Russia Defence Forum

Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


+58
Krepost
ALAMO
Werewolf
RTN
Tolstoy
sepheronx
Sujoy
Gazputin
Belisarius
flamming_python
lyle6
Stealthflanker
Swgman_BK
PeregrineFalcon
limb
Hole
George1
medo
AMCXXL
TMA1
magnumcromagnon
gmsmith1985
tanino
Flanky
galicije83
Podlodka77
LMFS
calripson
PapaDragon
mnztr
GarryB
Jeremy Sun
Arkanghelsk
ult
owais.usmani
Backman
thegopnik
Atmosphere
miketheterrible
Bob Bollusc
lancelot
Autodestruct
Isos
Arrow
Lennox
Scorpius
Cheetah
franco
Mir
Broski
dino00
kvs
Kiko
hoom
The-thing-next-door
marcellogo
JohninMK
Gomig-21
62 posters

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8

    Hole
    Hole


    Posts : 7952
    Points : 7940
    Join date : 2018-03-24
    Age : 46
    Location : Scholzistan

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8 - Page 9 Empty Re: Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8

    Post  Hole Sat Feb 05, 2022 7:18 pm

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8 - Page 9 F8xonx10
    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8 - Page 9 Ywq1j510
    To keep them warm Very Happy

    GarryB, medo, dino00, magnumcromagnon, Big_Gazza and Arkanghelsk like this post

    Hole
    Hole


    Posts : 7952
    Points : 7940
    Join date : 2018-03-24
    Age : 46
    Location : Scholzistan

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8 - Page 9 Empty Re: Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8

    Post  Hole Sat Feb 05, 2022 7:19 pm

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8 - Page 9 Nacr5o10
    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8 - Page 9 Ngfg4i10
    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8 - Page 9 So6vqa10

    GarryB, medo, dino00, magnumcromagnon, Big_Gazza, DerWolf, zardof and like this post

    GarryB
    GarryB


    Posts : 34830
    Points : 35348
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8 - Page 9 Empty Re: Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8

    Post  GarryB Sun Feb 06, 2022 2:39 am

    To keep them warm

    Such tarps don't generate heat, they just prevent ice buildup and snow from settling on the surface... it is like putting newspaper on your car windscreen in winter so you don't have to scrape a layer of ice off it in the morning... Very Happy
    avatar
    Swgman_BK


    Posts : 40
    Points : 62
    Join date : 2022-02-10

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8 - Page 9 Empty SU57 STEALTH

    Post  Swgman_BK Thu Feb 10, 2022 8:02 pm

    Where do people get the SU57 RCS figures from? As far as I know Sukhoi hasnt released any figures yet. How do people know its less stealthy than the F35 and F22? Is it just a general hate for anything Russian in the western world?

    Backman likes this post

    JohninMK
    JohninMK


    Posts : 11732
    Points : 11859
    Join date : 2015-06-16
    Location : England

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8 - Page 9 Empty Re: Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8

    Post  JohninMK Thu Feb 10, 2022 8:49 pm

    Please introduce yourself before posting as per the site rules.

    Also, starting narrow topic threads like this is frowned on as it clogs things up. It should be in the normal Su-57 thread.

    magnumcromagnon likes this post

    Isos
    Isos


    Posts : 10213
    Points : 10199
    Join date : 2015-11-06

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8 - Page 9 Empty Re: Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8

    Post  Isos Thu Feb 10, 2022 10:07 pm

    They take those values from their ass mainly. Some try making rcs measurement softwares but they are stupid people with no background and take some formulas and some data they find on internet.

    All the figures are not real.

    magnumcromagnon, Big_Gazza, PapaDragon, miketheterrible and Arkanghelsk like this post

    magnumcromagnon
    magnumcromagnon


    Posts : 8158
    Points : 8303
    Join date : 2013-12-05
    Location : Pindos ave., Pindosville, Pindosylvania, Pindostan

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8 - Page 9 Empty Re: Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8

    Post  magnumcromagnon Thu Feb 10, 2022 10:41 pm

    Isos wrote:They take those values from their ass mainly. Some try making rcs measurement softwares but they are stupid people with no background and take some formulas and some data they find on internet.

