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    VKS Russian Aerospace Forces: News #2

    d_taddei2
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    Post  d_taddei2 Fri Jun 05, 2020 1:47 am

    any news on Ka-60, Mi-38, and TVS 2DTS (An-2 replacement) havent heard anything for ages, i believe Mi-38 is a lot further along than the Ka-60
    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Sat Jun 06, 2020 11:34 pm

    Russia has patented a new way to launch missiles from aircraft

    VKS Russian Aerospace Forces: News #2 - Page 19 1591420590_1591420641

    In the future, Russian combat aircraft may receive vertical launchers for missiles, the launch of which will be carried out in mortar shells. A patent for the corresponding invention is published in the database of the Federal Institute of Industrial Property (FIPS).

    The mortar launch of guided aircraft missiles, anti-missiles and other ammunition from vertical launchers was offered by specialists of Design Bureau Fakel named after Grushin and NPP Radar MMS. According to the inventors, this method of firing is safer and allows you to launch missiles even from an airplane standing on the ground.

    The method of vertical air launch of missiles includes the vertical launch of a rocket from a launch container placed on an air carrier

    - TASS quotes an extract from the patent.

    Launching missiles from a vertical launcher in a mortar or “cold start” assumes that the missile will be ejected from the launcher without turning on the engine, i.e. with the help of some kind of knockout charge. The rocket starts its engines already at a safe distance from the carrier. To compensate for pressure from the oncoming air flow, the authors propose the use of stabilization engines in the bow of the rockets.

    Note that the “cold start” is well known and widely used in Russian weapons, for example, to launch ICBMs, in some anti-aircraft missile systems, etc. The authors of the invention opposed their method of launching missiles from the vertical launchers of an aircraft, which the Americans considered unsafe. Developers from the United States offered a "hot" start when the rocket engine turned on even in the launch container.

    https://topwar.ru/171889-v-rossii-zapatentovali-novyj-sposob-zapuska-raket-s-samoletov.html
    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:14 am

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    Russia has patented a new way to launch missiles from aircraft

    VKS Russian Aerospace Forces: News #2 - Page 19 1591420590_1591420641

    In the future, Russian combat aircraft may receive vertical launchers for missiles, the launch of which will be carried out in mortar shells. A patent for the corresponding invention is published in the database of the Federal Institute of Industrial Property (FIPS).

    The mortar launch of guided aircraft missiles, anti-missiles and other ammunition from vertical launchers was offered by specialists of Design Bureau Fakel named after Grushin and NPP Radar MMS. According to the inventors, this method of firing is safer and allows you to launch missiles even from an airplane standing on the ground.

    The method of vertical air launch of missiles includes the vertical launch of a rocket from a launch container placed on an air carrier

    - TASS quotes an extract from the patent.

    Launching missiles from a vertical launcher in a mortar or “cold start” assumes that the missile will be ejected from the launcher without turning on the engine, i.e. with the help of some kind of knockout charge. The rocket starts its engines already at a safe distance from the carrier. To compensate for pressure from the oncoming air flow, the authors propose the use of stabilization engines in the bow of the rockets.

    Note that the “cold start” is well known and widely used in Russian weapons, for example, to launch ICBMs, in some anti-aircraft missile systems, etc. The authors of the invention opposed their method of launching missiles from the vertical launchers of an aircraft, which the Americans considered unsafe. Developers from the United States offered a "hot" start when the rocket engine turned on even in the launch container.

    https://topwar.ru/171889-v-rossii-zapatentovali-novyj-sposob-zapuska-raket-s-samoletov.html

    Air Launch: How Invented a New Way to Launch Missiles from Aircraft

    The mortar launch into space is not a forgotten, but also an unrealized idea. Perhaps everything will change.

    VKS Russian Aerospace Forces: News #2 - Page 19 S1_d_850

    An event has happened that is rare enough for our country. A patent was issued for launching missiles from aircraft using vertical launchers. It was received by developers from the Engineering Fakel Design Bureau named after Academician Grushin and NPP Radar Mms. A message about this is contained on the website of the Federal Institute of Industrial Property (FIPS). Our engineers have many breakthrough inventions. But they are very rarely patented.

