F-35 Development and News Thread:

http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/03/06/canadas-multi-billion-dollar-f-35s-are-irrelevant-without-the-u-s-only-f-22-as-support-american-general-says/

Canada’s multi-billion dollar F-35s ‘irrelevant’ without U.S.-only F-22 as support, American general says

David Pugliese, Ottawa Citizen, Postmedia News | March 6, 2014 | Last Updated: Mar 6 5:35 PM ET
More from Postmedia News
his undated handout image obtained on April 22, 2009 courtesy of the Joint Strike Fighter program site, shows the F-35 JSF.
AFP PHOTO / JSF-Hand-Outhis undated handout image obtained on April 22, 2009 courtesy of the Joint Strike Fighter program site, shows the F-35 JSF.


New questions are being raised about whether the F-35 stealth fighter is the right aircraft for Canada after a U.S. general acknowledged the jet is limited in what it can do and needs to be accompanied on its missions by another multi-million-dollar aircraft.

The issue for Canada and other potential F-35 buyers is that the other aircraft referred to by the general – the F-22 – isn’t available for foreign sales because of its sophisticated technology.

Gen. Michael Hostage, head of air combat command in the U.S., said the F-35 is critical for the future of that country’s air force. But in an interview with the Air Force Times, published in February, Hostage pointed out the F-35 needs to work hand-in-hand with the F-22.

“The F-35 is not built as an air superiority platform,” Hostage said. “It needs the F-22.”
What is the F-22?

The F-22 Raptor is a single-seat fighter jet made by Lockheed Martin, which also makes the F-35.
Lockheed Martin calls its F-22 the world’s most advanced fighter. The U.S. has banned foreign sales of the Raptor.
The F-22 is the only fighter capable of simultaneously conducting air-to-air and air-to-ground combat missions with near impunity, according to Lockheed.
The final F-22 Raptor was delivered to the U.S. Air Force in May 2012. It is no longer in production.

The U.S. Air Force is upgrading the F-22, which officers see as essential. Without the upgraded F-22s, “the F-35 fleet frankly will be irrelevant,” Hostage said.

The comments have sparked heated debate in aerospace and defence circles, and analyst Martin Shadwick says Hostage’s statements are bound to raise eyebrows in Canada. “I’m sure you won’t see the general’s comments in any F-35 marketing literature,” said Shadwick, a York University professor. “Canada needs a multi-role fighter and even if the F-22 were available we couldn’t afford another aircraft to fly top cover for the F-35s.”

Senior Royal Canadian Air Force officers have acknowledged they are keen to see the F-35 in Canada.

But in 2012, the Conservative government put a temporary halt to its purchase of the F-35 and appointed a group of senior officials to examine options for the replacement of the country’s CF-18 fighter jets.

That process is still under way. Public Works and Government Services can’t say when it will be completed.
Related

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Hostage’s comments echo earlier concerns by critics that the F-35 is mainly designed to strike at ground targets and is not well suited for aerial combat and interceptions.

But Mike Barton, a spokesman for Lockheed Martin Canada, said the F-35 meets all Canada’s needs. The general’s comments are a reflection of how the U.S. Air Force operates and are not relevant to Canada, he added.

Barton said Lockheed Martin has not seen any adverse reaction to Hostage’s comments from the Canadian government or any other nation interested in purchasing the F-35. “We’ve heard nothing about it impacting foreign interest,” Barton said.

The F-35 stealth fighter had become a major political headache for the Conservative government, which made it a lynchpin of their defence policy.

The controversy surrounding the F-35 purchase has centred on technical and cost issues, as well as the acquisition process. The Department of National Defence originally claimed the project would cost around $14.7 billion but then-Parliamentary Budget Officer Kevin Page put that price tag at around $29 billion.

Auditor General Michael Ferguson also issued a report concluding that DND officials withheld key information from Parliament about the jet purchase, underestimated costs, and didn’t follow proper procurement rules.

Still, the F-35 has had strong support in government. Prime Minister Stephen Harper has labelled the jet a good deal for Canada.

dpugliese@ottawacitizen.com

Twitter.com/davidpugliese

Werewolf wrote:

Hannibal Barca wrote:Agree... but you obviously need to try to create something new AFTER FORTY YEARS!!!

By giving a crappy company like Lockheed Martin to do the job?

I mean Lockheet Martin who created the F-104 Starfighter, or Widow maker, Comet, Mayfly and all the other nicknames it got because it is a crappy jet that we lost in germany alone over 300 from 900 jets without any enemy engagement, to make the new jet?

Lockheet Martin company was almost banned in Germany, at least there were talks to ban any Lockheet Martin products for the Luftwaffe, but that was shut down since Germany is just a colony of the US.

higurashihougi wrote:@Hannibal Barca: As far as I know the problem of US military industry is NOT the technology, but the way people use them.

Many kinds of US weapon express a clear technological superiority but many of these superiority are unneccessary and they created more problems than benefits. For example the disaster named M16 first generation and another disaster named F-35.