    All the figures are not real.

    I think kvs called it eye-balled RCS evaluation. But here's something to consider:

    Something that's poorly understood by Westerners is the Su-57's doctrine of operation, which is purely defensive (i.e. defend Russian airspace), and it's means of operating.

    Because it's primary purpose is to defend Russian airspace it could rely on both 'Early Warning' and OTH radars, etc. through data links, and likely could launch R-37M's without even turning it's radar on.

    Another aspect to consider is the fact that Russia never puts all it's eggs in one basket. Russia will have Su-57's with RAM coating and stealth shaping which will be quite effective against X-band radar, but there is other pieces to the jigsaw puzzle. They also have ECM systems on the ground that will mask Su-57 presence through the electromagnetic spectrum by blurring and obscuring the EM spectrum giving back poor radar signal returns. They can spoof ELINT/SIGINT/radars of OPFOR with false readings and false targets, as well as outright jamming them. There's also been talk that Su-57's will incorporate electromagnetic opaque aerosol dispensers in the rear next to the jet engine thrust nozzles.

    Big_Gazza, PapaDragon, JohninMK, LMFS, Arkanghelsk and Swgman_BK like this post

    Atmosphere
    Atmosphere


    Posts : 223
    Points : 225
    Join date : 2021-01-31

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8 - Page 9 Empty Re: Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8

    Post  Atmosphere Fri Feb 11, 2022 2:00 am

    Swgman_BK wrote:Where do people get the SU57 RCS figures from? As far as I know Sukhoi hasnt released any figures yet. How do people know its less stealthy than the F35 and F22? Is it just a general hate for anything Russian in the western world?

    They got them from thin air, and wet dreams.
    Sukhoi only made the very known statement that a typical stealth aircraft has an average RCS value in the 0.X range. For practical purposes.
    avatar
    Swgman_BK


    Posts : 40
    Points : 62
    Join date : 2022-02-10

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8 - Page 9 Empty Re: Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8

    Post  Swgman_BK Fri Feb 11, 2022 2:16 am

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    Isos wrote:They take those values from their ass mainly. Some try making rcs measurement softwares but they are stupid people with no background and take some formulas and some data they find on internet.

    All the figures are not real.

    I think kvs called it eye-balled RCS evaluation. But here's something to consider:

    Something that's poorly understood by Westerners is the Su-57's doctrine of operation, which is purely defensive (i.e. defend Russian airspace), and it's means of operating.

    Because it's primary purpose is to defend Russian airspace it could rely on both 'Early Warning' and OTH radars, etc. through data links, and likely could launch R-37M's without even turning it's radar on.

    Another aspect to consider is the fact that Russia never puts all it's eggs in one basket. Russia will have Su-57's with RAM coating and stealth shaping which will be quite effective against X-band radar, but there is other pieces to the jigsaw puzzle. They also have ECM systems on the ground that will mask Su-57 presence through the electromagnetic spectrum by blurring and obscuring the EM spectrum giving back poor radar signal returns. They can spoof ELINT/SIGINT/radars of OPFOR with false readings and false targets, as well as outright jamming them. There's also been talk that Su-57's will incorporate electromagnetic opaque aerosol dispensers in the rear next to the jet engine thrust nozzles.



    can you explain the electromagnetic opaque aerosol dispensers part?
    magnumcromagnon
    magnumcromagnon


    Posts : 8158
    Points : 8303
    Join date : 2013-12-05
    Location : Pindos ave., Pindosville, Pindosylvania, Pindostan

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8 - Page 9 Empty Re: Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8

    Post  magnumcromagnon Fri Feb 11, 2022 2:37 am

    Swgman_BK wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    Isos wrote:They take those values from their ass mainly. Some try making rcs measurement softwares but they are stupid people with no background and take some formulas and some data they find on internet.

    All the figures are not real.

    I think kvs called it eye-balled RCS evaluation. But here's something to consider:

    Something that's poorly understood by Westerners is the Su-57's doctrine of operation, which is purely defensive (i.e. defend Russian airspace), and it's means of operating.