    The description of the invention says that the method of vertical air launch of missiles includes a vertical launch from a launch container placed on an air carrier. In this way, it will be possible to launch guided missiles, anti-missiles and ballistic missiles.

    Such a launch is sometimes called a "mortar." The peculiarity is that the rocket propulsion engine does not turn on in the launcher, but later, when the rocket moves to a safe distance from the aircraft. The initial launch of the rocket and its ejection from the launcher is carried out, for example, using a pneumatic balloon or a powder pressure accumulator.

    Everything is fine, but there is nothing special to enjoy. A paper patent was received for what the domestic "Ilona Masks" tried to practically implement at the beginning of this century, that is, almost twenty years ago. It was an Air Launch project. And it is worth remembering.

    In a long-standing project, by the way, actively supported by the then existing Russian Aerospace Agency, it was envisaged to launch a launch vehicle with satellites on board from a height of 10-11 km from an air launch platform. As a carrier aircraft, it was proposed to use a modification of the heaviest serial transport aircraft An-124-100 Ruslan.

    To implement the project, the An-124-100, which was in a dead state, was purchased from the Air Force. Only to clean the fuselage from bird droppings required several heavy trucks. The private company that took the plane pledged at its own expense to restore the huge airliner to working condition, and then on its basis to carry out the whole complex of experimental and test work for the implementation of an air launch. This required money. They began to earn on the transportation of bulky goods. At the same time, detailed calculations were carried out on a promising rocket and work to attract investors.

    In the interim, the Polet launch vehicle was created, in which it was supposed to use environmentally friendly components of rocket fuel “liquid oxygen + kerosene”.

    This missile was just supposed to be dropped from Ruslan in a container from which it would launch "in a mortar". One of the most difficult tasks is to simultaneously land a cargo with a mass comparable to an airplane. They decided it. It was proved that it is quite possible and safe, under a certain flight mode, to drop in the launch zone a launch vehicle weighing 100 tons or more within the carrying capacity of the An-124-100 carrier aircraft.

    It was proved that the Launch vehicle, launched in an air launch mode, is capable of launching satellites weighing up to 3.5 tons into low polar orbits, up to 4.5 tons into low equatorial orbits, and up to 0.85 tons into orbits of navigation systems GLONASS and Galileo, up to 0.8 tons per geostationary orbit.

    When equipping geostationary satellites with an apogee propulsion system, which ensures the satellite’s transition from a geo-transitional orbit to a geostationary one, the “Launch” launch vehicle made it possible to launch satellites weighing up to 1 ton into geostationary orbit. To the Moon and on the flight paths, the Air Start system was supposed to launch spacecraft weighing 1 ... 1.2 tons.

    It is worth repeating that all this was calculated in detail and partially tested almost twenty years ago. Even Elon Musk himself does not dream about this today.

    Naturally, the Russian project aroused interest abroad. Since it was most advantageous to launch missiles using the technology of air launch from the equator, Indonesia even proposed using one of its equatorial islands for these purposes. Provided that she will enter the project.

    A real spaceport was supposed to be built at the Frans Kaisiepo airdrome (Biak Island). Work was supposed to go with joint Russian-Indonesian funding. An interstate agreement was even signed.

    But then the then leadership of the Air Force recalled that the An-124-100, which was completely restored at the expense of a private investor, formally remained in their ownership. How so? The plane flies, brings profit to someone, and the Air Force commander aside. That commander in chief did not even remember about the project "Air Launch", which in its implementation went to the finish line. But he made every effort to pick up Ruslan and actually destroy one of the most promising space projects in Russia. It was funded, it is worth repeating, by an individual. The Russian Ilon Mask did not take place - the Air Force was not allowed, or rather, their commander in chief, whose last name does not make sense.

