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    S-500 'Prometheus' and S-550 missile systems

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    Post  Sujoy Mon Nov 15, 2021 9:13 am

    Russia is offering both the S-500 and the S-550 to India. I have a feeling that India will probably opt for at least one of these systems if not both in order to keep parity with China's extensive SAM network.

    https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/defence/russia-exploring-market-for-s550-missile-system-all-eyes-on-india/articleshow/87688003.cms?from=mdr
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    Post  owais.usmani Mon Nov 15, 2021 9:25 am

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    Post  George1 Mon Nov 15, 2021 4:54 pm

    S-550 system to have extended range, will be able to intercept any targets, Rostec vows

    https://tass.com/defense/1361459

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    Post  dino00 Mon Nov 15, 2021 4:59 pm

    One thing to confuse even more is that an ABM for the S-500 was already tested

    "Sources in the military department told Izvestia that the latest anti-missile missile for the S-500 is currently in a high degree of readiness. The ammunition was successfully tested at the Sary-Shagan training ground in Kazakhstan. After a series of launches, he confirmed the inherent characteristics, and the combat crews successfully completed the task, hitting a conditional target with a given accuracy . True, the interlocutor of the publication refused to name the index, as well as the characteristics of the novelty. According to him, in addition to Prometheus, the same product will be used in the updated stationary missile defense (ABM) system in Moscow."

    https://iz.ru/1173752/anton-lavrov-anna-cherepanova/prometeiu-dobaviat-ognia-s-500-poluchit-novye-rakety-perekhvatchiki

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    Post  GarryB Tue Nov 16, 2021 5:21 am

    Maybe S-550 has more affordable missiles that are better optimised to deal with manouvering hypersonic targets... like proper manouvering hypersonic targets that are intended to evade interception on their way to their targets... like Iskander and Kinzhal...
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    Post  dino00 Tue Nov 16, 2021 3:02 pm

    GarryB wrote:Maybe S-550 has more affordable missiles that are better optimised to deal with manouvering hypersonic targets... like proper manouvering hypersonic targets that are intended to evade interception on their way to their targets... like Iskander and Kinzhal...

    I think it's just the opposite, S-550 should have bigger expensive missiles against ICBM warheads, the launcher should be bigger.
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    Post  Kiko Tue Nov 16, 2021 4:06 pm

    How the S-550 missile defense system differs from the S-500 "Prometheus", by Rostislav Zubkov and Artur Priymak for VZGLYAD, 16/11/2021.

    A week after Shoigu announced the existence of the S-550, the first official data on this anti-aircraft missile system appeared. It is assumed that the Russian army will receive a novelty in four years. What are the advantages of the S-550 air defense system and which foreign countries can get it in the first place?

    Complexes S-550 will have a large target detection range and missile range, said on Monday the head of the state corporation "Rostec" Sergei Chemezov, speaking at the international air show Dubai Airshow 2021. "This is a work that never stops and will continue to increase both the detection range and the missile range with the ability to intercept any targets, ”he said.

    A source close to the military department added in an interview with TASS that the first batch of S-550 will be delivered to our army by 2025. According to him, the S-550 has already been created in "hardware" - we are talking about a strategic missile defense system. The interlocutor emphasized that a mobile launcher with a hypersonic missile will be used, while the naval version of the complex is not envisaged.

    The new S-550 anti-aircraft missile system (SAM), developed on the basis of the S-500 Prometheus, will become the world's first mobile specialized anti-missile and anti-space defense system capable of effectively destroying intercontinental ballistic missiles, two sources in the Defense Ministry told RIA Novosti on Saturday. industrial complex.

    Currently, Russia and the United States have specialized missile defense systems capable of shooting down warheads of ICBMs with a high probability, but of a stationary type - anti-missiles are placed in mines.

