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    Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News #2

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    Arrow


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    Post  Arrow Sun Oct 09, 2022 10:45 am

    Ukraińskie AD jest wyraźnie decydujące, ponieważ po 7 miesiącach Rosjanie mogą latać swoimi samolotami tylko na linii frontu na bardzo małej wysokości i ciągle są zestrzeliwane. wrote:

    The question is why VKS does not go deeper into the territory of Ukraine. If, for fear of air defense, it means that Russia still hasn't neutralized it after seven months of the war.
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    ALAMO


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    Post  ALAMO Sun Oct 09, 2022 11:59 am

    That is a sad reality of idee fix while lacking clue Laughing

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    Isos
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    Post  Isos Sun Oct 09, 2022 12:23 pm

    Arrow wrote:

    The question is why VKS does not go deeper into the territory of Ukraine. If, for fear of air defense, it means that Russia still hasn't neutralized it after seven months of the war.

    Biggest issue is that thry haven't destroyed all the AD systems on the frontline. So thrir su-34 have to operate low on the front where they can't see targets.
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    Post  lyle6 Sun Oct 09, 2022 5:41 pm

    Just to put things in the proper perspective: The last time NATO went up against an air defence network that had a smidge of the support they are giving Ukraine they lost 10k aircraft. People tend to forget that - they shouldn't.

    And Rafale's only combat experience was against small arms fire and harsh language. I'd be very surprised if it can do better than the Su-34 against tougher targets.

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    ALAMO


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    Post  ALAMO Sun Oct 09, 2022 7:43 pm

    ... and they have run out of bombs in the meantime ...
    Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

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    Post  GarryB Mon Oct 10, 2022 8:08 am

    Ukrainian AD is clearly decisive since after 7 months russian can fly their planes only on the front line at very low altitude and they keep being downed.

    You say that but opinion is not fact.

    Ukraine has an airpower. It's su-27 keep being shot down by su-35 equiped with long range radars and longer range R-77 than r-27, because with its big RCS the su 27 can be detected by su-35 at max range and r-77 be used at max effective range.

    Again, opinion... we really don't know what is shooting down what and how it is being detected.

    Result of su-34 vs rafale would be the same as ukro su-27 vs ru su-35. Rafale would see it first and launch meteors at long range while the su-34 wouldn't know what's going on.

    But Ukraine has no Meteors and no Rafales so I can confidently assert that zero Su-34s have been shot down by Rafales or Meteors.

    Airfields operating Rafales would be hammered very hard and any Rafales that got airborne would need to negotiate airspace with Su-35s and S-400s and S-350s and BUKs operating in it not to mention Pantsirs and TORs.

    Meteor isn't combat tested, sure. But they have tested it in plenty of configuration including in heavy jamming... it is the best missile today. Everyone agree on that too but some fanboys.

    Without any combat testing we don't know how it would go... is there a ground launched version of it... if it is so amazing wouldn't there be a push for a ground launched model?


    It is a shitty aircraft because it can't do what it was designed to do against against a convenional enemy.

    You have no idea what it has or hasn't done...

    Its deep strike capability are non existant because it is downed by ukrainian AD that consist in soviet tech from the 80s.

    5th gen US stealth strike aircraft shot down by 60s Soviet tech ring any bells?

    The sooner they replace it with su-57 bomber version the better.

    There is no bomber version of the Su-57, it is fully multirole already.

    The question is why VKS does not go deeper into the territory of Ukraine. If, for fear of air defense, it means that Russia still hasn't neutralized it after seven months of the war.

    Why fly any aircraft deep into enemy territory and then have to fly all the way out when their cruise missiles and other standoff weapons only have to make the trip in one direction.

    If Orc air defences are so amazing what is it with all the successful kills of targets deep inside Orc territory since day one?

    Just to put things in the proper perspective: The last time NATO went up against an air defence network that had a smidge of the support they are giving Ukraine they lost 10k aircraft. People tend to forget that - they shouldn't.

    Not to mention much more recently in Kosovo they outnumbered Serbia by an enormous amount in terms of military and defence budgets and fighter aircraft... no interference of their satellites or recon or C4ISTAR and they had 78 days of carte blanche to do as they pleased because they have full western media support... and how did they get on... the Serb Air Defence was as much a threat on day 78 as it was on day 1... they had a lot of ancient equipment that was not mobile at all, which explained their limited success rate in terms of kills, but their air defence network was largely intact despite the eye watering numbers of HARMs being fired...

    HATO had aircraft dumping ordinance in designated areas because there was nothing for them to hit... western taxpayer money well spent... think of a number and triple it and then keep increasing that number till the other side says no and then throw in a set of steak knives and it is a deal... of course it is not corruption, but if you sign off on this deal we will give you a high paying cushy job after you retire from the military using your contacts to get us more contracts in the future...

