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    F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Backman
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    Post  Backman Sun Feb 28, 2021 4:55 pm

    JohninMK wrote:Looks like a lucky escape for Turkey.

    There are actually countries still selecting this fighter. I understand that some big money was spent on the program. It didn't work out. It costs too much per flight hour. But everyone should just buy some of them just to finish out the program. Buying some of them to be a good ally and actually selecting it is two different things.

    The Millennium 7 guy is suggesting that the US airforce should just import a 4+++ fighter from Europe.
    Hole
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    Post  Hole Sun Feb 28, 2021 7:51 pm

    They could buy the MiG-35 but... Russia doesn´t produce anything! Very Happy
    LMFS
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    Post  LMFS Sun Feb 28, 2021 10:54 pm

    Backman wrote:The Millennium 7 guy is suggesting that the US airforce should just import a 4+++ fighter from Europe.

    The guy is Italian, probably he would like the Eurofighter being used by USAF... but it has nothing to do with what USAF needs and it is as expensive as the F-35 Wink

    Hole wrote:They could buy the MiG-35 but... Russia doesn´t produce anything!

    They should ask Rostec about the LFI/LMFS Razz

    Now seriously, it seems the General that made the statements has clarified recently that there is no doubt and no threat to the F-35 etc etc... we will see
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    Post  LMFS Sat Mar 06, 2021 1:33 pm

    More about the clusterfvck program commonly know as JSF. It is easy to criticise, but the damning part are the statements of the US politicians quoted:

    The US Congress called the F-35 fighter program a "black hole"

    The US Congress made another criticism of the fifth generation F-35 fighters. The largest portion of criticism of the very program for the creation of these combat aircraft came from the chairman of the US Armed Forces Committee of the House of Representatives, Adam Smith.

    From a statement by a Democratic congressman:

    It's time to stop pouring money into the black hole. What does the F-35 give us? Is there any way at all to cut the incredible costs of the program? And the costs of implementing and further supporting this program are enormous.

    According to Smith, he is going to find out how many new generation fighters and attack aircraft would be most suitable for the United States and at the same time "did not draw additional money from the budget."

    US Congressman:

    If initially the aircraft was conceived as an affordable fifth generation fighter, including thanks to the expansion of the production program with the help of our foreign partners, now it turned out that everything is not so.

    The American media recalled that the cost of an F-35 flight hour is 36 thousand dollars. At the same time, only 69% of the F-35s in the American fleet have achieved the ability to carry out combat operations. The rest continue to "bring to mind", spending more and more new means.

    Chairman of the U.S. House of Representatives Committee on the Armed Forces:

    We have already spent a huge amount on weapons systems that either did not work at all or did not ultimately meet expectations. This is a major failure. The F-35 program needs to be thoroughly discussed.

    The congressman called the situation "price pressure" from a manufacturer "realizing that he has a monopoly."

    We will remind that earlier in Lockheed Martin offered the Pentagon to conclude a new contract, on the basis of which an hour of operation of the F-35 will become cheaper. Instead of 36 thousand dollars - 25 thousand. At the same time, the company claims that "no new costs will be required for this." But if expenses really are not required, then why do you need another contract?

    https://en.topwar.ru/180619-v-kongresse-ssha-programmu-sozdanija-istrebitelej-f-35-nazvali-chernoj-dyroj.html

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    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Sat Mar 06, 2021 6:35 pm

    LMFS wrote:More about the clusterfvck program commonly know as JSF. It is easy to criticise, but the damning part are the statements of the US politicians quoted:

    The US Congress called the F-35 fighter program a "black hole"

    The US Congress made another criticism of the fifth generation F-35 fighters. The largest portion of criticism of the very program for the creation of these combat aircraft came from the chairman of the US Armed Forces Committee of the House of Representatives, Adam Smith.

    From a statement by a Democratic congressman:

    It's time to stop pouring money into the black hole. What does the F-35 give us? Is there any way at all to cut the incredible costs of the program? And the costs of implementing and further supporting this program are enormous.