    Because it's primary purpose is to defend Russian airspace it could rely on both 'Early Warning' and OTH radars, etc. through data links, and likely could launch R-37M's without even turning it's radar on.

    Another aspect to consider is the fact that Russia never puts all it's eggs in one basket. Russia will have Su-57's with RAM coating and stealth shaping which will be quite effective against X-band radar, but there is other pieces to the jigsaw puzzle. They also have ECM systems on the ground that will mask Su-57 presence through the electromagnetic spectrum by blurring and obscuring the EM spectrum giving back poor radar signal returns. They can spoof ELINT/SIGINT/radars of OPFOR with false readings and false targets, as well as outright jamming them. There's also been talk that Su-57's will incorporate electromagnetic opaque aerosol dispensers in the rear next to the jet engine thrust nozzles.



    can you explain the electromagnetic opaque aerosol dispensers part?

    The EM opaque aerosols/cosmosols effectively absorb EM radiation, like RAM but far better and covers the whole entirety of EM spectrum.



    Last edited by magnumcromagnon on Fri Feb 11, 2022 2:43 am; edited 1 time in total

    GarryB, JPJ, kvs and Arkanghelsk like this post

    GarryB
    GarryB


    Posts : 34830
    Points : 35348
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8 - Page 9 Empty Re: Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8

    Post  GarryB Fri Feb 11, 2022 7:00 am

    I think part of it is a different approach... if you have ever seen a 2D graph showing RCS for a complex shape like an aircraft it is all spikey for each different angle so the idea that one number can describe the stealth level of an aircraft is a bit ridiculous.

    Like this for instance:

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8 - Page 9 Freque10

    As you can see the figure is massively variable depending on the angle you view the aircraft from... things like the fuselage side and vertical tail surfaces and engine and tail interactions make side and rear RCS rather bigger than the frontal aspect... but of course this chart needs a radar frequency to qualify it... against a longer wave radar the numbers would be closer to the actual size of the aircraft... BTW I do not vouch for the information in this picture... just posted it as an example.

    Imagine the same view in 3D... an incredibly complex porcupine...

    The core of the issue is that for marketing purposes the west tends to use peak numbers for its own stealth designs and the Russians use a more realistic average figure... so the Su-57 having a RCS of 0.1 to 0.5 might actually be better than an F-35 with a peak figure of 0.001, because that might be the best ideal angle and frequency... which may never be achieved.

    magnumcromagnon, Big_Gazza, galicije83, Singular_Transform, Atmosphere, Broski, Arkanghelsk and Belisarius like this post

    Stealthflanker
    Stealthflanker


    Posts : 1325
    Points : 1405
    Join date : 2009-08-04
    Age : 34
    Location : Indonesia

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8 - Page 9 Empty Re: Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8

    Post  Stealthflanker Wed Feb 16, 2022 11:27 pm

    Eh, there are many ways to present RCS numbers. Unfortunately in general, "public" number they are presented without context. e.g Frequency or polarization. Both Russian and US also Chinese numbers lacks frequency information and people just assume it's for X-band which is dangerous.  Even worse there are no real established standard on what to present and how, so everyone is basically doing their own thing. Thus makes the value from all sides practically useless for any purpose other than just to show "relative magnitude" of the RCS.


    There is however some pointers. If one read "RCS Measurements" by E Knott particularly at Page 351-383 about Data smoothing and basically what to do with the measurement data. One would see that it has to be processed statistically.  The data will need to be presented in smoothed form or in Median or mean value.

    Page 383 further elaborated about the "users" of the data and what value which may be of their interest. For radar designers and engineers it is CDF (Cumulative Distribution Function) or PDF (Probability Density Function) That serve the most important function. While other user maybe interested in something else e.g the generation mechanism or just to find which side to treat and the potential effect of say changes in design.

    in "Electromagnetic Wave Scattering by Aerial and Ground Radar" by Oleg Sukharevsky, elaborated further on the method of data reduction and curve fitting for the PDF.  The book gave Median RCS for the value to go for quick calculation of radar range against certain target, which assumes the target will remain steady.  The median value provides 50% probability that one will encounter that Median RCS with 50% others are either bigger or smaller value than that.

