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    anti Rogozin rant thread

    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Sun May 23, 2021 9:40 pm

    Scorpius wrote:You did not pay attention to other important things that Bloshenko said during his presentation....

    They are wasting time with that reusable bullshit

    Only thing that matters in chemical rocket department is Soyuz-5

    Once that is up and running they will have the building blocks for super-heavy rocket and hopefully all this other nonsense will fade away into oblivion

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    Post  kvs Mon May 24, 2021 12:18 am

    The payload and cost to launch for the reusable system will put Musk's Space X racket in its place.    I hope these plans pan out.


    Last edited by kvs on Mon May 24, 2021 3:32 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  PapaDragon Mon May 24, 2021 2:38 am

    kvs wrote:The payload and cost to launch for the reusable system will put Musk's Space X racket in its place. I hop they pan out.

    Aren't you the first person to shit on Musk for using those stupid reusable rockets?

    Price will be the same at best (and most definitely much bigger) so it will be just more time and money down the shitter just to soothe Trampoline Man's eternally bruised ego

    He should have just kept his fat dumb mouth shut back when he exposed himself as a moron and this shitshow would have been avoided

    As for this Russian SpaceX knockoff attempt hopefully it will go the way of Klipper and Mir-2 the moment Soyuz-5 is up and running

    Roskosmos is excellent a pretending their failed misbegotten projects never existed and letting memory of them fade away (not with me though) so we have some small room to be optimistic here


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    Post  GarryB Mon May 24, 2021 7:22 am

    If anyone can make it reusable and affordable it is the Russians or the Chinese.


    Aren't you the first person to shit on Musk for using those stupid reusable rockets?

    The concept is fine, to a degree, but the implementation and time scale are ridiculous from Musk.


    Roskosmos is excellent a pretending their failed misbegotten projects never existed and letting memory of them fade away (not with me though) so we have some small room to be optimistic here

    He who never fails never tries. Failure is a normal and in fact necessary part of stretching the envelope... the important part is to learn the correct lessons.

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    Post  Big_Gazza Mon May 24, 2021 10:56 am

    Special for Papadragon Laughing

    Rogozin promised "engineering miracles" in the space industry in the coming years

    source

    Roscosmos CEO noted that then people will wear T-shirts with the Roscosmos logo, not NASA

    MOSCOW, May 24. / TASS /. The idea of ​​domestic cosmonautics in society will change in the next two or three years, the industry is expecting "engineering miracles". This was announced by Dmitry Rogozin, General Director of Roscosmos, at the ninth international technology conference Startup Village.

    "Starting in 2023, Roskosmos is moving in waves to new space technology: we launch the Soyuz-5 rocket, the hydrogen Angara begins to fly, and others. The same engineering miracles appear that are sometimes so lacking in current life. In the next two or three years, events will take place that will turn the idea of ​​national cosmonautics upside down, "Rogozin said.

    According to the head of the state corporation, then on the T-shirts of people there will be the logo of Roscosmos, not NASA.

    Rogozin said in April that Roskosmos is on the verge of very important changes in the industry: a transition to new rocket and space technology is expected, and the start of lunar research.

    The Startup Village conference, which will be held for the ninth time this year, traditionally acts as a platform for discussing trends and ideas, in which startup founders, successful businessmen, investors, large technology corporations and government officials participate. Last year, in a new reality, the organizers held Startup Village online for the first time. The number of conference views exceeded 185 thousand on the website and more than 1.5 million on external resources.

    When the tee-shirts become available, let me know yer size and I'll send you one...  Laughing

    soz man, but I couldn't resist....

    anti Rogozin rant thread Rogo_s10

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    Post  flamming_python Mon May 24, 2021 11:59 am


    According to the head of the state corporation, then on the T-shirts of people there will be the logo of Roscosmos, not NASA.

    That he can actually achieve ahead of target.

    As for the rest, it will be moved back to 2035 or so come 2023.

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    kvs
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    Post  kvs Mon May 24, 2021 2:51 pm

    Some ninny is triggered by criticism of shyster Musk. Lame much.

