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    European gas imports

    Hole
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    Post  Hole Sun Feb 13, 2022 1:53 pm

    Aristide wrote:
    PortugueseMan wrote:It can't.

    We are talking for massive quantities.

    Europe needs years to replace Russia. If Europe really wanted that, they could have started working on that for example in 2008, at that time Europe was screaming and saying it would replace russian gas.

    Now, the reality is, Europe have NS I, NS II, and Turkish Stream. New pipelines.

    The problem is not only the quantitie, is also the price, and security.

    A pipeline is a compromise (a big one) between the seller and the buyer. You cannot divert a pipeline.

    Europe will continue with Russia gas and have two major factors for that: european competitivity and the China factor.

    NS II? Not operational and never will. France will make sure of that.

    France can´t take care of herself.

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    Aristide
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    Post  Aristide Sun Feb 13, 2022 1:55 pm

    Hole wrote:
    Aristide wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:
    Aristide wrote:
    PortugueseMan wrote:
    Iran says it can supply 20% of EU gas supply and be a cheap alternative to Russia.

    And how and when could Iran do such a thing?

    It already does by its proxy quatar.

    Qatar itselfs has most of its stock sold in long term contracts to asia but miracously now ships gigantic amounts to Europe. Gas which is supplied by Iran. Iran needs money, Europe needs gas. Perfect match.

    Overall, you don't really understand the situation

    Russia has the ability to inflate world gas and oil prices to x3-4 times their real value, just by spiking tensions here or lowering supplies there. It has influence in OPEC. It has close relations with a bunch of other suppliers; but it doesn't even need to employ those things.

    And then Russia can simply supply the rival industrial countries it doesn't have any problems with, such as China, South Korea, Vietnam or whoever - with gas/oil at their actual value

    It appears you dont understand the situation. We are the richest continent under the sun, Russia is a poverty stricken hellhole where large parts of population have to live under conditions unimaginable for anyone in western europe. I saw Irkutsk buddy, its an absolute shithole...)

    So all this is relative meaningless, since its simply important to push russia gas exports to Europe down to 10%.


    European gas imports - Page 10 Versch10
    "Richest continent"  Laughing  Laughing  Laughing  Laughing  Laughing


    Ah you are from our protectorate. Nice.
    PortugueseMan
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    Post  PortugueseMan Sun Feb 13, 2022 2:12 pm

    NS II? Not operational and never will. France will make sure of that.

    Impressive thoughts.

    Very well. It is your opinion.
    Aristide
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    Post  Aristide Sun Feb 13, 2022 2:15 pm

    PortugueseMan wrote:
    NS II? Not operational and never will. France will make sure of that.

    Impressive thoughts.

    Very well. It is your opinion.

    Not my thoughts, our president said it openly.
    PortugueseMan
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    Post  PortugueseMan Sun Feb 13, 2022 2:27 pm

    Not my thoughts, our president said it openly.

    Could you put here what he said, or point to me a link?

    Thanks in advance.
    Aristide
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    Post  Aristide Sun Feb 13, 2022 2:30 pm

    PortugueseMan wrote:
    Not my thoughts, our president said it openly.

    Could you put here what he said, or point to me a link?

    Thanks in advance.

    https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/nord-stream-2-key-issue-talks-ukraine-crisis-frances-le-maire-2022-02-08/

    Its a no brainer anyways. The moment Putin attacks Ukraine, the pipeline is dead. It would be like France making energy deals with Hitler in 1939 after the poland invasion.
    PortugueseMan
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    Post  PortugueseMan Sun Feb 13, 2022 2:41 pm

    I need access to see all the text.

    Could you put just the part where is said that France will put a stop on Nord Stream? I follow these things for years and never saw declararions like that. From France, off course.

    Sorry for the trouble.
    Aristide
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    Post  Aristide Sun Feb 13, 2022 2:43 pm

    PortugueseMan wrote:I need access to see all the text.

    Could you put just the part where is said that France will put a stop on Nord Stream? I follow these things for years and never saw declararions like that. From France, off course.

    Sorry for the trouble.

    Macron says that energy independency from russia is a core inteerest of an independend Europe. NS II needs approval of the EU commission to go operational. This wont happen.
    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python Sun Feb 13, 2022 3:06 pm

    Aristide wrote:
    PortugueseMan wrote:I need access to see all the text.

