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    Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #4

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Fri 29 Jul 2022, 12:17

    Nice idea but it isn't going to happen.

    The Moon is nice and relatively close and a good place to learn to be self sufficient.

    Technologies like 3D printing hold enormous promise... you could have machines that grind up moon dust and moon rock that can be used to make shelters from local materials... some sort of polymer or other material that binds it up and makes it solid like rock with an outer covering in case of any dust storms or incoming material from the sky.

    Boring machines could dig tunnels deeper under the rock and the spoils could be used for above ground structures where needed for even better protection from solar and space radiation and solid matter like meteoroids.

    Operations on Mars will be easier despite the much greater distances because assuming some sort of reliable power source there is atmosphere and material for various things too... actually mining Mars would be cheaper and easier than mining the asteroids because the asteroids are so far away and so far apart... if asteroid fields looked like the ones in movies and documentaries the distance out from the sun would mean there is more material than in all the planets combined to create a ring that wide and deep around the sun.

    The real asteroid belt standing on a decent sized asteroid... and there are some big ones.... you would not be able to see any other asteroid in the field... they would be too small and too far away... if they were as dense as the asteroid belts shown in Star Wars they would have collapsed together and formed planets with that much matter and those planets would be huge.

    Getting a manned station on the moon would be a good first step and the technology needed to operate self sufficiently without every little thing needing to be sent up and brought back would be good experience for longer trips of greater distance.

    If it worked I would say a long range remote control mission with a space tug to one of Jupiters or Saturns moons would be an interesting experiment too... testing instruments in extreme gravity and radiation fields would be valuable and returning it to earth orbit so it can attach to ROC and be examined and tested for damage and fatigue would be a useful base of information for future missions to those far away places.

    The increased flight speed should shorten flight times and make even return trips from Pluto and Charon and perhaps even objects in the ort cloud would be possible.

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    Post  thegopnik Fri 29 Jul 2022, 19:35

    I want to still be alive when they put a person on Mars. More space tug projects please.

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    Post  Hole Fri 29 Jul 2022, 20:13

    Has the person to be alive?  clown

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    Post  Big_Gazza Sat 30 Jul 2022, 03:38

    Hole wrote:Has the person to be alive?  clown

    If not, the Holy Musk, God of Exceptionalist Innovation, could do it tomorrow.  The rotted corpse of the "pioneer" would safely touch down on the Martian wasteland, for about 3 microseconds, before the impact vapourises him/her into a cloud of dust and steam.

    Actually, I think this will be the fate of anyone dumb enough to ever step foot onto a future hypothetical Space-ecks manned Mars misison. Their ideas for "Red Dragon" is utter nonsense and don't get me started on that sub-orbital troop carrier he's trying (and failing) to build for the Pentagram Razz

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    Post  Scorpius Sat 06 Aug 2022, 20:49

    For those who were interested in the differences between naphthyl and TS-1.


    naphthyl:
    void specific thrust impulse, m/s: 3 855.3
    oxidizer excess coefficient: 0.90
    Fuel density at 20 oC, kg/m3: 833

    Kerosene TS-1:
    void specific thrust impulse, m/s: 3 845.5
    oxidizer excess coefficient: 0.90
    Fuel density at 20 oC, kg/m3: 755


    https://www.energia.ru/ktt/archive/2017/04-2017/04-05.pdf

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    Post  kvs Sat 06 Aug 2022, 23:09

    Thanks for the information. Fuel density difference of 833 vs 755 kg/m3 is substantial and demonstrates that naphtil is not a
    a kerosene but a different hydrocarbon.

    Fuel tanks with naphtil can be 10% smaller which saves on weight or alternatively you get more total thrust and thus higher payload
    out of an identical rocket. The lower carbon deposits on engines is a big deal as well.