    The price per kg to launch on this system is something Musk could never dream of achieving. Musk does not own the concept of
    reusability. Being a con man it is predictable that he would push gimmicks and make wild claims. But ninnies keep drinking his snake
    oil.

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    Post  kvs Mon May 24, 2021 2:52 pm

    flamming_python wrote:

    According to the head of the state corporation, then on the T-shirts of people there will be the logo of Roscosmos, not NASA.

    That he can actually achieve ahead of target.

    As for the rest, it will be moved back to 2035 or so come 2023.

    Waahh, waah.

    Try to make an actual informed criticism next time.

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    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Mon May 24, 2021 7:39 pm

    Big_Gazza wrote:Special for Papadragon Laughing
    Rogozin promised "engineering miracles" in the space industry in the coming years ...

    Promise?

    Well who saw that coming, that will solve everything  lol1



    Big_Gazza wrote:...When the tee-shirts become available, let me know yer size and I'll send you one...  Laughing

    soz man, but I couldn't resist....

    anti Rogozin rant thread Rogo_s10

    I heard about Gay Pride parades but I had no idea they now have Dumb Loser Pride parades and with appropriate attire as well thumbsup

    I will pass on participation in both so no need to waste money



    flamming_python wrote:
    According to the head of the state corporation, then on the T-shirts of people there will be the logo of Roscosmos, not NASA.
    That he can actually achieve ahead of target....

    He could have achieved it long ago if he had just kept his dumb fat flat-earther mouth shut

    Who the hell would now want to wear a t-shirt that can be associated with him?



    kvs wrote:...The price per kg to launch on this system is something Musk could never dream of achieving. ...

    I am not seeing Russia achieving anything close to Musk's numbers let alone this latest fantasy



    kvs wrote:...Musk does not own the concept of reusability....
     
    But you and other fanboys are now all saying that space program is a waste of money so why should Russia bother with reusable rockets (along with everything else)?

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    lancelot
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    Post  lancelot Thu Jun 03, 2021 11:06 pm

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    Post  lancelot Fri Jun 04, 2021 2:24 am

    He does not mention a lot of things Roskosmos is researching but then again the video is one year old by now. I just found it interesting the things he talked about are the things they talked in that article with the interview with Rogozin like the capsule and science module. Neither of which is ready still.

    The video is inaccurate in a lot of things I noticed.

    From what I understand that quack of anti-gravity engine isn't being funded by Roskosmos. Although NASA Eagleworks did in fact spend resources testing the EmDrive...

    Soyuz (both launcher and capsule) are NOT the same as the Soviet version even if externally they look much the same. The control avionics are totally different and the engines were redesign with higher performance versions. This is obvious for anyone who looks at the payload delivery capabilities of the older and newer rockets.

    Because Russia has Soyuz it did not need to design something like Falcon 9 to begin with. Falcon 9 Heavy looks impressive on paper in terms of payload delivered but it hasn't sold in part because the payload shroud is basically the same size as in the Falcon 9. Also most payloads don't need the Falcon 9 Heavy capacity. The Falcon 9 FT has enough performance it can compete with the Proton not the Soyuz. Falcon 9 FT has around twice the payload capacity of the Falcon 9 1.0.

    To be honest I agreed with a lot of what he said though.
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    Post  kvs Fri Jun 04, 2021 3:07 am

    Musk is the con-artist quack who claims that anti-matter engines are feasible. Making it in particle accelerators in quantities of a handful
    of anti-particles is another universe from deploying it as technology.

    As for people not toeing the physics establishment line, that is what research is supposed to be. Instead, we have what amounts to
    religious dogma and monks affirming it day in day out in their ivory tower monasteries. Spending money on genuine experimental dead ends instead
    of circle jerk affirmation of existing dogma is self-evidently the better option.

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    Post  Scorpius Fri Jun 04, 2021 7:07 pm

    lancelot wrote:

    To be honest I agreed with a lot of what he said though.

