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    Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

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    Post  Big_Gazza on 21/05/20, 04:31 pm

    Isos wrote:Just saw the dates of the one already build, they needed around 5 years to launch the first two but 8 years for the 3rd one Golovko. Wtf happened ?

    Lack of engines. They needed the components delivered before the Banderite putsch for the first 2 units, then needed 5 years to develop their own MGTs and gearboxes. One advantage of the forced delay is that had the time to thoroughly debug the many brand new sensor & weapon systems on the 1st pre-serial unit, and now the RuN will receive a series of robust and effective warships without an absurdly-long Zumwalt/Ford-style defect list.
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    Post  marat on 22/05/20, 07:50 pm

    https://tass.com/defense/1159349

    ST. PETERSBURG, May 22. /TASS/. The St. Petersburg-based Severnaya Shipyard (part of the United Shipbuilding Corporation) floated out the Project 22350 third-built and second serial-produced frigate Admiral Golovko, the Shipyard told TASS on Friday.
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    Post  Hole on 23/05/20, 12:12 am

    Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov - Page 21 22350_12
    Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov - Page 21 22350_13

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    Post  ultimatewarrior on 23/05/20, 02:07 am

    marat wrote:https://tass.com/defense/1159349

    ST. PETERSBURG, May 22. /TASS/. The St. Petersburg-based Severnaya Shipyard (part of the United Shipbuilding Corporation) floated out the Project 22350 third-built and second serial-produced frigate Admiral Golovko, the Shipyard told TASS on Friday.

    Well, I'll be damned. Russia is still working. Never write Russia off I say Cool
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    Post  Hole on 23/05/20, 02:02 pm

    Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov - Page 21 22-86610
    George1
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    Post  George1 on 23/05/20, 03:24 pm

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    Post  mnztr on 24/05/20, 10:10 am

    It will be interesting to watch the sea trials of this one with the Russian built turbines. The 22350s are really sharp looking ships.
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    Post  GarryB on 24/05/20, 10:20 am

    Well, I'll be damned. Russia is still working. Never write Russia off I say

    Yet you so often do...

    You do understand that if they didn't lay down these ships that doesn't mean they were lying... it means they changed their plans.

    If I say I am going to the beach tomorrow and then tomorrow comes and it is pissing down rain and I don't go, that does not make me a liar... it just makes me wrong.

    BTW if it is pissing down rain and I go to the beach anyway because I said I was going makes me a fucking idiot...

    You could argue that I should have looked at the weather forecast before I made my plans, but in this case who could possibly have foreseen a global pandemic?

    Even right now we don't know when things will go back to normal, so making any new plans right now would be a nightmare...

    Planning things is not simply a question of desire... I might really really want to go to the beach, but it makes no sense if it is raining and cold and I wont enjoy it.

    For laying down a ship you need somewhere that can lay the ship down and there are not a lot of options there because they are not just laying it down and building the hull... they need the stuff that goes in to it to be ready to go in to it... there is no point laying down the hull of a ship if the engine and transmission wont be ready for 5 years... what that results in is a hull sitting there taking up space where other ships could be built while you are waiting for the components you need. Obviously you also need a workforce to do the work and you also need to organise all the materials you need for the build... the steel... the cabling... the electronics and pipes and of course all the computers and sensors and weapons and other bits and pieces to be ready when they are needed.

    Shifting the laying down time is a pain because it shifts all the other times around too, but if it can't be helped then it can't be helped.

    Plans are never set in stone and not being able to change plans leads to terrible situations... like getting a fighter plane that can't go supersonic for instance... or a new aircraft carrier that can't operate aircraft except helicopters despite it being 100 thousand tons and 16 billion dollars worth... for seagulls to shit on.
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    Post  mnztr on 24/05/20, 09:10 pm

    [quote="GarryB"]
    W
    Plans are never set in stone and not being able to change plans leads to terrible situations... like getting a fighter plane that can't go supersonic for instance... or a new aircraft carrier that can't operate aircraft except helicopters despite it being 100 thousand tons and 16 billion dollars worth... for seagulls to shit on.

    Yup Ford Class, Littoral ships (pretty much in the dustbin at this point) Zumwalt class so many concepts that just did not work out ..Now a couple Virgina class are in dock for 2 years to fix some welds on the reactors even though they are "commissioned" this is just not easy stuff. 22350 is a huge leap in Russian naval warfare, as is Yassen class and Borei class. The progress is really immense. The nuke subs are arriving and a good clip, corvettes at a decent clip only the larger surface ships are problematic and just as they were ready to ramp up 22350 the engine supply dried up. I am still not convinced the engine supply is fully fixed. I think they will test this one, work out the bugs.. and THEN ramp up engines.
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    Post  dino00 on 01/06/20, 02:16 am

    Sea of ​​change: Admiral Gorshkov frigate awaits modernization

    Carriers of Zircon missile systems will receive new weapons systems and equipment


    Modern Russian frigates of project 22350 are being modernized. The first in line is Admiral Gorshkov. It plans to improve electronic equipment: radars, reconnaissance equipment and electronic warfare systems. They will also update the electronic filling - it will ensure the reliable operation of Zircon missile systems. Changes were made following the operation of two ships of this series. Experts note that frigates will become more powerful and reliable.