    I would like to believe that the Fakel Machine-Building Design Bureau and the Radar Mms patented their invention will be able to bring the paper document to iron. On the other hand, there is a question.

    For a number of technical and technological solutions for the Air Launch project, developed in a preliminary design and confirmed by modeling, 24 patents were received in six countries of the world that possess rocket technologies (USA, Ukraine, France, Germany, Great Britain, Russia). Surely the authors of that project did not begin to patent one of their main achievements - the mortar launch technology?

    https://rg.ru/2020/06/06/vozdushnyj-start-kak-izobretali-novyj-sposob-zapuska-raket-s-samoletov.html
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    Post  GarryB Mon Jun 08, 2020 9:38 am

    any news on Ka-60, Mi-38, and TVS 2DTS (An-2 replacement) havent heard anything for ages, i believe Mi-38 is a lot further along than the Ka-60

    AFAIK the delays with those programmes are Russian engines and all Russian parts that are delaying things... of course the biggest hurdle for Mi-38 is that Mi-17 is still in demand and production... but I guess its improved performance is going to win it some customers too.

       
    Russia has patented a new way to launch missiles from aircraft



    Interesting... I always thought the idea of their twin barrel 23mm cannon used to launch flare and chaff rounds was clever and that a 30mm or 40mm model could be used to rapidly deploy chaff clouds and IR screens in clusters around the aircraft without needing to cover the surface with launchers that leave open hollow tubes that must magnify RCS issues...

    The weapon pylons with R-77 missiles use an arm launcher that throws the missile down and away from the aircraft before launch to ensure proper clean separation and clearance before the weapons rocket motor is started up.

    Conformal missiles like the R-37M also have similar structures to allow the weapons to clear the parasitic airflow that would push the weapons back up into the fuselage of the aircraft when the missile is released... potentially damaging the aircraft and the missiles control fins.

    Launching weapons upwards has been considered problematic because access is an issue... note a weapon bay that opens upwards and releases bombs and missiles upwards could double the internal capacity for weapons by better utilising available space but obviously there needs to be some way of pushing the weapons up with enough force that the slip stream slows them down and they fall behind the aircraft for unpowered weapons and for powered weapons their motors light up and accelerate them away from the aircraft without making contact.

    Imagine the small wing root mounted missile positions on the Su-57... imagine a dozen more on top of the aircraft body and a centre area where larger missiles can be loaded and launched... significantly increasing the number of internal weapons available to the pilot in combat...

    The doors would open and the arm would throw the weapon up and several metres clear of the aircraft and the motors on the missiles light up and away goes the weapon toward the target... weapon bay closes...

    For small weapons like 9M100 anti missile missiles with thrust vector rocket motors they could be facing forwards or backwards...

    The main problem is that it probably wouldn't work well with heavy weapons... most normal aircraft would not have the vertical depth to have a large weapon mounted angled up and a launch tube to fire it...

    For something like a MiG-41 it could have a section down the middle with vertically located but angled forward like the Granits on a Kirov with a very short burn rocket motor to effectively blow the 6-8 metre long missile up at a 45 degree angle out of the fuselage of the aircraft and clear of the aircraft and then the main rocket motors of the missiles fire and take them up nearly vertically to rapidly climb to thinner air for max speed perhaps with a scramjet motor benefitting from the high altitude and high speed launch to maximise range.

    During WWII some fighter planes had bombs vertically stored behind the pilots position to reduce inflight drag and centralise the mass near the cg so when they were dropped the aircraft didn't become unbalanced... They dropped them down obviously but the idea is similar in terms of increasing places where weapons are kept without external drag or using up limited available hard points...

    Note removed posts from this thread regarding Indias options for MiGs and Flankers is here:

    https://www.russiadefence.net/t8092-indias-options-for-new-fighters
    Hole
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    Post  Hole Wed Jun 10, 2020 9:43 pm

    VKS Russian Aerospace Forces: News #2 - Page 19 001416
    "Mortar" launch method from planes/ekranoplans.
    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Wed Jun 10, 2020 10:01 pm

    Hole wrote:VKS Russian Aerospace Forces: News #2 - Page 19 001416
    "Mortar" launch method from planes/ekranoplans.

