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    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8

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    Lennox


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    Post  Lennox Sat Jan 22, 2022 9:16 pm

    Arkanghelsk wrote:

    No doubt they also saw on NEBO that Su57 in configuration is not visible on radar.

    Same old dilemma. Would this mean that the radar is weak/bad, or the Su-57's VLO design is good scratch scratch
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    Post  GarryB Sun Jan 23, 2022 2:27 am

    The latter picture has clear IR seeker.

    Yes, the problem is that this missile is a cold war design that was started not long after the R-73 entered widespread service and the company that was developing it is now in the Ukraine.

    To the best of my knowledge they want a mix of short range weapons, where a very short range missile will be 9M100 based that has anti missile self defence capabilities that is also used on land and at sea for short range defence from enemy standoff weapons and munitions... in the naval version may have ARH as well as IIR homing options for sea mist and sea fog and other weather conditions not suited to IR guidance... like tropical hot or desert hot conditions where thermals are not so good for seeing humans with body temperature of 37-38 degrees in air temperatures of 40 degrees or higher... thermals are not so useful or in monsoon levels of rain where IIR visibility is not so good where ARH works just fine.

    They also want a longer ranged IR guided weapon... so in a sense a bit like the AA-2 and AA-8 combination that was later replaced with an AA-8 and AA-11 combination... but AA-11 was so good it tended to replace both.

    Don't underestimate AIM-9X.

    Americans were shocked with R-73 and AIM-9X development came as a result of that shock.
    The X model is pretty good missile.
    This is the reason why new RVV-MD development came to be.

    When the Americans found out actually how good the R-73 they actually dropped out of the ASRAAM programme and focussed on the AMRAAM programme.

    There was an agreement that America would make the new BVR missile... AMRAAM, and the UK would make the new WVR missile... ASRAAM and everyone in HATO would buy both. America... after experience with East German MiG-29s and R-73s realised that WVR combat was suicide... even if you killed him, as long as he had the chance to launch a missile at you then there was a very good chance he would kill you too. In practise he mostly just killed you because he didn't have to manouver to get onto your tail he could just launch and it got you. This was a combination of field of view of the missile seeker, the high target tracking rate of the seeker and the thrust vectoring rocket motor that allowed it to turn off the launch rail and chase anything even if its control surfaces and stabiliser surfaces stalled it could keep its nose pointed at you and locked.

    The AIM-9X is not a terrible missile but it is a very old missile that has been through a lot of upgrades.

    The RVV-MD is a generational upgrade for an aging missile... the Soviet Sidewinder has been supplemented (AA8) and replaced (AA-11) already and now they are further upgrading their WVR missile for internal weapon bay carriage and launch.

    New Russian SRAAM needs to be more compact to be internally carried and it needs new seeker to have better ECCM capabilities.

    It is likely they will have two short range air to air missiles in addition of course to MANPADS designs. The smaller of the two will be carried as a self defence weapon by bombers too.

    What Americans clearly ignored is Russian DIRCM capabilities.
    They thought that since they have AIM-9X their F-35 does not have to be a outstanding dogfighting plane.

    They realised with modern capable WVR missiles that dogfighting was suicide and that launching from a distance is safer... which is very true... short range missiles seem to be rather more capable than BVR missiles in real combat.

    Thats where they are wrong and proof of that is each modern plane still has the good old cannon.

    New Russian stealth aircraft are all designed to turn and fight... guided missiles can be defeated and sometimes it comes down to guns...

    No doubt they also saw on NEBO that Su57 in configuration is not visible on radar.

    Invisible is too expensive to achieve and maintain, and agaisnt certain type of sensors is not achievable anyway... so all that extra money is wasted.

    Some level of stealth to delay detection and make some locks for small radars like those on missiles easier to break is valuable and worth extra money.

    Same old dilemma. Would this mean that the radar is weak/bad, or the Su-57's VLO design is good

    No dilemma at all.... NEBO operates in three very different radar frequency ranges and is specifically designed to detect and track aircraft optimised for Ku and Ka band frequency stealth aircraft.

    The main difference is that the wing mounted L band AESAs on the Su-57 probably would have detect NEBO scanning for it, while the F-35 would have no idea the NEBO was there.

