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    Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #4

    Big_Gazza
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    Post  Big_Gazza Mon Jul 12, 2021 2:30 am

    Mockup of the KTM reactor:

    Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #4 - Page 7 10-98510

    Is it too much to wish for that Arsenal might be displaying this as part of MAKS 2021?

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    Post  thegopnik Mon Jul 12, 2021 2:44 am

    Well shit I guess the U.S. can stay as proud as they want with China in the Summit boasting about flying a drone in Mars, while Venus seems a tad bit a little more difficult to do, wish them luck.

    @BigGazza

    Got any more news on the reactor like megawatts or what it is used for(satellite, tug, spacecraft etc)? Waiting for the airshow is going to be painful.


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    Post  Big_Gazza Mon Jul 12, 2021 10:53 am

    thegopnik wrote:@BigGazza

    Got any more news on the reactor like megawatts or what it is used for(satellite, tug, spacecraft etc)? Waiting for the airshow is going to be painful.

    I always post anything I find Very Happy

    Regarding the purpose, I assume you've seen Bloshenkos presentation (refer post #55) where he proposes a multi-target interplanetary mission (Moon, Venus and Jupiter, with an orbiter spacecraft delivered to each)? Nukleon/Zeus/SuperPutin ( Laughing ) or whatever its called, nuclear tugs of this sort are going to revolutionise BEO missions. Manned missions to Mars will benefit from reduced transit times, and deep space missions to the outer planets can be done without umpteen gravity assists in the inner solar system (like Cassini) and the near-decadal flight times that result.

    Nukleon/Zeus has captured my imagination more than any other mission proposals since... well.. since ever. This is an infrastructure project of the 1st degree, and if successful, its impact will simply be monumental. thumbsup

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    Post  thegopnik Tue Jul 13, 2021 1:23 am

    My dumbass finally has seen the images of Russian_Patriot and now I am even more confused than before the original sources have said to earths moon, venus and than one of Jupiters moons and now its earth's moon and Mars, do they have two separate TEM projects(keldysh center said one thing Arsenal said something else unless they are two separate companies) I had a hold the **** up moment when I saw the words say Martian surface ? Geez I do hope the Maks airshow will show us more info than this, but I am thankful for those space pornographic images I love you

    Edit: found the old source https://ria.ru/20210418/kosmos-1728810284.html Zevs is name of spacecraft, project is called nuklon, engine is called Rosatama.... But also states KB arsenal and than at the end of the paragraph they are working on a new nuclear engine. So I take it they are the ones proposing the moon/mars mission as a separate project. I think I got it. thumbsup

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    Post  Scorpius Tue Jul 13, 2021 7:10 am

    Nucleon is the general name of the topic of research papers. Zeus is the name of the prototype. Initially, it was assumed that the result would be the creation of a line of spacecraft for various purposes. for example, to implement a manned Martian flight complex, you will need a power of 15...75 MW. So this is not one or two projects. Depending on the success of the tests, it can be hundreds of projects.

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    Post  Russian_Patriot_ Tue Jul 13, 2021 9:26 am

    thegopnik wrote:My dumbass finally has seen the images of Russian_Patriot and now I am even more confused than before the original sources have said to earths moon, venus and than one of Jupiters moons and now its earth's moon and Mars, do they have two separate TEM projects(keldysh center said one thing Arsenal said something else unless they are two separate companies) I had a hold the **** up moment when I saw the words say Martian surface ? Geez I do hope the Maks airshow will show us more info than this, but I am thankful for those space pornographic images I love you

    Edit: found the old source https://ria.ru/20210418/kosmos-1728810284.html Zevs is name of spacecraft, project is called nuklon, engine is called Rosatama.... But also states KB arsenal and than at the end of the paragraph they are working on a new nuclear engine. So I take it they are the ones proposing the moon/mars mission as a separate project. I think I got it. thumbsup
    As far as I remember, the Keldysh Center and the Arsenal presented their projects of nuclear tugs. Further work went with the project from Arsenal. So far, it is planned only to fly to the Moon, Venus and Jupiter, and the images that I showed are just a demonstration of how the Arsenal sees the use of a tug

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    Post  thegopnik Tue Jul 13, 2021 6:05 pm

    I guess I will be betting on another nuclear spacecraft since they coincidentally released this 2 days while we are a week or 2 away from one of the biggest aviation/space air shows.