    First in a series

    It is planned that similarly all frigates of project 22350 will be finalized, sources in the Ministry of Defense told Izvestia. New ships of this type will be built taking into account the experience of operating weapons systems, life support and control on existing combat units.


    Full Article
    https://iz.ru/1017484/aleksei-ramm-bogdan-stepovoi/more-peremen-fregat-admiral-gorshkov-zhdet-modernizatciia
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    Post  Big_Gazza on 01/06/20, 07:46 am

    dino00 wrote:Sea of ​​change: Admiral Gorshkov frigate awaits modernization

    Carriers of Zircon missile systems will receive new weapons systems and equipment


    Modern Russian frigates of project 22350 are being modernized. The first in line is Admiral Gorshkov. It plans to improve electronic equipment: radars, reconnaissance equipment and electronic warfare systems. They will also update the electronic filling - it will ensure the reliable operation of Zircon missile systems. Changes were made following the operation of two ships of this series. Experts note that frigates will become more powerful and reliable.

    First in a series

    It is planned that similarly all frigates of project 22350 will be finalized, sources in the Ministry of Defense told Izvestia. New ships of this type will be built taking into account the experience of operating weapons systems, life support and control on existing combat units.


    Full Article
    https://iz.ru/1017484/aleksei-ramm-bogdan-stepovoi/more-peremen-fregat-admiral-gorshkov-zhdet-modernizatciia

    Good news and unsurprising given that Gorshkov was laid down in 2006. This represents the typical evolutionary improvement of technologies (plus design improvements made during the protracted commissioning of Gorshkov), those systems that will be rolled out on the serial builds (Golovko onwards?) are being retrospectively applied to Gorshkov and maybe Kasanatov.
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    Post  GarryB on 01/06/20, 08:37 am

    Good news and unsurprising given that Gorshkov was laid down in 2006. This represents the typical evolutionary improvement of technologies (plus design improvements made during the protracted commissioning of Gorshkov), those systems that will be rolled out on the serial builds (Golovko onwards?) are being retrospectively applied to Gorshkov and maybe Kasanatov.

    So essentially they are going to upgrade the electronics and systems... which would be the sort of thing you would do just before you start putting it in to serial production...
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    Post  GarryB on 01/06/20, 03:42 pm

    So the new thread is here:

    https://www.russiadefence.net/t8089-temporary-naval-ships-thread_new-title-soon

    If you go to the link and post replies there to suggest what subject you might like and which section would be relevant.

    For instance how about a discussion thread about how Italy saved Americas ass regarding frigate design, or something different.

    No posts or ideas for a couple of days and I will just attach it to the talking bollocks thread.

    Regards
    GarryB
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic on 01/06/20, 04:22 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    Good news and unsurprising given that Gorshkov was laid down in 2006. This represents the typical evolutionary improvement of technologies (plus design improvements made during the protracted commissioning of Gorshkov), those systems that will be rolled out on the serial builds (Golovko onwards?) are being retrospectively applied to Gorshkov and maybe Kasanatov.

    So essentially they are going to upgrade the electronics and systems... which would be the sort of thing you would do just before you start putting it in to serial production...
    yeah, and now they have several years of investment and experience making electronics and sensors for ships, aircrafts and army vehicles that are on par with the best western ones...time to put those lessons to fruition...

    It would be interesting to understand if at later point (life midlife upgrade, would it be possible to fit a 3rd UKSK module like it is from 5th ship onwards...

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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on 01/06/20, 04:26 pm

    Rodion_Romanovic wrote:
    GarryB wrote:
    Good news and unsurprising given that Gorshkov was laid down in 2006. This represents the typical evolutionary improvement of technologies (plus design improvements made during the protracted commissioning of Gorshkov), those systems that will be rolled out on the serial builds (Golovko onwards?) are being retrospectively applied to Gorshkov and maybe Kasanatov.

    So essentially they are going to upgrade the electronics and systems... which would be the sort of thing you would do just before you start putting it in to serial production...
    yeah, and now they have several years of investment and experience making electronics and sensors for ships, aircrafts and army vehicles that are on par with the best western ones...time to put those lessons to fruition...

    It would be interesting to understand if at later point (life midlife upgrade, would it be possible to fit a 3rd UKSK module like it is from 5th ship onwards...


    In Russian electronics/systems before 2006 (design was before right?) and 2021-22 is a n era. Good that this is going to be new stuff putting on pair with newest western designs.
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    Post  dino00 on 05/06/20, 01:59 am

    3 newest frigates of project 22350 will go to the Pacific Fleet. The first Far Eastern registration will be "Admiral Amelko." The emergence of universal warships will allow deploying one of the most powerful and modern strike groups in the region.

    In total, it is planned to release eight ships of the "admiral" series, as it is called by sailors. 3 ships will receive the Pacific and Northern Fleets, two - the Black Sea.

