Isos wrote:
I said they have better survivability. Rafale's spectra is the best. Everyone knows that.
And in which actual war was Rafale taking part? I mean war with all awacs radars and strong AAD by your adversary?
Isos wrote:
I said they have better survivability. Rafale's spectra is the best. Everyone knows that.
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Isos wrote:Mir wrote:Scorpius wrote:to call the Su-34, objectively the best fighter-bomber on the planet, obsolete is a very bold statement.
Well it is very difficult (actually impossible) for the French to admit that there are other countries in the world that can produce better wines than the French. It is just unthinkable - pure blasphemy!
In your defense Isos - for me the Mirage III remains one of the most beautiful fighter aircraft ever designed.
Objectivity ? Its radar is shittier than mig-29SMT's. Its rcs is at least 40m2 with dumb bombs.
Its EO systems are prehistorical compare to what Thales's recco and targeting pods are.
Its manoeuvrability is not the same as su-35's as some here thinks.
Its air to air capabilities are shitty since its radar is shitty. A mechanical doppler antenna with a pathetic range of not even 100km. Against a rafale or typhoon with 1m2 it should fall to 60km. With jamming it won't see anything.
Its not a good fighter and just a normal bomber.
You confuse objectivity with your russian cock sucking ability.
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Isos wrote:
Actually Lada was making renault copies in the last years.
I don’t remember such video. The only videos I have seen are indirect hits by Strela and Igla.Regular wrote:
Ka-52 is ofc not at the same level as Mi-28 (It’s a flying tank)
I remember the video of Ka-52 being damaged by small arms and they had to land it in the field like a plane… on a belly with landing gear retracted.
Regular wrote:
But then again, chances are Mi-28 would get shot down too. Both helicopters can attack targets beyond visual range so heavy armour becomes irrelevant and all it matters are the sensors. Not to mention that Ka-52 is super roomy for the crew, ergonomics that can be compared to Su-34 not a helicopters where pilots sit like in bathtub. Seen videos of pilots having full sized AK-74Ms and body armour with them flying Ka-52. It’s a helicopter in league of it’s own.
I would rather walk than drive a French car.
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GunshipDemocracy wrote:Isos wrote:
I said they have better survivability. Rafale's spectra is the best. Everyone knows that.
And in which actual war was Rafale taking part? I mean war with all awacs radars and strong AAD by your adversary?
You do not know WTF you are talking about. The Su-34 has a PESA radar. It is basically a more modern version of the radar in the MiG-31 with ground attack modes. And the radar range is over twice what you are saying. This fighter bomber was designed and is basically late 1990s technology.Isos wrote:Objectivity ? Its radar is shittier than mig-29SMT's. Its rcs is at least 40m2 with dumb bombs.
Its EO systems are prehistorical compare to what Thales's recco and targeting pods are.
Its manoeuvrability is not the same as su-35's as some here thinks.
Its air to air capabilities are shitty since its radar is shitty. A mechanical doppler antenna with a pathetic range of not even 100km. Against a rafale or typhoon with 1m2 it should fall to 60km. With jamming it won't see anything.
Its not a good fighter and just a normal bomber.
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lancelot wrote:You do not know WTF you are talking about. The Su-34 has a PESA radar. It is basically a more modern version of the radar in the MiG-31 with ground attack modes. And the radar range is over twice what you are saying. This fighter bomber was designed and is basically late 1990s technology.Isos wrote:Objectivity ? Its radar is shittier than mig-29SMT's. Its rcs is at least 40m2 with dumb bombs.
Its EO systems are prehistorical compare to what Thales's recco and targeting pods are.
Its manoeuvrability is not the same as su-35's as some here thinks.
Its air to air capabilities are shitty since its radar is shitty. A mechanical doppler antenna with a pathetic range of not even 100km. Against a rafale or typhoon with 1m2 it should fall to 60km. With jamming it won't see anything.
Its not a good fighter and just a normal bomber.
There is no way the MiG-29SMT radar is better in any metric than the Su-34 radar.
Isos wrote:
Old PESA. 120 km against a fighter size target which is target like f-15. Rafale has a clean rcs of around 0.5. Do the math, it can detect it at around 60km and I'm being generous.
It terrain mapping is worse than that of zhuk-M onboard mig-29smt which is a shame for a bomber.