    Could you put just the part where is said that France will put a stop on Nord Stream? I follow these things for years and never saw declararions like that. From France, off course.

    Sorry for the trouble.

    Macron says that energy independency from russia is a core inteerest of an independend Europe. NS II needs approval of the EU commission to go operational. This wont happen.

    Of course it will happen. Europe needs cheap energy otherwise it will be out-competed by Asia, and all the buddy-buddy relations with the US, the dominance of finance and everything else won't help here. Without a competitive industrial economy and reasonable utility prices (read - living standards) Europe will start to decline. It's a massively populated continent but with little in the way of energy resources to call its own, as well as other resources.

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    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python Sun Feb 13, 2022 3:10 pm

    Aristide wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:
    Aristide wrote:
    PortugueseMan wrote:
    Iran says it can supply 20% of EU gas supply and be a cheap alternative to Russia.

    And how and when could Iran do such a thing?

    It already does by its proxy quatar.

    Qatar itselfs has most of its stock sold in long term contracts to asia but miracously now ships gigantic amounts to Europe. Gas which is supplied by Iran. Iran needs money, Europe needs gas. Perfect match.

    Overall, you don't really understand the situation

    Russia has the ability to inflate world gas and oil prices to x3-4 times their real value, just by spiking tensions here or lowering supplies there. It has influence in OPEC. It has close relations with a bunch of other suppliers; but it doesn't even need to employ those things.

    And then Russia can simply supply the rival industrial countries it doesn't have any problems with, such as China, South Korea, Vietnam or whoever - with gas/oil at their actual value

    It appears you dont understand the situation. We are the richest continent under the sun, Russia is a poverty stricken hellhole where large parts of population have to live under conditions unimaginable for anyone in western europe. I saw Irkutsk buddy, its an absolute shithole...)

    So all this is relative meaningless, since its simply important to push russia gas exports to Europe down to 10%.

    Europe has its shitholes too. Check out Bulgarian or Romanian slums some time.

    Nevertheless none of this changes the situation. Which is that Europe won't stay rich for very long in an era of tensions with Russia.

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    Aristide
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    Post  Aristide Sun Feb 13, 2022 3:36 pm

    flamming_python wrote:
    Aristide wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:
    Aristide wrote:
    PortugueseMan wrote:
    Iran says it can supply 20% of EU gas supply and be a cheap alternative to Russia.

    And how and when could Iran do such a thing?

    It already does by its proxy quatar.

    Qatar itselfs has most of its stock sold in long term contracts to asia but miracously now ships gigantic amounts to Europe. Gas which is supplied by Iran. Iran needs money, Europe needs gas. Perfect match.

    Overall, you don't really understand the situation

    Russia has the ability to inflate world gas and oil prices to x3-4 times their real value, just by spiking tensions here or lowering supplies there. It has influence in OPEC. It has close relations with a bunch of other suppliers; but it doesn't even need to employ those things.

    And then Russia can simply supply the rival industrial countries it doesn't have any problems with, such as China, South Korea, Vietnam or whoever - with gas/oil at their actual value

    It appears you dont understand the situation. We are the richest continent under the sun, Russia is a poverty stricken hellhole where large parts of population have to live under conditions unimaginable for anyone in western europe. I saw Irkutsk buddy, its an absolute shithole...)

    So all this is relative meaningless, since its simply important to push russia gas exports to Europe down to 10%.

    Europe has its shitholes too. Check out Bulgarian or Romanian slums some time.

    Nevertheless none of this changes the situation. Which is that Europe won't stay rich for very long in an era of tensions with Russia.

    We would also not stay rich when we sacrifice eastern europe to putins facist regime.

    If we give up Ukraine, next would be Poland, Baltics and Scandinavia. You dont stop corrupted tyrants with appeasement. Its that simple. If we dont stop this now in a few years those barbarians would stand at our borders. This is about far more than gas. Its about our freedom.
    TMA1
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    Post  TMA1 Sun Feb 13, 2022 3:41 pm

    Whoa...guys what so many of us have known, intel agencies weaponized against trump admin, etc... this is worse than Watergate. Guys I'm blown away Durham is legit! All of you must read this!


