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    Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #4

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    Daniel_Admassu

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    Post  Daniel_Admassu Thu Jul 22, 2021 7:06 pm

    flamming_python wrote:They've come up with a plan to use gas impulses to correct the orbit of the Nauka towards rendezvous

    Apparently they've tried a test impulse and it works

    Now they're waiting for the window of opportunity to do it

    If it works then the Nauka will take longer than scheduled to meet up with the ISS, but it'll get there

    A glimmer of hope......
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    Post  dino00 Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:45 pm

    The engines of the Nauka module are operational, it has performed an orbit correction - Roskosmos

    *** Earlier, the media reported about problems with starting engines

    Moscow. July 22. INTERFAX - The Nauka module has successfully completed a test orbit correction, its engines are operating normally, Roskosmos reported.
    "The test firing of the propulsion system of the # Science module and the orbit formation impulse have been worked out routinely," the state corporation said in a tweet.

    https://www.militarynews.ru/story.asp?rid=1&nid=553696&lang=RU

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    ALAMO

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    Post  ALAMO Fri Jul 23, 2021 1:34 am

    Still consider, that the world we face, is not big enough to host some ego of yours.
    You should build an alternative one Laughing
    Ancient Rome used to have a two-toned rule, but if you add Vann, you will have a trium viri they know.
    Did not ended well for a trium members, in both attempts Laughing Laughing Laughing
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    Post  ALAMO Fri Jul 23, 2021 1:47 am

    C'mon bud, this is space exploration.
    They are all crossing the frontiers.
    We will not make a step forward, fearing failure.
    We will fail.
    All of us, mankind, whoever brave enough to lift off.
    And rise.
    Nail a slave, rise a knight.
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    ALAMO

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    Post  ALAMO Fri Jul 23, 2021 2:00 am

    Aren't you demanding too much from a country economically equal to Germany? dunno
    I love my German neighbours, we've run a long road understanding each other, and the sane of us succeded ...
    But unfortunately, I can't see a German GPS running, or in a pipeline? dunno
    Where is a GPS of France?
    Or UK?
    All of them combined, struggling to make a Galileo living ...
    Fly high, see the perspective.

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    Post  Daniel_Admassu Fri Jul 23, 2021 4:32 am

    kvs wrote:
    dino00 wrote:
    The engines of the Nauka module are operational, it has performed an orbit correction - Roskosmos

         *** Earlier, the media reported about problems with starting engines
         
          Moscow. July 22. INTERFAX - The Nauka module has successfully completed a test orbit correction, its engines are operating normally, Roskosmos reported.
          "The test firing of the propulsion system of the # Science module and the orbit formation impulse have been worked out routinely," the state corporation said in a tweet.

    https://www.militarynews.ru/story.asp?rid=1&nid=553696&lang=RU

    So Zak was spreading misinformation.  

    Doing a favour for his "homeland".   lol1


    I stand by my assessment that Anatoly Zak is usually correct in his reporting, although for this one I couldn't get to the full article behind the paywall. The interfax article also says the state commission delayed the orbital correction by 24 hrs to troubleshoot some telemetry they were getting from the propulsion module. Why would they do that if everything was OK?

    The main thing is things have now gone back to normal. Nauka is also supposed to perform as a backup propulsion source for the ISS and so engine problems could have been a big concern. It is to be attached to an Earth-facing port of Zvezda (replacing Pirs) and used to lift the ISS to a higher altitude.
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    Post  Russian_Patriot_ Fri Jul 23, 2021 5:27 am

    How huge is Soyuz-5 compared to Soyuz-2
    Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #4 - Page 10 5hhwvg10

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    Post  PapaDragon Fri Jul 23, 2021 6:28 am

    Russian_Patriot_ wrote:How huge is Soyuz-5 compared to Soyuz-2
    [img]https://i.servimg.com/u/f81/20/34/63/61/5hhwvg10.jpg

    5 of these bundled together would be boner inducing
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    Post  owais.usmani Fri Jul 23, 2021 10:16 am

    dino00 wrote:
    The engines of the Nauka module are operational, it has performed an orbit correction - Roskosmos

         *** Earlier, the media reported about problems with starting engines
         
          Moscow. July 22. INTERFAX - The Nauka module has successfully completed a test orbit correction, its engines are operating normally, Roskosmos reported.
          "The test firing of the propulsion system of the # Science module and the orbit formation impulse have been worked out routinely," the state corporation said in a tweet.

    https://www.militarynews.ru/story.asp?rid=1&nid=553696&lang=RU

    https://www.roscosmos.ru/31978/

    On Thursday, July 22, 2021, specialists of the flight control group of the multipurpose module "Nauka" in the Moscow Region Mission Control Center conducted two corrective maneuvers of the module launched the day before to the International Space Station.

