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    Russia-Argentina potential military cooperation

    medo
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    Post  medo Tue Aug 05, 2014 5:19 pm

    Argentina till now was not a buyer of Russian weapons, but it seems, relations are getting better after Putin's visit in Argentina. After fiasco with Spanish Mirage-F1M fighters and latest bankrupt because of diss-agreement with some US debtors, maybe Argentinian army could start looking on Russian or Chinese armament for their armed forces. Maybe there is a chance, that Argentina could buy some air defense complexes or some fighters like Su-30MK2. For now they only buy a couple of Mi-17 helicopters.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Wed Aug 06, 2014 7:20 am

    Perhaps Russia could lease them a few submarines too.

    I wonder how a new low cost modern fighter would sell in central and south america... a MiG-21 for the 21st century with less emphasis on speed with a bit more range and much better payload that was cheap to buy and operate but sophisticated enough to be useful.

    A few MiG-29M2s would be an interesting start... add a couple of Su-30Ms and perhaps fit them with AESA radars and RVV-BD missiles and have 2-3 Flankers operate with 4-6 Fulcrums...

    Even just some new armour and light vehicles...
    medo
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    Post  medo Thu Aug 07, 2014 5:08 pm

    I think Su-30MK2 like Venezuela have could be the best option for Argentine as Argentina is quite big country and Su-30 have longer range and more powerful radar than Mig-29M2. Argentina should buy 24 of them to form 2 fighter squadrons. The other plane, they could buy or even produce in their FMA factory is radar equipped Yak-130, which could replace their aging A-4AR planes as Yak-130 have very similar capabilities, but have 2 engines and more hard points for weapons and full tanks. They could as well be equipped with IFR.
    redgiacomo
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    Post  redgiacomo Tue Aug 26, 2014 2:28 pm

    Argentina is going to become one of the best russian ally in South America. After the Argentinian financial problem Putin had a very advantageous meeting with president Kirchne. Infact she is quite disappointed about the American policy in Latin America and  Argentina will be closest to russia in the near future. We might expect a military order by the Argentine Air Force, especially  regarding  the hardwere that require a lot of maintenance and spare parts, such as fighter jets.

    I tried to post an external link but I'm a new member and I can't, but there are hundreds of news regarding this topic

    Hope Argentinian air force will be equipped with MIG-29M2/MIG-35.

    sorry for my english Smile I'm not very good in writing
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Wed Aug 27, 2014 12:07 pm

    The UK reaction to Argentine MiG-35s would be interesting... a long range AESA radar and RVV-BD AAMs with a range of 280km would be very destabilising in the region... would be like selling machine guns to the natives...
    redgiacomo
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    Post  redgiacomo Wed Aug 27, 2014 9:23 pm

    Of course British reaction will not be positive. But you know couse of the UK Argentina has problem in buying any type of supersonic jet ( A frind of mine is an ex-argentinian pilot of Mirage, he is quite a fascist but he told me lot of interesting stories about the FAA), so they have another motivation to buy Russian made fighter. Russia is a stable and friendly country, i really can't find a better seller for the FAA
    Yes MIG-35 is a very interesting aircraft, I think they will enjoy it. Even the combat radius is not too bad for the big country.
    Mike E
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    Post  Mike E Thu Aug 28, 2014 12:57 am

    GarryB wrote:The UK reaction to Argentine MiG-35s would be interesting... a long range AESA radar and RVV-BD AAMs with a range of 280km would be very destabilising in the region... would be like selling machine guns to the natives...

    The West seems to love destabilization, so they should get a taste of their own medicine!
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Thu Aug 28, 2014 12:32 pm

    If you listen to the US State Department any US sale of weapons to a US ally promotes peace and stability in that region. Any one else supplies anyone with weapons and it is a worrying development that will upset peace and stability in the region...
    redgiacomo
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    Post  redgiacomo Thu Aug 28, 2014 2:16 pm

    Yes, when USA offers uranium shells and phosphorus bombsto to Israel it's all right. When Russia aid Syria to fight
    fundamentalists with conventional weapons it's, as you say "a worrying development that will upset peace and stability in the region"
    But you know one good thing about this year is that Russia now doesn't cares of USA ( Russia will start a military cooperation with Iran, for example)
    Hannibal Barca
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    Post  Hannibal Barca Thu Aug 28, 2014 5:14 pm

    redgiacomo wrote:Yes, when USA offers uranium shells and phosphorus bombsto to Israel it's all right. When Russia aid Syria to fight
    fundamentalists with conventional weapons it's, as you say  "a worrying development that will upset peace and stability in the region"
    But you know one good thing about this year is that Russia now doesn't cares of USA ( Russia will start a military cooperation with Iran, for example)


    Go to a relevant topic Giacomo and
    Tell us about the situation in Italy.
    What the people are thinking? Do they love West? USA? NATO? What do they think now with the crisis?
    redgiacomo
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    Post  redgiacomo Thu Aug 28, 2014 5:25 pm

    I will do it gladly Smile I'm creating a new topic right now.
    medo
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    Post  medo Sun Sep 21, 2014 8:32 pm

    http://en.mercopress.com/2014/09/20/argentina-s-defense-budget-with-many-pledges-but-not-much-beef

    In last year's presentation of the 2014 defense budget, the bill said that the Air Force was planning to incorporate Mirage I, which had belonged to the Spanish Air Force, to replace the Mirage III. However later and apparently because of costs the option turned to Israel Kfir fighter bombers, similar to the Mirages but so far it has been but a wish.

