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    VKS Russian Aerospace Forces: News #2

    GunshipDemocracy
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Fri Sep 03, 2021 2:19 am

    Tsavo Lion wrote:Shoigu aircraft falling  
    https://www.apn.ru/index.php?newsid=40256


    Very weak logic and no real world data to support own thesis. On top the title as taken from The Sun or Das Bild level newspapers :-)
    You really must spend day to look for such niche "experts" dont you?

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Fri Sep 03, 2021 5:40 am

    Russia should make one big cental aerospace museum to store all that historic stuff

    It's all over the place now, it needs one focal point

    And it should be enclosed

    I like the idea but I think FP is right too... having sites around the place attract tourists to small places people might not otherwise go, so maybe set up a centralised organisation for an aerospace museum that has branches throughout the country in places of significance where this stuff can be saved and people working to save this stuff get support and assistance and the work can be coordinated and funding assistance where needed can be applied for... it could be linked to those patriot parks they have.

    Some could be big and some could be smaller.

    Over time they could organise other things like having something nearby that might appeal more to women so the women can go to that and the men can look at the stuff they are interested, or they can include stuff that has a broader appeal in the places themselves so people with little interest can have fun too.

    If it was sabotage then where's the culprit?

    You mean if it was a mistake where is the culprit. A saboteur is likely to hide evidence that points to them and try to hide their crime making it less likely they are caught.

    Not being able to track him down is again incompetence so we are back to main problem: incompetence

    Not being able to track him down suggests he might have had help, or just was effective in covering his own tracks.

    Shoigu aircraft falling

    I am not opening your links, so you can describe what it is about and we can talk about it, or you are just wasting your own time.

    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Fri Sep 03, 2021 6:02 am

    No, there r certain sites I go to regularly.
    A fish usually rots from the head down; I don't see any fault in his conclusions.
    Thx for ur concern, but there r others who do open my links.
    Isos
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    Post  Isos Fri Sep 03, 2021 10:24 am

    Thx for ur concern, but there r others who do open my links.

    Nope.

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    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible Fri Sep 03, 2021 5:11 pm

    Isos wrote:
    Thx for ur concern, but there r others who do open my links.

    Nope.

    People laugh at Tsavo and his links. Mostly because they represent him, a moron.

    I can easily refute the claims.

    Look at total crashes of Jets per country, total amount of planes and come back to us.

    You will see Russia doesn't have much of a problem. It is one of the biggest countries for military flights. Issues bound to happen. See US and their crash rates as example

    But Tsavo is too stupid to understand that

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    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Fri Sep 03, 2021 8:56 pm

    With right leadership & prevention measures, there could & should be less crashes- & that's the bottom line.
    So far this year, 52 civ. & mil. people died there in accidents.
    The civil aviation is dual use & its safe operation is an asset to RF security.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sat Sep 04, 2021 5:07 am

    I don't see any fault in his conclusions.

    I don't see any of his reasoning or his conclusions... you could describe them... or there is nothing to discuss.

    With right leadership & prevention measures, there could & should be less crashes- & that's the bottom line.

    Are you joking?

    The leadership of a country has nothing to do with flight accidents or car accidents or accidents with fire arms... why don't you blame the world increase in cancer on Putin too... except it is western companies pumping out shit like Glyphosate that is actually the problem there and of course the snack food industry that puts sugar and fat in everything.

    So far this year, 52 civ. & mil. people died there in accidents.

    Over 40,000 Americans died in car crashes too... must be Bidens fault I guess... that is almost as many as died in the war in Vietnam that took 10 years or more... and how many are dying because of over the counter prescription medication... a hell of a lot more than 40K... but the US government does nothing.... bastards.

    The civil aviation is dual use & its safe operation is an asset to RF security.

    So it is not Putins interests that someone supposed to be getting good wages is not getting good wages, but plane crashes is his problem?

    Like I said... I hope you are joking.

    Enormous effort is going in to aircraft safety... new systems at airports with lasers to detect wind shear and weather features etc etc...

    They investigate accidents and incidents and try to learn and get better... the fact that you think it is just up to Putin and that he should be able to pass laws to prevent air accidents is quite frankly insulting... to our intelligence.

    BTW I watched the promo for the new Top Gun movie and with Tom Cruise flying low and fast through mountains... all I could think of was when that Intruder was flying low and broke the cables on that cable car and murdered 70 or so people... I say murdered because the pilots filmed the flight but destroyed the tape, so it was clearly a crime and they clearly destroyed evidence... which US president was at fault that day?

    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Sat Sep 04, 2021 5:32 am

    [quote="GarryB"]
    I don't see any fault in his conclusions.
    I don't see any of his reasoning or his conclusions... you could describe them... or there is nothing to discuss.
    open the link, google translate- I'm not an interpreter-commentator here.

    With right leadership & prevention measures, there could & should be less crashes- & that's the bottom line.
    The leadership of a country has nothing to do with flight accidents or car accidents or accidents with fire arms...
    below it is the leadership of related industry & mil. commands & units were accidents taken place- that's the 1 was referring to.
    So far this year, 52 civ. & mil. people died there in accidents.
    Over 40,000 Americans died in car crashes too... must be Bidens fault I guess... that is almost as many as died in the war in Vietnam that took 10 years or more... and how many are dying because of over the counter prescription medication... a hell of a lot more than 40K... but the US government does nothing.... bastards.
    so u r suggesting the Russians have nothing to worry about as long as their own accident rate is not above those statistics?
    The civil aviation is dual use & its safe operation is an asset to RF security.
    So it is not Putins interests that someone supposed to be getting good wages is not getting good wages, but plane crashes is his problem?
    I could care less about him; certainly crashes r caused by multiple factors, incl. problems at the top.

    the fact that you think it is just up to Putin and that he should be able to pass laws to prevent air accidents is quite frankly insulting... to our intelligence.
    if u've read the article, u wouldn't be assuming that I think any of the above.

    when that Intruder was flying low and broke the cables on that cable car and murdered 70 or so people... I say murdered because the pilots filmed the flight but destroyed the tape, so it was clearly a crime and they clearly destroyed evidence...  which US president was at fault that day?
    human nature & their culture was at fault.
    GunshipDemocracy
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Sat Sep 04, 2021 4:39 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    I don't see any fault in his conclusions.