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    Post  Scorpius Tue Jul 13, 2021 6:42 pm

    thegopnik wrote:I guess I will be betting on another nuclear spacecraft since they coincidentally released this 2 days while we are a week or 2 away from one of the biggest aviation/space air shows.
    Oh, and just a couple of days ago there was an "unintentional" leak about a patent for the layout of a super-heavy launch vehicle with 14 RD-171MV engines

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    Post  Big_Gazza Wed Jul 14, 2021 6:08 am

    Scorpius wrote:Oh, and just a couple of days ago there was an "unintentional" leak about a patent for the layout of a super-heavy launch vehicle with 14 RD-171MV engines

    14? Shocked

    Not possible Suspect

    The RD-171MV is intended to power the 1st stage of the Soyuz-5 and it only requires 1x engine.  Even the Yenisei/Don SHLV will only require 6x (plus the central core).  I can't imagine a vehicle comprising a stack of 14x Soyuz-5 cores....  OMG what a BEAST that would be Laughing

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    Post  Scorpius Wed Jul 14, 2021 11:09 am

    Big_Gazza wrote:
    Scorpius wrote:Oh, and just a couple of days ago there was an "unintentional" leak about a patent for the layout of a super-heavy launch vehicle with 14 RD-171MV engines

    14? Shocked

    Not possible Suspect

    The RD-171MV is intended to power the 1st stage of the Soyuz-5 and it only requires 1x engine.  Even the Yenisei/Don SHLV will only require 6x (plus the central core).  I can't imagine a vehicle comprising a stack of 14x Soyuz-5 cores....  OMG what a BEAST that would be Laughing
    the total thrust at sea level is 11,200 tons. With a thrust-to-weight ratio of 1.35, this corresponds to a starting mass of 8,300 tons. With a mass ratio of the payload (4%) to the launch mass, this will give up to 330 tons of payload per LEO.

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    Post  x_54_u43 Wed Jul 14, 2021 11:45 am

    Scorpius wrote:
    thegopnik wrote:I guess I will be betting on another nuclear spacecraft since they coincidentally released this 2 days while we are a week or 2 away from one of the biggest aviation/space air shows.
    Oh, and just a couple of days ago there was an "unintentional" leak about a patent for the layout of a super-heavy launch vehicle with 14 RD-171MV engines

    Do you have a source for this?

    Also patents don't always come to metal but I do hope this pans out, will it be partially reusable like with Amur?

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    Post  Big_Gazza Wed Jul 14, 2021 1:26 pm

    Scorpius wrote:the total thrust at sea level is 11,200 tons. With a thrust-to-weight ratio of 1.35, this corresponds to a starting mass of 8,300 tons. With a mass ratio of the payload (4%) to the launch mass, this will give up to 330 tons of payload per LEO.

    OK, but who in their right mind would ever develop such a booster?

    8,300 tons? FFS, Saturn V or N-1 were both less than 3,000 tons.

    The idea of investing a mountain of cash and literally dozens (if not hundreds) of man-years into a 300+ tonne payload and orbiting it in one launch would give any program manager a heart attack. SO much better to build 100 tonne modules and assemble what you want/need.
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    Post  thegopnik Wed Jul 14, 2021 2:11 pm

    maybe this rocket could be used for setting up bases to Mars(see KB arsenal's image) or getting a man to Mars dunno
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    Post  kvs Wed Jul 14, 2021 5:22 pm

    Scorpius wrote:
    thegopnik wrote:I guess I will be betting on another nuclear spacecraft since they coincidentally released this 2 days while we are a week or 2 away from one of the biggest aviation/space air shows.
    Oh, and just a couple of days ago there was an "unintentional" leak about a patent for the layout of a super-heavy launch vehicle with 14 RD-171MV engines

    It is basically certain that any SHLV will be URM type. But it seems that it will have a larger core

    1) single RD-171MV per first stage outer cluster consisting of 8 modules

    2) four RD-171MV in the core stage like Energiya

    3) two RD-171MV in the core second stage

    So this is a super Energiya without the LH-LOX.

