov 11, 2021 8:09 am

    mnztr wrote:You expect the Russian to be fighting the US troops in Europe, and not attacking their supply chain?...

    Supply chain runs through Europe and Atlantic, of course they would attack it

    Weren't you listening? Europe is fair game because ​it's not enemy's​ mainland



    mnztr wrote:...If article 5 is invoked, why would Russia spare the USA from attack?...

    Europeans can invoke article 5 till the cows come home, USA will not be dying in the nuclear fire for them

    They will fight in Europe as hard as they feel like it (and to the last european) but they will never touch Russian mainland themselves because that would leave them open to Russian retaliation on their mainland

    They will let Europeans try that (and suffer immediate disproportionate retaliation)



    mnztr wrote:...The EU actually has a pretty large GDP

    Which is EU's problem not American

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    Post  mnztr Thu Nov 11, 2021 9:27 am

    Haha that is pretty funny. Somehow the supply chain stops in the atlantic? Not on the continental USA? So you expect the Russians to allow the USA peace and calm to load the ships while they wait to intercept them? Why not just attack all the eastern seaboard ports, pipelines, railway hubs and all the military airfields with swarms of cruise missles. Do you really think the Russians are that dumb. BTW if the Europeans decide to use their OWN nukes, the Russians are not going to differentiate if they are French or British nukes or the US warheads stored in Europe. Your whole premise is utterly ABSURD. If you think the USA can just sit pretty like they did in WWII untouched when Russia has thousands of weapons that can strike the continental USA then I really don't know what to say with this level of delusion.
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    Post  PapaDragon Thu Nov 11, 2021 9:51 am


    Exterminating europeans as a warning to USA doesn't risk nuclear retaliation, attacking USA mainland does

    USA and Russia do not want to get nuked and they will kill as many europeans as they need to in order to make sure they don't

    Why risk death when you can just eradicate some clowns to make sure you stay safe?

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    Post  mnztr Thu Nov 11, 2021 11:32 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Exterminating europeans as a warning to USA doesn't risk nuclear retaliation, attacking USA mainland does

    USA and Russia do not want to get nuked and they will kill as many europeans as they need to in order to make sure they don't

    Why risk death when you can just eradicate some clowns to make sure you stay safe?


    When you go to war you are risking it all. There is no gurantee the US will not try some preemptive strike. If there is a war with NATO Russia will attack the US, but not with Nuclear weapons. Russia will stick to conventinal weapons. If the US attacks with nukes, they will get nuked. But Russia will not risk losing a European war and that will require delaying the US from reinforcing Europe. Once they have achived objectives they will declare a ceasefire and offer negotiations. They will not want the US dealing from a position of strength. Whatever brings things to his point, the USA will be involved.
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    Post  GarryB Thu Nov 11, 2021 2:37 pm

    Russia vs USA war scenarios Scale_12

    What can sometimes happen to sticks used to poke the bear...

    The order of sticks available for use...

    Russia vs USA war scenarios Peckin13

    Also known as pecking order...

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    Post  JohninMK Thu Nov 11, 2021 3:27 pm

    C'mon Garry, don't add to the fire, move it to Talking Bollocks where it belongs. This is nothing to do with the Il-76.

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    Post  mnztr Thu Nov 11, 2021 10:03 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Exterminating europeans as a warning to USA doesn't risk nuclear retaliation, attacking USA mainland does

    USA and Russia do not want to get nuked and they will kill as many europeans as they need to in order to make sure they don't

    Why risk death when you can just eradicate some clowns to make sure you stay safe?


    BTW Russia actually see the USA as the clowns, along with the UK. They actually see eye to eye on many things with France and Germany
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    Post  PapaDragon Fri Nov 12, 2021 12:35 am

    mnztr wrote:...BTW Russia actually see the USA as the clowns, along with the UK. They actually see eye to eye on many things with France and Germany

    On which things?

    When USA says 'jump' France and Germany say 'how high?'

    France and Germany are even more insignificant than UK

    Only thing that matters is USA, everything in Europe is expendable, it was during Cold War and it is today



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    Post  mnztr Fri Nov 12, 2021 5:27 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    mnztr wrote:...BTW Russia actually see the USA as the clowns, along with the UK. They actually see eye to eye on many things with France and Germany

    On which things?

    When USA says 'jump' France and Germany say 'how high?'

    France and Germany are even more insignificant than UK

    Only thing that matters is USA, everything in Europe is expendable, it was during Cold War and it is today




    Oh really? then how did Nord Stream 2 get built with all the US bitching, moaning and sanction. I think that was Merkels middle finger.

    The UK was ONLY important as long as it has a seat at the EU table, now it will continue its slide down to the same relevance as Sweden.
    Everything in the USA is expendable except the coasts and Texas. Other then that its just trash. US is considerably more trashy then Europe. US makes shitty cars, deadly airplanes and fake money and terrible food. Thats about it.
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    Post  GarryB Fri Nov 12, 2021 7:50 am

    The US tends to join conflicts it thinks it can win.... when US politicians talk to pentagon officials about conflict with China or conflict with Russia or both then I think the politicians are going to set records in their back tracking.

    The US was in no position to help Georgia but even if they could I really don't think they would, and I would suggest the same regarding the Ukraine and the Baltic states and Poland.

    The problem really is that Russia does not actually want the Ukraine or Poland or Baltic state territory... the only time they will send in troops will be like the Crimea or Georgia where in the former case they kept the peace while the locals decided what they wanted, or in Georgia they invaded into Georgia deep enough to silence the artillery and make sure there was no staging areas available for mounting counter attacks and then they withdrew to what they saw and the legitimate boundaries.

    There was no urge to occupy hostile populations with the hope of brain washing them into accepting them as their new masters like the US in Afghanistan or Syria or Libya or Iraq.

    Russia does not want to conquer more land and more peoples, they want the capacity to destroy threats on their borders and to live in peace without being told what to do or how to behave by the EU or UK or US.... which is obviously unacceptable for the west who thinks it has the right to spread its decadent culture to every corner of the planet.

    War with Russia is most likely to be started by the west in desperation when they realise what they are doing is not working and they are eating themselves... but Russia wont be invading or occupying... more likely it will be using its new standoff weapons and strike capability and electronics potential to cut off heads of enemy governments and neuter the armed forces of their enemies by taking out ammo and fuel and equipment.

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