    1. Dmitry Olegovich Rogozin-comes from the family of the hereditary military Oleg Konstantinovich Rogozin, Lieutenant General, professor and Doctor of technical Sciences, whose great-grandfather was Major General Nikolai Mitkevich-Zholtok, police chief of Moscow in 1908-1915, in 1918-1920 — Chief of staff of the State Guard of the Russian Empire, one of the leaders of the Armed Forces of the South of Russia.

    2. Dmitry Rogozin in August 1991 participated in the events of the "Putsch" on the side of the White House, led a group of volunteer defenders of the Supreme Soviet of the RSFSR. In May-June 1992, he was a volunteer soldier in the armed conflict in Transnistria.

    3. Dmitry Rogozin graduated with honors from the Economics Department of the University of Marxism-Leninism under the Moscow City Committee of the CPSU in 1988. In 1996, at the Faculty of Philosophy of Moscow State University, he defended his thesis for the degree of Candidate of Philosophical Sciences on the topic "The Russian question and its impact on national and international security". In 1999, he also defended his thesis for the degree of Doctor of Philosophy on the topic "Problems of national security of Russia at the turn of the XXI century". In 2016, he defended his thesis at the N. G. Naval Academy. Kuznetsov's dissertation for the degree of Doctor of Technical Sciences in the specialty " Theory of armament, military-technical policy, weapons system».

    4. Dmitry Rogozin is known for his opposition activities, as the chairman of the regional branch of the Great Russia party. As chairman of the Rodina party until 2006.
    In 2003 and 2004-Deputy Chairman of the State Duma. From January 2008 to December 2011-Representative of the Russian Federation to the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) in Brussels, Ambassador Extraordinary and Plenipotentiary of Russia.

    5. Dmitry Rogozin from December 23, 2011 to May 18, 2018 - Deputy Prime Minister of the Russian Federation, Chairman of the Board of the Military-Industrial Commission of the Russian Federation, the Supervisory Board of the state Corporation "Roscosmos", the Supervisory Board of the Foundation for Advanced Research, the Marine Board under the Government of the Russian Federation, the State Commission for the Development of the Arctic, the State Border Commission, the Commission for Export Control of the Russian Federation. Chairman of the Board of Trustees of the Russian Military Historical Society from 2013 to 2019.

    6. Dmitry Rogozin an expert in small arms, a collector, has a patent for an invention in the field of small arms. Master of Sports in Handball. Actively engaged in tennis, basketball, practical shooting. Enjoys spearfishing, motorcycle riding. Private helicopter pilot since 2015.

    In general, based on these publicly available facts, I can say with complete confidence that the video is a piece of shit, and its author is a propaganda stupid asshole.

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    Post  lancelot Fri Jun 04, 2021 7:45 pm

    So because his father had technical expertise, Rogozin is supposed to be an expert? My father can repair the engine on his car and I can't change a tire on mine without some effort.

    He's had a decade and to be honest I can't think of one thing the Russian industry has developed since other than building the spaceport. Which he bungled to a degree Putin had to get himself involved personally.
    Neither Soyuz 2 nor Angara were developed under his watch. Angara still does not have a dedicated pad. Serial production of Angara and replacement of Proton still has not happened.
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    Post  kvs Fri Jun 04, 2021 7:56 pm

    lancelot wrote:So because his father had technical expertise, Rogozin is supposed to be an expert? My father can repair the engine on his car and I can't change a tire on mine without some effort.

    He's had a decade and to be honest I can't think of one thing the Russian industry has developed since other than building the spaceport. Which he bungled to a degree Putin had to get himself involved personally.
    Neither Soyuz 2 nor Angara were developed under his watch.

    Rogozin has proven his management credentials. All the sniveling critics on this forum that bitch at him are full of shit.

    I will take Rogozin the "non expert" over some expert who is an incompetent manager. Recall that Berezovsky was
    an applied mathematician before he became a gangster oligarch with a trail of dead bodies behind him.



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    Post  lancelot Fri Jun 04, 2021 7:59 pm

    Except Rogozin is a failure as a manager too.

    The Chinese started afterwards and have put the Long March 7 and Long March 5 into service.
    They have built equatorial launch pads at Hainan island. They have built new production facilities.

