Yet you continuously call for hardline and hawkish actions like cutting trade ties for bad behaviour toward Russia. What gives?
Not cutting anything. Treat them like customers that are not friends, because they don't like Russia and wont ever come to like Russia, because Russia is not them and they are afraid that something other than them could succeed and be successful.
Russia should shift focus to expanding trade with the rest of the world... keep supplying gas to the EU and any part of the west that wants to buy it... even the Ukraine if they want it, but don't work hard and spend money to make it cheaper for them... work hard to make it exportable beyond Russian borders and around the world.
I think we all agree that it's the West's political elites who have chosen to frame Russia as the enemy, a real life Mordor that the Men of the West need to stand against. I can't think of more than a handful of notorious forum members who would deny that.
But it is more than just the elite... if a famous American or Britain said they liked Putin they would never work again, and most of the Sheeple in the west agree and don't bother to even think about why.
Putin is no an asshole that imposes crippling sanctions, he doesn't wield gas and energy and Titanium for aircraft around the world and rocket motors as weapons against the west... he must be weak so lets just keep attacking.
I agree Putin being an asshole and reacting to the west the way the west reacts to everyone they don't have control of would not be the solution, but Russia does not need the west at all so there is no point in grovelling to them begging for titbits off their table and small mercies.
Russia does not need to follow the west, or get approval from the west, its future is not with the west because the west deals with colonies... not with equals and Russia will never be anything but a resource colony of immense proportions for international companies to rape and pillage for a century or more.
The west will always try to limit the growth and development of Russia if given the chance, so Russia should look elsewhere for other trading partners that don't want to limit Russia and in turn don't want to be limited by Russia... like China, but like many other countries... countries that have their own problems and don't want to be lectured and told what has to be done by a country they buy oil or gas or titanium from.
It's a given, and as Alamo is saying, just deal with it.
There is nothing to deal with.... Russia offered a partnership with mutual benefits and the west is not interested in anything where Russia does not dance to their tunes, so Russia will sell them stuff and might buy some stuff from them if they are allowed to, but otherwise their future is elsewhere.
Over time the west might realise its mistake... the US is going to have to sabotage trade between Asia and the EU because they don't make any money in that situation... the question is... will the EU continue to do as they are told or will they look at the billions they are missing out on and just say... hey... we are adults and countries that can make our own decisions and we don't need US troops on out territories to keep ourselves safe from imaginary threats.
They might be worth talking to then, or maybe not even then.
But trade (and cultural, social, scientific ties etc. etc. etc.) need not be rashly sacrificed by zealots for short term 'revenge'.
Nothing to do with revenge... it is like an abusive marriage... at some point the woman has to realise that when he punches you in the face and breaks teeth and cheekbones he probably does not love you like you think he does. Equally as you are breaking skin with blood everywhere and it is your wifes blood you have to wonder how you got to doing that and that maybe you need to stop what you are doing and get real help.
You certainly don't pick your chin up and think this is the way that it is and continue on like it is normal.
These sanctions the west is imposing on Russia are meant to do damage, to hurt Russia, to limit its growth and development. To financially destroy companies and businesses... return sanctions are just doing the same thing to them.... it is by no means any sort of partnership I would want to be involved with and to be honest someone should call the police.... but at country level there is no police, because in this case the abuser thinks they are the self appointed world police, but also judge jury and executioner and can dole out punishment too.
I've already stated my admiration of President Putin for his cool, calm and calculated handling of Russia's affairs. And I think that's exactly what is needed. There's no need to cut off your nose to spite your face.
He has been very tolerant of a lot of bullshit, but there are only so many times you can say lets talk, lets cooperate more, lets solve some big issues and not let a few minor disagreements get in the way of civilised relations.
It hasn't worked for 20 years and he hasn't got another 20 to waste banging his head against a brick wall.
Respond asymmetrically to your enemy's moves, and set your own time and place to do so. Russia has and continues to respond in ways advantageous to itself to Western attacks and sanctions.
All very true and it should work against a rational opponent, but western politicians think Putin is just like them... slimy and for sale... and it will just take a little more pressure.... one more round of sanctions and he will break and do as we demand... for 20 years they thought he was Yeltsen. For 20 years he hasn't been.
They are not headline grabbers or big showy stunts that the Western media circus enjoys for pushing their own propaganda. But they're clearly working as by our own admission here, Russia's global power and relevance and prestige has actually been GROWING in spite of it all!
In spite of all western efforts to break Russia...yes... perhaps another reason they fear them...
hat's what happens when you play the patient game; the quiet, smart game.
No it isn't. Russia is a huge country with a diverse range of technologies and skills and talents... most countries put under this level of pressure like Cuba, like North Korea, like Iran, like Saddams Iraq, like Gaddafis Libya, like Milosovichs Serbia.... they all get crushed like a bug... not destroyed, but also not able to renew and restore their military to a level above what they were at at the end of the cold war or last good period.