    “The new mobile system is being developed as a version of the S-500 air defense system and will specialize in anti-missile and anti-space defense tasks. Its capabilities to intercept warheads of ballistic missiles of various ranges, primarily intercontinental ones, as well as space attack weapons will be an order of magnitude higher than that of the S-400 and S-500, as well as the American missile defense systems - THAAD and Aegis with SM-3Block llB missiles ", - said one of the interlocutors of the agency. Another source confirmed this information, adding that "the development of a new system is at an advanced stage."

    For the first time the existence of a C-550 last week, said Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu, the head, but no information about it has not resulted Minister. Probably, it will be a modification of the S-500, military expert Pavel Felgenhauer told the VZGLYAD newspaper. In his opinion, the main components of the S-500 and S-550 systems will be identical, the difference is likely to be in specialization.

    “The S-500 was created against both aerodynamic and ballistic targets. The S-550 is a purely anti-missile variant that can shoot down satellites in low orbit at the same time. True, this is not a great achievement: the Americans and the Chinese can already do this, ”the source said.

    “The S-550 will definitely have a different missile and, I suppose, separate batteries against different targets - aerodynamic and anti-missile. Perhaps the new complex will even be able to carry out a direct intercept - when, for example, an enemy warhead is hit by an interceptor warhead. So far, no one has done this in our country: the topic was closed in the 70s, considering direct interception impossible, ”he explained.

    Felgenhauer doubts that the S-550 will become "the world's first mobile specialized missile defense and anti-missile defense system" capable of effectively destroying ICBMs, according to RIA Novosti sources . As the specialist recalled, Israel already has such a technology - the Hetz-3 anti-missile system. “These are serious mobile batteries, they are already deployed, they can move and are not in mines. One battery is located north of Tel Aviv, the second to the south. But I don't know if this system will be able to shoot down a conventional satellite. Israel simply does not have such a task, ”the expert added.

    As for the timing, the S-550 may well appear in service with Russia until 2025, Felgenhauer agreed with the opinion of a TASS source . At the same time, the expert admitted that in the future, the development may be of interest to China - one of the importers of the S-400 systems and a potential buyer of the S-500. As for other clients - India, Turkey and Iran - it is still difficult to say anything unambiguous, the interlocutor admits.

    “It is clear that for export we will supply a deteriorated version of the complex. If the development comes from the "cash" of the Ministry of Defense, various components are removed from it. It is clear that weapons abroad may fall into the hands of a potential enemy. The most secret cannot be sold, the General Staff simply will not allow this, ”he concluded.

    Military expert Alexei Leonkov also suggests that China may be among the buyers of the S-550 - a country that wants to buy the S-500 from Russia. With the participation of Russian specialists, the People's Liberation Army of China is modernizing its warning system of a possible missile attack, he added. “This system in China has not changed for several decades. But since then, the situation in the world has seriously changed. Chinese territory is already being considered as a target for ballistic missiles with nuclear warheads, Beijing understands this well, ”Leonkov explained.

    The interlocutor recalled that a deeply echeloned defense of the coastal zone, where the most densely populated provinces are located, have already been created in the Celestial Empire. “For the Chinese air defense, our S-400s have already become a real gift. The range of the S-400 missile is 250 kilometers. The Chinese, for example, already shot down a maneuvering air target that was moving at very high speeds with this missile. The appearance of the S-550 - a complex that can hit even further - would make China's air defense even more effective. Moreover, the S-550 can operate in near space, which is just manna from heaven for Beijing, ”the expert noted.

    True, the expert is not sure that in Russia itself the S-550 will appear on alert by 2025. “This is still a question. True, if earlier it took about a decade to create one missile system, now this period is much shorter. Now Russian missiles are designed and manufactured much faster. At the Almaz-Antey concern, the design of missile systems has long been automated, which makes it possible to quickly take the next step on the current project. The same S-350 appeared at Almaz-Antey rather quickly - due to the fact that the concern and all its enterprises were re-equipped, ”the expert recalled.

    https://m.vz.ru/society/2021/11/16/1129202.html

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    Mir
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    Post  Mir Tue Nov 16, 2021 6:18 pm

    It's all still a bit confusing as the S-500 appears to be mobile and is claimed to be capable of shooting down ICBM.