    In case of random orientation of target however PDF equation should be used, These equations however might produce unrealistic result, for which the book suggest to use data Histogram to gain the proper value or just try fit some other equation.

    The simplest way however is to assume the aircraft target to be a Swerling case-1 target which is a reasonable assumption for a target which illuminated by a single frequency. The PDF equation for Swerling case-1/2 are widely known. This requires average RCS for which to calculate "the most likely encountered RCS" for the target.

    Now let's assume value of 0.057 sqm of average RCS.  and No, one does not use this value directly for calculation of radar range.  Now we wish to calculate what RCS we may encounter 90% of the time with that value if the target is randomly oriented.

    We can easily use MS Excel's Goalseek feature and PDF equation for Swerling case 1 target which we will arrive with the value of 0.17 sqm.  Which we can present (But dont forget the frequency information). Now what if the equation provides unrealistic result ? e.g Negative value or some unrealistic over unity value ? Then one have to use Histogram of the RCS data. The following is one example of it :

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8 - Page 9 Histog10

    One can see value of 0.0007 - 0.54 sqm as the most occurred value.  We can present this value.

    I did not use the squared RCS as suggested by Sukharevsky's book mainly to show the "raw" kind of distribution one can expect from a swerling-1 target.


    So in the end we have 3 kinds of Value we can present. Or maybe 4 if Instanteneous value is desired. This instanteous value is only useful for 1 angle tho. But by no means wrong.

    First is the Median value which suitable for quick looks
    Second is the PDF or CDF value which derived from Average of the RCS
    Third is from Histogram in case we cannot fit suitable distribution equation for our data
    Fourth is the instanteneous value.

    Again those values NEEDS context mainly frequency as RCS is function of frequency too.  This is my example quite sometime ago for Radar Cross Section estimates for Su-57 and F-35. I am using Median value to give the quick and easy number people can use. The angular section is 120 degrees of arc (-60 to 60 degrees) Horizontal and 65 to 110 degrees vertical Which i consider to be the most likely aspect that can be exploited along with my PC limitations back then.

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8 - Page 9 7rx1du8

    Notice the different value of RCS and in general the "looks" of the pattern as frequency changes.  

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8 - Page 9 2ENoKsw

    Scorpius, Arkanghelsk and Belisarius like this post

    TMA1
    TMA1


    Posts : 748
    Points : 752
    Join date : 2020-11-30

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8 - Page 9 Empty Re: Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8

    Post  TMA1 Thu Feb 17, 2022 5:43 am

    Hey stealthflanker I've always heard you discuss stuff in a fairly dry, academic sort of fashion but what do you personally think of the su-57? What are your views bro??
    Stealthflanker
    Stealthflanker


    Posts : 1325
    Points : 1405
    Join date : 2009-08-04
    Age : 34
    Location : Indonesia

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8 - Page 9 Empty Re: Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8

    Post  Stealthflanker Thu Feb 17, 2022 6:05 am

    TMA1 wrote:Hey stealthflanker I've always heard you discuss stuff in a fairly dry, academic sort of fashion but what do you personally think of the su-57? What are your views bro??

    She has her charm, sexually attractive. Which is the reason i always want to know her from inside out and accept her the way she was.

    Scorpius and TMA1 like this post

    Atmosphere
    Atmosphere


    Posts : 223
    Points : 225
    Join date : 2021-01-31

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8 - Page 9 Empty Re: Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8

    Post  Atmosphere Thu Feb 17, 2022 6:09 am

    A note about the IRST.
    Modeling its behaviour without RAM In context, especially for it, can be very misleading, as it is heavily implied that RAM does a great job attenuating its signature, as opposed to that massive EOTS in the belly of the LTS, which needed a faceted window.
    LMFS
    LMFS


    Posts : 4995
    Points : 4995
    Join date : 2018-03-03

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8 - Page 9 Empty Re: Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8

    Post  LMFS Fri Feb 18, 2022 12:14 am

    Atmosphere wrote:A note about the IRST.
    Modeling its behaviour without RAM In context, especially for it, can be very misleading, as it is heavily implied that RAM does a great job attenuating its signature, as opposed to that massive EOTS in the belly of the LTS, which needed a faceted window.