    European gas imports - Page 10 16447510

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    Post  ALAMO Sun Feb 13, 2022 4:21 pm

    flamming_python wrote:

    Europe has its shitholes too. Check out Bulgarian or Romanian slums some time.

    Why?
    There are enough slums already in Paris, not to mention Lyon or Marseille.
    It gained a name already : bidonvilles.
    When I was in Paris in 2019, I took the wrong subway line. Jumped out of it on the next stop, only to realize that I have been teleported to Africa. There was a guy with a living goat hanging around his neck. A fucking goat, imagine. Shocked

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    Post  Aristide Sun Feb 13, 2022 4:50 pm

    ALAMO wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:

    Europe has its shitholes too. Check out Bulgarian or Romanian slums some time.

    Why?
    There are enough slums already in Paris, not to mention Lyon or Marseille.
    It gained a name already : bidonvilles.
    When I was in Paris in 2019, I took the wrong subway line. Jumped out of it on the next stop, only to realize that I have been teleported to Africa. There was a guy with a living goat hanging around his neck. A fucking goat, imagine.  Shocked

    I googled moscow subway and saw goats, dead bodies, drunken people and terror victims.

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    lancelot
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    Post  lancelot Sun Feb 13, 2022 4:52 pm

    It was quite simple to prevent the conflict in Ukraine. Just make it clear Ukraine would never join NATO.
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    Post  ALAMO Sun Feb 13, 2022 4:56 pm

    Hell, I was able to google a damn alpaca in the Moscow subway!

    European gas imports - Page 10 61fd035959bf5b55a83d614f

    Still, it does not make it a Little Africa, nor represents the slams content of your so-called "metropolis".

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    Post  owais.usmani Sun Feb 13, 2022 5:01 pm

    Aristide wrote:
    ALAMO wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:

    Europe has its shitholes too. Check out Bulgarian or Romanian slums some time.

    Why?
    There are enough slums already in Paris, not to mention Lyon or Marseille.
    It gained a name already : bidonvilles.
    When I was in Paris in 2019, I took the wrong subway line. Jumped out of it on the next stop, only to realize that I have been teleported to Africa. There was a guy with a living goat hanging around his neck. A fucking goat, imagine.  Shocked

    I googled moscow subway and saw goats, dead bodies, drunken people and terror victims.

    @GarryB: @George1:

    How much longer would this person be allowed to troll and pollute this thread?

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    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python Sun Feb 13, 2022 7:23 pm

    Aristide wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:
    Aristide wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:
    Aristide wrote:
    PortugueseMan wrote:
    Iran says it can supply 20% of EU gas supply and be a cheap alternative to Russia.

    And how and when could Iran do such a thing?

    It already does by its proxy quatar.

    Qatar itselfs has most of its stock sold in long term contracts to asia but miracously now ships gigantic amounts to Europe. Gas which is supplied by Iran. Iran needs money, Europe needs gas. Perfect match.

    Overall, you don't really understand the situation

    Russia has the ability to inflate world gas and oil prices to x3-4 times their real value, just by spiking tensions here or lowering supplies there. It has influence in OPEC. It has close relations with a bunch of other suppliers; but it doesn't even need to employ those things.

    And then Russia can simply supply the rival industrial countries it doesn't have any problems with, such as China, South Korea, Vietnam or whoever - with gas/oil at their actual value

    It appears you dont understand the situation. We are the richest continent under the sun, Russia is a poverty stricken hellhole where large parts of population have to live under conditions unimaginable for anyone in western europe. I saw Irkutsk buddy, its an absolute shithole...)

    So all this is relative meaningless, since its simply important to push russia gas exports to Europe down to 10%.

    Europe has its shitholes too. Check out Bulgarian or Romanian slums some time.

    Nevertheless none of this changes the situation. Which is that Europe won't stay rich for very long in an era of tensions with Russia.

    We would also not stay rich when we sacrifice eastern europe to putins facist regime.

    If we give up Ukraine, next would be Poland, Baltics and Scandinavia. You dont stop corrupted tyrants with appeasement. Its that simple. If we dont stop this now in a few years those barbarians would stand at our borders. This is about far more than gas. Its about our freedom.

    If you want to fight for European freedom by shooting yourself in the foot and refusing to buy cheap gas - then go right ahead.

