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    Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News #2

    Isos
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    Post  Isos Wed Oct 12, 2022 10:37 am

    Isos writes nonsense. I wrote him nicely that some people have more cars in their collection than France has tanks and howitzers.

    And what's the point ? We are talking about su-34 and rafale. What would be your argument with cars, tanks and howitzers that prove su-34 is better than Rafale ? Are you that dumb to not see there is no link between cars and tank and planes.

    Rafale is bought by many countries. Who is looking to buy su-34 ? No one. Despite veing 10 times cheaper than rafale.
    Podlodka77
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    Post  Podlodka77 Wed Oct 12, 2022 10:43 am

    Isos wrote:
    Isos writes nonsense. I wrote him nicely that some people have more cars in their collection than France has tanks and howitzers.

    And what's the point ? We are talking about su-34 and rafale. What would be your argument with cars, tanks and howitzers that prove su-34 is better than Rafale ? Are you that dumb to see there is no link between cars and tank and planes.

    Rafale is bought by many countries. Who is looking to buy su-34 ? No one. Despite veing 10 times cheaper than rafale.


    Isos, the Su-34 was never primarily a fighter, nor does your France have this category of aircraft.
    Take it easy on that "dumb" because I can write to you that way too. The fact is that France is weak, very weak, and Russia has proven that airfields are vulnerable to destruction. Therefore, I ask you what will be left of the French army when a potential adversary destroys its aviation ?
    And if there were no US pressure and sanctions on the Russian aviation industry, NO ONE would have bought your Rafale. We have an example with submarines for Australia, don't we, because after the termination of the contract with Australia for those submarines, they immediately appeased France with the sale of Rafale aircraft.

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    Isos
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    Post  Isos Wed Oct 12, 2022 11:06 am

    Podlodka77 wrote:
    Isos wrote:
    Isos writes nonsense. I wrote him nicely that some people have more cars in their collection than France has tanks and howitzers.

    And what's the point ? We are talking about su-34 and rafale. What would be your argument with cars, tanks and howitzers that prove su-34 is better than Rafale ? Are you that dumb to see there is no link between cars and tank and planes.

    Rafale is bought by many countries. Who is looking to buy su-34 ? No one. Despite veing 10 times cheaper than rafale.


    Isos, the Su-34 was never primarily a fighter, nor does your France have this category of aircraft.
    Take it easy on that "dumb" because I can write to you that way too. The fact is that France is weak, very weak, and Russia has proven that airfields are vulnerable to destruction. Therefore, I ask you what will be left of the French army when a potential adversary destroys its aviation ?
    And if there were no US pressure and sanctions on the Russian aviation industry, NO ONE would have bought your Rafale. We have an example with submarines for Australia, don't we, because after the termination of the contract with Australia for those submarines, they immediately appeased France with the sale of Rafale aircraft.

    French don't need a big army. The neighbours aren't threatening nor do they have big militaries. French have nuks to ensure no one invade. As simple as that.

    Where russian aviation won contracts against the Rafale ? Nowhere. It's just that they found put rafale was the best aircraft, specially with meteor. That's why they are buying it. Even indians have praised it over the su-30mki that is barely able to fight pakistani f-16.

    Australian choosed french subs because they won the tender. They were the best option. Then it's only politicians who made it fail.

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    Werewolf
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    Post  Werewolf Wed Oct 12, 2022 11:19 am

    Isos wrote:
    French don't need a big army. The neighbours aren't threatening nor do they have big militaries. French have nuks to ensure no one invade. As simple as that.

    Relying on nukes alone will not ensure anything. For years untested, not upgraded and in questionable conditions. The deterrence factor almost doesn't exist. How many does France have and how many are ready to fire right now? Will France have the balls to actually pull the trigger and get vaporized as well?

    Deterrence is like a Power Game. If you have softies trying to bluff you will be sooner or later called out for it and that is the only thing you have. Your cards are useless. Dangerous game for Europeans. NATO might not exist tomorrow, especially when PONOS countries will be in the meat grinder and they will be eagerly go against Russia. Then, we will see how some members of EU and NATO will react.

    Isos wrote:
    Where russian aviation won contracts against the Rafale ? Nowhere. It's just that they found put rafale was the best aircraft, specially with meteor. That's why they are buying it. Even indians have praised it over the su-30mki that is barely able to fight pakistani f-16.

    Australian choosed french subs because they won the tender. They were the best option. Then it's only politicians who made it fail.