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    Post  GarryB Mon Oct 10, 2022 8:12 am

    To be clear in Desert Storm in the early 1990s the US had F-117s... stealth strike aircraft and they sent in cruise missiles and even Apache attack helicopters first to take down the biggest most powerful enemy radars to enable their stealthy F-117s to operate in Iraqi airspace... so to be fair (which you are not) penetrating enemy airspace is dangerous even for those with the most practise.

    The West lost lots of Tornados trying to hit Iraqi airfields in that conflict too and Iraq didn't have any S-300s or BUKs...

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    Isos
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    Post  Isos Mon Oct 10, 2022 9:37 am


    You say that but opinion is not fact.

    It's not an opinion. It's a fact. Ukrainian AD is still present in big number and they are effectively using it. Russians are affraid to enter their air space. They fly low allowing use of manpad.

    Ukro AD is decisive.

    It's just you who is so pro russian that you are closing your eyes when a russian equipement is shitty. Since I'm on this forum you haven't criticized once russians.

    But Ukraine has no Meteors and no Rafales so I can confidently assert that zero Su-34s have been shot down by Rafales or Meteors

    I agree. They are being shot down by old system designed by russian themselves that they also operate. Yet su-34 are easy targets for them.

    It's even worse than seeing them being shot down by a rafale or a typhoon with meteor.

    And you know what's funny ? It's their story about USS cook being jammed long time ago. Now we are sure it was a propaganda bullshit story since they can't even jam a 1980 buk radar.

    To be clear in Desert Storm in the early 1990s the US had F-117s... stealth strike aircraft and they sent in cruise missiles and even Apache attack helicopters first to take down the biggest most powerful enemy radars to enable their stealthy F-117s to operate in Iraqi airspace... so to be fair (which you are not) penetrating enemy airspace is dangerous even for those with the most practise.

    That's how SEAD is done. You destroy early warning radars and degrade their AD network with missiles and then you hunt lonely systems.

    Su-34 is an easy target for lonely system as shown in ukraine. Meanwhile F-117 were flying above Baghdad preaty easily which was the area with the most AD systems.

    And again I never said new jets are invincible. I said their survivability is way better than su-34 or f-15 for that matter because their rcs is way too huge and AD missile are not easy to dodge.
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    Post  Belisarius Mon Oct 10, 2022 3:00 pm

    While Isos repeats lies (which have been refuted countless times) about the Su-34, the flanker is now throwing some little surprises at the kiev terrorist regime:
    Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News #2 - Page 7 Img_2185
    Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News #2 - Page 7 Img_2184
    Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News #2 - Page 7 Img_2183

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    Post  Belisarius Mon Oct 10, 2022 3:06 pm

    Isos wrote:

    It's not an opinion. It's a fact. Ukrainian AD is still present in big number and they are effectively using it. Russians are affraid to enter their air space. They fly low allowing use of manpad.

    Ukro AD is decisive.


    Meanwhile in reality, Ukrainian AD shooting his own ground...

    Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News #2 - Page 7 Img_2186

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    Post  Belisarius Mon Oct 10, 2022 3:15 pm

    Hey Elensky, why do you want the strengthening of your air defense?
    I'm told your AD is doing fine
    Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News #2 - Page 7 Img_2187

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    Post  ALAMO Mon Oct 10, 2022 3:33 pm

    Belisarius wrote:Hey Elensky, why do you want the strengthening of your air defense?
    I'm told your AD is doing fine
    Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News #2 - Page 7 Img_2187

    There is a much better question.
    How in detail a sympathy of France can do any difference Laughing
    They lack any serious AD other than Aster, and that is pretty sure it won't be delivered to Ukropistan. Due to obvious reasons.
    Even if it would, France has some 1/10th of the number the Ukrs had back in Feb.
    An ancient Crotale with 9000m range? Laughing LOL! That would be a dealbreaker! How is "Wunderwaffe" in French? Aside from "Hande hoch!" Laughing Laughing

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    Post  Mir Mon Oct 10, 2022 7:05 pm

    Belisarius wrote: Hey Elensky, why do you want the strengthening of your air defense?
    I'm told your AD is doing fine

    Alamo wrote:That would be a dealbreaker! How is "Wunderwaffe" in French? Aside from "Hande hoch!"