    Giving the second core stage two RD-171MV engines and more fuel is enabled by the use of 8 first
    stage boosters. I have not done any calculations or seen much discussion on this aspect. Putting
    all the thrust into the first stage may appear more efficient since the extra fuel load and engine load
    is focused on achieving a greater velocity on second stage separation. But I do not think it such a
    critical difference.
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    Post  kvs Wed Jul 14, 2021 5:24 pm

    Big_Gazza wrote:
    Scorpius wrote:the total thrust at sea level is 11,200 tons. With a thrust-to-weight ratio of 1.35, this corresponds to a starting mass of 8,300 tons. With a mass ratio of the payload (4%) to the launch mass, this will give up to 330 tons of payload per LEO.

    OK, but who in their right mind would ever develop such a booster?

    8,300 tons?  FFS, Saturn V or N-1 were both less than 3,000 tons.

    The idea of investing a mountain of cash and literally dozens (if not hundreds) of man-years into a 300+ tonne payload and orbiting it in one launch would give any program manager a heart attack.  SO much better to build 100 tonne modules and assemble what you want/need.

    That is certainly a valid point, but for military purposes time is critical and three launches take too long given the assembly lag in orbit. It also takes
    more launch pad resources since three pads are required at the same time. The number of pads available in Russia and the USA is very limited.

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    Post  PapaDragon Thu Jul 15, 2021 1:52 am


    This ancient piece of technology seems to be finally going in orbit (for better or worse, hopefully nobody pays for it with their lives)

    Here are details:
    Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #4 - Page 7 Img_20210714_153440-jpg

    Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #4 - Page 7 Sk_dark-jpg

    Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #4 - Page 7 Komponovka-2_dark-jpg

    Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #4 - Page 7 Komponovka-1_dark-jpg



    They even made a patch:
    Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #4 - Page 7 MRGcxXXgPQ8

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    Post  Big_Gazza Thu Jul 15, 2021 4:36 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    This ancient piece of technology seems to be finally going in orbit (for better or worse, hopefully nobody pays for it with their lives)

    You really feel the need to piss on the parade don't you?  Suspect

    Yeah we get it - funds were lacking, progress was slow, and then Krunichev really screwed the pooch with the metallic residues messing up the fuel system, but do you have to be such a spiteful censored ?

    Or is this just covering for your secret infatuation with Rogozin?  The offer for a Rogo tee-shirt still stands, just advise your size and a collection point.  Laughing
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    Post  PapaDragon Thu Jul 15, 2021 5:19 am

    Big_Gazza wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    This ancient piece of technology seems to be finally going in orbit (for better or worse, hopefully nobody pays for it with their lives)

    You really feel the need to piss on the parade don't you?  Suspect

    Yeah we get it - funds were lacking, progress was slow, and then Krunichev really screwed the pooch with the metallic residues messing up the fuel system, but do you have to be such a spiteful censored ?...

    I will be celebrating once this cobbled rusty deathtrap is safely detached from whatever ends up having misfortune of getting it attached to itself

    This isn't some Angosat-style nonsense for the lolz and memes, human lives are at stake now



    Big_Gazza wrote:Or is this just covering for your secret infatuation with Rogozin?  The offer for a Rogo tee-shirt still stands, just advise your size and a collection point.  