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    tanino


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    Post  tanino Thu Feb 03, 2022 11:47 am

    Guys, there are photos #52 in Novosibirsk, but I can not at the moment to link

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    Post  AMCXXL Thu Feb 03, 2022 12:12 pm

    Board numbers Nº02 and Nº52. This are really the two first machines for the units of VKS

    Obviously, 02 red for Akhtubinsk (the GLITs emblem is visible).
    52 maybe for Lipetsk
    Also interesting is the number RF-81775 was briefly used in early 2018 on "511" prototype for a flight to Syria.


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    Post  Isos Thu Feb 03, 2022 1:34 pm

    Look even better with engines covered.
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    Post  medo Thu Feb 03, 2022 2:33 pm

    Are this two b/n 02 and 52 the third and the fourth Su-57 for 2021? So now RuAF have 5 serial Su-57 with b/n 01, 51, 52, 02 and 52?
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    Post  Hole Thu Feb 03, 2022 3:53 pm

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8 - Page 8 Fkrbur10
    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8 - Page 8 Fkrbwo10
    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8 - Page 8 Fksqag10

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    Post  Hole Thu Feb 03, 2022 3:56 pm

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8 - Page 8 Fksqlp10

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    Post  gmsmith1985 Thu Feb 03, 2022 4:10 pm

    I think you are correct

    medo wrote:Are this two b/n 02 and 52 the third and the fourth Su-57 for 2021? So now RuAF have 5 serial Su-57 with b/n 01, 51, 52, 02 and 52?
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    Post  Atmosphere Thu Feb 03, 2022 5:58 pm

    KS-V is noticeably different.
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    Post  TMA1 Thu Feb 03, 2022 11:21 pm

    Never seen such a dynamic array of lifting surfaces. It is so damn lovely. No other fifth gen compares.

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    Post  magnumcromagnon Fri Feb 04, 2022 12:06 am

    TMA1 wrote:Never seen such a dynamic array of lifting surfaces. It is so damn lovely. No other fifth gen compares.
    Like fighter jet origami.

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    Post  LMFS Fri Feb 04, 2022 3:46 am

    TMA1 wrote:Never seen such a dynamic array of lifting surfaces. It is so damn lovely. No other fifth gen compares.

    It is so 4.5th gen isn't it... Laughing clown

    Jokes apart, this is a genuine triplane configuration, tried and tested by Sukhoi for several decades. It is the most complex yet most capable configuration for maneuverability, lift optimization, trimming etc., of course more complex, heavy and expensive than the others. To me is a clear indication of the "no compromise" attitude of Sukhoi with the performance goals of the PAK-FA design, unlike the much simpler approach they show with the LTS, which does not have canards nor LEVCONS and does not even have proper h-stabs.

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    Post  TMA1 Fri Feb 04, 2022 4:15 am

    LMFS wrote:
    TMA1 wrote:Never seen such a dynamic array of lifting surfaces. It is so damn lovely. No other fifth gen compares.

    It is so 4.5th gen isn't it... Laughing clown

    Jokes apart, this is a genuine triplane configuration, tried and tested by Sukhoi for several decades. It is the most complex yet most capable configuration for maneuverability, lift optimization, trimming etc., of course more complex, heavy and expensive than the others. To me is a clear indication of the "no compromise" attitude of Sukhoi with the performance goals of the PAK-FA design, unlike the much simpler approach they show with the LTS, which does not have canards nor LEVCONS and does not even have proper h-stabs.

    Agreed. It is sad so many in the west have been biased towards western design ideology. The f35 is turning into a great fighter in spite of itself and its McNamara tier commonality bullshit. That said there is no other country with such a completely unique fighting doctrine as Russia. Everyone else has pretty much followed western patterns or variants of it. The only one truly different is Russia. Probably why I love Russian weapons tech and old school American weapons techm

    I love the spirit of sukhoi, and the new checkmate is so lean and mean. It truly has the capability to (imo) take up the mantle of the f16 and mig21.

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    Post  AMCXXL Fri Feb 04, 2022 4:55 am

    gmsmith1985 wrote:I think you are correct

    medo wrote:Are this two b/n 02 and 52 the third and the fourth Su-57 for 2021? So now RuAF have 5 serial Su-57 with b/n 01, 51, 52, 02 and 52?

