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    Russian Civil Aviation: News #4

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    Gazputin


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    Russian Civil Aviation: News #4 - Page 33 Empty converging technology

    Post  Gazputin Mon Jun 06, 2022 9:53 am

    as I was saying the other day .... converging technologies
    tech used in nuke subs will go into to MC-21 and SSJ-100

    ROSATOM TO SUPPLY SUPERJET MANUFACTURER WITH TITANIUM PIPES INSTEAD OF IMPORTED ONES

    Chepetsk Mechanical Plant (CHMZ JSC, an enterprise of the fuel division of Rosatom TVEL) will supply a test batch of
    titanium pipes from the manufacturer of Russian passenger aircraft Superjet and MS-21. This was reported on Monday by
    the press service of TVEL.
    "The fuel division of Rosatom represented by CHMP JSC will supply a test batch of titanium pipes to Promtech-Dubna
    JSC, a manufacturer of aircraft pipeline systems for Russian Superjet and MS-21 passenger aircraft," the report said.

    Previously, JSC "Promtech-Dubna" purchased components from European suppliers. The agreement on the supply of
    import-substituting products was reached during the business dialogue "From import substitution to import independence",
    organized by TVEL and the divisional integrator in the direction of "Metallurgy" - the company "Rusatom MetalTech".

    "TVEL Fuel Company is ready to expand its capacities for a comfortable transition of Russian industry to domestic
    products. The combination of scientific and production competencies within the same industry allows us to respond as
    effectively as possible to new challenges, ensure the confident operation of enterprises and consolidate stability in the
    supply of the domestic market," Natalia Nikipelova, President of TVEL JSC, said.

    For the manufacturer of equipment for the nuclear submarine fleet and shipbuilding - OKBM Afrikantov (an enterprise of
    Rosatom) - JSC "CmZ" will supply and establish mass deliveries of five new nomenclatures of titanium pipes with ultrafine
    grain. In Russia, only CMP JSC has the technology for manufacturing such high-tech types of pipes with increased
    strength properties, the report says.

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    Gazputin


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    Russian Civil Aviation: News #4 - Page 33 Empty another interesting bit of news on converging technologies .... MAI and satellites

    Post  Gazputin Mon Jun 06, 2022 12:19 pm

    Moscow Aviation Institute
    they have their own "student" factory OSBE
    they built the prototype LMS-901 Baikal aircraft and helped in its design
    they also do most of the light aviation designs in Russia eg MAI-411
    and therefore do a lot of work with composites and lightweight structures

    and now ....
    here they are getting involved in another field where technologies are also converging - satellites
    Reshetnev typically build big satellites

    MAI AND ISS WILL JOINTLY DEVELOP SATELLITE BUILDING TECHNOLOGIES

    "Rector of the Moscow Aviation Institute Mikhail Pogosyan visited the company "Information Satellite Systems" named after Academician M. F. Reshetnev "(ISS, part of the State Corporation "Roscosmos").

    At the meeting with the General Director of the ISS Nikolay Testoedov, Mikhail Pogosyan took part in the discussion of a wide range of issues related to the development of cooperation between the enterprise and the university.
    One of the areas of cooperation will be the creation of promising satellite building technologies.

    During the visit to the enterprise, the rector of MAI visited the antenna and assembly production. He was shown the achievements of Siberian satellite builders in the manufacture of large-sized transformable reflectors and other elements of space technology based on modern composite materials.

    Mikhail Poghosyan assessed the company's readiness for serial production of satellites as part of the implementation of the state subprogram "Sphere". He noted that today the interaction between ISS and MAI is reaching a comprehensive level.

    This applies to both composite designs and the development of small-sized radars for small spacecraft. And in general - the ideology of using small satellites to solve promising problems of creating a new environment, - explained the rector of MAI. -

    Our teams will solve problems related to the organization of serial production of small spacecraft."

    .... Roscosmos company interacting with the civil aviation field once again .....



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    Backman
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    Russian Civil Aviation: News #4 - Page 33 Empty Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #4

    Post  Backman Mon Jun 06, 2022 10:09 pm

    lancelot wrote: Since the Chinese aircraft which could be an alternative will also be using Western components for the foreseeable future.

    .