    The calculation method for RCS gives huge differences even for relatively simple shapes. Plus gaps. Plus internals. Plus materials, dimensions and depths. Plus pitot tubes, rivets and all the rest of weak scattering sources. Plus the elephant in the room, the RADAR antenna and the rest of the apertures. Such estimations need to be taken with a HUGE pinch of salt, not to detract from stealthflanker's effort. And then of course as he says, frequency, polarization, aspect and so on are never detailed.

    In summary, RCS values are simply too valuable pieces of information and they are never revealed or never in a way that allows to take tactical advantage from the disclosure. So it is one of the most stupid discussions of all the many and very stupid ones related to military technology.

    kvs, TMA1, Arkanghelsk and Belisarius like this post

    Atmosphere
    Atmosphere


    Posts : 223
    Points : 225
    Join date : 2021-01-31

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8 - Page 9 Empty Re: Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8

    Post  Atmosphere Fri Feb 18, 2022 2:48 am

    LMFS wrote:
    Atmosphere wrote:A note about the IRST.
    Modeling its behaviour without RAM In context, especially for it, can be very misleading, as it is heavily implied that RAM does a great job attenuating its signature, as opposed to that massive EOTS in the belly of the LTS, which needed a faceted window.

    The calculation method for RCS gives huge differences even for relatively simple shapes. Plus gaps. Plus internals. Plus materials, dimensions and depths. Plus pitot tubes, rivets and all the rest of weak scattering sources. Plus the elephant in the room, the RADAR antenna and the rest of the apertures. Such estimations need to be taken with a HUGE pinch of salt, not to detract from stealthflanker's effort. And then of course as he says, frequency, polarization, aspect and so on are never detailed.

    In summary, RCS values are simply too valuable pieces of information and they are never revealed or never in a way that allows to take tactical advantage from the disclosure. So it is one of the most stupid discussions of all the many and very stupid ones related to military technology.

    Exactly,
    The collective scattering from different bits is going to have huge impacts on the RCS even as a pattern rather than raw numbers. Hence discrediting the entire "segmenting the aircraft into mere 3 or 4 sectors" discussions you find on the internet. The claiming things such as VLO from the back or from the front is fundamentally wrong, as those areas themselves are brimming with variation.

    LMFS, TMA1 and Arkanghelsk like this post

    Hole
    Hole


    Posts : 7952
    Points : 7940
    Join date : 2018-03-24
    Age : 46
    Location : Scholzistan

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8 - Page 9 Empty Re: Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8

    Post  Hole Sun Feb 20, 2022 7:58 pm

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8 - Page 9 Fmdlf110

    GarryB, medo, George1, magnumcromagnon, thegopnik, lyle6, gc3762 and Lennox like this post

    Atmosphere
    Atmosphere


    Posts : 223
    Points : 225
    Join date : 2021-01-31

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8 - Page 9 Empty Re: Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8

    Post  Atmosphere Sun Feb 20, 2022 11:28 pm

    Hole wrote:Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8 - Page 9 Fmdlf110

    Important to notice:
    It is basically a tunnel inside a tunnel, which explains why the intake is indeed curved while looking straight to the outside view.
    This is once more, along with the IRST, another proof that all of the hubris around the tunnel intake was made by absolute clowns who could not read a patent.

