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    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8

    Isos
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    Post  Isos Mon May 23, 2022 8:59 am

    Aim-120D is a aim120C that just has a "ballistic missile" trajectory. It's actual fuel is the same as the aim120C which has 105km range so even the 180km is a joke.

    Meteor is the best missile out there and its official range has never been leaked. You only see >100km which means nothing because it's much more than that.

    R-77-1 has better fuel than r-27.

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    Post  TMA1 Mon May 23, 2022 10:09 am

    Interestingly the meteor has a good but old mechanically steered pulse doppler radar head on it. The newer Russian missiles will indeed have fixed asea heads. This is a vast improvement as it's scan speed will be vastly superior and clarity much greater. Also some rumors about very unique aspects to the duel pulse motor on the r-77m and smart programmed use of the second pulse allowing it to have strong kinematics throughout flight.

    Edit: had t o correct word area to aesa

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    Post  Backman Tue May 24, 2022 4:15 am

    limb wrote:
    LMFS wrote:5, one delivered end of 2020, another 2 end of 2021 and 2 more beginning of 2022, IIRC

    I thought 5 were delivered in 2021. If the above is true, production rates haven't picked up in the slightest, and the Su-57 is built like a boutique super car, not a serially  produced aircraft. What happened to the enhanced reality assembly assistance? This should have massively upped production numbers. The production numbers should be 15-20 Su-57s per year. But this may be a pipe dream given that even Su-35 numbers are less than 20 per year, and the infinitely simpler(in terms of electronics, metallurgy, composite material engineering, semiconductors) inokhodets is produced in even more pathetic boutique numbers.

    You are aware that the UK France and Germany or Sweden can't decide what their plywood vaporware 5th gen fighter is going to look like right ? These are historic aviation powers.

    So what's the big deal that Russia isn't quite building enough su 57's in a year for your liking ?

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    Post  GarryB Tue May 24, 2022 10:25 am

    R-37M is a different class of missile, and its not ideal against fighter sized targets.

    That is not true... it can engage 8g targets, which means it is not like the R-33 which was mostly for use against large aircraft like inflight refuelling aircraft and AWACS and also bombers like B-52s and B-1Bs and B-2s.
    The fact that it has not been widely deployed for all Su-35s etc does not mean it wont... the weapon bay of the Su-57 is supposed to be compatible, though I suspect the product 810 fits better.

    Also all medium to long range AAMs use lofted trajectories, making them have a huge energy advantage over intercepting missiles. You keep claiming that AAMs can destroy other AAMs. Has this ever been tested by any air force? If yes, which one, when and what was the probability of successfully hitting them.

    Most Soviet/Russian SAMS are designed to shoot down HARM type weapons... they have proximity fuses and don't actually have to hit anything to be successful.

    During the cold war the Soviets had the R-27P and R-27EP which are passive radar homers that home in on enemy radar and jammers.... for instance if you are flying along and suddenly get illuminated by an F-15 that is launching a SPARROW SARH missile at you you can fire an R-27EP at him which will home in on the radar signal from the F-15s radar that is illuminating your aircraft for his missile to hit. Your missile is faster and has longer range... more importantly when you launch your missile you are free to manouver as you please because it is fire and forget... the target is in illumination mode and wont detect your missile so your missile hits first and the illumination stops so his missile misses.

    There is no reason why such a missile could not be used against ground based radar illuminators, or indeed missiles like AMRAAM which carry their own radar illuminator...

    The 9M100 missile that is part of the ground based S-350 air defence system and is also part of the naval Redut SAM system that is optimised for short range self defence (CIWS) is also reportedly being developed as an air to air missile for self defence because it can be carried internally and fired without a target lock, with its lock on after launch capacity.

    Originally it was supposed to be an IIR guided weapon like LMUR, but it seems they went for ARH for full all weather capability... either guidance option would be precise enough for anti missile use.


    Btw those numbers are full of shit because they won't disclose the real value to the enemy.

    Another important factor is these are ideal conditions launches... just because they state an AMRAAM can hit a target at 80km that normally means the launch aircraft is above 10km altitude and flying fast... probably supersonic, and the target is a closing target, so even when they say you can launch it against 80km targets the fact that the target is closing distance throughout the engagment means the actual flight distance of the missile might be 65 or 70km.

    Of course against an Su-57 it might have problems getting a reliable lock when it gets closer.