    The first maneuver took place at 18:07 Moscow time, when the engines of the module were turned on for 17.23 seconds. The impulse value was 1 m / s. The second switching on of the engines took place at 20:19 Moscow time and lasted 250.04 seconds. The impulse was 14.59 m / s.

    Orbital parameters after two impulses:

    Orbital period : 90.17 min;
    Orbit inclination : 51.64 degrees;
    Minimum orbital altitude : 230.43 km;
    Maximum orbital altitude : 364.86 km.
    Thus, the telemetry data confirmed the operability of the module's propulsion system. The next pulses for further orbit building are scheduled for tomorrow, July 23rd. Undocking and flooding of the Pirs module is scheduled for Saturday 24 July.

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    Post  Daniel_Admassu Fri Jul 23, 2021 10:35 am

    @owais.usmani
    Thanks for the info update. Good to hear Nauka is in nominal state.

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    Post  Big_Gazza Fri Jul 23, 2021 11:44 am

    Russian_Patriot_ wrote:How huge is Soyuz-5 compared to Soyuz-2

    It's a Zenit replacement with a 18T to LEO capability (while Soyuz 2.1b is only 8.2 T). Yeah, it should be bigger Laughing

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    Post  owais.usmani Fri Jul 23, 2021 2:33 pm

    Daniel_Admassu wrote:@owais.usmani
    Thanks for the info update. Good to hear Nauka is in nominal state.

    Well they dodged the initial bullet, but its still not out of the woods yet. Next few days extremely critical in determining the fate of Nauka.

    Got this insider update from a member on another forum:

    According to Igor Lisov on the NK forum, Nauka needs to make a major maneuver pretty soon (preferably today) to still make it to the ISS. Nauka was launched 1.5° out of plane with the ISS to allow it to make a leisurely 8-day approach to the station. However, since Nauka is in a much lower orbit than it should be by now, the orbital plane is precessing faster than expected and will converge with that of the ISS too soon if no major burn is performed today to slow the approach speed. The two relatively small maneuvers carried out yesterday have not done much to change that situation. If the orbital planes converge before Nauka reaches ISS, Nauka will have to be maneuvered into an orbit higher than that of the ISS for the orbital planes to drift back to one other, but there is not enough propellant for that, according to Lisov.
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    Post  kvs Fri Jul 23, 2021 2:49 pm

    All of this is speculative drivel passing off as actual "crisis" reporting. There was no incident and regular orbit adjustments are
    being passed off as recovery operations. "Insiders", "journalists".

    According to Igor Lisov on the NK forum, Nauka needs to make a major maneuver pretty soon (preferably today) to still make it to the ISS. Nauka was launched 1.5° out of plane with the ISS to allow it to make a leisurely 8-day approach to the station. However, since Nauka is in a much lower orbit than it should be by now, the orbital plane is precessing faster than expected and will converge with that of the ISS too soon if no major burn is performed today to slow the approach speed. The two relatively small maneuvers carried out yesterday have not done much to change that situation. If the orbital planes converge before Nauka reaches ISS, Nauka will have to be maneuvered into an orbit higher than that of the ISS for the orbital planes to drift back to one other, but there is not enough propellant for that, according to Lisov.

    So they put Nauka into this plane but it is in a much lower orbit. A 17 second thruster burn will not adjust it into the correct orbit then.

    I will take the official statement about Nauka being delivered into the right initial orbit before any of these blog-whore speculators and their
    NATzO fed talking points. These clowns are clearly being agitated and volunteering to spread FUD.

    https://twitter.com/roscosmos/status/1418287587467350019

    No indication of desperate orbital adjustments other than the expected ones. Roscosmos has not given any indication that Nauka was
    delivered to the wrong orbit. Instead we have clowns claiming that planned small orbital corrections are desperate attempts to restore
    the proper orbit.

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    Post  Big_Gazza Sat Jul 24, 2021 2:42 am

    The main engines of Nauka, the so-called DKS, have been successfully fired. Previous course adjustments were performed using auxiliary engines for maneuvering and attitude controls.

    It will be nice to get Nauka docked and then we can try to forget the spiteful shitfuckery on display here over the last few days.  It's been as though the forum had been deluged with Ukropistani trolls...

    source

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    Post  kvs Sat Jul 24, 2021 3:46 am

    A major orbital insertion failure cannot be fixed with any of the thruster firing brought up so far. In the past such failures have
    been announced and a crisis team was appointed to figure out how to fix the problem. Now we have Zak and other haters
    spreading FUD pretending that there is a crisis. This is part of the information war against Russia. The same sort of drivel
    spew occurs whenever there are forest fires in Russia. We have "sky is falling" hysteria about how the government is failing.
    But compared to Canada and the USA, Russia is doing a much better job. In Canada there is even a crisis from the rampant
    theft of equipment from the forest service that hobbles their response efforts.

