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    Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #4

    kvs
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    Post  kvs Sat Jul 31, 2021 6:06 am

    The equipment is fine and works. It is the human meat that is the problem. In this case it smells that "human error" involved
    thruster firing after docking. Since the meat was unlikely to be a retard, it must have had other motives for this "error". This
    is the first time I hear of such a case. All of those Progress cargo transports docking over the last 20 years somehow did not
    involve any post docking thruster activity. The parade of claims of problems indicates a concerted effort. Some clown had
    to put out at all costs. I hope they identify him and have him shot.

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    Post  TMA1 Sat Jul 31, 2021 6:10 am

    It was a standby module and sat around for years. This will inevitably cause some problems. The thing docked and its thrusters for station orientation were not involved in this and they are separate from the other two thrusters I believe. It worked out fine. They will look back and find out the issues. Russia is coming back from major financial problems and are getting their strength back. This whole thing is being used as an attack against Russia as it is a bogey man to the neoliberal western powers.

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    Post  PapaDragon Sat Jul 31, 2021 6:43 am

    kvs wrote:The equipment is fine and works. It is the human meat that is the problem. In this case it smells that "human error" involved
    thruster firing after docking. Since the meat was unlikely to be a retard, it must have had other motives for this "error". ...

    Ah yes, right on cue and to surprise of absolutely no one the regular clownshow continues Razz

    Please tell me more about those dastardly saboteurs to keep my mind off the fact that Roskosmos is a shitshow ran by illiterate flat-Earther thumbsup


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    Post  George1 Sat Jul 31, 2021 6:54 am

    Roscosmos CEO invites Musk to Russia live on radio

    Dmitry Rogozin said he would be glad to see Musk but, being on the US blacklist, cannot come to the United States

    MOSCOW, July 30. /TASS/. CEO of Russia’s state space corporation Roscosmos Dmitry Rogozin has invited Tesla and SpaceX boss Elon Musk to Russia in a live interview with the Komsomolskaya Pravda radio station on Friday.

    Rogozin said he would be glad to see Musk but, being on the US blacklist, cannot come to the United States. "So, I expect him to come here. Let Mr. Musk, let NASA chief Senator Nelson come here," Rogozin said, adding that the NASA chief had promised to come to Russia with his family.

    Rogozin said earlier his offline meeting with NASA Administrator Bill Nelson was planned for autumn.

    https://tass.com/science/1321301

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    Post  Russian_Patriot_ Sat Jul 31, 2021 3:33 pm

    Pre-flight preparation of the Soyuz MS-19 spacecraft has begun at Baikonur. 


    Deconservation and preparation of the Soyuz MS-19 transport manned spacecraft for the final stage of the pre-flight test program have been completed in the assembly and test building of site No. 254 of the Baikonur Cosmodrome.


    This week, in accordance with the schedule, the Soyuz MS-19 spacecraft, which has been in storage mode at the technical complex since January 2021, was deconserved. After installing the ship in the slipway, specialists of the S.P. Korolev Energia Rocket and Space Corporation (part of the Roscosmos State Corporation) conducted an external inspection of the product and control of the initial state of the onboard systems, connected ground-based test equipment, assembled the test circuit and checked the inclusion of service equipment, as well as autonomous tests and installation of Kazbek crew seats.


    The work plan for the near future provides for preparing the ship for complex electrical tests, testing on-board automation and checking the tightness of the contours of the thermal management system.


    The launch of the Soyuz-2.1 a carrier rocket with the Soyuz MS-19 manned transport vehicle under the program for delivering participants of the 66th main expedition to the International Space Station is scheduled for October 2021.

    Source: 

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    Post  Big_Gazza Sat Jul 31, 2021 4:01 pm

    kvs wrote:The equipment is fine and works.   It is the human meat that is the problem.   In this case it smells that "human error" involved
    thruster firing after docking.   Since the meat was unlikely to be a retard, it must have had other motives for this "error".   This
    is the first time I hear of such a case.   All of those Progress cargo transports docking over the last 20 years somehow did not
    involve any post docking thruster activity.   The parade of claims of problems indicates a concerted effort.   Some clown had
    to put out at all costs.   I hope they identify him and have him shot.


    I've been thinking about Naukas problems since launch, and haven't commented thus far, but I now suspecting that there has been an element of foul play involved.  My suspicion is that Nauka has been subjected to a cyber-attack of sorts, namely software-bombs inserted in her operating systems designed to incapacitate the vehicle and prevent a successful rendezvous and docking.  