    Why ?

    The numbers could have been changed as they are not suitable for the air units that will receive them.
    The red Nº02 appears to be the previous blue Nº52

    Air Force units based in Lipetsk and Akhtubisnk , both use RED tail numbers.
    The only planes that have been seen in transit to West through Novosibirsk are the red Nº02 and the red Nº52 which are n/s 52001 and 52002 respectively

    In any case, we will have to wait for more information, it will not be surprising that one of the most modern prototypes is delivered as a plane for state tests to replace the one that crashed in December 2019

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8 - Page 8 Su-57_10
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    Post  LMFS Fri Feb 04, 2022 5:15 am

    @AMCXXL

    Good detailed view, but it seems to me that the pixelated camo paintings on those three are slightly different, even between 02 red and 52 blue they are not exactly the same, or maybe it is simply that the frame of the EO aperture was missing in the 52 blue...
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    Post  Hole Fri Feb 04, 2022 6:28 am

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8 - Page 8 30037110
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    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8 - Page 8 30037310

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    Post  medo Fri Feb 04, 2022 7:13 am

    AMCXXL wrote:
    gmsmith1985 wrote:I think you are correct

    medo wrote:Are this two b/n 02 and 52 the third and the fourth Su-57 for 2021? So now RuAF have 5 serial Su-57 with b/n 01, 51, 52, 02 and 52?

    Why ?

    The numbers could have been changed as they are not suitable for the air units that will receive them.
    The red Nº02 appears to be the previous blue Nº52

    Air Force units based in Lipetsk and Akhtubisnk , both use RED tail numbers.
    The only planes that have been seen in transit to West through Novosibirsk are the red Nº02 and the red Nº52 which are n/s 52001 and 52002 respectively

    In any case, we will have to wait for more information, it will not be surprising that one of the most modern prototypes is delivered as a plane for state tests to replace the one that crashed in December 2019

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8 - Page 8 Su-57_10

    B/n red 02 is not the same as b/n blue 52. By your own picture they have different shape of window for side looking MAWS sensor.

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    Post  George1 Fri Feb 04, 2022 7:52 am

    Novosibirsk spotters captured two new fifth-generation Su-57 fighters, which made an intermediate landing at Novosibirsk Tolmachevo airport on February 3, 2022, while transferring to their bases in the European part of Russia. Judging by these photographs, two Yu.A. Gagarin (KnAAZ, a branch of PJSC "Company" Sukhoi "as part of the UAC) new Su-57 fighters have red tail numbers "02" and "52".

    The Su-57 aircraft with tail number "02 red" has not been "lit up" before. This machine bears on board the emblem of the 929th State Flight Test Center named after V.P. Chkalov of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation in Akhtubinsk (Astrakhan Region), and, apparently, is intended for this unit. Recall that the first serial Su-57 fighter (T-50S-2 aircraft, serial number 51002) produced by KnAAZ, actually received at the end of January 2021 by the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, received tail number "01" (originally blue), and, according to known data, was also transferred to the 929th GLITs in Akhtubinsk.

    The second Su-57 aircraft, now filmed in Novosibirsk, has tail number "52 red" and previously flashed in a KnAAZ promotional video, but with tail number "52" in blue. Interestingly, this aircraft in Novosibirsk carries the registration number RF-81775 on its keels. Previously, this registration number RF-81775 was briefly used during the deployment to Syria in early 2018 on the last, tenth flight prototype of the PAK FA - the T-50-11 aircraft with tail number "511".

    It can be assumed that the new Su-57 with tail number "52 red" may enter the 4th Order of Lenin of the Red Banner Center for military testing and training of personnel of the VKS named after V.P. Chkalov of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation at the Lipetsk airfield.

    As our blog has already reported, at the end of 2021, KnAAZ will thushanded over to the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation two serial Su-57 fighters, which corresponded to the planned task of the plant. These two Su-57 aircraft transferred to the Russian Aerospace Forces, presumably, have serial numbers 52201 (T-50S-3) and 52202 (T-50S-4), and are the third and fourth production Su-57s built by KnAAZ.