    What is clear is that the S-550 is a development from the S-500 and it is also ASAT capable system as well as being able to shoot down ICBM's.

    Being developed from the S-500 means that it will be in service relatively soon as well and there is already a fully developed system under evaluation.

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    dino00
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    Post  dino00 Tue Nov 16, 2021 7:22 pm

    The S-550 is probably being developed since 2009, as S-500 ABM when the S-500 development started, they were supposed to be delivered at the same time but S-550 is delayed, that's why Borisov talked about Almaz Antey delivering a simplified version, and Russian Mod talked about S-500 being delivered in 2025, then all of sudden...2021! S-500(primarily against aerodynamic targets) is ready, S-550( ballistic missile) is not.

    What I think is the dedicated Russian Strategic Missile Defense

    S-500 (limited anti-ICBM capacity with 77N6N? a development of 9M82MD)

    S-500 'Prometheus'  and S-550 missile systems - Page 8 S50010

    A-235.  3 Echelons

    Short range missile
    53T6M(silo based)

    Medium Range
    S-550(capabilities 1 order of magnitude greater than S-500 77N6)77N6N-1.   Also silo based
    S-500 'Prometheus'  and S-550 missile systems - Page 8 95701_10

    Long Range
    Aerostat
    S-500 'Prometheus'  and S-550 missile systems - Page 8 Downlo11
    lol1

    Nom Strategic Missile Defense
    Abakam with 9M82MD

    S-500 'Prometheus'  and S-550 missile systems - Page 8 System10

    Intercept Plan: Cities Get Missile Defense

    Social facilities, infrastructure and troop locations will be covered by a non-strategic missile defense system
    October 3, 2018

    The Defense Ministry approved the concept of a non-strategic missile defense (NMD). The complexes that will be part of this system will cover cities, important social institutions, troop concentrations, road and industrial infrastructure. Their potential targets will be hypersonic aircraft and ballistic missiles. Now systems capable of intercepting them have been created only around key strategic objects. In the future, the NMD must ensure the safety of the entire territory of the country from missile strikes.

    https://iz.ru/795323/roman-kretcul-aleksei-ramm/plan-perekhvat-goroda-poluchat-protivoraketnuiu-oboronu

    Plus Nudol (Primarily anti-satellite)
    S-500 'Prometheus'  and S-550 missile systems - Page 8 A-235-10

    I think there's a lot of confusion with the missiles and mobile launchers, I think this will be close to the truth.

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    Post  Hole Tue Nov 16, 2021 9:49 pm

    It´s S-500 that was delayed. 10 years ago the designer claimed that it should be ready in 2015. I guess the delay had to do with the achievments in hypersonic missile development. The MoD wanted the S-500 to be able to shot down hypersonic missiles so some adjustments were neccessary. It was the same with S-300 and cruise missiles (it became ready at the beginning of the 80´s and not the end of the 70´s).

    The S-550 seems to be a "mature" version of the S-500. Or the system that brings ABM/ASAT/AHM (anti-hypersonic missiles) capacities to the "standard" air defence unit, merging the jobs of the S-350/S-400/S-500 and Nudol into one system. Which doesn´t mean the other system will not be put into service with the specialised services.

    S-500 'Prometheus'  and S-550 missile systems - Page 8 Feutzx10
    Still without S-550

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    Post  Hole Tue Nov 16, 2021 9:51 pm

    And Pavel Felgenhauer is not an expert. No

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Wed Nov 17, 2021 3:22 am

    Pavel Felgenhauer is a censored .

    I think it's just the opposite, S-550 should have bigger expensive missiles against ICBM warheads, the launcher should be bigger.