    According to Smith, he is going to find out how many new generation fighters and attack aircraft would be most suitable for the United States and at the same time "did not draw additional money from the budget."

    US Congressman:

    If initially the aircraft was conceived as an affordable fifth generation fighter, including thanks to the expansion of the production program with the help of our foreign partners, now it turned out that everything is not so.

    The American media recalled that the cost of an F-35 flight hour is 36 thousand dollars. At the same time, only 69% of the F-35s in the American fleet have achieved the ability to carry out combat operations. The rest continue to "bring to mind", spending more and more new means.

    Chairman of the U.S. House of Representatives Committee on the Armed Forces:

    We have already spent a huge amount on weapons systems that either did not work at all or did not ultimately meet expectations. This is a major failure. The F-35 program needs to be thoroughly discussed.

    The congressman called the situation "price pressure" from a manufacturer "realizing that he has a monopoly."

    We will remind that earlier in Lockheed Martin offered the Pentagon to conclude a new contract, on the basis of which an hour of operation of the F-35 will become cheaper. Instead of 36 thousand dollars - 25 thousand. At the same time, the company claims that "no new costs will be required for this." But if expenses really are not required, then why do you need another contract?

    https://en.topwar.ru/180619-v-kongresse-ssha-programmu-sozdanija-istrebitelej-f-35-nazvali-chernoj-dyroj.html

    But there's idiots (even posting on this forum) who think that the Su-57 fell off the face of the Earth. Rolling Eyes clown Rolling Eyes clown

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sun Mar 07, 2021 7:19 am

    The operational costs for Norway were quoted as 68K US per hour.... they were struggling to afford the air time for air crew and ground crew to get enough hours to remain current on the aircraft and not require retraining in the US...
    LMFS
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    Post  LMFS Sun Mar 07, 2021 11:55 am

    GarryB wrote:The operational costs for Norway were quoted as 68K US per hour.... they were struggling to afford the air time for air crew and ground crew to get enough hours to remain current on the aircraft and not require retraining in the US...

    Of course if the logistics is not properly optimized and you have to work with a foreign land, import pieces etc., it will be even more expensive. They had to remove ALIS because it was a disaster and this should have make things better now. But it is clear foreign suckers partners are the ones to sustain the highest effort and make the plane a little cheaper for US.

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Mon Mar 08, 2021 5:07 am

    Possibly a double edged sword of course because I would suspect the export customers were getting a simpler more basic design that was not as stealthy, but of course costing slightly more than the US was paying for theirs.

    Sounds great for the US, but in terms of fixing things and getting them working properly the simpler model is probably easier to get working and it adds to the problems of getting them all working when you have several different models with slightly different systems which might mean a fix for one setup might make things worse on a plane with different equipment.

    The real issue in problem solving is working out what is actually causing the problems because so many different things are all interacting and one part might seem to be working fine but is giving bad output to everything it is connected to and it might be those things that are failing.

    It is not like they are new to making new avionics systems...
    Backman
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    Post  Backman Mon Mar 08, 2021 5:18 am

    Is there a n info page out there that explains where all this money goes per flight hour ? Not just the F-35 but generally. Maybe the term "per flight hour" is misleading. How would this compare to say automotive...

    I don't know much about aircraft but I do work on cars and stuff. I just don't understand where the money goes. Is there mechanical parts inside the aircraft that wear out and need replacing ? Confused.

    LMFS
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    Post  LMFS Mon Mar 08, 2021 10:33 am

    The term used is CPFH (Cost Per Flight Hour) and it can cover all sorts of things from fuel and pieces to buildings, labour and other "shared" costs. It depends on many factors and is quite difficult to interpret, because everyone calculates it differently. We have a thread in the military topics subforum.