    How do we know that the AIM-120 D doesn't have 180km range and the MBDA meteor doesn't have 250km range? That could be their non doiwngraded range.

    So far the record of the west for product performance figures has been very weak...

    Their armour penetration claims for ATGMs from the 1980s and 1990s were outright lies.

    The R-77 has more subsonic e drag due to grid fins and is a smaller missile than the R-27, so it's believabls that it has lower no escape zone

    Hahahaha... and how much of its flight profile will be be flying subsonic?

    The tiny little control surfaces on the AMRAAM that give it low drag also means its turning performance is actually pretty weak which makes evading it much easier.

    The grid fins of the R-77 means it can turn harder without stalling and hit targets that might have dodged another missile.

    BTW if you think grid fins are high drag then ask yourself why they use them on the Tochka SSM... the longer ranged Iskander uses thrust vectoring for manouver so it eliminated external control surfaces completely.

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    Post  TMA1 Fri May 27, 2022 4:43 pm

    https://translate.google.com/website?sl=ru&tl=en&hl=en-US&client=webapp&u=https://t.me/s/nskplanes

    https://t.me/s/nskplanes

    Two new su-57's transferred to the air force?

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    Post  Isos Fri May 27, 2022 7:10 pm

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    Post  Belisarius Fri May 27, 2022 9:17 pm

    7 Su-57 now?
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    Post  George1 Fri May 27, 2022 9:19 pm

    Belisarius wrote:7 Su-57 now?

    5

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    Post  Podlodka77 Fri May 27, 2022 9:35 pm

    5....

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8 - Page 11 Felon_10

    1. Su-57; bort 01 "blue"

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8 - Page 11 Fksp-210


    2 and 3; bort 02 "red" and bort 52 "red..

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8 - Page 11 Ftywru10


    4 and 5; Isos Su-57's or bort 53 "red" and bort 54 "red".


    Last edited by Podlodka77 on Fri May 27, 2022 9:49 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Post  lancelot Fri May 27, 2022 9:39 pm

    https://aviation21.ru/vks-rossii-poluchili-eshhyo-dva-istrebitelya-su-57/

    Contains picture of BORT 052 Blue.

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    Post  Podlodka77 Fri May 27, 2022 9:43 pm

    lancelot wrote:https://aviation21.ru/vks-rossii-poluchili-eshhyo-dva-istrebitelya-su-57/

    Contains picture of BORT 052 Blue.

    Thanks for the info because I didn't know that, since the picture I posted is 52 "red". This means that "red 52" is repainted in "52 blue".
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    Post  lancelot Fri May 27, 2022 9:55 pm

    https://aviation21.ru/v-tolmachyovo-dva-novyx-su-57-popali-na-lyubitelskie-foto/

    No. There is a 052 Red, and a 052 Blue. See the article above.
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    Post  Podlodka77 Fri May 27, 2022 10:08 pm

    Then I didn't make a mistake after all, because the 052 "blue" may be the former T-50-11, that is 511 "blue". However, I did not know that the number of that plane had changed.

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8 - Page 11 Djcluq10

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    Post  George1 Sat May 28, 2022 12:11 pm

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8 - Page 11 96647010
    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8 - Page 11 96648810
    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8 - Page 11 96653610

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    Post  limb Sat May 28, 2022 6:03 pm

    I thought there were 5 Su-57s delivered in 2022, not 2. That extra 2 must mean that there are 8 su-57s now.
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    Post  Backman Thu Jun 02, 2022 4:05 pm

    Steve Trimble from went on the aviation week podcast to discuss the new Top Gun movie. One of his gripes was that they hype up the su 57 too much.

    He said "its really just a 4.5++++ aircraft". Cope.

    Isn't it kinda cringe that they make a new movie in 2022 like this and it features the early 4th gen Tomcat ? The Tomcat is a cool plane no less. They partly answer this question in the podcast.
    It would have cost too much to film the F-35 due to the expensive flight hours Very Happy Presumably the same is true with the F-22.

    Podcast link https://aviationweek.com/defense-space/podcast-top-gun-maverick-spoiler-special

    Also. This aviation week podcast changed their logo about 6 months ago.

    Yep. That's right. This is an su 57 in their new logo. This isn't just an episode logo. This is their permanent logo. I understand why. The su 57 has the best lines of any fighter.