    I think you might be right... it mentions the S-550 as being the first mobile system able to engage ICBM targets, so clearly the 7km/s interception capability of the S-500 has been deemed not to be enough to engage all ICBM/SLBMs, so the S-550 is also mobile but able to reach longer distances and higher perhaps and also faster targets... a sort of anti satellite anti ICBM specialist.

    That is perhaps why they are not interested in a naval version for the moment as S-500 should be able to deal with most anti ship hypersonic weapons.

    It is like a more specialised mobile S-500 for greater range and faster targets... a sort of mobile Moscow ABM system that is not silo based...

    Probably, it will be a modification of the S-500, military expert Pavel Felgenhauer told the VZGLYAD newspaper. In his opinion, the main components of the S-500 and S-550 systems will be identical, the difference is likely to be in specialization.

    An expert that suggested that because of their training and experience with HATO that the Georgian armed forces would thrash Russia in a conflict...

    “The S-500 was created against both aerodynamic and ballistic targets. The S-550 is a purely anti-missile variant that can shoot down satellites in low orbit at the same time. True, this is not a great achievement: the Americans and the Chinese can already do this, ”the source said.

    Except that the American and Chinese missiles that already do this are not much better than S-300P missiles in terms of performance.

    So the suggestion is that S-400 is PAC-2, S-550 is PAC-3, and THAAD all rolled in to one.... except obviously the S-400 is already better than PAC-2 and PAC-3 and THAAD combined already... S-500 is a whole level higher in terms of range and is more like an SM-6, while the S-550 seems to be a further step above.


    “The S-550 will definitely have a different missile and, I suppose, separate batteries against different targets - aerodynamic and anti-missile. Perhaps the new complex will even be able to carry out a direct intercept - when, for example, an enemy warhead is hit by an interceptor warhead. So far, no one has done this in our country: the topic was closed in the 70s, considering direct interception impossible, ”he explained.

    Again running down the capabilities of the Russians.... direct missile to missile kills is why US anti missile missiles fail so often.... what air defence system in the world uses sniper rifles for air defence against high speed targets?


    Felgenhauer doubts that the S-550 will become "the world's first mobile specialized missile defense and anti-missile defense system" capable of effectively destroying ICBMs, according to RIA Novosti sources . As the specialist recalled, Israel already has such a technology - the Hetz-3 anti-missile system. “These are serious mobile batteries, they are already deployed, they can move and are not in mines. One battery is located north of Tel Aviv, the second to the south. But I don't know if this system will be able to shoot down a conventional satellite. Israel simply does not have such a task, ”the expert added.

    What a cock sucker... Hetz-3 is Arrow 3 and it is launched from Silos... from Wiki:

    According to Jane's Defence Weekly, a solicitation that outlines the expansion of an Israeli Air Force facility at Tal Shahar, roughly halfway between Jerusalem and Ashdod, near Beit Shemesh, indicates that almost certainly it will be used for four Arrow 3 launchers on sites cut into the surrounding hills.

    Yeah... sounds really mobile... NOT.

    It's all still a bit confusing as the S-500 appears to be mobile and is claimed to be capable of shooting down ICBM.

    It is reported to be able to deal with targets moving at 7km/s, so maybe they want something that can deal with even faster targets... perhaps 7km/s is not fast enough... some objects from space move much faster so in that sense it might be interesting too...

    The S-550 is probably being developed since 2009, as S-500 ABM when the S-500 development started, they were supposed to be delivered at the same time but S-550 is delayed, that's why Borisov talked about Almaz Antey delivering a simplified version, and Russian Mod talked about S-500 being delivered in 2025, then all of sudden...2021! S-500(primarily against aerodynamic targets) is ready, S-550( ballistic missile) is not.

    Or possibly their own work with Avangard where the glider enters the atmosphere at mach 26 and accelerates to mach 27 suggests that 7km/s intercept speed might not be enough... mach 1 being about 320m/s at sea level so 7km/s is only mach 22...