    It seems Argentina's wish to buy Kfir planes from Israel will stay only wish as there is not enough money for it. Maybe this is a chance for Russia, to propose Argentina buying Russian planes in Argentina's currency and with compensation with increased export of food and goods from Argentina to Russia.
    medo
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    Post  medo Sun Dec 28, 2014 3:41 pm

    http://defence-blog.com/?p=2520

    Argentina Buying Russian All-weather Attack Aircraft Su-24. President Putin’s visit to Argentina in July laid the groundwork for exchanging Russian military hardware for wheat, beef and other goods Moscow needs due to EU food embargoes.

    The deal involves a lease/lend of 12 Sukhoi Su-24 supersonic, all-weather attack aircraft. They are ageing but Nato still regards what it codenames “Fencers” as “super-fighters”, with their 2,000-mile range and laser-guided missiles. The aircraft, which Moscow will swap for beef and wheat, would be able to mount air patrols over Port Stanley.

    I think Russia will lease those Su-24 to Argentina for free for few years and in the mean time Argentina could buy new Su-30 or MiG-29M/35 fighters.
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    Post  Viktor Sun Dec 28, 2014 3:56 pm

    medo wrote:http://defence-blog.com/?p=2520

    Argentina Buying Russian All-weather Attack Aircraft Su-24. President Putin’s visit to Argentina in July laid the groundwork for exchanging Russian military hardware for wheat, beef and other goods Moscow needs due to EU food embargoes.

    The deal involves a lease/lend of 12 Sukhoi Su-24 supersonic, all-weather attack aircraft. They are ageing but Nato still regards what it codenames “Fencers” as “super-fighters”, with their 2,000-mile range and laser-guided missiles. The aircraft, which Moscow will swap for beef and wheat, would be able to mount air patrols over Port Stanley.

    I think Russia will lease those Su-24 to Argentina for free for few years and in the mean time Argentina could buy new Su-30 or MiG-29M/35 fighters.

    And in a future Su-24 might become Su-34 with 3 air launched Brahmos per plane Very Happy
    medo
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    Post  medo Sun Dec 28, 2014 6:01 pm

    I doubt. Argentina more need a fighter, than a bomber. I think they will likely buy MiG-29M or Su-30 fighers, maybe even MiG-29K/KUB as they are better protected for sea operations as carrier based fighter.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Mon Dec 29, 2014 9:28 am

    Wow... Fencers... a very capable aircraft.

    I wonder what sort of weapons they will buy... a few Kh-59M missiles would be interesting...
    Viktor
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    Post  Viktor Fri Jan 16, 2015 9:18 pm

    Nice Very Happy

    Rossi: Argentina is considering the purchase of helicopters in Russia
    Kyo
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    Post  Kyo Sat Jan 17, 2015 8:25 pm

    Russia may supply Su-24 aircraft on a lease basis
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sun Jan 18, 2015 10:23 am

    The upgraded Su-24 is still a very capable aircraft and can carry a range of weapons.

    The Argentine Air Force was very capable of hitting British ships with a range of weapons including dumb bombs and Exocet anti ship missiles.

    The Su-24 would offer a range of guided missiles and guided bombs that would make the job much easier and the effect much more dire for the British.

    Even just a new model Kh-31 anti ship missile with a range of 240km at mach 3 would be a whole different threat for any British Task Force.

    I suspect the leasing deal could simply be a ploy by the Russians to get cheap food, for the Argentines to get experience in a more modern air craft, and of course for both sides to increase the cost for Britain to hold the Falklands.

    After a few years experience with Su-24s they could look at Su-30s or other options... like MiG-29M2s... that would not be too expensive, yet would offer serious capability that four Eurofighters would simply be insufficient for.
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    Post  Kyo Sun Jan 18, 2015 9:40 pm

    An arrangement of Su-24 plus Kh-31 should make Argentine reign over the South Atlantic area, something its ally Brazil should have realized had it incorporated the Su-35 in its fighter tender. But it didn't, thus falling short of being considered a burlesque banana republic.
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    Post  George1 Sun Jan 18, 2015 9:53 pm

    Kyo wrote:An arrangement of Su-24 plus Kh-31 should make Argentine reign over the South Atlantic area, something its ally Brazil should have realized had it incorporated the Su-35 in its fighter tender. But it didn't, thus falling short of being considered a burlesque banana republic.