    Tenders have little to do who is the best option but mostly political or economical. Let alone if you are a NATO member you are not able to buy Chinese/Russian stuff anyway. They have to comply with NATO standards. The US taxpayers money also works wonders if officials of a country are getting bribed to hand them contracts and then they wait for decades for their shit. Ask the Polish, the Germans, Australia and many others where are the shit they bought from the US.

    Turkey was a good example of sovereign interest to develop it's own MIC for an Attack Helicopter and all peripheral industry related technologies (Radar, Sensors, ATGMs, Engines and many other stuff) The Agusta Westland A-129 was one of the weakest platforms but that was the only one who offered a license for Turkey to produce them domestically. They would be happily buy Russian or American Attack Helicopters over European, however they would never allow them to produce them domestically. That would mean a handover of technologies for dimes. That counts for a lot of technologies. Turkey is buying everything they can to become independent of the West and NATO. They will probably leave NATO the first minute they can assure they won't be touched by NATO and form their pan-turkish maybe even some "Ottoman/Arab" military alliance. They have the ambitions and the goals set and are steadily driving their sphere of influence across al turkic folks and beyond to even Pakistan.

    The Indian's have been politically and economically interested in American bribery for their Apache deals. Let alone a struggling domestic development of their MIC and products.

    Technology and the best product for intended job isn't number one criteria in tenders and never will be, as long as there are economical, political or bribes involved. We can agree that those factors will always be a factor.

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    Isos
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    Post  Isos Wed Oct 12, 2022 1:17 pm

    Relying on nukes alone will not ensure anything. For years untested, not upgraded and in questionable conditions. The deterrence factor almost doesn't exist. How many does France have and how many are ready to fire right now? Will France have the balls to actually pull the trigger and get vaporized as well?

    Softies lol1 . French have invaded half of the world and you think they wouldn't use nuks on an invading army ?

    Russian nuks are no better than french. They don't test them either.

    Only a fool would think they don't work. French have 3 SSBN at sea since the start of the russian war. More than enough to destroy any country or invading force. They also have air launched nuks.

    Like I said two times before, there is no one right now that can invade France. Neighbours are friendly country with no big armies. China and Russia can't reach France. French army doesn't need a big army since it has no objectives that require a big army.

    Tenders have little to do who is the best option but mostly political or economical. Let alone if you are a NATO member you are not able to buy Chinese/Russian stuff anyway. They have to comply with NATO standards. The US taxpayers money also works wonders if officials of a country are getting bribed to hand them contracts and then they wait for decades for their shit. Ask the Polish, the Germans, Australia and many others where are the shit they bought from the US.

    Air forces test plane during tenders. Swiss repport official said Rafale was vetter in all areas than typhoon and grippen.

    Even Russians used to buy french technology before the syrian and ukrainian wars. Most export countries that buy su-30 choose french avionics when they can.
    Podlodka77
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    Post  Podlodka77 Wed Oct 12, 2022 1:33 pm

    "France occupied half the world"... JOKE OF THE DAY ! Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
    Yes yes, only Isos forgot that the Germans beat the French like an old bucket in 42 days... Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
    Now France is increasingly occupied, but with Muslims and migrants.

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    Isos
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    Post  Isos Wed Oct 12, 2022 2:06 pm

    Podlodka77 wrote:"France occupied half the world"... JOKE OF THE DAY !  Very Happy  Very Happy  Very Happy  Very Happy
    Yes yes, only Isos forgot that the Germans beat the French like an old bucket in 42 days...  Very Happy  Very Happy  Very Happy
    Now France is increasingly occupied, but with Muslims and migrants.

    I wrote invaded not occupied. You are too dumb to copy a word. Go back to school please.
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    Post  Podlodka77 Wed Oct 12, 2022 2:10 pm

    Isos wrote:
    Podlodka77 wrote:"France occupied half the world"... JOKE OF THE DAY !  Very Happy  Very Happy  Very Happy  Very Happy
    Yes yes, only Isos forgot that the Germans beat the French like an old bucket in 42 days...  Very Happy  Very Happy  Very Happy
    Now France is increasingly occupied, but with Muslims and migrants.

    I wrote invaded not occupied. You are too dumb to copy a word. Go back to school please.


    And you be so "smart" and understand what it means when someone rips you off like an old bucket in 42 days.