    In the case of the F-35 I can imagine the pieces are expensive and the logistics complicated, plus maybe a lot of special tools and processes to keep the plane operational... that is what I would do if I was an unscrupulous supplier placed in a position of monopoly as LM has been Rolling Eyes

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    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Mon Mar 08, 2021 11:00 am

    LMFS wrote:.. that is what I would do if I was an unscrupulous supplier INTENTIONALLY placed in a position of monopoly as LM has been Rolling Eyes

    Sentence corrected for you Laughing

    Them there politicians gotta make sure the gravy train has a long and secure life.

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    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Sun Mar 14, 2021 4:55 am

    Are vassals given the option to use Vaseline? Wink
    New SG MOD paper:"Most importantly,any foreign operator of the F-35 JSF will undoubtedly be at the mercy of the US Government should they decide to switch off local access to the ALIS whenever they ever disagree with how the made-in-USA jets are deployed."

    https://www.mindef.gov.sg/oms/safti/pointer/documents/pdf/monthlyissue/jan2021.pdf

    https://twitter.com/TheDEWLine/status/1370920756440395778

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    kvs
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    Post  kvs Sun Mar 14, 2021 6:09 am

    magnumcromagnon wrote:Are vassals given the option to use Vaseline? Wink
    New SG MOD paper:"Most importantly,any foreign operator of the F-35 JSF will undoubtedly be at the mercy of the US Government should they decide to switch off local access to the ALIS whenever they ever disagree with how the made-in-USA jets are deployed."

    https://www.mindef.gov.sg/oms/safti/pointer/documents/pdf/monthlyissue/jan2021.pdf

    https://twitter.com/TheDEWLine/status/1370920756440395778

    Where is all the pride of America's "allies" who submit to having a leash put around their necks?

    Maybe instead of foaming at the mouth with hate for Russia, they should grow a spine.

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    LMFS
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    Post  LMFS Sun Mar 14, 2021 12:25 pm

    ALIS was always the elephant in the room, radically incompatible with any thought of defence sovereignty. It is not that a "rogue" ally would be left without spares after breaking up with the US, it is that their planes would directly grounded unless the masters approve their use. The "free world" looks increasingly like a jail...

    Funny comments from Rogoway confirming what we had already discussed:

    F-35 Development and News Thread: - Page 25 Unbena10

    Daddy's boy Israel (who doubted it) got permit to modify the plane's SW, while the serfs got the shaft, it is beyond embarrassing Embarassed

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    lyle6
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    Post  lyle6 Sun Mar 14, 2021 9:11 pm

    If I was Israel I'd lobby and lobby hard for an entire F-35 manufacturing line situated within Israel, and then sell jail-broken F-35s all day long.

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    Isos
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    Post  Isos Sun Mar 14, 2021 10:02 pm

    ALIS doesn't work and is even shittier than the f-35. Full of issues.

    I wonder how stupid those export clients are to keep purchasing this plane. Even the US MoD said it's a shitty plane.

    There will be lot of investigations into corruption cases once the stupid public finds out they paid billions for sych a failure.

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    LMFS
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    Post  LMFS Sun Mar 14, 2021 11:03 pm

    lyle6 wrote:If I was Israel I'd lobby and lobby hard for an entire F-35 manufacturing line situated within Israel, and then sell jail-broken F-35s all day long.

    Worst of all is being Israel you would get away with it, there is nothing too expensive or trespassing too serious for them to be put in their place... is there any limit at all after the USS Liberty and getting nukes illegally??

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    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Mon Mar 15, 2021 4:16 am

    LMFS wrote:ALIS was always the elephant in the room, radically incompatible with any thought of defence sovereignty. It is not that a "rogue" ally would be left without spares after breaking up with the US, it is that their planes would directly grounded unless the masters approve their use. The "free world" looks increasingly like a jail...