    That whole thing is going to come to an end here fairly soon. Especially when the Republicans get in. China will be denied western aircraft components and engines just like Russia is, in the next couple years. They have already sanctioned China's civil aircraft sector. But next time that file is opened, it will be cut to nothing.

    Which is good for Russia and China. The sooner the better

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    Russian Civil Aviation: News #4 - Page 33 Empty Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #4

    Post  GarryB Tue Jun 07, 2022 8:28 am

    Russian companies need to take the initiative and offer their equipment.... especially important they could sweeten the deal by offering to include chinese components if there is no Russian alternative... even if they licence produce the components in Russia...
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    Russian Civil Aviation: News #4 - Page 33 Empty Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #4

    Post  lancelot Tue Jun 07, 2022 9:35 am

    I said it here before but I think Russia should offer to build production facilities for the Superjet and MC-21 in India, China, and probably Indonesia in exchange for aircraft sales.
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    Gazputin


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    Russian Civil Aviation: News #4 - Page 33 Empty interesting subject isn't it

    Post  Gazputin Wed Jun 08, 2022 11:23 am

    Russia's big problem is - it is primarily a commodity seller .... not buyer
    when you are a buyer .... you then leverage back and get the commodity supplier to buy your finished goods .... to balance the trade
    as China can and is doing
    (and England did re its Empire .... )

    anyway ..... I am totally convinced that the converging of technologies is playing into the hands of Russia
    as Russia has such a broad scientific and tech base

    I also agree that we are rapidly heading towards a "technology apartheid"
    re G7 ..... vs the entire developing world
    (G7 of course control 80% of world media ..... so we are fed vomit day-in day-out)

    re West
    they will try to hold onto and control those areas that require huge upfront capital expenditure
    which then create huge barriers to entry for newcomers
    eg CPUs ..... Airliners ..... large ships/engines
    the plan is fairly obvious

    and that is exactly where Rus and China combined scare the shit out of the G7 ....
    Rus tech and China mkt size ..... combined completely nullifies the G7 strategy

    I assume you guys have read The Grand Chessboard by Brezizinski ?
    the battle for control of Eurasia

















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    Backman
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    Russian Civil Aviation: News #4 - Page 33 Empty Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #4

    Post  Backman Fri Jun 10, 2022 1:34 am

    lancelot wrote:I said it here before but I think Russia should offer to build production facilities for the Superjet and MC-21 in India, China, and probably Indonesia in exchange for aircraft sales.

    Yes. If the choice is no sales to India or production sharing then you go for production sharing. Those are probably the only choices with India.
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    Post  LMFS Mon Jun 13, 2022 12:21 pm

    Serial production of Russian aircraft will be launched within 3-5 years-Deputy Prime Minister Borisov

    13.06.2022 12:27:24
    Moscow. June 13. Mass production of domestic aircraft for the formation of the Russian fleet may take from three to five years, Deputy Prime Minister Yuri Borisov said.
    "We need to work intensively for three to five years to reach mass production in the required number of aircraft of various classes," Borisov said in an interview with RBC TV channel.
    According to him, the authorities hope that from 2023, in the amount of about 20 units, production of Sukhoi Superjet New aircraft will begin from completely domestic components, including the PD-8 engine; from 2024 - MS-21. "In 2024, we hope to receive the first six vehicles (MS-21 - IF) purely domestic, with PD-14 engines. We will continue to increase production many times over, " the Deputy Prime Minister said.
    "We also forgot about regional aircraft-IL-114, Baikal, L-410, Il-610. There is still a wide range of aircraft on the way, which will provide new logistics for transportation, " Borisov added.
    Answering the question about the continuation of cooperation between Russian airlines with Boeing and Airbus, Borisov noted that he does not expect the sanctions to be lifted soon. "It will probably take a long time, but I think that to some extent the relations will be restored. You know that the same Boeing and Airbus depend on the supply of our titanium. One way or another, it is still impossible to interrupt 100% of the connection," Borisov said.

    https://www.militarynews.ru/story.asp?rid=1&nid=576327&lang=RU

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    Post  lancelot Mon Jun 13, 2022 12:29 pm