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    Post  Scorpius Sun 07 Aug 2022, 00:09

    Russia has developed a technology for creating closed ecosystems for space based on the methane processing cycle:
    https://www.energia.ru/ktt/archive/2021/04-2021/04-07.pdf

    Russian manned Soyuz spacecraft use orientation engines repeatedly:
    https://www.energia.ru/ktt/archive/2021/03-2021/03-04.pdf

    The fundamental problem of developing high-temperature converter power systems for promising nuclear tugs (including for the Martian flight complex) has been solved:
    https://www.energia.ru/ktt/archive/2021/03-2021/03-05.pdf

    Experience and prospects of launches of small spacecraft from the Plesetsk cosmodrome:
    https://www.energia.ru/ktt/archive/2021/03-2021/03-06.pdf

    Calculation of ballistic flight path options for a manned expedition to Mars (2049-2050):
    https://www.energia.ru/ktt/archive/2021/03-2021/03-08.pdf

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    Big_Gazza
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    Post  Big_Gazza Sun 07 Aug 2022, 03:21

    kvs wrote:Thanks for the information.   Fuel density difference of 833 vs 755 kg/m3 is substantial and demonstrates that naphtil is not a
    a kerosene but a different hydrocarbon.

    Fuel tanks with naphtil can be 10% smaller which saves on weight or alternatively you get more total thrust and thus higher payload
    out of an identical rocket.   The lower carbon deposits on engines is a big deal as well.  

    Very interesting. Naphil density is nearly as high as Syntin (851 kg/m3), a synthetic kerosense analog that the Soviets used to boost lift capability of the Soyuz-U2 but was discontinued post-collapse due to the high costs of manufacture. I wonder if Roskosmos will go ahead and squeeze extra performance out of the Soyuz-2 booster by re-proportioning the fuel and oxidser tanks?

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    Post  Big_Gazza Sun 07 Aug 2022, 03:24

    Scorpius wrote:

    energia.ru is blocked here in the Great Southern Penal Colony... angry
    kvs
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    Post  kvs Sun 07 Aug 2022, 04:57

    Big_Gazza wrote:
    kvs wrote:Thanks for the information.   Fuel density difference of 833 vs 755 kg/m3 is substantial and demonstrates that naphtil is not a
    a kerosene but a different hydrocarbon.

    Fuel tanks with naphtil can be 10% smaller which saves on weight or alternatively you get more total thrust and thus higher payload
    out of an identical rocket.   The lower carbon deposits on engines is a big deal as well.  

    Very interesting.  Naphil density is nearly as high as Syntin (851 kg/m3), a synthetic kerosense analog that the Soviets used to boost lift capability of the Soyuz-U2 but was discontinued post-collapse due to the high costs of manufacture. I wonder if Roskosmos will go ahead and squeeze extra performance out of the Soyuz-2 booster by re-proportioning the fuel and oxidser tanks?

    Napthil must be a result from the research that resulted in Syntin.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syntin

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerosene

    I think the only link to kerosene is that it is some sort of cycloalkane species as this class in the form of naphthenes is part of the kerosene mixture.
    Hence the name naphtil.

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    lyle6
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    Post  lyle6 Sun 07 Aug 2022, 05:50

    Big_Gazza wrote:

    If not, the Holy Musk, God of Exceptionalist Innovation, could do it tomorrow.  The rotted corpse of the "pioneer" would safely touch down on the Martian wasteland, for about 3 microseconds, before the impact vapourises him/her into a cloud of dust and steam.

    Actually, I think this will be the fate of anyone dumb enough to ever step foot onto a future hypothetical Space-ecks manned Mars misison.  Their ideas for "Red Dragon" is utter nonsense and don't get me started on that sub-orbital troop carrier he's trying (and failing) to build for the Pentagram Razz
    IDK, sounds like a good pitch for a DoorDash for cannibals. Razz
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    Post  GarryB Sun 07 Aug 2022, 09:42

    energia.ru is blocked here in the Great Southern Penal Colony...

    Same in NZ, but...

    Folder with PDF files via proxy server

    List of proxy servers you can use (and their current speed):

    http://free-proxy.cz/en/web-proxylist/country/RU/all/ping/all

    Choose one and put the blocked address in the search box and click the button to launch... Smile

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    thegopnik
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    Post  thegopnik Sun 07 Aug 2022, 20:21

    Scorpius wrote:Russia has developed a technology for creating closed ecosystems for space based on the methane processing cycle:
    https://www.energia.ru/ktt/archive/2021/04-2021/04-07.pdf

    Russian manned Soyuz spacecraft use orientation engines repeatedly:
    https://www.energia.ru/ktt/archive/2021/03-2021/03-04.pdf

    The fundamental problem of developing high-temperature converter power systems for promising nuclear tugs (including for the Martian flight complex) has been solved:
    https://www.energia.ru/ktt/archive/2021/03-2021/03-05.pdf

    Experience and prospects of launches of small spacecraft from the Plesetsk cosmodrome:
    https://www.energia.ru/ktt/archive/2021/03-2021/03-06.pdf

    Calculation of ballistic flight path options for a manned expedition to Mars (2049-2050):
    https://www.energia.ru/ktt/archive/2021/03-2021/03-08.pdf


    pdfs wont open cry
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    Post  kvs Sun 07 Aug 2022, 20:49

    Get them via Garry's proxy link and they open fine.