    Recall that in August 2018, at the International Military-Technical Forum "Army-2018", the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation and PJSC "Company" Sukhoi "signed a contractfor the supply to the Armed Forces of the first two production fighters of the fifth generation Su-57 (in the guise of T-50S - T-50S-1 and T-50S-2 sides) with engines of the "first stage" ("product 117"). The terms of the contract were 2018-2020, with the delivery of one aircraft in 2019 and 2020. In June 2019, at the Army-2019 International Military-Technical Forum, the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation and PJSC Sukhoi Company signed a contract for the supply of a total of 76 serial fifth-generation Su-57 fighters to the Armed Forces (including the first two contracted in 2018 of the aircraft).

    The first serial Su-57 aircraft (T-50S-1 aircraft, serial number 51001, tail number "01 blue"), built at KnAAZ, made its first flight in Komsomolsk-on-Amur in early December 2019 and was planned to be transferred to the Ministry of Defense On December 27, but on December 24, 2019, at the final stage of factory testing , it crashed as a result of an accident, due, presumably, to a failure in the aircraft control system.

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/4479696.html

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    Post  Hole Fri Feb 04, 2022 3:14 pm

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    Post  limb Fri Feb 04, 2022 10:30 pm

    Yes, finally more than 1 serial Su-57!

    Now that they're serial, does that mean that it's operating the R-77M, the R-37M and the ram jet powered R-77 derivative?

    I heard that the byelka radar was planned to have up to 1800 T/R modules in serial aircraft. Is this possible?

    Also can the Su-57 and Su-35 provide midvourse guidance to active radar missiles through readings of their IRST and L-bamd radars?

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    Post  PeregrineFalcon Sat Feb 05, 2022 7:30 am

    limb wrote:Yes, finally more than 1 serial Su-57!

    Now that they're serial, does that mean that it's operating the R-77M, the R-37M and the ram jet powered  R-77 derivative?

    I heard that the byelka radar was planned to have up to 1800 T/R modules in serial aircraft. Is this possible?

    Also can the Su-57 and Su-35 provide midvourse guidance to active radar missiles through readings of their IRST and L-bamd radars?

    https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/41932/f-15-uses-new-infrared-pod-to-shoot-down-target-f-16-with-aim-120-missile

    It is technically feasible, and to some degree it was done earlier with the Mig-31.

    https://theaviationgeekclub.com/foxhound-vs-blackbird-former-mig-31-pilot-explains-how-to-intercept-and-shoot-down-an-sr-71-mach-3-spy-plane/


    Last edited by PeregrineFalcon on Sat Feb 05, 2022 7:35 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  Hole Sat Feb 05, 2022 7:32 am

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    Post  Isos Sat Feb 05, 2022 7:38 am

    limb wrote:Yes, finally more than 1 serial Su-57!

    Now that they're serial, does that mean that it's operating the R-77M, the R-37M and the ram jet powered  R-77 derivative?

    I heard that the byelka radar was planned to have up to 1800 T/R modules in serial aircraft. Is this possible?

    Also can the Su-57 and Su-35 provide midvourse guidance to active radar missiles through readings of their IRST and L-bamd radars?

    R-37M is already in service with the su-35 and mig-31BM. Su-57 can carry it too.

    R-77M was shown on th it and it seemed they have two versions. IMO it's in the fibal processes of testing.

    Radar is big as in all sukhois. Since smaller radars can carry 1500 t/r then byelka can carry more.

    Last question is technically possible but probably secret. That's a nice tool against stealthy aircraft. Maybe it's the reason why US wabt to instal an IRST on their f-22.
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    Post  Atmosphere Sat Feb 05, 2022 12:23 pm

    Byelka most certainly has more than the 1500 units of the prototype by now, since the modules are way smaller.
    You can send miscourse guidance using IRST because there's sensor fusion. The IRST gives data to the radar on target location and the radar is simply used as a data link for the missile.
    For range finding, ill have people note that new generation lasers will be way longer ranged, ols35 is 3 times longer in laser range than the previous generation, so you can guess how long OLS50M would be, the one that was made under much easier times in russia (economy, availability of element base).

    Range is also passively obtained either from fusing with Lband radars or via triangulation with other fighters or via a very quick thin impulse from X Band radars.

    These systems are not viewed as individual systems, they all share data in one space.

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