    That's what I thought originally because originally the Caspian Sea Monster had experimented with with angled launchers above the fuselage, but the designers at Fakel spoke about use in even in anti-air/SAM use. So maybe they plan on creating Ekranoplans as a flying component of S-400/S-500/Nudol units, and they should be able to carry dozens of missiles with no real issue.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Thu Jun 11, 2020 5:02 am

    The problem with huge missiles is that the aircraft that carries them needs a fuselage with a height that equals their length... so average sized air launched missiles should be fine but some of the really long missiles are going to need a An-124 sized aircraft....

    The fact that they need that big wind protector suggests this will be from large slow aircraft.... not MiG-31s or MiG-41s... which is fine because launching them vertically from an aircraft moving horizontally would provide benefits from the altitude but not from the flight speed so it would be the same as rolling them out the back of a transport plane at high altitude... and for many weapons that is good enough, while the efficient internal stacking would mean rather more weapons carried more efficiently.

    Imagine a transport with a 6m body height loaded with 6m long cruise missiles that is 5 metres wide and 60m long filled with vertical cells... say five cells across and 60 cells long... that is 5 x 60 = 300 missiles. The obvious problem of course is that that number of 1.5 ton missiles would be 450 tons... but an ekranoplan can carry quite heavy payloads... it is certainly more than two horizontal rotary launchers could carry.

    If we say each of the two weapon bays are 12m long and say 4m wide then 4 tubes wide and 12 tubes long times two is 48 times two... which is quite a large number of missiles too. 96 times 1.5 is quite heavy as well...

    For carrying long range AAMs and ABMs it would make more sense with high flying much faster aircraft and to benefit from the flight speed horizontal launch would be more valuable.

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    Post  PapaDragon Wed Jun 24, 2020 1:23 am


    Freshly built Tu-214 had it's first flight, it's definitely not for civilian airline so I'm putting it here

    Any idea what is it's intended purpose? (please be EW)

    https://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/133518/

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    Isos
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    Post  Isos Wed Jun 24, 2020 1:26 am

    No big antennas so unlikely it is EW/ELINT. Maybe the tanker version ? The angle of the picture isn't helping...
    TheArmenian
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    Post  TheArmenian Wed Jun 24, 2020 2:16 am

    It will go to the government fleet. Transport of VIP.

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    George1
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    Post  George1 Sat Jul 11, 2020 6:43 pm

    Russian Knights aerobatic group fully reequipped with 8xSu-35S and 8xSu-30SM

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/4084207.html
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Fri Aug 14, 2020 4:38 am

    Poland recognized the power of the Russian Su-30SM
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    Post  mnztr Fri Aug 14, 2020 4:58 am

    It mentions the Poles have received Jassm-ER, range 980 km, is this not against the anti-proliferation agreement?
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    Post  GarryB Fri Aug 14, 2020 11:49 am

    The rules don't apply to HATO and the US...
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    Post  mnztr Fri Aug 14, 2020 3:59 pm

    GarryB wrote:The rules don't apply to HATO and the US...

    I guess the reality is that Russia give Iran/india etc technology anyway.
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    Post  GarryB Sat Aug 15, 2020 5:59 am

    Brahmos is based on Yakhont and not Onyx, but hopefully Brahmos II will be hypersonic so the chances of it being less than 500km range are pretty low.

    Maybe Iran wants some Mach 5 800km range Onyx missiles for Christmas...
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    Post  Stealthflanker Sat Aug 15, 2020 6:49 am

    mnztr wrote:It mentions the Poles have received Jassm-ER, range 980 km, is this not against the anti-proliferation agreement?

    If it's operated by Poles.. then it would be an MTCR Compliant version of 300 km. If it's 980 km then it's under US jurisdiction.