    The date for entry into production of the SSJ-New is just too optimistic.
    The PD-8 engine has not even flown on a flying test platform yet.
    caveat emptor
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    Post  caveat emptor Mon Jun 13, 2022 3:11 pm

    lancelot wrote:The date for entry into production of the SSJ-New is just too optimistic.
    The PD-8 engine has not even flown on a flying test platform yet.
    Maybe 2024, but 2025 should be possible if it starts flying this year. Large parts of the engine are already known and tested. And hot part is scaled down from PD-14, so not entirely new concept.
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    Post  GarryB Tue Jun 14, 2022 1:50 am

    (G7 of course control 80% of world media ..... so we are fed vomit day-in day-out)

    The G7 and the west is controlled by the US and right now it is the US and EU that hold the technology strings and they get countries in the third world to make their products for them on the cheap... they are not fussy and will set up production anywhere and in the past that included Japan and Malaysia and South Korea and China and Indonesia and India and Pakistan... the countries were not chosen to boost their economies or to help them in any way, they were chosen because labour was cheap and abundant and labour laws didn't exist so you could fire workers any time you liked for any reason at all and there would be 200 people there the next day wanting their place. Workers could be injured or killed and you pay the family $500 and it is all sorted out, no further action required... compared to the west where it would need to be investigated and issues identified and lots of new safety equipment bought and new procedures implimented that will slow down production and make it more expensive....

    The whole point of HATO was to keep Russia and the EU apart because if they actually worked together... what would the EU need the US for?

    All the EU had to do was treat Russia with some respect and cooperate with it instead of ordering it about like it was a damn native... and they couldn't do that.

    Essentially condemning themselves to being the damn native for the Americans... I love that irony BTW... we want to sell our gas to you but you are getting gas from Russia at a quarter the price and no wait time, so we will sabotage that and you can pay 6 times more for the little gas we produce which can't cover your needs and so you have to scramble to find other ways of filling the deficit... but that is your problem.

    BTW this attitude that things will get back to normal... it wont... no matter what happened... even if Kiev invaded the Crimea, the west would blame Russia for it and be imposing the same sanctions... this is judgement day in the sense that there are no alternative paths Russia could have taken to avoid it... except become the bitch the west wants it to be... or murder the 1% and deep state in the US systematically and hope whomever replaces them shows a bit more respect.

    Personally I think the current situation is the best of the three options... it is not Russias job to save the west from the criminally insane people in charge of their countries... if the people of the west can't be bothered, why should Russia?

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    Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E


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    Post  Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E Sat Jun 18, 2022 4:49 pm

    In my view, it is also necessary to put on the TU-214 with a PD-14m program and bring it to test form. It is not certain whether the MC-21 can be made entirely and promptly with Russian components. In order to ensure a expansion of the PD-14 production, the TU-214 program should help here. Especially since it has advantages with a view of later IL-76 with PD-14m.
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    Post  wilhelm Sat Jun 18, 2022 8:50 pm

    I tend to agree.
    People forget that whilst obviously the Boeing 737 is much older than the Tu-204/214, the Airbus A320 also is older than the Tu-204/214.
    Both the A320 and 737 are still in production, and the larger variants of the 737 being built are sold as a replacement for the Boeing 757.
    Both A320 and 737 were modernised.
    The Tu-204/214 would benefit greatly from a new engine.

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    Post  GarryB Sun Jun 19, 2022 3:23 am

    Even if it is not as good as the new Superjet and MS-21, they are good enough for teh Russian military in the various roles that rather older generation airliners filled... the Il-38 and Il-20/22, as well as the Tu-134 and Tu-154M were never super planes but they were very useful aircraft for the military in a wide range of roles, so Tu-214 already is being used by the Russian military in a few roles so making more would allow them to fill a few more roles currently being filled by now obsolete types.

    The newer planes have composites and other experimental stuff which is probably a risk that is not really warranted for most of the roles the Russian military wants these planes for... slightly shorter range and slightly higher fuel consumption is not a problem... reliability and safety record is rather more important... as well as being a big rugged too...