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    Post  Daniel_Admassu Sat Jul 24, 2021 6:08 am

    Crisis or no crisis, Good morning news for me here.

    Roscosmos confirms it:

    В пятницу специалисты группы управления полётом модуля #Наука провели два корректирующих манёвра модуля, запущенного в среду к Международной космической станции.

    Следующие импульсы для дальнейшего выстраивания орбиты запланированы на 24 июля. https://t.co/RQxZw1qPtL
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    Post  x_54_u43 Sat Jul 24, 2021 11:04 am

    Rogozin assumed control over Roscomos in May of 2018. Could someone please inform me what disasters and fuckups have proceeded in 2018, 2019, 2020, and 2021 and how they compare to previous years without his oversight and leadership over Roscosmos as a state corporation?

    Because I can assure you, whatever you consider of Rogozin's handling of Roscosmos from 2018 onwards, before hand it was much worse, especially in terms of failure rate. Both 2019 and 2020 were accident free in terms of launches, this streak occurring within a year of him taking office and Roscosmos reforming into a state corporation rather than a state agency. Though I do wish he would tweet a little less.

    I would also like to remind you all, every other critical industry and sphere of development in Russia has near the same level of lag and development. For example:


    Military shipbuilding, Gorshkov's only very recently finally started accepting serial version for service, same thing with 885 class as well. Civilian is somewhat near same story, with Zvezda only recently starting to deliver on promised orders that weren't nearly entirely made in South Korea, such as the first tanker only have it's nose put on in port.(And that's fine, for other reasons that don't belong in this post.)

    Military ground vehicles, Armata, Kurganets, and Bumerang are all still in delayed testing with no in service entries whatsoever.

    Military aircraft and civilian aircraft as well, Su-57 only have 1 in service serial, similiar with MS-21 not being in service at all.

    Noticing a trend here? Russia's various high-tech industries have only really recently started into a proper growth and development cycle, Roscosmos is pretty much no exception from the trend.

    But of course, this will be lost on PapaDragon and flamming, the only response will be hurling other obscenities involving Rogozin's sperm.

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    Post  Big_Gazza Sat Jul 24, 2021 6:25 pm

    GLONASS signal tracking station to be installed in India

    ZHUKOVSKY (Moscow region), July 24 - RIA Novosti. The station for tracking the signals of the Russian global navigation satellite system GLONASS will be located in India and, possibly, in Indonesia , Vladimir Pasynkov, general designer of the Precision Instrumentation Systems Research and Production Corporation, told RIA Novosti.

    “We have been instructed to prepare the deployment of a GLONASS-free measuring station in the Indian city of Bangalore . It is also possible to install such a station in Indonesia,” he said at the MAKS-2021 International Aviation and Space Salon.

    According to him, the placement of these stations will significantly improve the characteristics of the Russian high-precision navigation system.

    "Agreements have already been reached with the Indian side, everything is determined by the terms of legal registration of documents," Pasynkov added.

    At present, the overseas segment includes five Russian GLONASS free measuring stations located in Brazil , South Africa and Cuba .

    source

    This is very good news, and will be a major annoyance for Washington.  thumbsup

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    Post  Big_Gazza Sat Jul 24, 2021 6:32 pm

    Module "Science" was put into the calculated orbit

    MOSCOW, July 24 - RIA Novosti. The multifunctional laboratory module "Science", after the orbit corrections carried out on Saturday, entered the calculated flight trajectory, said the head of Roscosmos Dmitry Rogozin in his Telegram.

    "At 17.20.47 and 17.54.20 Moscow time, a two-pulse correction of the MLM Nauka orbit was carried out on the main correction and rendezvous engine number 1. The parameters of the MLM Nauka orbit correspond to the calculated ones," he wrote.

    The day before , the Mission Control Center twice adjusted the flight altitude of the Nauka multifunctional laboratory module, and the first maneuvers were carried out on the 22nd. The module docking to the ISS is planned for July 29.

    source

    Fingers crossed for a successful docking.

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    Post  PhSt Sat Jul 24, 2021 8:00 pm

    Is Roscosmos faring better before Rogozin took over?
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    Post  kvs Sat Jul 24, 2021 9:48 pm

    PhSt wrote:Is Roscosmos faring better before Rogozin took over?

    That was answered before.   He cleaned it up and it has had much less failures.   The 1990s spread corruption into Russian society
    and government on a large scale.   It has been 20+ year effort to undo the damage left by comprador Yeltsin.    There was corruption
    in Roscosmos and Rogozin has been the cleaner who has been doing his job.

    The Vostochny cosmodrome construction was delayed 1.5 years because corrupt contractors were enabled by Roscosmos.
    Rogozin basically destroyed the whole racket and these corrupt contractor heads were put on trial.   After Rogozin's cleaning
    the construction of the cosmodrome proceeded as planned.  