    MTCR Is still a thing TBH. Otherwise China and Russia will happily sells 1500 km range Kalibr or CJ-10 missiles and perhaps even still offering the R-17VTO (Scud-D) with precision Aerofan warhead.
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    Post  mnztr Tue Aug 18, 2020 12:48 am

    Stealthflanker wrote:
    mnztr wrote:It mentions the Poles have received Jassm-ER, range 980 km, is this not against the anti-proliferation agreement?

    If it's operated by Poles.. then it would be an MTCR Compliant version of 300 km.  If it's 980 km then it's under US jurisdiction.

    MTCR Is still a thing TBH.  Otherwise China and Russia will happily sells 1500 km range Kalibr or CJ-10 missiles and perhaps even still offering the R-17VTO (Scud-D) with precision Aerofan warhead.

    This one was approved as a foreign military sale to Poland, so I guess Russia can sell anything to Iran now?
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Tue Aug 18, 2020 1:49 am

    Stealthflanker wrote:
    mnztr wrote:It mentions the Poles have received Jassm-ER, range 980 km, is this not against the anti-proliferation agreement?

    If it's operated by Poles.. then it would be an MTCR Compliant version of 300 km.  If it's 980 km then it's under US jurisdiction.

    MTCR Is still a thing TBH.  Otherwise China and Russia will happily sells 1500 km range Kalibr or CJ-10 missiles and perhaps even still offering the R-17VTO (Scud-D) with precision Aerofan warhead.

    Nope, he's right they blatantly violated MTCR.

    70 JASSM-ER Missiles for the Polish F-16 Fighters. US State Department Issues A Consent

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    Post  Tsavo Lion Thu Oct 15, 2020 8:43 am

    IL-80 replacement: 
    https://www.gazeta.ru/army/2020/10/14/13319491.shtml

    They could use IL-476 instead as the follow on to IL-80/82s. The maximum range of the aircraft is 8,500km vs. 5,000 km on the IL-86 & 10,000 km on the IL-96-400.
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    Post  franco Sat Oct 31, 2020 1:11 pm

    Graduation ceremonies for young officers were held today at the Krasnodar higher military aviation school of pilots named after A. K. Serov, Syzran and Chelyabinsk branches of the Zhukovsky and Yuri Gagarin Air force Academy.

    In total, about a thousand pilots and navigators will join the air units of the Aerospace forces and naval aviation of the Russian Navy.

    Among the graduates, about 80 lieutenants completed their training with a red diploma, and 13 people – with a gold medal.

    The celebrations in the schools participated the management team of the aerospace forces: commander of the air force, was Deputy commander of the VKS, Lieutenant-General Sergei Dronov, head of army aviation HQs Colonel Igor Romanov, chief Navigator of air force Colonel Anatoly changers.

    "It is you, young officers, who will master the latest aviation systems and weapons systems, ensure the country's military security, increase the air power and glory of Russia, "said the commander of the air force-Deputy commander – in-chief of the VKS, Lieutenant General Sergey Dronov, speaking to graduates of the Krasnodar school of pilots." I Emphasize that the troops are waiting for you, preparing for the meeting and will do everything necessary for your arrangement and creation of favorable conditions of service, " Dronov stressed.

    All graduates are assigned to officer positions of flight personnel (pilots, navigators, senior pilots, etc.), and will operate, among other things, new models of aviation equipment: su-30sm fighters, su-34 bombers, Mi-28N, Ka-52 attack helicopters, and many others. For this purpose, a program of retraining graduates in the corresponding aviation centers in Ivanovo, Ryazan, Lipetsk and Torzhok is planned.