    Hard to get close to old Trampoline Man these days because it would require ungluing all y'all from his crotch, way too messy and disgusting for my weak stomach

    And I didn't even mention the fat retard to begin with, he sure does course trough your system in high volumes, does he? Cool



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    Post  Big_Gazza Thu Jul 15, 2021 11:16 am

    PapaDragon wrote:I will be celebrating once this cobbled rusty deathtrap is safely detached from whatever ends up having misfortune of getting it attached to itself

    This isn't some Angosat-style nonsense for the lolz and memes, human lives are at stake now

    So you choose to double-down and be an even bigger censored .

    Damn... you've really devolved into a complete prat.
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    Post  Daniel_Admassu Thu Jul 15, 2021 11:39 am

    Hardly can wait for July 21. Hoping for a successful launch and rendezvous. Proton to roll to its pad today. The launch was postponed from the previous date due to unspecified reasons. Anyone got any word on that?

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    Post  Big_Gazza Thu Jul 15, 2021 11:53 am

    Daniel_Admassu wrote:Hardly can wait for July 21. Hoping for a successful launch and rendezvous. Proton to roll to its pad today. The launch was postponed from the previous date due to unspecified reasons. Anyone got any word on that?

    The delay apparently due to a lack of thermal insulation blankets on star trackers used for navigation. It sounds like they were not allowed for originally, but a late decision was made to add them once their lack was raised publically. It was felt that they weren't needed but I guess management felt it was better to be safe than sorry.

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    Post  PapaDragon Thu Jul 15, 2021 5:28 pm

    Big_Gazza wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:I will be celebrating once this cobbled rusty deathtrap is safely detached from whatever ends up having misfortune of getting it attached to itself

    This isn't some Angosat-style nonsense for the lolz and memes, human lives are at stake now

    So you choose to double-down and be an even bigger censored .

    Damn... you've really devolved into a complete prat.

    Whatever helps you sleep at night

    At least I ain't fluffer fanboy

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    Post  owais.usmani Thu Jul 15, 2021 8:35 pm

    https://twitter.com/roscosmos/status/1415673398949081091

    English version of the #Nauka module brochure  for our English-speaking followers:

    To recap, the module is to launch to @Space_Station on July 21 at 14:58 UTC.

    https://www.roscosmos.ru/media/files/nauka.pdf

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    Post  George1 Fri Jul 16, 2021 10:56 am

    Russia’s Shvabe to unveil unique Avrora spacecraft optical device at MAKS-2021 expo

    https://tass.com/defense/1314339

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    Post  Kiko Fri Jul 16, 2021 10:48 pm

    US wants to buy new rocket engines from Russia, 16.07.2021.

    US wants to buy new rocket engines RD-181M from Russia.

    MOSCOW, July 16 - RIA Novosti. The Roscosmos enterprise, NPO Energomash , was allowed to negotiate with the American company Orbital Sciences on the supply of RD-181M rocket engines to the States . The government decree was published on the official portal of legal information.

    The proposal was made earlier by Roscosmos. They want to use the RD-181M liquid-propellant rocket engine in the Antares launch vehicle, which delivers cargo to the International Space Station and launches research and commercial spacecraft.

    As noted in the order, a contract for the supply of a new engine can be concluded if a number of conditions are met: including after receiving guarantees from the American side that Antares missiles with Russian engines will not be used "to launch military payloads."

    There is no information on the RD-181M engine on the Energomash website.

    Previously, Russia supplied the United States with two engines - RD-180 and RD-181. The RD-180 engine is used in the first stage of the Atlas-5 rocket. In total, according to Energomash, 122 engines have been sent to the States since 1999, of which 93 have already been used.

    The last batch of Russian RD-180 rocket engines was delivered to the United States in April. Washington told RIA Novosti that it intends to end the operation of Atlas missiles with RD-180s in the mid-2020s. To replace Atlas, they create a Vulcan rocket with American BE-4 engines from Blue Origin.

    The RD-181 engine is placed on the first stage of the Antares rocket (two each). In total, 22 engines have been delivered to the United States since 2015, of which 18 have already been used.

    https://ria.ru/20210716/roskosmos-1741616585.html

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