    Perhaps with the S-550 they are going for 10km/s or even 11km/s which is orbital speed...

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    Post  kvs Wed Nov 17, 2021 3:32 am

    News coming out of Russia is that it is developing anti-hypersonic missile systems. So not only do we have hypersonic systems we
    have their counter. So the S-550 is likely using a new type of ABM and all the pooh-pooh from clowns like Felgenhaur is simply
    pathetic. Russia does not deploy useless systems and does not engage in PR showboating like is the cultural norm in the USA.

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    Post  GarryB Wed Nov 17, 2021 5:53 am

    They made most of their systems able to shoot down HARM type weapons and other stand off munitions... I am sure they will endeavour to make their bigger SAMs all be able to engage manouvering hypersonic threats too... Certainly the Russian Navy will be interested in shooting down the western equivalent of Zircon and Kinzhal when the west finally develops them, which suggests when they say there wont be a naval S-550 system means the S-500 should be able to deal with air breathing manouvering hypersonic threats against ships.

    Felgenhaur is a western troll that western news organisations hire when they want to downplay Russian equipment and technology.... you could see in that article he is already attempting to downplay the potential performance of the S-550 without not knowing a lot about it... he is an attack dog used to make Russia look bad and backwards in most areas military... and is so often wrong.

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    Post  limb Thu Nov 18, 2021 7:47 am

    What are some physical principles that would make the S-500 able to shoot down hypersonic glide vehicles? I thought there simple no way that doesnt break the laws of physics to successfully detect and track them, let alone shoot them down. Its like asking for a laser that is unaffected by clouds.
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    Post  Mir Thu Nov 18, 2021 9:55 am

    I would have to guess here but I am pretty sure it would be easy to track any hypersonic glide vehicle. The only problem is that it moves at extremely high speed and it is capable to rapidly maneuver and deviate from a set path. Those two aspects will make it very hard to intercept.

    If you have a missile that is equally capable of traveling at hypersonic speed and being able to make radical maneuvers to intercept the glide vehicle I think you have a good chance of success.

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    Post  Hole Thu Nov 18, 2021 12:40 pm

    ICBM´s are hypersonic, too. No problem to track them. The maneuvering is the problem. But the russian AD missiles are as fast and maneuverable. In that instance it is down to reaction time of the AD/ABM ystem and the guidance of the missile to the target.

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    Post  Autodestruct Fri Nov 19, 2021 2:27 am

    Mir wrote:

    If you have a missile that is equally capable of traveling at hypersonic speed and being able to make radical maneuvers to intercept the glide vehicle I think you have a good chance of success.  

    No, if the attacking warhead can maneuver then the intercepting missile has to be able to achieve significantly higher velocities in order to attain a high kill percentage (because the flight path of the attacking warhead can no longer be precalculated). And it needs to be able to operate under the much higher g forces that results. A very significant challenge for missile defense. That's why hypersonic glide vehicles are one of the next big things in power projection.

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    Post  Mir Fri Nov 19, 2021 7:14 am

    If you read my sentence carefully then you'll see that I've stated that the SAM/ABM missile must be able to travel at hypersonic speed and it must be able to make radical maneuvers. Which is pretty much what you are saying. The ABM is likely to meet the attacking glide vehicle in a head-on course. I think it will be virtually impossible to chase a hypersonic glide vehicle down. Time is not exactly on your side here.

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    Post  GarryB Fri Nov 19, 2021 9:27 am

    What are some physical principles that would make the S-500 able to shoot down hypersonic glide vehicles? I thought there simple no way that doesnt break the laws of physics to successfully detect and track them, let alone shoot them down. Its like asking for a laser that is unaffected by clouds.

    If they can't track hypersonic targets then the warheads of most ICBMs and SLBMs would be untrackable too... which they are not.