    i think that in this economic situation, even su-24s are not affordable for Argentina
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    Post  Viktor Sun Jan 18, 2015 9:55 pm

    George1 wrote:i think that in this economic situation, even su-24s are not affordable for Argentina

    Keep in mind that payment may come in many forms.
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    Post  Kyo Sun Jan 18, 2015 10:44 pm

    i think that in this economic situation, even su-24s are not affordable for Argentina
    It could be on an exchange of goods (food for weapons) basis, using local currencies and therefore by-passing the use of US$ and Euro. This mechanism is being implemented by Russia/China in their trade agreements.
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    Post  GarryB Mon Jan 19, 2015 8:49 am

    Keep in mind that the EU has already threatened countries not to trade with Russia and take up "their" contracts while Russia is banning imports from the countries that are putting them under sanction.

    What I think the EU and NATO might not realise that these alternative sources Russia is exploring are likely permanent new trade relations and if they can get these links up and running properly they might not go back to buying from the economic trade block called the EU.

    Such realisation might be a harder pill to swallow than Su-24s in Argentina.

    Leasing today could mean gifted aircraft in the future as they are withdrawn from Russian AF service...

    They might do the same with Iran to encourage a future upgrade, perhaps to a modified Su-30M or a cheaper simpler model of the Su-34... perhaps with interceptor versions also developed which would be useful to both countries.
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    Post  Kyo Wed Jan 28, 2015 1:13 am

    Meanwhile, Argentina's ally Brazil is just falling short of being labelled a 'banana republic' with its Gripen, Harpoons, P-3 Orions and stuff. Instead of incorporating Su-35s in its recent fighter tender, which would enable Brazil a South Atlantic predominance over UKs Eurofighters, it settled on one-engined (US-made) Gripen NG to be delivered from 2019 on. All this slant over US hardware is a consequence of the Brazilian militaries' fear of threats towards EMBRAER's aerospace industry (which is also American but located in Brazil, btw) as retaliation if it opted for advanced Russian Su-35s and KH-31 anti-ship missiles.

    Argentina and UK Falklands spat spiced up by Russian jets

    The Falkland Islands - a UK overseas territory Argentina lays claim to - have been allegedly reviewing their defenses after news Russia may offer Argentina fighter jets. Moscow could swap them for beef and wheat, UK's Daily Express says in its report.

    The deal reportedly involves a lease/lend of twelve Sukhoi Su-24 all-weather attack aircraft, which NATO calls "Fencer A". The jets will be able to do air patrols over the Falklands' capital, Port Stanley. According to the tabloid, Ministry of Defense officials fear Buenos Aires will take delivery of the planes well before the 2020 deployment of the Navy’s 65,000-tonne aircraft carrier HMS Queen Elizabeth and its F-35B fighters, leaving a “real window of vulnerability.”

    Up to 1,500 troops, backed by a naval warship that visits throughout the year, are permanently based on the Falklands, along with four RAF Typhoon jets, plus anti-aircraft and artillery batteries.

    The Falklands, called 'Las Malvinas' by the Argentinians, have belonged to Britain since the 1830s. Argentina insists the islands are theirs by virtue of their proximity to the South American mainland. In 1982 Buenos Aires lost a brief war with Britain over the islands. Under the Constitution, the UK is responsible for the islands' foreign affairs, retaining the power "to protect UK interests and to ensure the overall good governance of the territory." Nonetheless, the islands have their own internal government. Last March, Falkland islanders held a referendum, voting by 1,513 to three to remain a British overseas territory. Russia supports Argentina's bid for direct bilateral talks with Britain on sovereignty of the islands.

    Russia has been developing friendly ties with Argentina since 2010, when it signed a "historic" contract with Buenos Aires and delivered two Mi17 assault helicopters to serve in the country's national Air Force. The sale was the first time the Argentinean military had bought Russian military hardware.

    President Vladimir Putin’s visit to Argentina in July 2014 also helped boost relations between the countries, possibly paving the way for exchanging Russian military hardware for food and goods. Russia banned food imports from the US, along with goods from the EU, Norway, Australia and Canada, after Putin ordered retaliation for sanctions against Russia over the Ukraine crisis.

    Buenos Aires needs to replace its depleted fighter fleet. In October, Defense Minister Agustin Rossi announced the purchase of 24 Saab Gripen fighters, which were to have been provided by Brazil. It would have been the first major purchase of new military aircraft by Buenos Aires since the Falklands War three decades ago. However, the deal was called off because some of the jet’s parts were made in the UK.

    The seabed around Falklands is believed to contain copious oil reserves. While oil companies have conducted large-scale exploration, exploitation of the reserves hasn’t yet been launched. Tensions between the UK and Argentina escalated in 2010 when a British company began exploring for oil near the Falklands' waters. Argentina introduced new rules in response, requiring all ships travelling to the Falklands through its waters to have a permit.

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