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    Isos
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    Post  Isos Wed Oct 12, 2022 2:15 pm

    Podlodka77 wrote:
    Isos wrote:
    Podlodka77 wrote:"France occupied half the world"... JOKE OF THE DAY !  Very Happy  Very Happy  Very Happy  Very Happy
    Yes yes, only Isos forgot that the Germans beat the French like an old bucket in 42 days...  Very Happy  Very Happy  Very Happy
    Now France is increasingly occupied, but with Muslims and migrants.

    I wrote invaded not occupied. You are too dumb to copy a word. Go back to school please.


    And you be so "smart" and understand what it means when someone rips you off like an old bucket in 42 days.

    I don't understand what's your point anyway. I never said french never lost a war.

    You keep bringing nonsense argument. We were talking about su-34 and Rafale. You reply that french have a small army. What's the point ? You clearly don't know how to back your ideas and go off topic.

    I'll stop loosing my time with you.
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    Post  ALAMO Wed Oct 12, 2022 4:11 pm

    Mir wrote:Yes the Rafale is great but it is an old design. The demonstrator flew back in 1986. I really do like the French fighters but somehow they never built the ones I really liked - like the Mirage G8, the F2 and the Mirage 4000. I guess they were too expensive - even for the French!  

    The most absurd part of this story is that objectively speaking it is a great aircraft.
    A proud son of its ancestors, and something the French can be really proud of.
    Carries some very advanced features, some of which are genuine French approaches and concepts.
    It is not better or worse than its competitors, just ... different.
    It will fit someone's niche perfectly well, will be better in some specs, and fall behind in other.
    It's life.
    But the way this Generale de'Butthurt is presenting that to the audience spoils a whole stars&glory Laughing

    As I have said multiple times, having such an "ambassador" you need no enemies Laughing Laughing Laughing

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    Post  Werewolf Wed Oct 12, 2022 4:35 pm

    Isos wrote:
    Softies  lol1 . French have invaded half of the world and you think they wouldn't use nuks on an invading army ?

    I don't really understand what funny thing I have said?

    The french today are not the french from yesterday. You are like Mongolia now, a puppy compared to what it once was. No one fears Mongolia today, but everyone remembers the great Khan.

    Isos wrote:
    Russian nuks are no better than french. They don't test them either.

    Only a fool would think they don't work. French have 3 SSBN at sea since the start of the russian war. More than enough to destroy any country or invading force. They also have air launched nuks.

    I think it is quite obvious that Russian nukes are by a big margin better than anything else that there is currently. The only updated nuclear weapons with new technologies. Of course there are shit load from Soviet times, but I would bet that they are much better maintained than France or UK maintain theirs.

    Isos wrote:
    Like I said two times before, there is no one right now that can invade France. Neighbours are friendly country with no big armies. China and Russia can't reach France. French army doesn't need a big army since it has no objectives that require a big army.

    Yes, today there are no direct threats to France. I was speaking about tomorrow and the near future of NATO. NATO will not exist for ever and I am damn certain I will see NATO crumbling to non-existence before I bite the dust. There are good indicators that not all NATO members are eagerly frontline meat for the Russian or Chinese meat grinder.
    Turkey has a brain and won't do jack shit for NATO that does not directly benefit their own vision and future plans. They are certainly not as retarded as Ukrops or Pre-Baltic and Polish nutcases.


    Isos wrote:
    Air forces test plane during tenders. Swiss repport official said Rafale was vetter in all areas than typhoon and grippen.

    I was directly addressing your claim as to why no one bought Russian jets over Rafael. The reasons for this I already explained.

    Isos wrote:Even Russians used to buy french technology before the syrian and ukrainian wars. Most export countries that buy su-30 choose french avionics when they can.

    Only in some fields and purposes and in times where a retard was sitting as MoD. Some parts where bought with intention to close technological gaps by acquiring licenses for domestic production.

    On your claim "Most export countries that buy su-30 choose french avionics... Well with all claims you have so far made about Su-34 it is hard to believe you without sources to proof or at least indicate your position.

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    Post  JohninMK Wed Oct 12, 2022 4:40 pm

    What has all this French and Rafael stuff got to do with this thread?

    Seriously O/T, getting as bad as eastern Europe history pollution.
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    Post  ALAMO Wed Oct 12, 2022 4:49 pm

    Werewolf wrote:
    Isos wrote:
    Softies  lol1 . French have invaded half of the world and you think they wouldn't use nuks on an invading army ?

    I don't really understand what funny thing I have said?