    GarryB, kvs, Hole, Backman and bac112 like this post

    lyle6
    lyle6


    Posts : 1410
    Points : 1406
    Join date : 2020-09-14
    Location : Philippines

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8 - Page 9 Empty Re: Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8

    Post  lyle6 Mon Feb 21, 2022 4:33 am

    Hole wrote:Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8 - Page 9 Fmdlf110
    Holy shit, is this legal? I feel like chucking myself out of a window just by looking at it Twisted Evil

    GarryB and Hole like this post

    thegopnik
    thegopnik


    Posts : 1185
    Points : 1191
    Join date : 2017-09-20

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8 - Page 9 Empty Re: Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8

    Post  thegopnik Mon Feb 21, 2022 5:28 am

    oh no inb4 western stealth experts give their critics on this. Rolling Eyes
    Stealthflanker
    Stealthflanker


    Posts : 1325
    Points : 1405
    Join date : 2009-08-04
    Age : 34
    Location : Indonesia

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8 - Page 9 Empty Re: Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8

    Post  Stealthflanker Mon Feb 21, 2022 12:58 pm

    I did my shares on modeling the inlet and impact of the radar blocker and coatings and put it in the open. So far no real response or dispute from "western sources" They either not saying anything or just plain amazed that the radar blocker can do such amount of reduction. I am in several forums and discord servers about aviation where most members are US.

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8 - Page 9 X5KuTDA

    In fact there has been no real attempt in modeling them despite availability of commercial and powerful software like ANSYS HFSS.  The SBR+ Is one way to go for modelling cavities like inlet. I wonder why not many more people doing it. Which is unfortunate as visualization of RCS is an indispensable part in proper attempt of understanding the phenomenon.

    I also did the 360 degrees.. which kind of like 2 doritos combined as one.

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8 - Page 9 Aqj4U3O

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8 - Page 9 UESWHm3

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8 - Page 9 4p3XNvA

    dino00, kvs, lancelot and Belisarius like this post

    TMA1
    TMA1


    Posts : 748
    Points : 752
    Join date : 2020-11-30

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8 - Page 9 Empty Re: Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8

    Post  TMA1 Mon Feb 21, 2022 1:27 pm

    Nice work! Very Happy

    How do you think movements of the levcons effect stealth? What I have seen about the su-57's levcons is pretty fascinating. They are different from canards but do have some overlapping roles. Also they very good and regulating and modulating vortices and they can be stealthier than canards.

    Another thing. When you are modeling the ram layers how specific can you get with that? I think there is a vague idea of what kind of ram the su-57 uses. Are these programs you use powerful enough to take into account some of this? Also how ram is applied matters, but that might be a bit too much to add to the model.

    I also agree it is a sexy beast. To me one of the best things about it is it is a unique outlier of the fifth gen lineup. A completely different ideology in it's design and mission. And it doesnt hurt that it has lovely lines. As you can tell I am a fanboi, but I really think it is underrated by very many people.

    GarryB likes this post

    Atmosphere
    Atmosphere


    Posts : 223
    Points : 225
    Join date : 2021-01-31

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8 - Page 9 Empty Re: Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8

    Post  Atmosphere Mon Feb 21, 2022 6:54 pm

    lyle6 wrote:
    Hole wrote:Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8 - Page 9 Fmdlf110
    Holy shit, is this legal? I feel like chucking myself out of a window just by looking at it Twisted Evil

    Of course, everything about this design points towards non-compromise.
    It should also be factored that the Su-57's stealth includes the fact that cruise could be trimmed with TVC, thus not relying on surface actuators, these increase the RCS of an aircraft pretty much higher than any minute detail found on aircraft, in the same caliber as pitot tubes or so.
    That is an extremely significant detail. The entire point of things like B2 and Okhotnik is the removal of the tail for RCS Reduction. I don't know why this detail is always left.

    GarryB, George1 and Hole like this post

    GarryB
    GarryB


    Posts : 34830
    Points : 35348
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8 - Page 9 Empty Re: Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8

    Post  GarryB Tue Feb 22, 2022 2:38 am

    That is an extremely significant detail. The entire point of things like B2 and Okhotnik is the removal of the tail for RCS Reduction. I don't know why this detail is always left.

    The main key clue is that the B-2 and S-70 are not ever engaged in dogfighting or extreme manouvering of any kind.

    Vertical tails are useful for stability and normal flight control.

    Atmosphere and bac112 like this post


    Sponsored content


    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8 - Page 9 Empty Re: Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Thu Dec 01, 2022 7:09 am