    NOTE: Hopefully this will alleviate the severe pilot shortage from a few years back. There has been a big increase of new pilots over the past 2 years.
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    Post  franco Mon Nov 02, 2020 1:39 am

    Actual graduating totals were 430 new aircraft pilots, 290 helicopter pilots and 200 navigators, Traffic Controllers, etc.
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    Post  franco Wed Nov 11, 2020 1:32 pm

    The US appreciated the spectacular photos of Russian "strategists" fully armed

    The Russian Ministry of Defense released on November 6, 2020, images of three Russian bombers - Tu-160 Blackjack, Tu-95MS Bear-H and Tu-22M3 Backfire-C, with an arsenal of weapons placed in front of them that can be carried by aircraft. Spectacular photos of Russian combat aircraft were appreciated by experts from the American publication The Drive.


    The supersonic strategic Tu-160 with variable sweep wing is located on the runway behind two rows of subsonic air-launched cruise missiles. The armament line closest to the aircraft is represented by 12 Kh-55SM missiles, which received NATO code designation AS-15 Kent. The second line of missiles is a dozen samples of more modern subsonic subsonic cruise missiles Kh-101 (nuclear-powered X-102). Like the Kh-55SM, the missiles are equipped with by-pass turbojet engines. It is reported that the maximum range of the Kh-101 is from 3 to 4 thousand km. Tu-160 is capable of carrying its weapons only in internal tandem bomb bays. Each of them contains a rotating drum-type launcher, carrying six missiles.


    Before the "strategist" Tu-95MS Bear-H, six Kh-55SM missiles and eight Kh-101/102 missiles are presented. This bomber is equipped with the same rotating launcher as the Tu-160, but since it has only one bomb bay, the aircraft's internal payload has been reduced to six Kh-55 missiles or six Kh-101/102 missiles. Equipped with four double underwing hardpoints, the Tu-95MS Bear-H is capable of carrying up to eight Kh-101/102 missiles.


    The Tu-22M3 Backfire, a long-range bomber of the Russian Aerospace Forces, is presented exclusively with variants of free-fall bombs, including a pair of FAB-3000s weighing about 3 tons each, followed by smaller caliber ammunition. Additional bombs are mounted on the outer Backfire under the fixed wing section.
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    VKS Russian Aerospace Forces: News #2 - Page 19 Empty Re: VKS Russian Aerospace Forces: News #2

    Post  GarryB Thu Nov 12, 2020 5:32 am

    A few obvious errors...

    Kh-102 is nuclear armed, not nuclear powered.

    Max range of the Kh-101 is 4,500km and Kh-102 is 5,000km.

    The rotary launcher on the Bear is much shorter than the one on the Blackjack and is only long enough to carry the older shorter missiles.

    The Kh-101 and Kh-102 can only be carried externally on the Bear which is why the shown weapon load was 6 Kh-55SMs and 8 Kh-101 or 102s.

    The 6 Kh-55SMs carried internally, though it could also carry 6 Kh-555s with conventional warheads.

    The Kh-101/102s are carried externally on 8 weapon pylons.

    magnumcromagnon
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    VKS Russian Aerospace Forces: News #2 - Page 19 Empty Re: VKS Russian Aerospace Forces: News #2

    Post  magnumcromagnon Thu Nov 12, 2020 4:22 pm

    GarryB wrote:A few obvious errors...

    Kh-102 is nuclear armed, not nuclear powered.

    Max range of the Kh-101 is 4,500km and Kh-102 is 5,000km.

    The rotary launcher on the Bear is much shorter than the one on the Blackjack and is only long enough to carry the older shorter missiles.

    The Kh-101 and Kh-102 can only be carried externally on the Bear which is why the shown weapon load was 6 Kh-55SMs and 8 Kh-101 or 102s.

    The 6 Kh-55SMs carried internally, though it could also carry 6 Kh-555s with conventional warheads.

    The Kh-101/102s are carried externally on 8 weapon pylons.


    The max range for Kh-101 is 5,500km, and the max range for Kh-102 is unknown but presumably greater due to a more compact tactical thermonuclear warhead allowing for more room to store propellant, so it's max range is quite possible north of 5,500km.

    The 4,500km range number is for the modernization of the Kalibr subsonic cruise missile.

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