    Many will think this is far fetched, or that I am attempting to cover for "incompetence" by Roskosmos, but that isn't the case.  I'm struck by the nature of the problems - multiple failures on multiple systems without any common root cause.  The failures have affected critical systems, where the disablement of any one could result in a failed mission.

    Telemetry system
    Main propulsion
    Kurs rendezvous system (antenna deployment)
    Attitude control problems post-docking

    If someone wanted to disable Nauka (or worse yet, damage the ISS) they would have targeted these exact systems.  Suspect

    Russia launches unmanned free-flyers to ISS on a regular basis, yet none of these encounter even a fraction of Naukas problems. Not just routine Progress cargo carriers, but the bespoke customisations responsible for delivering modules such as Poisk, Pirs and Rassvet.  How can we explain the routine missions of these systems, and the litany of problems encountered by Nauka?

    There are many actors who would dearly love to see Nauka re-enter over the Pacific.  US deep state actors including the 3-letter agency spooks who spend the day plotting BS like MH17, Ukro-maidan, sports doping allegations and Rodchenko, etc etc.  Ukrainian nationalists and their sympathisers.  Russian liberals embittered by their failures and inability to return to power.  

    Any of them could conceivably pay off a software engineer to introduce logic bombs into Naukas code to activate once launched.  Assuming foul-play, the fact that mission specialists have been successful in overcoming the problems suggests he/she wasn't a team leader with full access and oversight, otherwise the sabotage would likely have been successful.

    Russian agencies would never admit sabotage even if it occured as they won't admit vulnerability, but I expect that the feds will be all over this after the dust settles. Its also interesting that the Feds have recently cracked down hard on  reporting of the Russian space programs and activities - it's almost like they know they have saboteurs in the industry and that a general tightening of information controls are needed to combat them.

    The upcoming launch this year of Luna-25 now takes on added significance, as does Exo-Mars next year.

    I hope I'm wrong, but think I smell a rat....

    P.S The attitude thruster firing post-docking is very interesting. Scuttlebutt is that the firing was as prolonged it was as they needed to wait until the ISS was again in range of Russian downlink stations before the thrusters could be commanded to stop. Clearly wasn't an action by ISS crew that lead to this mis-firing, so could be either a pre-programmed "retributive strike" to screw with ISS in the event of a failed sabotage (ie triggered by successful docking and downlink going offline), or a command issued from ground by persons unknown. Suspect

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    Post  PapaDragon Sat Jul 31, 2021 4:20 pm


    Big_Gazza wrote:...I now suspecting that there has been an element of foul play involved. My suspicion is that Nauka has been subjected to a cyber-attack of sorts, namely software-bombs...

    Don't know about software-bombs but you have been predictably dropping BS-bombs like it's Dresden Razz


    Paging Doctor Vann7, your esteemed colleagues have arrived for your weekly bullshit simposium" lol1


    Seriously, where is Vann? He should be all over this with Russia failing at "space dominance"

    Unless there is certain someone​ involved at the very top that he doesn't want to besmirch? Suspect Laughing


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    Post  kvs Sat Jul 31, 2021 4:29 pm

    Space is still a prestige area of activity.   So you can bet your last centavo that NATzO is working overtime to sabotage the Russian
    space effort.   Obviously they will not try to disrupt a Progress transport since they are sill the primary mode of supplying the ISS.
    But the Nauka module is a big deal and even Musk congratulated Rogozin on its deployment.   The 5th column and NATzO sycophants
    in Russia spend 24/7 spreading the narrative that Russia is a fail in every aspect.   So it follows that generating fails in high profile
    cases is part of the same propaganda package.  

    The logic bomb sabotage sounds plausible.   But I think that it was not as bad as it sounds.   If the software was totally compromised
    then ground control would be fcuked.   I think that most of the claimed failures did not happen.   They were supposed to happen and
    the talking points were prepared in advance for distribution through the media, blogs and "experts".   The only real sabotage that worked
    out was the firing of the thrusters after docking.   That was a manual intervention and not a logic bomb.   I do not see much evidence
    of loss of control of Nauka through the sabotage of its software.    Even if there are built in redundancies they can be sabotaged
    as well.  It is possible that the saboteur did not know the full specs for the backup systems.   For example there could have been an
    undocumented extra system restore layer that ground control could trigger to fully overwrite the compromised software even if the other
    layers were sabotaged.   Backup is default anyway since it is possible to have memory errors especially in a high radiation environment.  
    This naturally requires some sort of parameter backup since the current operational state of the module has to be tracked.   But
    ground control has all of these parameters and can upload them as long as the receivers are working on the module.   So a "reboot" is not
    a show stopper.  