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8 - Page 11 Df6kw9c-5ae1f506-2dc7-4b7b-a53b-2d707cc7095c.jpg?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcLzY3MzJmNjNmLWQ1NGYtNDc4OS1iNGVhLWRlNGUyMTMzMmQ5NlwvZGY2a3c5Yy01YWUxZjUwNi0yZGM3LTRiN2ItYTUzYi0yZDcwN2NjNzA5NWMuanBnIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0

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    Post  Isos Thu Jun 02, 2022 6:33 pm

    With a MS-21 in the background Very Happy

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    Post  PapaDragon Thu Jun 02, 2022 7:51 pm

    Backman wrote:...Isn't it kinda cringe that they make a new movie in 2022 like this and it features the early 4th gen Tomcat ? The Tomcat is a cool plane no less. ...

    They mostly use F-18s but F-14 is used as the ''cool plane'' in the last fight scene simply because even after all this time it's still the coolest plane ever made, nothing before or since came even close and they know it

    Top Gun was never about fighting the ''enemy'' (which never gets named anyway, first movie was ripping off Gulf of Sidra incident) it's about lubed-up good looking dudes wearing swimsuits and sunglasses playing beach sports and high-fiving each other in order to make teen girls horny (sequel masterfully added  housewives to that target audience)

    As for the combat scenes they just took all the cool things they could find and blended them together: Stonehenge mission layout from Ace Combat,  trench run from Star Wars, Su-57 as final boss plane from Russia and air-force with F-14s and uranium enrichment from Iran

    As John Connor would say, easy money


    EDIT: They also ripped-off airplane theft scene from movie Iron Eagle which is ironic since Iron Eagle was a rip-off of Top-Gun  lol1






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    Post  TMA1 Thu Jun 02, 2022 7:57 pm

    ...not the cringe fighter generation argument again. There is no doubt in the late 90s/early 2000 we had moved far ahead in the aviation field. Still no doubt we have some amazing kit and still some good engineers but we largely squandered our fortunes and are only now picking up the ball again after our unipolar bubble was burst hard. We are so full of hubris it isnt even funny.

    The su-57 is like the archangel of fighters. Pinnacle of aerodynamics and design. No other fifth gen can touch it in its grace and raw power and omnirole ability. The more I learn the more I love it. Even with it's current engines and avionics it can stand proud amongst peers. With the su-57m it will step ahead. Going into the early 2030s that will probably not be the case but the fighter they have made will stand the test of decades in future upgrades and development.

    It certainly beats the new prospective turk fighter and korean fighter. It is a peer to the j-20 though clearly thry are different beasts with differing needs. The NGAD will be fierce competition and the more you study the development you see they are learning from Russians and Chinese in the need for long legs and great interception capabilities.

    In short the fanboys can seethe all thry like. It cannot take from what the Russians have done in the development of the su-57.

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    Post  Backman Thu Jun 02, 2022 11:29 pm

    Isos wrote:With a MS-21 in the background Very Happy

    I was gonna ask how you identified it but Idea , no winglets ! That makes it a MS-21

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    Post  Isos Fri Jun 03, 2022 10:20 am

    Backman wrote:
    Isos wrote:With a MS-21 in the background Very Happy

    I was gonna ask how you identified it but Idea , no winglets ! That makes it a MS-21

    Actually I checked the windows shapes. They are different from one company to the other.

    That's how you know if it is a boeing or an airbus.

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    Post  Backman Sat Jun 11, 2022 12:16 am

    Does anyone know where to find the original production schedules for aircraft like the F-15 or F-18 or 16? I heard that they didn't produce very many at the start. And I'd like to compare it to the su 57
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    Post  LMFS Mon Jun 13, 2022 12:13 pm

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8 - Page 11 UJxpuzhh4z0rhwUQvRJpCZKPvBUb9tgdrAvNpgYAa-qxX2aO6GhY5xB9TGLAsHlg-CrRITFGGmvq04O6BjuK4WNj

    Russia has tested the technology of future air wars in Ukraine

    https://vz.ru/society/2022/6/9/1162360.html

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    Post  PapaDragon Mon Jun 13, 2022 1:50 pm


    Interior actually looks like aircraft factory now?

    How far have we come thumbsup

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    Post  Scorpius Mon Jun 13, 2022 2:43 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Interior actually looks like aircraft factory now?

    How far have we come thumbsup

    well, this is quite a normal state of the final assembly shop. Not much different from what I saw more than 10 years ago.

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