China can do it too simply because even if you cut off China from the rest of the world they have enough of an internal market to keep their economy going, plus the west is the only bunch of psychos trying to limit growth and development in other countries... Russia and China will continue to cooperate and work together... not because they are buddies, but because they both want to grow and develop and recognise the west does not permit that in a trade "partner".
I've said it before, Russia should not aspire to be America.
I agree, but there is something worse... the west wants Russia to become what the EU are to the US.
Russia should have none of that... Russia can be Russia.
As an example, I like to point to Turkey's shooting down of Russia's Su-24 in 2015. Yes even today I read childish comments how soft is Russia and their apparent incapability of responding. Yet a larger observation the situation that followed (and evident even up to today) is that ALL of Turkey's ambitions were and have since been boxed in and hamstrung. Turkey may resort to throwing tantrums every so often it feels like bitching, but in the years since the shoot-down it's Russia who's been showing them who's the real top dog and who's the lap dog. And that's WITHOUT rashly responding like for like. There are smarter ways to bring one's adversaries to heel.
You can look back at comments on this forum... there were plenty who wanted blood but that would have achieved nothing except the useless tit for tat sanctions the west and Russia are stuck in a spiral of... led by the west of course.
Putins solution to the problem led to solutions that would not have been possible with any other response.
So let the Europeans spew their bile at Russia and relish being violated by Uncle Sam.
That is what I am suggesting... let them hurl abuse at Russia without response, but when uncle sam is short of gas and stops sending it then renegotiate terms regarding NSII and the other pipelines to get a better deal... and certainly don't enter trade agreements and deals that create strings for EU politicians to pull to try to control Russia.
Nothing lasts forever and sentiments are forever shifting.
Not much has shifted in the last 20 years, and without a serious problem the EU needs Russias help for I can't see it changing much in the future either.
I live in Dunedin New Zealand. We have a large port that has what is called a disappearing gun.... coastal artillery.
It was built at great expense but was not to stop the Germans or the Japs, it was not to stop the Soviets.... it was to stop the Russians... in the 1800s in New Zealand there was a fear the Russians were coming... and the fear is still there... as irrational as it is.
Many pretend it is about communism or some such shit, but it is fundamentally racist and is not going to change... most countries have areas they look down on... in the far north we have Aucklanders... we call them Jafas...just another fkn aucklander, who very occasionally come down here and complain because it is cold and remote, and express surprise we have indoor toilets now. It is the same for any country... in Australia it is Tasmanians.... sadly it is human nature, and it wont change.
You would be a fool to expect it too, but there is money to be made in the rest of the world and when both sides want to make a good profit but not at the expense of everyone and everything, then both sides can grow and develop and prosper... it has probably been what the west has been promising the rest of the world but has never delivered so far except by mistake... like with China.
Maintaining commerce/trade and an overall transactional type of relationship actually serves Russia better than it does the EU (certainly more profitable!).
Russia having commerce and trade relationships with the EU are just strings to cut... better to trade and commerce relationships with countries around the world, and keep the westerners out of it. (russian trade, I don't mean try to cockblock the west the way they try to cockblock Russia and China and everyone else... sometimes even each other).
How refreshing to hear a sane voice ...<snip>
No matter where, and no matter the real price.
I am agreeing with everything you said, but would ask you why you think Russia should bend over backwards and work hard and spend lots of money to get cheap energy to Germany when the west is acting this way?
Sure, sell them gas and make money but the west is fucked and it hates Russia and as time goes on that is not changing at all, so Russia should give up any ideas of partnership with the west... it is simply not something the west is ready for... Russia has managed to grow more than most countries in the last 20 years while being subjected to the sort of hostile bullshit from the west that destroys smaller weaker countries... and they know this because that was the intent... break them so they do as we tell them... not working so far but just one more sanction should do it right?
I am not suggesting punishing them or attacking them or damaging them except in kind in a reciprocal way as Putin has been doing... I am suggesting the rest of the world is out there... trade with them... grow and develop with them.
It happened not because Putin being a lunatic hawk, running around like a headless chicken, throwing Kalibres at anyone who disagrees.
I support Putin and what he has done and how he deals with things, but I notice he is no longer talking about western partners and it looking east and elsewhere.
Russia needs to build up its navy and its civilian fleet and start looking past the west and trade with the rest of the world.
Lets bomb the shit out of everybody let's close the pipes, let's throw the economic ties, arrest the foreigners as agents ... what a brilliant idea, and what a nice way to start a day.
Putin could easily have sold out Russia for personal gain and glory like Yeltsen did... I think Yeltsen believed the western bullshit and believed Bill Clinton was his friend... look where that led Russia.... essentially the same place the EU is heading in its partnership with the US because the devil does not share power with anyone... at the end of the day it is US interests that are to be satisfied first or at all.
Putin puts all the worlds politicians to shame, and continues to do so, by not being emotional, by being rational, and by putting the position and situation of Russia and the Russian people first... imagine having a leader like that?