    I guess that you didn't get the whole picture Laughing
    The Froggies are indeed the most aggressive nation in history.
    They fought the most battles and invaded most countries.
    Out of all Twisted Evil
    Yet, they have lost maybe not literally "most" of those, but the most important ones indeed.
    Calling them a pussies, cowards, or dedicated POWs is miserably wrong - they used to be really a pain in the ass.
    Still, they have been defeated multiple times, and finally, that really broke their neck.
    On the opposite, Russkie carries the second position.
    They fought the battles numbered 2nd to the French, but ... they won most of those.
    And all of the most important.
    Brits carry the proud third place Laughing and I won't comment of the win/lost ratio as I simply never followed that close enough.

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    Isos
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    Post  Isos Wed Oct 12, 2022 6:08 pm

    ALAMO wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:
    Isos wrote:
    Softies  lol1 . French have invaded half of the world and you think they wouldn't use nuks on an invading army ?

    I don't really understand what funny thing I have said?

    I guess that you didn't get the whole picture Laughing
    The Froggies are indeed the most aggressive nation in history.
    They fought the most battles and invaded most countries.
    Out of all Twisted Evil
    Yet, they have lost maybe not literally "most" of those, but the most important ones indeed.
    Calling them a pussies, cowards, or dedicated POWs is miserably wrong - they used to be really a pain in the ass.
    Still, they have been defeated multiple times, and finally, that really broke their neck.
    On the opposite, Russkie carries the second position.
    They fought the battles numbered 2nd to the French, but ... they won most of those.
    And all of the most important.
    Brits carry the proud third place Laughing and I won't comment of the win/lost ratio as I simply never followed that close enough.


    Who hasn't been defeated ? All the empires collapsed at some point. Mangols were running over europe. Italians reached middle east. All gone.

    Russian soviet empire is the last exemple.

    France has still a big power over its former colonies. It has the 2nd biggest exculsive economic zone on earth.
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    Post  Isos Wed Oct 12, 2022 6:15 pm

    The french today are not the french from yesterday. You are like Mongolia now, a puppy compared to what it once was. No one fears Mongolia today, but everyone remembers the great Khan.

    They went to kill Khadaffi and destroy its country because he was planing an african money out of their control. I'm not saying it's good but they aren't softies.

    I think it is quite obvious that Russian nukes are by a big margin better than anything else that there is currently. The only updated nuclear weapons with new technologies. Of course there are shit load from Soviet times, but I would bet that they are much better maintained than France or UK maintain theirs.

    Russian nuks are not better than french. They both stoped testing them. So russian nuks may just not explode too.

    Russia has more delivery systems like topol, bulava, poseidon... but that's useless since old topol-m are still doing the job and could for the next 50 years for sure.

    No one can intercept them and Russia can't intercept a full salvo of french BM.

    And how could the broken russia maintain them better than french in the 90s ? Again you show how biased you are. Even their new Bulava had hard time in development and failed many times.
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    Post  Isos Wed Oct 12, 2022 6:17 pm

    On your claim "Most export countries that buy su-30 choose french avionics... Well with all claims you have so far made about Su-34 it is hard to believe you without sources to proof or at least indicate your position.

    Indian, malaysian and algerian sukhois are full of thales stuff.

    Only venezuela has it full russian IIRC.
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    Post  Belisarius Wed Oct 12, 2022 6:48 pm

    Isos wrote:
    After 7 months it barely enters Ukrraine and launches missiles from outside ukraine. 0 deep strike.

    It's a failed aircraft.

    So go and tell Israel that the F-35 they bought sucks for not doing a deep strike in Syria, F-35 that beat the Rafale in Switzerland, Finland...

    Isos wrote:
    Pesa radar that has a 120km range against a fighter. Against new fighter with reduced it has much less range.

    RBE-2 PESA (Rafale F1/F2/F3)

    For RCS 0.0001 m2 class target: 7~9 km+
    For RCS 0.001 m2 class target: 13~15 km+
    For RCS 0.1 m2 class target: 41~49 km+
    For RCS 1.0 m2 class target: 73~87 km+
    For RCS 5.0 m2 class target: 110~130 km+
    For RCS 10.0 m2 class target: 130~154 km+

    RBE-2 AESA (Rafale F4, post-2012)

    For RCS 0.0001 m2 class target: 11~13 km+
    For RCS 0.001 m2 class target: 20~23 km+
    For RCS 0.1 m2 class target: 62~73 km+
    For RCS 1.0 m2 class target: 110~130 km+
    For RCS 5.0 m2 class target: 165~195 km+
    For RCS 10.0 m2 class target: 195~230 km+
    https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/radar-ranges-of-different-fighters.94948/

    Being able to detect a fighter with 3-5m2 of RCS at 120km implies that the Su-34 has a detection range comparable to all Rafales except the F4, and the Su-34's focus is not even aerial combat.