Garry can move this to the appropriate thread. I'm done with this discussion anyway. No need to reply here.
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Werewolf wrote:Isos wrote:
Old PESA. 120 km against a fighter size target which is target like f-15. Rafale has a clean rcs of around 0.5. Do the math, it can detect it at around 60km and I'm being generous.
It terrain mapping is worse than that of zhuk-M onboard mig-29smt which is a shame for a bomber.
Garry can move this to the appropriate thread. I'm done with this discussion anyway. No need to reply here.
Ermm...those claimed numbers remind me of Pechora and F-117. Deja vu???
Did SiegHeil bite you? First making claims and then announcing that you are not willing to further discuss this to avoid being called out and to have to proof your exaggerated claims with data and sources?
Don´t pull a siegy on us! Own up to your words!
ISOS, I ask you again what is the RCS of Rafale aircraft with missiles and bombs suspended. Those French fairy tales about 0.5 to 1m2 are valid for an unarmed aircraft, which has not been proven. According to your "logic", the Rafale with suspended missiles has RCS like the F-35. Who are you selling this nonsense to?
An S-300 derivative is always protected by a TorM2 on the Russian side. The French jet cannot TorM2 jamming.Isos wrote:lancelot wrote:You do not know WTF you are talking about. The Su-34 has a PESA radar. It is basically a more modern version of the radar in the MiG-31 with ground attack modes. And the radar range is over twice what you are saying. This fighter bomber was designed and is basically late 1990s technology.Isos wrote:Objectivity ? Its radar is shittier than mig-29SMT's. Its rcs is at least 40m2 with dumb bombs.
Its EO systems are prehistorical compare to what Thales's recco and targeting pods are.
Its manoeuvrability is not the same as su-35's as some here thinks.
Its air to air capabilities are shitty since its radar is shitty. A mechanical doppler antenna with a pathetic range of not even 100km. Against a rafale or typhoon with 1m2 it should fall to 60km. With jamming it won't see anything.
Its not a good fighter and just a normal bomber.
There is no way the MiG-29SMT radar is better in any metric than the Su-34 radar.
Old PESA. 120 km against a fighter size target which is target like f-15. Rafale has a clean rcs of around 0.5. Do the math, it can detect it at around 60km and I'm being generous.
It terrain mapping is worse than that of zhuk-M onboard mig-29smt which is a shame for a bomber.
Garry can move this to the appropriate thread. I'm done with this discussion anyway. No need to reply here.
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Isos wrote:dionis wrote:Isos wrote:On the other hand, what makes you think that an S-300PS or Buk-M1 can't engage a combat loaded Rafale at maximum range? Rafale isn't a stealthy plane by a long shot even if its RCS is smaller than the Su-34. Or even the wunderwaffe F-35 with external load?
I said they have better survivability. Rafale's spectra is the best. Everyone knows that.
Su-34 isn't adapted for modern air wars. You need a reduced RCS. Su-34 has the size of a private jet and a RCS probably bigger than it with weapons. In a space protected by Rafale or typhoons equiped with radar that can detect it at more than 200km and meteors it has no chance to reach its target. Even with stand off tactical missiles it will have hard time, unless they use 500-1000km range missiles but then you can just use an il-76.
"Everyone knows that" = everyone chose to believe it without it being combat tested against... anything SAM-related really? Hah.
Your Rafale/Meteor vs. Su-34 example is very conveniently contrived in a vacuum... (and totally changing the subject) what about Su-34 escorts, friendly SAMs, and all of the things that could destroy the Rafale on the ground? Pointless speculation.
And an Su-34 costs what, 1/3 of a Rafale?
Rafale totally jammed Slovak S-300. Today there is the f4 upgrade that is better in terms of everything but stealth than su-57 tech.
Come up with all the shit you want french stuff is very very good. Thales has no competitor. Even the US don't bother with their own product and just buy from them.
Russian wonder weapons prove to not work as advertized. Plenty of time. Su-34 more than the other. They are not all bad but far from the description that russians make about them.
This is Iskander stikes:
Even iranian missiles are more precise.
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Isos wrote:Mir wrote:Scorpius wrote:to call the Su-34, objectively the best fighter-bomber on the planet, obsolete is a very bold statement.