    And you hint at one secret... if plasma is absorbing radar signals then the IR plume from the Plasma can track the target till a frequency can be found to track the targets.

    Remember they lose track of targets reentering the atmosphere but that is because their tracking systems are high frequency... long wave search frequencies would probably give a rather good indication of its location while it is invisible to the higher frequency tracking system.

    In the past that was not good as longer wave radars were used to detect presence and their inaccuracy was not a critical problem, but thanks to western use of radar stealth aircraft Russia has been working for the best part of 40 years on the problems with longer wave radars and their accuracy and effectiveness, and their performance has gotten to the point where a target that wont show up on a short wave tracking radar like an F-35 will appear at 5,000km range on a container radar situated deep in Russian territory while the F-35 is on the Iran Iraq border...

    The next step of course is actually being able to hit the target, well with a subsonic target after you detect it you track it for a bit and identify it... lets say it is a cruise missile. The turning rate and speed range of that target will be known and so it is then a case of determining where the nearest SAM site to intercept it is and then you create a box based on the amount of time the SAM will take to reach the target. Cruise missiles can't just stop dead and reverse direction... they can speed up or slow down, they can turn left or turn right and they can climb or descend or any combination of any of these things so in say the 30 seconds the missile will take to fly into the area that cruise missile has a box of airspace where it will end up no matter what turn or climb or descent or speed change it decides to perform. The target generally wont know immediately that it is under attack so it might fly straight for the first 10 seconds anyway... the point is that as i said the target can't do an instant 180 degree turn so the intercept box will be rather large and in front of the current position of the target... as the SAM closes with the target the distance the target can move in a turn or change of speed or altitude gets smaller meaning the box where it could be gets smaller.

    The problem with hypersonic manouvering targets is that this box is enormous and a quick turn without warning can shift the intercept point by dozens of kms in a second, which no single missile could match... but then launching a missile that releases a dozen mini missiles that spread out could make that interception possible without resorting to lots of nuclear warheads.

    Of course with a SAM whose flight range is over 600km having a payload that can split up and hit dozens of separate targets with one shot also makes it more affordable and sensible... you could launch the missile at an enemy airbase and have these warheads come down and attack either aircraft in the air near the airfield or aircraft parked on the ground... hitting a dozen targets per shot can make it actually rather affordable especially if the airfield is where AWACS and JSTARS and inflight refuelling aircraft are based.

    The missile might release warheads on the way to attack targets of opportunity like a B-2 that has launched 8 cruise missiles a single S-550 or S-500 could be launched and in flight it releases missiles to intercept each cruise missile along the way till it reaches the B-2 and shoots it down too.

    This would be a good way of making really big heavy missiles cost effective and also a good way of dealing with swarms before they develop, so instead of shooting down 90 cruise missiles launched from a converted C-17 or thousands of drones launched from a C-130, you can intercept a few launched missiles and drones but also kill the launch platform before they release everything...

    The only problem is that it moves at extremely high speed and it is capable to rapidly maneuver and deviate from a set path. Those two aspects will make it very hard to intercept.

    The solution could be a swarm IADS... ironically.

    No, if the attacking warhead can maneuver then the intercepting missile has to be able to achieve significantly higher velocities in order to attain a high kill percentage (because the flight path of the attacking warhead can no longer be precalculated). And it needs to be able to operate under the much higher g forces that results. A very significant challenge for missile defense. That's why hypersonic glide vehicles are one of the next big things in power projection.

    There is intelligence too... the Thunderbird subsonic nuclear powered cruise missile can detect enemy radar emissions and will fly around radar centres to avoid detection and interception, and I would think a hypersonic weapon would at least manouver a little bit to if not evade the radar sites at least vary the flight path as it goes past so any missiles launched will not be able to match the shift in trajectory and run out of juice.

    I would think some fake radar emitters could get the target to manouver a bit which would restrict its options and make it easier to intercept.