    The initial claims of insertion into the wrong orbit indicate that not only Nauka was targeted but the launcher as well.   The latter can
    be achieved at the launch site so it was not necessarily attempted by a Russian citizen.   In the current climate, Russia needs to
    conduct its high profile launches as military operations.   Baikanur has to be dumped ASAP.    I am hoping the November launch is not
    effectively sabotaged.   You just know that these fcukers will double down on their efforts.

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    Post  Russian_Patriot_ Sat Jul 31, 2021 6:16 pm

    In Roscosmos approved the creation of a new station and the terms of use of the ISS. 

    Russia plans to abandon the use of the ISS by 2028, according to Roscosmos. The state corporation will start creating a Russian orbital service station. 

    Completion of operation of the International Space Station (ISS) is scheduled for 2028, Roscosmos said in a statement following a meeting of the state corporation's scientific and technical council.

    After reviewing the state of the Russian segment of the ISS, the designers concluded that due to the aging of a significant part of the equipment, its operation after 2024 "creates additional risks".

    In this regard, it is planned to create a national manned space complex in low-Earth orbit — the Russian Orbital Service Station (ROSS).

    The Presidium of the State Corporation's Scientific and Technical Council instructed RSC Energia to develop a scenario agreed with its partners for the completion of the ISS operation. The council also recommended that "a decision be made to start technical development of the design appearance of the new ROSS orbital station (as part of the ISS or as an independent national station), providing for the development of a preliminary design of the station and including these works in FKP-2025".

    Source: 

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    Post  Russian_Patriot_ Sat Jul 31, 2021 6:20 pm

    Node module "Prichal" went to Baikonur. 

    Technological tests of the Prichal node module as part of the Progress M-UM cargo transport module have been completed at the Korolev RSC Energia Control and Testing Station (CIS). Today, the spacecraft left for the technical complex of the Baikonur Cosmodrome to continue assembly and pre-flight preparation in accordance with the schedule for further development of the Russian segment of the International Space Station (ISS RS).

    In recent weeks, RSC Energia specialists have successfully completed a series of joint tests of the Prichal UMS with integrated stands of the Zvezda service module and the Nauka multi-purpose laboratory module of the ISS RS. After the final operations, the undocked spacecraft components and ground-based test equipment were prepared for shipment to the spaceport by rail.

    The launch of the Prichal node module as part of the Progress M-UM TGCM using the Soyuz-2.1 launch vehicle is scheduled for November 2021.

    Source: 
    Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #4 - Page 13 Gvtrqi10
    Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #4 - Page 13 Cgfehz10
    Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #4 - Page 13 Ki8j1r10

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    Post  Hole Sat Jul 31, 2021 9:22 pm

    Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #4 - Page 13 Cf399f10
    Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #4 - Page 13 De3ce510
    Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #4 - Page 13 F1c9e210
    Entering Nauka

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    Post  Big_Gazza Sun Aug 01, 2021 3:41 am

    Russian_Patriot_ wrote:In Roscosmos approved the creation of a new station and the terms of use of the ISS. 

    This is excellent news.  It's an imperative that Russia put the Muricanz and their Eurotrash cock-holsters on notice that the party has an end-date, and after that they can kiss their $100B asset goodbye.  No negotiation.  Thanks for the ride but now pls sod off.  Turn the lights off as you leave, cuz re-entry is slated for T minus 24 hrs.  Twisted Evil

    Oh, BTW Russia still reserves the right to detach sections for re-use if they so desire.  They'll make their minds up closer to the date. That decision is theirs, not yours, and they don't need your input or "permission".

    The ISS/Nauka thread on the NASA Spaceflight forum is full of endless arm-waving chicken-little BS after the post-docking attitude thruster firing...  This is usually a sensible forum, but the Russophobe haters are out in force it seems.  A recurring thread is that Russia is bluffing about wanting to withdraw from ISS, and that its all "blackmail" to get the US to pay for their operations now that the Russian program is facing "crisis" due to the US not buying seats on Soyuz (as if Russias space program is paid for with chump change from flying Muricanz to ISS).  Russia doesn't have the money to build their own station, so it must be a ruse, right?  Suspect

    At this rate I'll be looking forward to seeing ISS re-enter.  Russia shouldn't have to co-operate with arrogant hegemon wanna-bees that hate them because they won't get down and suck Uncle Schmuels shlong like the Eurofail trash or the cuckold Japs.