Well it is very difficult (actually impossible) for the French to admit that there are other countries in the world that can produce better wines than the French. It is just unthinkable - pure blasphemy!
In your defense Isos - for me the Mirage III remains one of the most beautiful fighter aircraft ever designed.
Objectivity ? Its radar is shittier than mig-29SMT's. Its rcs is at least 40m2 with dumb bombs.
Its EO systems are prehistorical compare to what Thales's recco and targeting pods are.
Its manoeuvrability is not the same as su-35's as some here thinks.
Its air to air capabilities are shitty since its radar is shitty. A mechanical doppler antenna with a pathetic range of not even 100km. Against a rafale or typhoon with 1m2 it should fall to 60km. With jamming it won't see anything.
Its not a good fighter and just a normal bomber.
You confuse objectivity with your russian cock sucking ability.
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I googled the clean RCS of the Su-34 and it's around 1 m^2. As I wrote before....most Su-34 were lost due manpads and not radar based systems.Isos wrote:ISOS, I ask you again what is the RCS of Rafale aircraft with missiles and bombs suspended. Those French fairy tales about 0.5 to 1m2 are valid for an unarmed aircraft, which has not been proven. According to your "logic", the Rafale with suspended missiles has RCS like the F-35. Who are you selling this nonsense to?
Equiped with air to air missile it should be still around 1m2.
Bombs increase it but nowhere near su-34 clean RCS. Spectra makes a wonderful work protecting it in such configurations anyway.
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This picture is out of context! The Iskander may not be as accurate as some cruise missiles...but I doubt really that it misses by 200 or 300 m! The Iskander missiles very accurately hit their targets in Ukrainian cities ... why would they miss their targets at an airfield by about 300 m?
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The Iskander may not be as accurate as some cruise missiles... wrote:
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Oh yes, because everyone remembers how Egypt did an exercise between their Rafales and Su-35, where the Russian aircraft was totally blinded by Spectra... despite the fact that Egypt never received the Su-35...I said they have better survivability. Rafale's spectra is the best
Its spectra is recognized as the best by all the military people
No, only the French and French fanboys like you THINK that.Everyone knows that.
The Flankers' RCS went from 10-15m2 on the Su-27 to 4-5m2 on the Su-30, decreasing to 1-2m2 on the Su-35. In a quick search I found that the estimated RCS of the Su-34 is ~1m2, which is comparable to the most modern 4th generation fighters in the west.You need a reduced RCS. Su-34 has the size of a private jet and a RCS probably bigger than it with weapons.
You conveniently ignore the fact that the Su-34s could be being escorted by the Su-35 which has the Irbis with a detection range of 350km, in addition to the R-37M missile capable of hitting targets over 300km away.
In a space protected by Rafale or typhoons equiped with radar that can detect it at more than 200km and meteors it has no chance to reach its target.
There is no merit in being able to jammed a 30-year-old, non modernized air defense battery...Rafale totally jammed Slovak S-300
Oh really! Let's see Caesar's performance in the Ukraine conflict:Come up with all the shit you want french stuff is very very good.
Does the F4 have five AESA radars operating in 2 different bands and 270° angle of view?Today there is the f4 upgrade that is better in terms of everything but stealth than su-57 tech.
I provided you images of that failed iskander attacks.
This is Iskander stikes:
Everyone here has seen dozens of videos of the "Product 305" missile hitting targets through windows, who here do you hope to convince with that stupid statement?!
Even iranian missiles are more precise.
How many were lost? 5? 6?
Su-34 are falling from the skies like moskitos in Ukraine
Su-34 are getting anilhated in Ukraine, plenty of pictures.
Russians are doing the same thing in Ukraine with the UPAB-1500B-E
Rafale managed to launch guided bombs from 50km away in Libya.
They only have some system here and there because most of what they had was destroyed by Russia, before the conflict completed a month the Biden administration went to Turkey to beg them to send their S-400 to Urcania, that says everything about how "bad" Russia is against the Ukrainian AD...They even lost a su-35 equiped with "state of art" jammer. At least the Rafale manage to jamm a s-300. Flankers can't even escape some old buk and osa.
Ukraine doesn't even have an IADS, just some system here and there and they still manage to destroy them everytime they enter Ukraine.
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0nillie0 wrote:Sounds like the Ukranians could really use those Rafales...
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