    The Chinese had to develop new engines. Not rehash the RD-170 into the RD-180 and RD-190.
    I can't blame Rogozin for what happened in the 1990s and 2000s but the last decade is his baby.
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    Post  Scorpius Fri Jun 04, 2021 8:02 pm

    lancelot wrote:So because his father had technical expertise, Rogozin is supposed to be an expert? My father can repair the engine on his car and I can't change a tire on mine without some effort.
    You obviously don't know what it's like to grow up in a family of engineers in Russia. In addition, as I have already written, Dmitry Rogozin himself defended his dissertation and received the title of Doctor of Technical Sciences.

    He's had a decade and to be honest I can't think of one thing the Russian industry has developed since other than building the spaceport. Which he bungled to a degree Putin had to get himself involved personally.
    Neither Soyuz 2 nor Angara were developed under his watch. Angara still does not have a dedicated pad. Serial production of Angara and replacement of Proton still has not happened.
    None of these problems are related to Rogozin. As for his personal achievements, first of all, this is the longest accident-free series of space launches in the history of modern Russia, and secondly, a lot of investigations of embezzlement of Roscosmos funds, for which criminal trials have been opened and the perpetrators have already been arrested. It was under Rogozin that the backlog in the construction schedule of the Vostochny cosmodrome was eliminated. It is with him that the Nauka module is finally being prepared to be sent into orbit. It was under him that they finally began to formulate long-term goals for Russian cosmonautics, expressed in specific programs and (most importantly) in the allocation of funds for their development.

    By the way, Rogozin did not have any "decade". He was appointed head of Roscosmos only in 2018. Before that, he did not manage this organization.

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    Post  Scorpius Fri Jun 04, 2021 8:03 pm

    lancelot wrote:Except Rogozin is a failure as a manager too.

    The Chinese started afterwards and have put the Long March 7 and Long March 5 into service.
    They have built equatorial launch pads at Hainan island. They have built new production facilities.

    The Chinese had to develop new engines.

    Tell me the amount of funding for China's space program.

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    Post  lancelot Fri Jun 04, 2021 8:24 pm

    Scorpius wrote:You obviously don't know what it's like to grow up in a family of engineers in Russia. In addition, as I have already written, Dmitry Rogozin himself defended his dissertation and received the title of Doctor of Technical Sciences.

    Which he got at the same time he was Deputy Prime Minister. I have lived enough inside academia to know what effect something like that can have.
    I would hope Russian academia would be better than that but I would not bet on it.

    Elon's father was an electromechanical engineer. Is he an engineer? No. He's got undergraduate diplomas on business economics and physics.
    This is the person Rogozin dismissed at one point as not a specialist. Well he isn't, but Rogozin is even less so. Rogozin did his undergraduate diplomas in journalism and economics.

    Scorpius wrote:None of these problems are related to Rogozin. As for his personal achievements, first of all, this is the longest accident-free series of space launches in the history of modern Russia, and secondly, a lot of investigations of embezzlement of Roscosmos funds, for which criminal trials have been opened and the perpetrators have already been arrested. It was under Rogozin that the backlog in the construction schedule of the Vostochny cosmodrome was eliminated. It is with him that the Nauka module is finally being prepared to be sent into orbit. It was under him that they finally began to formulate long-term goals for Russian cosmonautics, expressed in specific programs and (most importantly) in the allocation of funds for their development.

    By the way, Rogozin did not have any "decade". He was appointed head of Roscosmos only in 2018. Before that, he did not manage this organization.

    He was the Deputy Prime Minister of Russia for Defense and Space Industry 2011-2018. So yes he was responsible.
    People blamed Medvedev for these failures of the space industry then so why not him? He was more directly responsible.

    As for there being no launch failures since 2018 when he was made head of Roscosmos. Well. Roscosmos hasn't launched any new rocket type since either!
    If you don't innovate, sure, you'll have way less chances of failures.
    The fraction of Proton launches versus Soyuz launches has also gone down and Soyuz has historically been a more reliable rocket.
    Is this a good thing? Not when Proton has conceded the commercial satellite launch segment it had with International Launch Services (ILS) to Falcon 9.