    Russia has other customers, and will have more soon. Europe on the other hand does not have other suppliers capable of matching either the quantity needed, or the price.

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    Aristide
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    Post  Aristide Sun Feb 13, 2022 7:25 pm

    lancelot wrote:It was quite simple to prevent the conflict in Ukraine. Just make it clear Ukraine would never join NATO.

    Only Ukraine can decide. If they want join NATO its up to them. Free nations can freely decide which alliances they want.

    Never asked yourself why Russias neighbors seek all security from Russia?
    Aristide
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    Post  Aristide Sun Feb 13, 2022 7:26 pm

    ALAMO wrote:Hell, I was able to google a damn alpaca in the Moscow subway!

    European gas imports - Page 10 61fd035959bf5b55a83d614f

    Still, it does not make it a Little Africa, nor represents the slams content of your so-called "metropolis".

    Well i saw afrucan cities that definitly looked better and had higher standards than russian cities. Marrakesh for example.
    Aristide
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    Post  Aristide Sun Feb 13, 2022 7:28 pm

    flamming_python wrote:
    Aristide wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:
    Aristide wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:
    Aristide wrote:
    PortugueseMan wrote:
    Iran says it can supply 20% of EU gas supply and be a cheap alternative to Russia.

    And how and when could Iran do such a thing?

    It already does by its proxy quatar.

    Qatar itselfs has most of its stock sold in long term contracts to asia but miracously now ships gigantic amounts to Europe. Gas which is supplied by Iran. Iran needs money, Europe needs gas. Perfect match.

    Overall, you don't really understand the situation

    Russia has the ability to inflate world gas and oil prices to x3-4 times their real value, just by spiking tensions here or lowering supplies there. It has influence in OPEC. It has close relations with a bunch of other suppliers; but it doesn't even need to employ those things.

    And then Russia can simply supply the rival industrial countries it doesn't have any problems with, such as China, South Korea, Vietnam or whoever - with gas/oil at their actual value

    It appears you dont understand the situation. We are the richest continent under the sun, Russia is a poverty stricken hellhole where large parts of population have to live under conditions unimaginable for anyone in western europe. I saw Irkutsk buddy, its an absolute shithole...)

    So all this is relative meaningless, since its simply important to push russia gas exports to Europe down to 10%.

    Europe has its shitholes too. Check out Bulgarian or Romanian slums some time.

    Nevertheless none of this changes the situation. Which is that Europe won't stay rich for very long in an era of tensions with Russia.

    We would also not stay rich when we sacrifice eastern europe to putins facist regime.

    If we give up Ukraine, next would be Poland, Baltics and Scandinavia. You dont stop corrupted tyrants with appeasement. Its that simple. If we dont stop this now in a few years those barbarians would stand at our borders. This is about far more than gas. Its about our freedom.

    If you want to fight for European freedom by shooting yourself in the foot and refusing to buy cheap gas - then go right ahead.

    Russia has other customers, and will have more soon. Europe on the other hand does not have other suppliers capable of matching either the quantity needed, or the price.

    I prefer freedom over cheap gas.
    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Sun Feb 13, 2022 7:42 pm

    Paging Garry


    A lot of the stuff belongs in the Talking Bollocks thread not here.

    I think someone needs a quite word, please.

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    Post  ALAMO Sun Feb 13, 2022 7:51 pm

    Aristide wrote:
    Only Ukraine can decide. If they want join NATO its up to them. Free nations can freely decide which alliances they want.
    Never asked yourself why Russias neighbors seek all security from Russia?