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    Post  PapaDragon Sun Aug 01, 2021 4:33 am


    Alright as for new space station it should go like this:

    - Polar orbit fully suited for Russian needa

    - No compromise on orbit or launch site, it anyone wants to visit they figure out the way to get there on their own

    - All new modules, no old junk

    - Modules need to be universal and based on new NEM module with just slight modifications (luckily they already said they would go with this approach)

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    Post  miketheterrible Sun Aug 01, 2021 6:37 am

    What's wrong with some of the old stuff? I can't see why they can't dust off Mir and improve upon it. Cheaper too
    x_54_u43
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    Post  x_54_u43 Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:13 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Alright as for new space station it should go like this:

    - Polar orbit fully suited for Russian needa

    - No compromise on orbit or launch site, it anyone wants to visit they figure out the way to get there on their own

    - All new modules, no old junk

    - Modules need to be universal and based on new NEM module with just slight modifications (luckily they already said they would go with this approach)


    WTF would it be in polar orbit for?
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    Post  Big_Gazza Sun Aug 01, 2021 3:06 pm

    x_54_u43 wrote:WTF would it be in polar orbit for?

    Because it would be well suited to access from northerly launch centers, but mainly because the orbital path crosses Russian territory on a regular basis and that means improved availability of comms access to downlink stations on Russian soil. Such a station has global coverage and can pass over any point on the globe, and covers the poles on every rotation. For a nation with extensive Arctic territories like Russia that is valuable indeed.

    It wouldn't be ideal at all if the ROS was to be used for assembly of payloads destined for geosynch orbits, but ISS doesn't perform assembly activities and Russia's "partners" ( Suspect ) have never considered that lack of capability to be an issue.

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    Post  Big_Gazza Sun Aug 01, 2021 3:28 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:What's wrong with some of the old stuff?  I can't see why they can't dust off Mir and improve upon it. Cheaper too

    Nah, Russia needs to move on from DOS and TKS based modules. The engineering legacy of those products isn't wasted, but new assets will be substantially new designs and will be suited to modern manufacturing techniques such as digitised CAD/CAM, 3D printing, VR/AR, friction welding etc etc. DOS and TKS were great for their era, but things move on. Sukhoi doesn't build Su-57 with traditional Soviet manufacturing techniques, so why should Energia/Khrunichev/Progress etc build new space station modules using legacy methods?

    Nauka will be last of the TKS-based modules. Finishing her was always a necessity as otherwise it would be an open sore on Roskosmos' rump, a sign that they cut and run in the face of setbacks and can't be relied on to deliver on their obligations. Nauka was to deliver the ESA robotic arm, and it was essential that Roskosmos stuck to their word and delivered as promised, even is absurdly late. Regardless of the Murican and Eurofag BS, they cannot accuse the Russians of not delivering on their obligations.

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    Post  Big_Gazza Sun Aug 01, 2021 3:29 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Alright as for new space station it should go like this:

    - Polar orbit fully suited for Russian needa

    - No compromise on orbit or launch site, it anyone wants to visit they figure out the way to get there on their own

    - All new modules, no old junk

    - Modules need to be universal and based on new NEM module with just slight modifications (luckily they already said they would go with this approach)


    This. x10 thumbsup
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    Post  PapaDragon Sun Aug 01, 2021 4:15 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:What's wrong with some of the old stuff? I can't see why they can't dust off Mir and improve upon it. Cheaper too

    Old blueprints​ are not the issue (they are still in use on ISS)

    Issue is production date, build new and launch new, don't use old stuff



    x_54_u43 wrote:WTF would it be in polar orbit for?