    Full Article
    https://iz.ru/1019812/aleksei-ramm-roman-kretcul-bogdan-stepovoi/prikaz-admiralam-fregaty-s-tcirkonami-usiliat-tikhookeanskii-flot
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    Post  flamming_python on 05/06/20, 02:38 pm

    dino00 wrote:3 newest frigates of project 22350 will go to the Pacific Fleet. The first Far Eastern registration will be "Admiral Amelko." The emergence of universal warships will allow deploying one of the most powerful and modern strike groups in the region.

    In total, it is planned to release eight ships of the "admiral" series, as it is called by sailors. 3 ships will receive the Pacific and Northern Fleets, two - the Black Sea.

    Full Article
    https://iz.ru/1019812/aleksei-ramm-roman-kretcul-bogdan-stepovoi/prikaz-admiralam-fregaty-s-tcirkonami-usiliat-tikhookeanskii-flot

    In before PapaDragon comes in and says that the Russian Navy is a joke, Russia is a joke and there needs to be at least 80 of the Admiral Gorshkov class
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    Post  George1 on 05/06/20, 02:48 pm

    flamming_python wrote:
    dino00 wrote:3 newest frigates of project 22350 will go to the Pacific Fleet. The first Far Eastern registration will be "Admiral Amelko." The emergence of universal warships will allow deploying one of the most powerful and modern strike groups in the region.

    In total, it is planned to release eight ships of the "admiral" series, as it is called by sailors. 3 ships will receive the Pacific and Northern Fleets, two - the Black Sea.

    Full Article
    https://iz.ru/1019812/aleksei-ramm-roman-kretcul-bogdan-stepovoi/prikaz-admiralam-fregaty-s-tcirkonami-usiliat-tikhookeanskii-flot

    In before PapaDragon comes in and says that the Russian Navy is a joke, Russia is a joke and there needs to be at least 80 of the Admiral Gorshkov class

    or even 40 would be great
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    Post  PapaDragon on 05/06/20, 03:45 pm

    flamming_python wrote:In before PapaDragon comes in and says that the Russian Navy is a joke, Russia is a joke and there needs to be at least 80 of the Admiral Gorshkov class

    PapaDragon never said there needs to be 80 of the Admiral Gorshkov class

    PapaDragon did say that Russia should build Gorshkov class in more than one location simultaneously like they do with Karakurt and Steregushi



    George1 wrote:or even 40 would be great

    Let's not get ahead of ourselves here

    For starters they should complete the 15 they originally planned because these 8 they have in the pipeline are barely enough to replace old Soviet stuff that's on it's way out

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    Post  AlfaT8 on 05/06/20, 06:02 pm

    flamming_python wrote:In before PapaDragon comes in and says that the Russian Navy is a joke, Russia is a joke and there needs to be at least 80 of the Admiral Gorshkov class

    Yea, i don't think i ever heard PD go down that road.

    Just the need to produce the thing in more than "1" Shipyard.


    George1 wrote:or even 40 would be great

    Let's not get ahead of ourselves here

    For starters they should complete the 15 they originally planned because these 8 they have in the pipeline are barely enough to replace old Soviet stuff that's on it's way out


    Meh, Russia always seems to have a problem getting it's ship production into the double digits.

    Ideally, they should get 30~40 Gorshkovs, 10~20 Super Gorshkovs and 3~5 Liders.
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    Post  flamming_python on 06/06/20, 03:01 am

    OK well

    Let's just wait instead then for the obligatory wall of text from Vann7 about the Moon landing conspiracy and COVID-19
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    Post  George1 on 06/06/20, 03:03 am

    flamming_python wrote:OK well

    Let's just wait instead then for the obligatory wall of text from Vann7 about the Moon landing conspiracy and COVID-19

    and the morons Very Happy
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    Post  ultimatewarrior on 06/06/20, 08:30 am

    Hopefully the second Admiral Gorshkov class frigate can be commissioned this year. Fingers crossed.
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    Post  GarryB on 06/06/20, 01:38 pm

    In before PapaDragon comes in and says that the Russian Navy is a joke, Russia is a joke and there needs to be at least 80 of the Admiral Gorshkov class

    They are frigates... so really not for use away from Russian shores much so 24-36 maybe split across the fleets... they would be OK in the Baltic Sea and Med...

    Ideally, they should get 30~40 Gorshkovs, 10~20 Super Gorshkovs and 3~5 Liders.

    24-36 Frigates, 18-24 Destroyers, and 4 to 8 Cruisers... but the Destroyers will be bigger and heavier than the cold war destroyers they replace and the Cruisers will be rather lighter than the cold war cruisers they replace...
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    Post  Isos on 06/06/20, 01:50 pm

    They have 3-4 fleets that can operates them. So any number will be divided by 4 and the fleets can't really help each other in war time. That's why they can't have few of them.

    15 is the minimal number. That equal to 5 ship for pacific and northern fleets and another 5 for the baltic and black sea.

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