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    Post  thegopnik Sun 07 Aug 2022, 23:04

    read some of the pdfs briefly and it seems a 7-15 megawatt MPD is needed for a manned mars mission, in other words let russia progress in nuclear minautarization technology

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    Post  Big_Gazza Tue 09 Aug 2022, 12:23

    Russia’s Fregat booster delivers Iranian satellite into orbit — Roscosmos

    source

    Iran sends a big thank you to the spineless South Korean cucks who got onboard the Ukropi war hysteria and pulled out from launching the 2nd CAS-500 satellite, leading to Roskosmos offering the slot to the Islamic Republic.  Razz

    A Soyuz-2.1b carrier rocket with a Fregat booster carrying an Iranian Khayyam satellite blasted off from the Baikonur spaceport in Kazakhstan at 08:52 a.m. Moscow time on Tuesday

    A Soyuz-2.1b carrier rocket with a Fregat booster carrying an Iranian Khayyam satellite and also 16 Russian nanosatellites as a hosted payload blasted off from the Baikonur spaceport in Kazakhstan at 08:52 a.m. Moscow time on Tuesday.

    As the Russian space agency specified, the Soyuz-2.1b carrier rocket and the Fregat booster also orbited 16 Russian nanosatellites created by the country’s leading universities, businesses and non-profit organizations. The space vehicles put into orbit included CubeSX-HSE-2, Monitor-1, UTMN, CYCLOPS, Siren, KAI-1, Kuzbass-300, Skoltech-B1, Skoltech-B2, Polytech Universe-1, Polytech Universe-2, Vizard, Geoscan-Edelweis, MIET-AIS, ISOI and ReshUCube nanosatellites.

    Iran gets first data from satellite launched from Baikonur spaceport — IRNA

    Bird is in orbit  thumbsup   Eat shit Murica and Zionistan   clown

    source

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    Post  GarryB Wed 10 Aug 2022, 10:49

    Western sources trying to claim Russia is so desperate for good quality intel that they have launched this Iranian satellite early for their own use and will hand it over when they are done.

    Iran responded by saying that was made up BS and they are using the satellite themselves for monitoring water and other things in their own territory...

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    Post  Big_Gazza Sat 13 Aug 2022, 03:13

    Roscosmos presents a new Russian orbital station at the Army-2022 forum

    source

    MOSCOW, 12 August. /TASS/. The layout of the promising Russian Orbital Station (ROS) will be presented to the participants and guests of the Army-2022 International Military-Technical Forum for the first time. This was reported to journalists in the press service of Roscosmos on Friday.

    "The layout of the new Russian orbital station will be shown to the public for the first time in the VIP-3 pavilion of the state corporation Roscosmos at the Army-2022 International Military-Technical Forum, which will be held from August 15 to 21, 2022 at the Patriot Congress and Exhibition Center in Kubinka near Moscow ", - noted in the state corporation.

    As clarified in Roscosmos, the booth of the Energia Rocket and Space Corporation will provide additional information about the RSS, the preliminary design of which is currently underway.

    ....

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    Post  Big_Gazza Sat 13 Aug 2022, 03:15

    TsENKI at the Army-22 forum

    TsENKI JSC will take part in the Army-22 international forum, which will be held from 15 to 21 August 2022 at the Patriot Exhibition and Convention Center in Kubinka.

    As part of the joint exposition of Roscosmos, TsENKI will present a model of the launch complex for Angara launch vehicles, which is being built at the Vostochny cosmodrome. On the layout, forum guests will be able to see the launch pad, oxygen and nitrogen process units, lightning rods, a centralized facility and other facilities.