    They have the production facilities for these aircraft, plus they are related to the Tu-330 transport plane design in the 35 ton payload range... which I think would be useful... aircraft are not normally used to carry armour but the previous generation of planes.... AN-12 at 20 tons and Il-76 at 40 tons were OK for BTRs and BMPs and older model tanks, but newer vehicles need heavier weight classes... Boomerang and Kurganets are in the 30-35 ton weight range, and the Armata is in the 50-55 ton weight range... and the Typhoon range of vehicles in the 15-20 ton range so Il-276 for Typhoons, Tu-330 for Boomerangs and Kurganets, and Il-476 for the Armata family... of course rail and ship would be the normal transport means, but having air options is not bad.

    Perhaps a turboprop version of the Tu-330 could be proposed to replace the An-70 for the VDV...
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    Post  JohninMK Sun Jun 19, 2022 10:16 am

    Backman wrote:
    lancelot wrote:I said it here before but I think Russia should offer to build production facilities for the Superjet and MC-21 in India, China, and probably Indonesia in exchange for aircraft sales.

    Yes. If the choice is no sales to India or production sharing then you go for production sharing. Those are probably the only choices with India.

    As I have said before, fly bare aircraft to India to get local fitout and final finishing by a local joint company, which fits in with the 'made in India' strategy. Just as Boeing/Airbus do into China but go further and allow India to sell on the completed aircraft to other countries.

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    Russian Civil Aviation: News #4 - Page 33 Empty yes

    Post  Gazputin Sun Jun 19, 2022 12:03 pm

    that's the obvious answer
    all exports via 3rd countries

    but in reality Rus is really out of the global mkt for at least 5 years

    I did see that the CR929 is now 100% Rus or Chinese components
    not that it is a big deal for Rus
    for the Chinese widebodies are 737s .... Rus doesn't have the population to support a lot of widebodies

    meanwhile
    everyone knows that the 737 is a piece of shit
    but the reality of flying in the USA (god help you.... if you haven't experienced it)
    737s are just flying Greyhound buses ..... but less sophisticated
    I have never flown on more fucked up airlines in my life ..... as the crap they serve up as "airlines"
    (my advice .... only take carry carry-on luggage .... I still have a suitcase I despise .... it has been to Hawaii and I haven't)

    in reality .... Rus and China need to team up to take on Boeing and Airbus
    you need a complete service not just planes



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    Post  GarryB Sun Jun 19, 2022 1:24 pm

    Without titanium and aluminium and other bits they were getting from Russia Boeing and Airbus wont get through this totally unscathed either, and the rest of the world wont wait 5 years for Russian stuff... they have not imposed any sanctions on Russia over this conflict... that was the west which is only a tiny portion of the international community... though certainly the loudest and most outspoken... but they are not as popular as they think they are.

    They are that guy at the golf who shouts out "get in the hole" every time a golfer hits the ball towards the flag...
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    Post  Kiko Wed Jun 22, 2022 2:22 pm

    This is not much since costs should be spread between SSJ and MS-21 for most parts.

    Import substitution for SSJ100 will cost 50 billion rubles, excluding engines, 22.06.2022.

    UAC decided on what needs to be localized for the Russian aircraft.

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    Russian Civil Aviation: News #4 - Page 33 Empty Roscosmos and engines .... and electronics

    Post  Gazputin Thu Jun 23, 2022 1:58 am


    The volume of engine production at Roscosmos enterprises has increased dramatically, including due to work in the direction of aircraft engines.
    "The engine industry is growing strongly.

    On the one hand, we stopped supplying engines to the United States, where the volume of orders and work fell.

    On the other hand, we have now picked up the topic of aircraft engines and are working on PD-8, PD-14, PS-90 and reversers for aircraft,"
    said Dmitry Rogozin, Director General of Roscosmos State Corporation.
    https://tass.ru/kosmos/14992277

    🛰 The entry of the Yaroslavl Radio Plant into the Russian Space Systems (part of Roscosmos) made it possible to reduce the cost of manufacturing equipment and increase efficiency.
    Details in the material "Gazeta.ru": https://www.gazeta.ru/science/news/2022/06/21/17977010.shtml

    Rogozin isn't stupid - he is obviously working on new spaceplanes too - so the synergies are obvious to him

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    Russian Civil Aviation: News #4 - Page 33 Empty some other bits of news - Aeroflot and Tu-214