    Funny comments from Rogoway confirming what we had already discussed:

    F-35 Development and News Thread: - Page 25 Unbena10

    Daddy's boy Israel (who doubted it) got permit to modify the plane's SW, while the serfs got the shaft, it is beyond embarrassing Embarassed

    Yeah I forgot to comment on Rogoway's tweets. Boy is that guy a spineless boot and nutsack licking sycophant, and if he was born in Germany back in the 1920's he'd be editing Goebbels speeches by the time the Brownshirts came in to power.
    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Mon Mar 15, 2021 5:01 pm

    British General: F-35B Fighters ruin the Kingdom's army
    The British armed forces have largely lost their combat readiness and cannot effectively support the United States and counter the Russian military.
    F-35 Development and News Thread: - Page 25 1024px-F-35A_on__Elephant_Walk__d_850

    "The Russians are laughing at us, the Americans are shaking their heads," British General Richard Dannatt, who headed the General staff of the British armed forces from 2006 to 2009, said in an interview with the Mirror newspaper.

    "The Ministry of defense went bankrupt because of the f-35B stealth fighters of the Royal air force - 80 million pounds each and the cost in operation of up to 90 thousand pounds per hour," the publication says.

    According to the former military commander, even the US air force is starting to look for a cheaper combat aircraft and plans to buy 138 F-35B aircraft for the UK are likely to be reduced to 48.

    Earlier, the British Parliament assessed the potential of the armored forces of great Britain and Russia. Experts noted the obsolescence of tanks and armored vehicles, many of which are more than 30 years old.

    https://z5h64q92x9.net/proxy_u/ru-en.en.e6eafbcc-604f9194-d539559a-74722d776562/https/rg.ru/2021/03/14/britanskij-general-istrebiteli-f-35b-razoriaiut-armiiu-korolevstva.html

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    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Mon Mar 15, 2021 8:10 pm

    This is a wild statistic— the total spending on the F-35 is greater than the total spending by China on the entire Belt and Road Initiative. (From, “The Uses and Abuses of Weaponized Interdependence”)
    F-35 Development and News Thread: - Page 25 Ewd-KV3WEAEP-MN?format=jpg&name=large

    https://twitter.com/MarkLGoldberg/status/1371203331499130880

    American corruption is on another level.
    Lucky for our ruling class, the big corruption watchdog NGOs are bankrolled by... our ruling class, via their tax-avoidance schemes (euphemistically known as "nonprofit foundations").

    https://twitter.com/MarkAmesExiled/status/1371467857490542595

    Who's engaging in Debt-Trapping? Who's turning nations in to vassal states? Wink clown

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Tue Mar 16, 2021 5:06 am

    "The Ministry of defense went bankrupt because of the f-35B stealth fighters of the Royal air force - 80 million pounds each and the cost in operation of up to 90 thousand pounds per hour," the publication says.

    So early on it was promised to be 36K per hour, but in practise it turned out to be more like 68K per hour... now 90K pounds per hour.... and guess what... when they cut their order from 138 planes to 48 then the price can only go up even higher...

    I have said several times before but the F-35 is the best plane in the world... it will single handedly bankrupt HATO and ruin their defence capability completely... they will be paying 4% GDP just to keep these planes flying... they wont be able to afford the weapons that makes them war machines...
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    owais.usmani

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    Post  owais.usmani Wed Mar 24, 2021 5:52 pm

    https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/39920/a-marine-f-35b-fighter-jet-accidentally-shot-itself-with-its-own-gun-pod

    A Marine F-35B Fighter Jet Accidentally Shot Itself With Its Own Gun Pod


    lol!

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    The-thing-next-door
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    Post  The-thing-next-door Wed Mar 24, 2021 6:16 pm

    owais.usmani wrote:https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/39920/a-marine-f-35b-fighter-jet-accidentally-shot-itself-with-its-own-gun-pod

    A Marine F-35B Fighter Jet Accidentally Shot Itself With Its Own Gun Pod



    lol!

    That is an impressive feat of incompetence on the behalf of the designers.

    I would like to know how they even managed this.

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    Hole
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    Post  Hole Wed Mar 24, 2021 7:38 pm

    Only exceptional people can do this! Very Happy

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    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Wed Mar 24, 2021 9:19 pm

    Hole wrote:Only exceptional people can do this! Very Happy

    What even more impressive is....*drum roll*...there wasn't a drunk Ukrainian behind the wheel!

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