    Seems you need a hell of a whipping due to the education process, and that brings me to the conclusion, that you might actually admire that.
    But as I am not a pervert, and tolerant - take it if you need it. IDK.
    Ukraine is not free, to begin with.
    It is a US bitch, kept hostage by nazi goons who terrorize the nation.
    With a culture, language and religion war ongoing.
    The whole country is fully dependent on the IMF and other sponsors' loans.
    They are a failed state already, unable to pay the obligations - and playing a political chart with those.
    So they can decide perfectly nothing, at the moment you may witness how they are "deciding" that there is no Russian "invasion", but the gauleiter knows better.
    And second, no Russian neighbor seeks security from them, other than some nations that had just the same historical aspirations, but felt.
    The only neighboring countries with a negative attitude towards Russia, are Poland and Pribalts - the reason for both being obvious to anyone who knows history.
    Latvia and Poland used to be a European superpower, while your ancestors used to shit at the corners of Versailles, as you had no toilets in there.
    The teutonic knights had them already at all the castles they have erected back in XIV century here.
    A madames of yours used perfumes to hide the stink, and small puppies because those are warmer than humans, and all the fleas bite them instead.
    A veneric diseases had a common name of "French syndrome" back in XVI century here Laughing
    Any single other neighbor, enjoys neutral - like the Scandinavians, friendly - like all the ex-SU member states, to allies, like China, Mongolia or Korea.
    The only moment when those relations are spoiled - is when Uncle Sam puts it's long nose to the other's business, using occupied countries.
    So go and check if you have a working toilet there, before you will call the other places "a shitholes".
    We don't have chimp-like organised gangs of Negros burning our capitols here. Clean up your room, before you dare to comment the others.

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    Aristide
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    Post  Aristide Sun Feb 13, 2022 8:00 pm

    ALAMO wrote:
    Aristide wrote:
    Only Ukraine can decide. If they want join NATO its up to them. Free nations can freely decide which alliances they want.
    Never asked yourself why Russias neighbors seek all security from Russia?

    Seems you need a hell of a whipping due to the education process, and that brings me to the conclusion, that you might actually admire that.
    But as I am not a pervert, and tolerant - take it if you need it. IDK.
    Ukraine is not free, to begin with.
    It is a US bitch, kept hostage by nazi goons who terrorize the nation.
    With a culture, language and religion war ongoing.
    The whole country is fully dependent on the IMF and other sponsors' loans.
    They are a failed state already, unable to pay the obligations - and playing a political chart with those.
    So they can decide perfectly nothing, at the moment you may witness how they are "deciding" that there is no Russian "invasion", but the gauleiter knows better.
    And second, no Russian neighbor seeks security from them, other than some nations that had just the same historical aspirations, but felt.
    The only neighboring countries with a negative attitude towards Russia, are Poland and Pribalts - the reason for both being obvious to anyone who knows history.
    Latvia and Poland used to be a European superpower, while your ancestors used to shit at the corners of Versailles, as you had no toilets in there.
    The teutonic knights had them already at all the castles they have erected back in XIV century here.
    A madames of yours used perfumes to hide the stink, and small puppies because those are warmer than humans, and all the fleas bite them instead.
    A veneric diseases had a common name of "French syndrome" back in XVI century here  Laughing
    Any single other neighbor, enjoys neutral - like the Scandinavians, friendly - like all the ex-SU member states, to allies, like China, Mongolia or Korea.
    The only moment when those relations are spoiled - is when Uncle Sam puts it's long nose to the other's business, using occupied countries.
    So go and check if you have a working toilet there, before you will call the other places "a shitholes".
    We don't have chimp-like organised gangs of Negros burning our capitols here. Clean up your room, before you dare to comment the others.

    What can Russia offer other than grey cities, desperation, poverty and corruption? Nothing. Thats why Ukraine and others want to escape its influence. And we will not push those away who call for our help.

    Btw Finlamd and Sweden now also push towards NATO because they fear to be next. Thats what Putin will have to understand, there wont be a new USSR. Never.
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    Post  flamming_python Sun Feb 13, 2022 8:50 pm

    Aristide wrote:
    I prefer freedom over cheap gas.

    Your business and political elites prefer an economy

    As for your freedom, good Lord who needs to take it from you, or from your country.

    The Ukraine sold itself, its mother and its kitchen sink to every sponsor it could find. It operates as nothing more than a suzerainty of the US, even screwing over Chinese investors who paid in billions to buy the MotorSich factory, purely by the orders of Uncle Sam. Even their domestic policies were decided for them by Brussels and Washington. They had all sorts of US, Lithuanian, etc.. citizens taking public office.

    And now what, it's being passed from one owner to another. Or not actually passed in full, but rather made into a neutral country. Which would actually afford it more sovereignty and freedom of manuever than it enjoys currently. The war that has been waged for 8 years will finally end. Be happy. It's of no threat to your France, or any other European country. Russia doesn't care about taking over Europe, simply not having someone's tools waging war on Russian-speakers in a neighboring country, that affects Russia's stability itself.

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