    I don't see any of his reasoning or his conclusions... you could describe them... or there is nothing to discuss.




    The author on link was "national democrat" form Russia meaning "Putin is soft and mediocre we need a stronger one" and IMHO was using simple stats to prove assumed thesis and not drawing any concussions from data.


    There are more accidents because there is by order of magnitude more flight hours in Russian AF under Shoygu. There are new models and heavily reworked/upgrades ones.

    BTW so far there were 2 accidents with Su-57? and how many F-22 and F-35? looks like Us fighters are not only poorly designed but also maintained Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sun Sep 05, 2021 6:51 am

    open the link, google translate- I'm not an interpreter-commentator here.

    It is not a translation problem, it is me not wanting to open such a link.

    so u r suggesting the Russians have nothing to worry about as long as their own accident rate is not above those statistics?

    No, I am suggesting they do what they have always done... have open investigations to learn the actual cause of the crashes that is based on evidence and not some Internet based lynch mob, that finds the causes and then endeavours to find solutions and corrections that will either reduce or preferably eliminate the chance of the same problem happening again.

    I could care less about him; certainly crashes r caused by multiple factors, incl. problems at the top.

    Unless Putin sits at his desk with voodoo dolls of pilots and pokes pins in them when they are known to be flying their planes, there are not problems at the top causing crashes... except if you count Polish leaders demanding pilots land planes in bad conditions where air traffic controllers have told them not to try.

    But I believe those particular politicians have already paid a price for that... along with everyone else on that plane.

    if u've read the article, u wouldn't be assuming that I think any of the above.

    Already told you I don't read your linked articles... I don't have that much time to read that much rubbish.

    human nature & their culture was at fault.

    Filming the flight likely didn't cause the crash, but destroying evidence that could have been of use in working out what actually went wrong... they should have automatically gotten the highest penalty for doing that, it shows they only cared about themselves and nothing for the victims of their crime... the US military is to blame and the US government is also to blame for not holding them to account... but then it seems when they think they are the worlds police then they can shoot a few darkies or in this case foreigners and it is OK...

    BTW so far there were 2 accidents with Su-57? and how many F-22 and F-35? looks like Us fighters are not only poorly designed but also maintained

    Air Accidents happen... the only truly effective way to stop them is to stop flying...

    It is easy enough to fit ejection seats to all aircraft, but that would raise the cost of flying anywhere to the point where no one would fly so you still save lives but the solution is worse than the cure.

    Everyone takes a bit of a risk in life every day... it seems when I go shopping at the supermarket there is a change there might be a nutter with a knife and a chip on their shoulder wanting to kill some evil white people who took them and their families in for ISIS...

    Should I blame the prime minister? It was hardly Horse Faces problem.

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    Russian_Patriot_
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    Post  Russian_Patriot_ Fri Sep 10, 2021 4:33 pm

    Archangel Michael on board a Russian fighter jet
    VKS Russian Aerospace Forces: News #2 - Page 23 Lhoqmx10

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sat Sep 11, 2021 11:04 am

    open the link, google translate- I'm not an interpreter-commentator here.

    When you post links here you are making them part of a conversation it is up to you to translate what they are saying or their basic points for the conversation here.

    You create a responsibility when you post the links... it is OK if you can't be bothered.... that is fine... but do not post links without explaination... otherwise it will be considered SPAM.

    below it is the leadership of related industry & mil. commands & units were accidents taken place- that's the 1 was referring to.

    The leadership could only be responsible for deaths if it was not enforcing safety rules and letting tired or drunk pilots fly unsafe aircraft... we wont know what the problems were till we get the results of the investigations.

    so u r suggesting the Russians have nothing to worry about as long as their own accident rate is not above those statistics?

    There are a lot of factors to consider, like flying hours and number of flights... if flying hours have tripled and the number of flights has gone up by 100 times but the number of fatal incidents is the same as previous years, though the death toll might be artificially high by a large transport with a lot of people happening to crash and therefore skewing the numbers up, then I would say there is not a huge problem, though every incident needs to be investigated and solutions found where appropriate.

    I could care less about him; certainly crashes r caused by multiple factors, incl. problems at the top.

    Do you understand how silly you sound... I don't care about Putin but if he has a bad day then people crash planes and die... or do they die when he has a good day?

    if u've read the article, u wouldn't be assuming that I think any of the above.

    Which is why it is important to discuss things yourself instead of posting other peoples ideas and thoughts.

    human nature & their culture was at fault.

    Their culture meant there was no fault... how dare those people use that cable to damage that American plane... those pilots were put at risk by those people... pilots risking their lives every day to keep the entire western world safe from Komunism. Rolling Eyes



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    Post  lancelot Sun Sep 12, 2021 7:07 am

    Apples and oranges. Like other people said the article compares current operations at a much higher tempo to earlier years.
    Then there are facts like comparing people with different times in power and acting as if this is the same (deaths under one leader as a metric).
    Instead of using deaths per year per mile traveled or trip taken.

    We also have more crashes with prototypes of new aircraft. Well you don't have prototype crashes if you don't develop new aircraft.
    Or at least whole new aircraft. The list continues.

    Hopefully there are proper procedures in place to ensure similar crashes don't happen again or are mitigated.

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