    Laughing Laughing Laughing

    Made my day thanks! cheers

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    Post  ALAMO Mon Oct 10, 2022 7:08 pm

    "Almost unused French gun, was dropped only once!" Laughing

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    Post  Isos Mon Oct 10, 2022 7:40 pm

    Meanwhile su-34 haven't been used in the attack. As usual they can't penetrate ukraine air space because they fear ukro AD.
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    Post  Mir Mon Oct 10, 2022 7:47 pm

    @ Isos

    Belisarius wrote:
    Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News #2 - Page 7 Img_2185

    You obviously missed this post Smile

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    Post  GarryB Tue Oct 11, 2022 10:17 am

    As I mentioned in Kosovo with all their fancy toys and wild weasel assets and their HARMS and even stealth aircraft the west didn't wipe out the Serb air defences at all... did they even manage to hit any SAMs at all

    And they refused to even fly below 8km altitude for fear of MANPADS so they didn't even manage what Russia is managing...

    It will be funny to hear all the excuses when Russia reveals new air to air missiles for the new stealth platforms like S-70 and Su-57 with scramjet motors.

    They cancelled the ramjet powered R-77 equivalent of Meteor and fast tracked the enhanced higher energy solid rocket motor model.

    They are currently upgrading the Kh-31 to a scramjet model missile with higher speed and longer range... I would say a dedicated air to air version for anti AWACS and anti JSTARS and anti Inflight refuelling tanker and anti cargo plane use could be in the works...

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    Post  Isos Tue Oct 11, 2022 12:32 pm

    Mir wrote:@ Isos

    Belisarius wrote:
    Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News #2 - Page 7 Img_2185

    You obviously missed this post Smile

    Nice. But Su-35 can use it too. You can even use it from il-38.

    Su-34 is a bomber that can operate in enemy air space. It is supposed to use bombs. And it is barely entering front line.
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    Post  Belisarius Tue Oct 11, 2022 3:20 pm

    Isos wrote:

    Su-34 is a bomber that can operate in enemy air space. It is supposed to use bombs. And it is barely entering front line.

    The Ukrainian command launched another attack on September 2. AFU firward units occupied Bezimenne, but the Russian Air Force's Su-34 wing dropped almost two dozen tonnes of FAB-500 air bombs there. The village was levelled to the ground.
    https://t.me/DonbassDevushka/27460

    Front-line bomber Su-34 of the Russian Air Force strikes the positions of the Armed Forces.
    https://t.me/DonbassDevushka/24940

    Russian Su-34 bombers dropped almost two dozen tons of FAB-500 bombs on the positions of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in Bezymenny. The living force of the enemy, equipment and a tiny ghost village ceased to exist.
    At the same time, the Russian army aviation worked out the manpower of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in the triangle Sukhoi Stavok - Kostromka - Karlomarksovskoye - Bezymennoe.
    https://t.me/DonbassDevushka/22580

    According to Ukrainian command “central” on August 16th Russian Aerospace Forces launched an attack on Ozernoe military airfield.
    According to the source, the airfield was attacked by two X-59 missiles from a Su-34 aircraft.
    https://t.me/DonbassDevushka/19581
    Note: Ozernoe military airfield is hundreds of kilometers inside Ukrainian territory

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    Post  Mir Tue Oct 11, 2022 6:52 pm

    Isos wrote:
    Mir wrote:@ Isos

    Belisarius wrote:
    Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News #2 - Page 7 Img_2185

    You obviously missed this post Smile

    Nice. But Su-35 can use it too. You can even use it from il-38.

    Su-34 is a bomber that can operate in enemy air space. It is supposed to use bombs. And it is barely entering front line.

    You're obviously not much of a Russian aviation enthusiast. The blue underbelly of the Su-34 (as in the picture) is very unique to the Su-34 when compared to the other members of the family. They use a much lighter shade of blue on the other members.

    Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News #2 - Page 7 Su34-b10

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    Post  Mir Tue Oct 11, 2022 7:28 pm

    Posted today by Hole showing the unique blue colour of the Su-34 ready to go in Ukraine >>

    Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News #2 - Page 7 Call_u10

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    Post  ALAMO Tue Oct 11, 2022 7:31 pm

    You are trying to convince someone who does not care the facts that opposes the idee fix Laughing
    Aside of the fact that he is thin like air where it comes to facts Laughing Laughing

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    Post  Mir Tue Oct 11, 2022 7:47 pm

    Looking forward to his response Laughing Laughing

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    Post  ALAMO Tue Oct 11, 2022 7:49 pm

    Mir wrote:Looking forward to his response Laughing Laughing

    I will spare your time Twisted Evil
    Su-34 shit.
    Su-27 shit.
    Russkie shit.
    Rafale no shit.
    Meteor kaboom.
    And around Laughing
    That requires no skills nor knowledge Laughing Laughing

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    Post  Mir Tue Oct 11, 2022 7:52 pm

    You forgot Ukraine AD is the best...
    I don't understand why they keep on begging for more dunno

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