    Isos wrote:
    Proof is that airfield where it missed all the targets.

    The problem is that the video of Iskander directly hitting a Buk tells a different story.

    Isos wrote:
    Half a dozen for 0 deep strike like it was supposed to do is embarassing

    It was supposed to destroy the enemy, and judging by the fact that Ukraine spent the last 7 months begging for no-fly-zone and AD I would say the flanker has been working well.

    Isos wrote:
    Made up and fake numbers. And in reality terrain is not flat. You fly low only to escape radars, there is no other advantage.

    Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News #2 - Page 9 Nomzgr10
    In the graph above, the radar of the aircraft on the left flying at 30m high could detect the ship on the right at 40km away, if its mast is 30m high.
    I have seen videos of the Su-34 flying "low" at 100-200m altitude, this will not prevent it from being detected tens of kilometers by a radar at 5m from the ground.

    Isos wrote:
    russians have issues detecting them 30km away which is really bad for them.

    If that were the case Ukraine would not have lost 380 S-300,Buk and Osa and would not be asking the West for AD

    Isos wrote:
    HARM lock passively on your radars. Himars is a mlrs.

    Himars is a GMLRS, and having access to it helps create more efficient EW systems against it.
    And having access to HARM allows you to create radars that are more difficult to be detect and attack by anti-radiation missiles.

    Isos wrote:
    No argument so you change your arguments lol1

    Ironically this is a good description of yourself that talks about range and ground mapping every time someone criticizes you for saying that the Su-34 has a mechanical scanning radar, when in fact it has a PESA radar...

    Isos wrote:
    It's you and your source who said they use kh-59

    I don't see Su-34 armed with Kh-59, but with Kh-29, in the attack on the train station in Kramatorsk the Ukrainians were unable to  distinguish a Tochka from an Iskander, you trust that the Ukrainians know how to
    distinguish a Kh-59 from any other missile?
    I don`t.

    Isos wrote:
    Sucking russian dicks won't help you have a better life.

    And yet you want to criticize others for never bothering to be serious🙄🙄

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    Post  Podlodka77 Wed Oct 12, 2022 7:01 pm

    Isos, next time take some Vaseline because Belisarius ripped you dry this time. 😁😁😁
    Maybe it would be best if Garry made a section on the Rafale aircraft and let Isos write there - with himself.



    Last edited by Podlodka77 on Wed Oct 12, 2022 7:07 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Post  ALAMO Wed Oct 12, 2022 7:07 pm

    Isos wrote:

    Russian nuks are not better than french.

    Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

    Holly fuc#k, this is getting the meme Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

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    Post  Podlodka77 Wed Oct 12, 2022 7:08 pm

    ALAMO wrote:
    Isos wrote:

    Russian nuks are not better than french.

    Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

    Holly fuc#k, this is getting the meme Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing



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    Post  ALAMO Wed Oct 12, 2022 7:11 pm

    Le General de'Butthurt, tell us more and keep entertaining us! Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

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    Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News #2 - Page 9 Empty Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News #2

    Post  Mir Wed Oct 12, 2022 7:23 pm

    [quote="Belisarius"]
    Isos wrote:

    Trust me it is better not to invest your time and knowledge in responding - all you'll get in return is pure unadulterated BS.
    The response will always be the same BS over and over again. Face it the idiot who designed the Su-34 was on crack most of the time, and when he was not an crack he was drunk as a skunk.

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    Post  ALAMO Wed Oct 12, 2022 7:26 pm

    ... in the opposite of the brilliant motherfuckers from the Dassault Laughing

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    Post  Mir Wed Oct 12, 2022 7:27 pm

    ALAMO wrote:
    Isos wrote:

    Russian nuks are not better than french.

    Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

    Holly fuc#k, this is getting the meme Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

    I told you the French has the best wine in the world - the rest is just pure garbage Wink

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    Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News #2 - Page 9 Empty Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News #2

    Post  Mir Wed Oct 12, 2022 7:32 pm

    ALAMO wrote:... in the opposite of the brilliant motherfuckers from the Dassault Laughing

    No no only Châteauneuf-du-Pape monseur! clown

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