    Effectively doing what primitive man did.... herd large strong animals like Mammoths to the proximity of a cliff and then start a fire to scare them into running over that cliff...

    Using fake radar signals to make the target think interceptors are coming from two different directions to fool it into performing a manouver that will deliver it to a radar and radio silent interceptor already coming from a more suitable direction.

    Obviously it will be incredibly hard but at least they have targets they can practise with and test ideas.

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    Post  Sujoy Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:48 am

    GarryB wrote:The solution could be a swarm IADS... ironically
    This is why exo atmospheric interception is so very important. Once the warhead enters the atmosphere it can maneuver to such a large extent that it becomes extremely difficult for any SAM complex to intercept it.
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    Post  thegopnik Sat Nov 20, 2021 4:03 am

    I am guessing that if there is an S-600 system it would have photonic radars. Bare with me the old information that was posted before.

    https://rg.ru/2018/04/08/revoliuciia-v-tehnike-lokacii-v-rossii-sozdaetsia-radiofotonnaia-rls.html

    For example, the basis of radar missile defense systems and tracking of space objects are huge radar complexes. The premises in which the equipment is located are multi-storey buildings. The use of photonic technologies will allow you to fit all the control and data processing systems in much smaller dimensions - literally in several rooms. At the same time, the technical capabilities of radars to detect even small objects at a distance of thousands of kilometers will only increase. Moreover, due to the use of photonic technologies on the radar screen, there will be not a mark of the target, but its image, which is unattainable by classical radar. That is, the operator instead of the usual glowing point will see what is really flying - an airplane, a rocket, a flock of birds or a meteorite, it is worth repeating, even thousands of kilometers from the radar.

    On the screen of the photon radar will appear not the mark of the target, but its image, which is unattainable by classical radar.

    Now all radar systems - military and civilian - operate in a strictly defined frequency range, which complicates the technical design and leads to a variety of radar nomenclature. Photonic radars will achieve the highest degree of unification. They are able to instantly rebuild in a very wide range of operating frequencies - from meter values to millimeters.

    The characteristics of the S-500 Prometheus air defense system were announced
    It has long been no secret that the so-called stealth aircraft are clearly visible in the meter range, but most accurately their coordinates are better given by stations of centimeter and millimeter ranges. Therefore, in air defense systems, meter stations with very large antennas work simultaneously, and more compact ones - centimeters. But the photonic radar, scanning space in the long frequency range, will easily detect the same "invisible" and, instantly adjusting to a broadband signal and high frequency, will determine its exact coordinates in height and range.


    https://rg.ru/2018/04/22/radiofotonika-stanet-drajverom-sovremennoj-radioelektroniki.html

    Developments in the field of radiophotonics go in several directions. Is there anything out there? Absolutely. For example, in the Research Institute of Long-Range Radio Communication under the leadership of Alexei Shulunov, a prototype of a radiophotonic radar has already been assembled. This is an X-band radar with an optical heterodyne, which can be rebuilt in the widest range of radio waves - from meter frequencies to millimeter.

    According to experts, it is the ability of radiophotonic radars to instantly rebuild in the widest frequency range that will change the entire radar technology, including the construction of various radar complexes.


    It sounds like radar horizon no longer matters, its like its saying as long as you receive HF waves you can rebuild them to frequencies that are higher than X-band which offer pin point precision in targetting. Another example is stating flocks of birds being seen 1000s of kilometers away and we know that birds dont fly near space let alone existing aircrafts. The Yakhroma radar might offer what we are looking for scratch

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    Post  dino00 Sat Nov 20, 2021 11:59 am

    Sources called the target of the S-550 missile defense system American X-37 drones

    MOSCOW, November 20 - RIA Novosti. The S-550 mobile missile defense system being developed in Russia will be able to shoot down American X-37 space unmanned vehicles capable of carrying nuclear warheads, two sources in the military-industrial complex told RIA Novosti.