    Post  Gazputin Thu Jun 23, 2022 2:16 am


    June 22, 2022, AviaStat.ru - The fleet of aircraft currently operated in the Russian Federation by the end of 2025 will remain at least by 70%, said Igor Chalik, Deputy Head of the Ministry of Transport. About this writes Interfax.
    Such a forecast, according to him, is included in the development strategy of the aviation industry until 2030. The draft strategy was approved by the government.

    https://www.aex.ru/news/2022/6/22/245184/

    and this re Tu-214 and Aeroflot
    this makes sense to me - all Russian and long range

    Aeroflot has chosen the aircraft as the main one in the future fleet
    The Tu-214 is one of the models that airlines, in particular Aeroflot, are also considering as one of the basic models that it will slowly switch to in the process.

    https://topcor.ru/26377-ajeroflot-vybral-samolet-v-kachestve-osnovnogo-v-buduschem-aviaparke.html

    In early June, it became known that Russian aircraft manufacturers will receive the largest order in history for civil aircraft. The customer will be Aeroflot Airlines, which should be supplied with more than 300 Sukhoi Superjet 100 (SSJ100), MS-21 and Tu-214 aircraft.

    .... you would think S7 airlines would be after the Tu-214 too ....

    makes sense .... fly the MC-21 exclusively in Russia for the first few years ..... until it is well established


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    Post  lancelot Thu Jun 23, 2022 2:53 pm

    See. Aeroflot could have been flying those Tu-214 all along instead of giving money to Airbus to buy A320s.
    Thanks a lot Gaidar.

    Aeroflot could not bear to use the Tu-214, so "obsolete" it was, and now almost two decades afterwards, it turns out it is ok after all.
    Aeroflot had Tu-214 in service at one point, and got rid of all of them, they had Superjets, and sent them to Rossiya Airlines.
    These are your so called "efficient managers". Never occurred to them, as a state owned company, to work with the national aviation industry and solve any problems which might have existed. No sir.

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    Post  Broski Thu Jun 23, 2022 5:43 pm

    lancelot wrote:See. Aeroflot could have been flying those Tu-214 all along instead of giving money to Airbus to buy A320s.
    Thanks a lot Gaidar.

    Aeroflot could not bear to use the Tu-214, so "obsolete" it was, and now almost two decades afterwards, it turns out it is ok after all.
    Aeroflot had Tu-214 in service at one point, and got rid of all of them, they had Superjets, and sent them to Rossiya Airlines.
    These are your so called "efficient managers". Never occurred to them, as a state owned company, to work with the national aviation industry and solve any problems which might have existed. No sir.
    Airbus and Boeing "gift" (bribe) these managers a hell of a lot more than Tupolev, that's for sure.

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    Post  Backman Fri Jun 24, 2022 12:37 am

    LMFS wrote:[b]Russian en
    Be-200 amphibious aircraft were equipped with D-436 engines produced by the Ukrainian "Motor Sich", but Ukraine banned their delivery to Russia. Be-200s are delivered to the Russian Ministry of Emergency Situations and the Navy.

    https://www.militarynews.ru/story.asp?rid=1&nid=574350&lang=RU

    It would sure be nice to know what the plan is for Motor Sich. They should prioritize taking it. They need those engines. They don't need them , but they are there. And Motor Sich was paid for by Russia.

    With the kinds of sanctions coming down , Motor Sich will come very handy. I'd imagine the TU 214 had Motor Sich engines
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Fri Jun 24, 2022 2:05 am

    Backman wrote:

    It would sure be nice to know what the plan is for Motor Sich. They should prioritize taking it. They need those engines. They don't need them , but they are there. And Motor Sich was paid for by Russia.

    With the kinds of sanctions coming down , Motor Sich will come very handy. I'd imagine the TU 214 had Motor Sich engines

    factories will be damaged and likely many machinery "evacuated" to traders. Engineering / scientific teams likely to be incomplete after junta is over. Not sure what value this would add to Motor Sich?
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    Post  wilhelm Fri Jun 24, 2022 7:28 am

    Backman wrote:


    With the kinds of sanctions coming down , Motor Sich will come very handy. I'd imagine the TU 214 had Motor Sich engines

    The Tu-214 uses the PS-90 engine made by Aviadvigatel.
    It's never used, nor been mooted to use, an engine from Motor Sich.
    Motor Sich doesn't have an engine in the thrust bracket for the Tu-214.

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