    PD's obsession with Rogozin is a disease.    Rogozin really got under PD's skin with the statement that the US can use trampolines
    if they hate Russia so much and take for granted the fact that Russia has been their sole source of access to space ever since the Shuttle
    was retired.   This has changed now with Musk's Space-X but PD's butthurt remains.

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    Post  Arrow Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:38 am

    ALAMO wrote:Aren't you demanding too much from a country economically equal to Germany? dunno
    I love my German neighbours, we've run a long road understanding each other, and the sane of us succeded ...
    But unfortunately, I can't see a German GPS running, or in a pipeline? dunno
    Where is a GPS of France?
    Or UK?
    All of them combined, struggling to make a Galileo living ...
    Fly high, see the perspective.

    Russia is hard to compare with Germany or France when it comes to space industry and technologies, and even the entire military industry. Russia was a leader in the development of space technologies as the USSR, spending over 40 years huge sums on the development of all space technologies. Now they take advantage of it. They have many solutions, technologies, etc. already ready. They don't have to develop it. Germany or France, UK have never invested so much in this sector. Currently, with a similar size of the economy, they are not able to implement many of the technologies that Russia has. The same is true for the MIC complex. The fact that Russia has excellent technologies for missile, anti-aircraft, aviation, radar, submarines, etc. Is the result of 50 years of R&D on many systems, solutions, etc.And invested enormous forces and resources. Now, with similar expenses, they can do much more than France, UK. In addition, Russia is currently managing its resources very efficiently with the MIC complex. So in my opinion it is hard to compare Russia even with the largest EU countries, if we want to compare the capabilities of their MIC or space industries.

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    Post  GarryB Sun Jul 25, 2021 12:24 pm

    It doesn't work like that Arrow... most of the people in the US that built the Saturn V rockets are dead... America couldn't build new Saturn V rockets if they wanted to and even if they could they wouldn't want to because technology has moved on and there would be enormous numbers of changes and modifications you would need to retest it like it was new... which means it would be much better to redesign it from scratch and get a much better rocket.

    Russia was a leader in the development of space technologies as the USSR, spending over 40 years huge sums on the development of all space technologies. Now they take advantage of it.

    Huge spending in the 1980s and little to no spending in the 1990s and 00s and 10s means if the technology you are talking about is audio or video cassettes then they are probably good, but regarding anything else the west has had more money and more technology available to them to do what Russia has done over the last 30 years, which is completely rebuild itself.

    They have many solutions, technologies, etc. already ready.

    Most of the technology developed during the cold war is being replaced right now... Zircon is replacing Onyx but Onyx only entered service in 1996 and is better than any anti ship missile the west currently has.

    Many Russians left Russia and went west either to europe or the US or israel and took their secrets with them so there is really no reason for the west to be behind and they have had the last 30 years to catch up and in many areas they were already ahead.

    . Is the result of 50 years of R&D on many systems, solutions, etc.And invested enormous forces and resources.

    Not really... it is more about need.

    The Europeans don't need to defend themselves, they just need small forces to plunder small poor countries... when it comes to the threat of Russia well during the cold war they hid behind the US, and in the 1990s there was nothing to fear... now they are realising the danger... the economic danger of being left behind by China and Russia and other countries... but they are lazy and expect the US to come to their rescue.

    So in my opinion it is hard to compare Russia even with the largest EU countries, if we want to compare the capabilities of their MIC or space industries.

    Russia is at a level where it can feel reasonably safe so now the focus needs to be on quality of life and level of comfort and the ratio of wealth in money and assets between the richest people in Russia and the poorest... if they can find a solution to that problem then it has a bright future.
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    Post  Arrow Sun Jul 25, 2021 12:47 pm

    Yes, but Zircon is the result of 60 years of development of anti-ship missiles. Already in the 1960s, the development of anti-ship missiles was a priority in the USSR. There was P 120, P 500, P 700, P 1000, P800 etc. It's a huge experience that no one else has.
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    Post  Big_Gazza Sun Jul 25, 2021 12:53 pm

    Don't under-estimate the enormous value of the mass of documentation of previously developed technologies.  They serve as an invaluable "go-by" as instructions to a new generation of engineers and designers. Even without the guidance of the "old hands" who are in the twilight of their careers (and are therefore well placed as mentors to the new cadres) such a wealth of engineering legacy can fuel an aerospace renaissance should the authorities desire it and be prepared to allocate the resources required.  Take the old designs, spruce them up with new materials, replace the old electronics and hard-wired systems with modern equivalents incl advanced signal processing and logic solvers, and finally add modern analysis and computational tools into the mix.

    Political will, adequate resources, & documented engineering legacy.  With these things you can rebuild and regain technological parity or even outright superiority.  Post-Soviet Russia has proved this.

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