    Earlier, the Russian side stated that the X-37 orbital drones are capable of carrying several nuclear warheads on board and are strategic strike systems based in space. At the same time, the United States officially claims that the X-37 is intended only for scientific and reconnaissance purposes. These vehicles can maneuver in space by changing their orbit.

    "The S-550 mobile strategic missile defense system will specialize in the destruction of ballistic and orbital space targets, primarily in the destruction of nuclear warheads of intercontinental missiles. Typical targets for the future system include the American X-37 space drones, as well as hypersonic units being developed in several countries ", - said the first interlocutor of the agency.

    Another source noted that "to intercept such targets, the S-550 will include a long-range multifunctional radar capable of detecting warheads and space objects at an ultra-long range."

    The interlocutors clarified that in fact the S-550 will become a modification of the S-500 system , but with a specialization in intercepting ballistic and orbital targets at many times greater ranges and altitudes than Prometheus. At the same time, the interception of aerodynamic aerodynamic targets (aircraft, helicopters, drones) will be excluded from the tasks of the S-550.

    https://ria.ru/20211120/s-550-1759924322.html

    S-550 deserves it's own topic

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    Post  Big_Gazza Sat Nov 20, 2021 11:33 pm

    Reading between the lines, S-550 will be an enlarged S-500 with a bigger (or multistage) booster?  It sounds to be akin to a mobile satellite launcher, albeit for ASAT-ABM payloads.

    Yep, I like it. thumbsup

    Edit: S-550 Project logo has just been released...

    S-500 'Prometheus'  and S-550 missile systems - Page 8 Logo10

    Edit2: The Adeptus Administratum is pleased.

    S-500 'Prometheus'  and S-550 missile systems - Page 8 Chapte10

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    Post  GarryB Sun Nov 21, 2021 1:40 am

    This is why exo atmospheric interception is so very important. Once the warhead enters the atmosphere it can maneuver to such a large extent that it becomes extremely difficult for any SAM complex to intercept it.

    Actually ironically the opposite is actually true... the interceptor SAM will be climbing up towards the target... if if is a hypersonic manouvering target outside the atmosphere it would need to be serious big because it would be using rocket fuel and oxygen to manouver... which quadruples the weight of the fuel needed because it needs fuel and it needs the oxidiser to burn... not only that by weight it burns four times the mass per second because one quarter is the fuel and the remaining three quarters generate the oxygen for the fuel to burn... so it weighs four times more in fuel and it burns four times faster...

    Most manouvering hypersonic weapons like Zircon will never leave the atmosphere... that would only be ICBM and SLBM warheads...

    Manouvering in the atmosphere even a small control surface has a slipstream moving at enormous velocities which means a small deflection will apply an enormous force, but the g force energy of the turn will also be applied to the manouvering object.

    It is the enormous flight speed that means even a small turn of a few degrees makes it difficult to intercept... but while still in space with thruster rockets it can change its direction much more radically.

    Targets like satellites wont have the fuel to weight ratio to dodge anything and most ICBM and SLBM warhead in current western use only have fuel to move on target more precisely (MaRV), or none at all (MRV and MIRV).

    At the same time, the interception of aerodynamic aerodynamic targets (aircraft, helicopters, drones) will be excluded from the tasks of the S-550.

    So effectively the S-500 and S-550 are like PAC-2 and PAC-3 Patriot in that the former is for intercepting anything except the hardest ballistic targets while the latter is optimised for ballistic targets and is not much good for anything else... no wonder there wont be a naval version of the S-550.

    But interesting they didn't say there would be no naval S-500 system... which suggests the S-500 should be effective against hypersonic manouvering targets as well as long range conventional targets too.

    I think this S-500 thread can include the S-550 for now, unless we get an enormous amount of information about both system that requires separate threads.

    Edit: note I describe it as a PAC-3 type missile but only conceptually... if you want to compare performance wise it would be more like Standard SM-2 and SM-6 missiles of the navy... but obviously better.

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