    In the late 1990s ILS was getting the brunt of the commercial satellite launch segment taking market share away from both US and European launch providers.
    Everyone thought the segment would be dominated by Russia over the next decade. Then Russia took forever to develop Angara and neither reduced costs further nor improved launch reliability.
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    Post  dino00 Fri Jun 04, 2021 9:27 pm

    Was Rogozin that pushed for a super-holding in hypersonic systems, he got what he wanted with Raduga and NPO Mashinostroyena being under the same umbrella.
    Russia wouldn't be so comfortable in the hypersonic lead if it wasn't him.
    He also called for a Russian DARPA, we got the Advanced Research foundation.
    Russia owes a lot to him.

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    Post  lancelot Fri Jun 04, 2021 9:53 pm

    Scorpius wrote:
    lancelot wrote:Roscosmos hasn't launched any new rocket type since either!
    If you don't innovate, sure, you'll have way less chances of failures.
    Angara-A5 was launched in December 2020.
    Is it no longer new enough for you?

    There was an Angara-A5 launch in December 2014 as well.
    Like I said Rogozin did no new rocket type launches yet.

    Scorpius wrote:
    lancelot wrote:Not when Proton has conceded the commercial satellite launch segment it had with International Launch Services (ILS) to Falcon 9.
    You must bring here some data that supports your statements, or do not use unsubstantiated statements. The space launch market? If this market existed, no commercial launch from 1990 to 2012 would have been carried out on any carrier rocket other than Russian ones. However, there were many rocket launches that cost many times more than a Proton, Zenith, or Soyuz launch. In addition, there is no struggle for the market. The Americans announced a complete ban on satellite launches on Russian missiles. Do you consider these competitive market methods?

    ILS launched dozens of missions with Proton. ILS did more commercial satellite launches than European and US launch services at that time. Starsem also did several Soyuz launches.

    You seem to think launch price is the only thing which matters in the market. But there are other factors as well. Insurance cost is a major factor and Proton has traditionally had higher insurance costs than Ariane 5. Because of launch failures. Also worse scheduling availability. That is why Ariane 5 survived for so long as it did. Falcon 9 basically killed both Proton and Ariane 5 commercial launches. This is fact. Just look at the launches of Proton, Ariane 5, and Falcon 9.

    The American ban on Russian satellite launches has no impact on other clients. Eutelsat for example used to launch satellites on Proton and Ariane 5 and now they use Falcon 9 as well.
    Heck Turkmenistan launched a satellite on Falcon 9 with a European satellite bus.

    AFAIK US ITAR sanctions on Russian space launches only started in 2021. i.e. this year.

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    Post  miketheterrible Fri Jun 04, 2021 10:55 pm

    And Elon Musk wouldn't be anywhere if he didn't get the $3B of subsidies and free tech from NASA.

    Rogozin is rather new at roscosmos and is fixing the fuckuos from 1999 till now.  I know for a fact you aren't even half the man he is.  I would like to know your credentials.

    He is repairing a company that was a husk.  It takes longer than you think.  2018 till now he has been in roscosmos. And there will be 4 angaras this year with two launches and two early next year.  Pretty good considering the organization was barely alive with embezzlements everywhere in the rocket industry till 2018 and so many people ended up going to jail.

    As said, for America to be competitive, they ban shit.

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    Post  PapaDragon Fri Jun 04, 2021 11:51 pm

    Scorpius wrote:...Dmitry Rogozin himself defended his dissertation and received the title of Doctor of Technical Sciences...

    Oh suuuuuure, I can already see him burning the midnight oil as he is hitting the books lol1

    Totally not a bogus dissertation Razz



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    Post  kvs Sat Jun 05, 2021 12:46 am

    miketheterrible wrote:And Elon Musk wouldn't be anywhere if he didn't get the $3B of subsidies and free tech from NASA.


    That would be per year from the US government. Not a one time windfall from NASA. Musk is a US MIC contractor.

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    Post  thegopnik Sat Jun 05, 2021 1:18 am

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