    Nice pic of the intended launch pad and affiliated infrastructure thumbsup

    Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #4 - Page 33 I83tze10

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    Post  Big_Gazza Sat 13 Aug 2022, 03:19

    The company "Information Satellite Systems" named after Academician M.F. Reshetnev "started developing a new spacecraft" Express-AMU4 ".

    The telecommunications satellite will be based on the Express-1000 platform. The payload will also be created in the Reshetnev company. Representatives of ISS and the customer, the state enterprise Space Communications (SE KS), intend to discuss in detail the layout of the Express-AMU4 satellite at a meeting at the end of August.

    “We understand, especially now, the importance of continuing to build up the orbital constellation and localize the services of the RSCC in Russia,” said Evgeny Nesterov, General Director of ISS. “It is necessary to ensure the reliable operation of the space system.”

    With the help of the new spacecraft, satellite communications and broadcasting services will be provided not only in the European part of Russia, but also in the countries of Europe, the Middle East, North Africa, South America and part of North America.

    The life of the satellite will be at least 15 years. Express-AMU4 will be the first 100% Russian commercial spacecraft created as part of absolute import substitution and the struggle for the technological sovereignty of our country.

    It will quite a milestone for Russia to field 100% indigenous commsats and break the last remaining dependence of Western space-rated electronics. No more need for pressurised vessels that limit the lifetime, no more threat of spiteful sanctions BS. thumbsup

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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Sat 13 Aug 2022, 04:40

    kvs wrote:

    So the Russian "state planning" approach makes more sense since it leaves the government which is the source of all the money for
    the MIC in charge.   No corrupt games and buying and selling of politicians for profits.   The Russian taxpayer saves and Russia
    follows a stable mode of operation proven by the experience of the USSR.   I would love to see exotic weapons systems make a
    come back.   No grossly inflated prices means that they become affordable again.  

    in short, war times require the war economy. And Russia is at war same as in 41. Even some Ukrops fight for Bandera Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil

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    Post  franco Mon 15 Aug 2022, 12:57


    Roscosmos for the first time showed the layout of the Russian orbital station

    RSC Energia is currently developing a draft design of the station, which is planned to be deployed in two stages.


    FULL ARTICLE:
    https://tvzvezda-ru.translate.goog/news/20228151023-wd8Nh.html?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-GB&_x_tr_pto=nui

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    Post  lancelot Tue 16 Aug 2022, 00:26

    kvs wrote:Thanks for the information.   Fuel density difference of 833 vs 755 kg/m3 is substantial and demonstrates that naphtil is not a
    a kerosene but a different hydrocarbon.

    Fuel tanks with naphtil can be 10% smaller which saves on weight or alternatively you get more total thrust and thus higher payload
    out of an identical rocket.   The lower carbon deposits on engines is a big deal as well.  

    I have the exact same thought as you on this. It is also possible to use chilled propellants to boost thrust and densify fuel i.e. more fuel mass in similar size fuel tanks. The SpaceX guys copied that on the latest Falcon 9 rockets, it was used originally in Soyuz-U2 I think.

    This is another proof of the ressurgence of the Russian petroleum products industry after getting kicked up a notch in the latest decade.
    In the 1970s the US also considered using JP-7 as fuel for a rocket spaceplane instead of JP-4 or RP-1. It works, is also denser, but requires more advanced refining capabilities to separate the correct hydrocarbons. There was also research into boron doped fuel but it is a mess.

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    Post  Big_Gazza Tue 16 Aug 2022, 12:02

    Some better quality pics of the ROSS station model from Army-2022:

    Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #4 - Page 33 Army-210

    Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #4 - Page 33 Army-211

    Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #4 - Page 33 Army-212

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    Post  Scorpius Thu 25 Aug 2022, 11:49

    Firing tests of the RD-171MV rocket engine designed for the Soyuz-5 rocket have been successfully completed. This is stated in the message of Roscosmos, distributed on Thursday.

    "The NPO Energomash (part of the Roscosmos State Corporation) has successfully completed fire tests of the RD-171MV finishing engine designed for the promising Soyuz-5 launch vehicle," Roscosmos said in a Telegram channel.

    As specified in the state corporation, the RD-171MV finishing engine is the most powerful liquid rocket engine in the world. During nine firing tests, he worked for 1,461 seconds without being removed from the test stand. All tests were carried out normally and confirmed the characteristics laid down in the design of the engine.
    https://tass.ru/kosmos/1555879

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