    Current ISS orbit is a compromise to accommodate other ISS partners, it's a pain in the ass for Russia


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    Post  Daniel_Admassu Sun Aug 01, 2021 4:27 pm

    And make them bigger while they are at it. One point of ridicule the west always raised was that Russian modules were too cramped. I know everyone is going to hate me for this but I kind of agree. With newer materials and design, launch weights should be going down for a given volume. That is also the way to attract more space tourists and maybe cash in on this 'millionaires holiday' thing.
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    Post  Big_Gazza Sun Aug 01, 2021 6:08 pm

    Daniel_Admassu wrote:And make them bigger while they are at it. One point of ridicule the west always raised was that Russian modules were too cramped. I know everyone is going to hate me for this but I kind of agree. With newer materials and design, launch weights should be going down for a given volume. That is also the way to attract more space tourists and maybe cash in on this 'millionaires holiday' thing.

    USSR/Russia built modules within the LEO mass limitations of the Proton launcher. Every other space faring nation with their own national launch capabilities does the same.

    The issue is not Russian design methodology but nonsensical BS from Russia's perennial detractors.

    Space tourism is a bust. It's a novelty that very few can ever afford, and its not worth the cost to invest in private well-heeled toss-pots making a visit to an operating space station. You won't recover the outlays and the efforts will simply distract you from conducting worthwhile activities. Even the wealthiest elite parasite isn't going to take enough orbital vacations to turn a profit on a private inflatable hotel suite added to ISS (let alone the cargo allocation of Moet & Chandon and beluga caviar).

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    Post  Daniel_Admassu Sun Aug 01, 2021 7:51 pm

    You know the added weight of one more passenger doesn't count much against the overall overhead of a vehicle like the Soyuz or Angara. I am guessing Orel accommodates more than three seats, and they can reserve one for a paying customer, who can go up with expedition x and go down with expedition x-1 a week or so later. No extra provisions needed. Just a few 'amenities ' if they wish to spice things up (caviars, if need be). I really don't see how that can hurt. After all Russia has done it a few times before, including on Mir. It would be a great way to build up its image and diplomacy while covering some of its launch costs.

    Good thing you mentioned inflatable modules, because I forgot to. If that is not one great idea to solve the launch weight problem, I don't know what is, provided they solve the radiation shielding issue of course.
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    Post  Kiko Sun Aug 01, 2021 8:07 pm

    First video from Nauka:



    Roscosmos cosmonaut Oleg Novitsky, who is now aboard the International Space Station, published a video tour of the Nauka multipurpose laboratory module, which on Thursday, July 29, 2021, docked to the ISS in normal mode.

    The footage shows how he, together with Peter Dubrov, opens the hatches into the new Russian module, after which they move into it. Then a small excursion through the "Science" itself begins.

    Nauka is a multipurpose laboratory module for the Russian segment of the International Space Station. It was created by the cooperation of enterprises in order to implement the program of scientific experiments and expand the functionality of the Russian segment of the ISS. After its commissioning, the Russian segment will receive additional volumes for the arrangement of workplaces and storage of goods, placement of equipment for the regeneration of water and oxygen.

    https://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/142584/

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    Post  Scorpius Mon Aug 02, 2021 7:09 am

    miketheterrible wrote:What's wrong with some of the old stuff?  I can't see why they can't dust off Mir and improve upon it. Cheaper too

    Mir is already outdated, including ideologically. Let me remind you that the term of its existence was only 15 years, it consisted of a variety of modules, each of which was produced taking into account the technological chain available to the USSR. Russia wants a station that will not have to be sunk in the ocean after 15 years of service, and which can be implemented without the participation of foreign enterprises.
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    Post  Big_Gazza Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:06 pm

    Scorpius wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:What's wrong with some of the old stuff?  I can't see why they can't dust off Mir and improve upon it. Cheaper too

    Mir is already outdated, including ideologically. Let me remind you that the term of its existence was only 15 years, it consisted of a variety of modules, each of which was produced taking into account the technological chain available to the USSR. Russia wants a station that will not have to be sunk in the ocean after 15 years of service, and which can be implemented without the participation of foreign enterprises.

    How does a space station become "ideologically" outdated? Suspect

    Mir was de-orbited as Yeltsin had slashed the budget to virtually zero, and the US had pressured his government to abandon Mir as the price to pay for being "allowed" to join the ISS project. US claimed that Russia couldn't keep both Mir alive and keep their obligations to the ISS build (almost certainly true at that time), but there was an unmistakable smarminess at the way they spoke about decommissioning Mir. You could tell they were getting their rocks off over it.

    Anyhow Mir service could have been greatly extended beyond its 15 years, but money was in short supply. Technologically the USSR had no problem with its "technological chain" so why do you think they needed foreign assistance?

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