You know when Russia is being given goodwill by the US for any reason there's something sinister afoot
Or are they running away with their tail between their legs declaring victory and high fiving each other?
The pipeline is not fully operational yet. In fact, for the West, it is a lever. Putin wants to see Nord Stream 2 working. Therefore, he probably will not want to go over to the invasion of Ukraine.
Except the pipeline is built. All the Russians really care about is that they can bypass the Ukraine if they need to, but if the customers want the gas to go through the Ukraine there has never been very much Russia could do about that.
Russia can now say you can have cheap NSII gas with no transit fees going to Ukraine or Poland or the Baltic states depending on which pipe it goes through, or you can pay more and get gas that might get stolen but even if it isn't it will cost you more because of said transit fees.
We supply the gas but you can choose which pipes it goes through and what risk you are prepared to take.
This sums up Ukraine perfectly.
Where nazi ideology belongs...
The Ukraine on the other hand is a country and needs to find a way out of the gutter and some way forward... it seems when push comes to shove the west only wants to get the Ukraine into a fight with Russia for its own entertainment... I don't expect their current government to wake up but next election perhaps some parties that realise that better relations with Russia are essential for the Ukraine to recover.
Here is how I summarize the results of the video-meeting:
What Putin gets:
- Promise that NATO will not expand Eastward
- Promise that there will be no sanctions on NS2
- Promise that Russia will not be cut out from SWIFT
What Biden gets:
- Promise that Russia will not invade 404
What country 404 definitely gets:
- Less military assistance and weapons
- No Russian gas transited after 2024
- Independence... and a feeling of being "thrown under the bus" if above promises are broken
Basically, Putin maintained the status quo which means:
- Relative peace (important for Russia's development)
- Further degradation of 404's economy
Not bad for a day's work for Vladimir Vladimirovich.
And when you consider that an unprovoked Russian invasion was never on the cards and was only something the west made up itself then Russia got what it wanted and the US got nothing at all.
That's a speech for domestic public. Must feed the americans with propaganda once in a while or they die.
They are well aware that US won't move for Ukraine but must play the strong guy with cheap talk.
The standard to become a senator is not that high, and there seems to be a high quotient of nutters doing that job... remember that bimbo from Alaska that Tina Fey was so good at pretending to be... I can see the Russians from my house...
That level of stupid.
And of course the media will give them a voice...
And the Russians play their part in the play - always the same. When will the loop break? It appears not in my lifetime at least.
What are you dribbling on about?
Russia and the US have not been speaking... now they are. Because HATO kicked out Russian diplomats Russia closed its office with HATO so there is no communication with HATO except through the media.
This is all a natural consequence of not being able to talk... but you see it as a defeat for Russia... Putin folds again...
I'll summarize the last 10 or so pages of discussion: "If Ukraine is going to attempt to take the LDNR by force, Russia is going to respond*"
The 'West' has no leverage on Russia anymore. Russia has resources - they do not. Everything else simply requires time to re-create.
All the cards are on the table... the west fears Russia will invade and do a bit of regime change in the Ukraine to undo their coup... and will react violently if they try, but have said if Kiev tries to take the Donbass by force they will not help them with that. Russia has said it is not interested in attacking the Ukraine but if Kiev does something stupid then it needs to be prepared to intervene if needed. Kiev has said they think they can take the rebels but know they can't if the Russians help them.
The first video meeting with the US, Putin said Russia was not going to invade the Ukraine without provocation.... note Biden didn't say Russia already has troops in the Crimea and the Donbass which the US considers the Ukraine... funny that...
Now they decide they need another meeting... and Atlasclub claims Russia is folding and the west has won again... which is strange because really not much has actually changed... it is still all down to Zelensky and if he is stupid enough to cross the red line of attacking the Donbass region or not... he now knows Russia will get involved if he does and he also know HATO wont get involved if he does.
Sounds like on balance he wont.
I guess that's one way to make good PR
No complaints on my end
With his current rating he needs a win...
I'm surprised they didn't learn from Georgia's experience.
Case is not closed. USA are still sending weapons to fuel the war in donvass and nato still pushing for helping Ukraine. They won't stop until Russia attacks, they are like parasits.
That is just kickbacks to the US MIC... the US taxpayer gets to pay for that stuff and the Ukrainians get to use it against Ukrainians... the US does not care.
Of course some of it might be sold to groups for top dollar too on the black market and another fire might destroy the evidence that half of what was there was not there...
Well the thing is that Russia won't attack
Why the hell would they? Everything now works in their favour
They never had any intention of starting anything... that was all in Americas head.
This is why USA and EU want Russia to attack, current situation where Russia just has to sit on it's ass and get everything it wants doesn’t suit them
But what the EU and US want doesn't change the fact that that is the situation.
A- Country 404 attacks and tries to conquer/subdue Donbass:
In which case Russian forces will intervene in a number of possible fashions, including:
- Stand-off strikes with missiles and air-power and allow DNR/LNR regain the remaining parts of their oblasts, followed up with official Moscow recognition of the 2 Republics
- Continue to march and liberate the rest of Russian speaking south and east (Kharkov. Odessa etc.) and divide 404 into 2 (Novorossia and Banderistan)
- March into Kiev and establish a pro-Russia government there that will transform Ukraine into a loose federation of semi-independent Oblasts
Agree but think only the first option is likely... Russia didn't regime change Suckarse milli vanilli, and I doubt he wants to save Kiev.
I think it would be exactly the same as South Ossetia or even different in the sense that the Donbass forces wont need Russian troops and it would be more like Russian special forces and air power supporting Syria government forces against terrorists, and when the fighting is over like in South Ossetia they will recognise the new region as not being part of Georgia (Ukraine) any more and open diplomatic channels and trade with these new regions... which will help their economies enormously... without charity or freebies...
B- If country 404 is given NATO membership and/or NATO establishes bases there:
This is an absolutely unacceptable trespassing of Russia's redlines. It causes an immediate danger to the motherland. Russia will launch a war that is far more dangerous than any of the above confrontations.
NATO/USA know this, they are not stupid or suicidal. That is why they have not tried to get NATO into 404 despite all the request of the junta in Kiev.
I still don't think Putin would invade, I think he would just openly state Russian theatre nuclear weapons are going to now be aimed no just at the Ukraine, but also Brussels and London and Bonn and Paris and completely cut Ukraine off because there is still trade going on there.
Some nuclear armed Zircons in Kaliningrad, and other measures like banning HATO countries from using the new northern sea route they are creating.