Correct me if I am wrong but for me a basic design actually have a considerable rooms for improvement, with this in mind the current F-teens are still capable for general roles and can more or less keep the pace quite well if intensively modernized.

US next 5th gen fighter should have been an upgraded version of the F-22 and should belong to the elite forces or using for special missions.

Mike E wrote:

The problem "of the US military industry" is their military industrial complex... They own both parties, never mind the army itself, so they can get away with overcharging subpar products.

Mike E wrote:http://nationalinterest.org/feature/americas-f-35-coming-crash-landing-11332

Here we go! Even their own propaganda is revving up the "cancellation" debate!

Michael Lemuel Dizon wrote:Lets discuss the F-35's strengths in A-A combat.

The F-35 is not the best fighter in the world, but it offers a lot of advantages against other aircraft.

1. Low observability (stealth) : the aircraft is very difficult to detect in 3 ways:

1A.
Radar: the aircraft has a very low radar signature against most types of radars.

Some critics will argue that low frequency (LF) radars like those created in the 1940s or 50s can detect stealth. This is actually true, however, LF radars are also very inaccurate.

They may alert you of the presence of stealth aircraft, but not exactly where, the speed, heading etc. not enough info to target the aircraft.

LF radars are also confused by many things like, clouds, dust, smoke, birds, insects, all of these things will look like a target for LF radars.

They are also ridiculously easy to jam, even by 1960 era jammers. imagine what the F-35's
AN/ASQ-239 advanced Barracuda jammer would do to it.

1B.
Infrared: the F-35 has an advanced thermal management system that circulates fuel around the aircraft to reduce it's thermal signature. the heat is absorbed by the fuel, not enough to ignite the fuel but enough to make IR countermeasures like flares more effective.

The F-35s engine nozzle may look more conventional than the F-22s flat thrust vectoring nozzle, but it is actually a product of the LOAN (low observable asymmetric nozzle) program, which reduces both radar and heat signatures.

1C.
Electronic emissions: Radar waves emitted by an aircraft can be detected by passive radar receivers.
However the F-35's APG-81 AESA radar changes frequencies thousands of times every second making it very difficult for Passive receivers to track it down, this is called LPI capability or Low probability of intercept.

2. Advanced Sensors/Fusion

The F-35 has some of the World's most advanced sensors
APG-81: a powerful AESA radar that is so advanced it can actually take a picture using nothing more than radar waves. This is called SAR mode.

AAQ-40 EOTS: an advanced optical camera that can zoom, identify and guide weapons to a target.

AAQ-37 DAS: 6 infra red cameras positioned around the aircraft that builds a 360 degree video of the aircraft then feeds it to the pilot's helmet. If the pilot looks down, he will not see the floor of the aircraft, he will see what the DAS camera located on the belly sees. If he looks behind, he will not see the back of his seat, he will see what the DAS camera behind the aircraft sees.

Fusion: 4th gen fighters had a different monitor for their radar, a different one for their passive radar receiver, and a different one for the Infrared sensor. Some targets can be seen by the IR sensor, but cant be seen by the radar, some targets can be detected by the radar, but can't be seen by the IR sensor. the pilot had to figure out which was which and draw a conclusion.

The F-35's sensor fusion engine does this all for him. The pilot simply looks at his screen and sees what target is out there. It doesn't matter which sensor is detecting what, all of them are located in one screen.

3. Aerodynamic agility/speed:

A lot of people think that the F-35 is not maneuverable because it was not meant to be. This not true.

The requirement for the JSF program was to build a fighter that matched the F-16 and F/A-18s maneuvering abilities.

The F-16 is the best American 4th gen in terms of acceleration and high Sustained G capabilities.

To match this the F-35 had to have wing loading properties similar to the F-16. The F-16(block 50) weighs 18,900 lbs when empty and has a 300 foot wing. the F-35A weighs 29,300 lbs. and has a 460 foot wing.

The wing loading of both aircraft when empty sits at approximately 63 lbs / sq feet. Basically the same.

The F-35 has the advantage of being less weight sensitive also. Adding 4 AMRAAMs will add 7% to the F-16s empty weight, but only 4.5% to the F-35s.

In combat you will see what the F-35 brings to the fight

Typical Air-Air load.

F-16C (block 50)
Empty: 18,900 lbs
Load: 8,000 lbs (6,000lbs of fuel + 6 missiles)
Combat Weight: 26,900 lbs
Wing Area: 300 feet
Thrust: 28,600 lbs

Wing loading: 89.66 lbs / square feet
Thrust-to-weight ratio: 1.06

________________________________________________________

F-35A
Empty: 29,300 lbs
Load: 11,000 lbs (9,000lbs of fuel + 6 missiles)
Combat Weight: 40,300 lbs
Wing Area: 460 feet
Thrust: 43,000 lbs

Wing loading: 87.60 lbs / square feet
Thrust-to-weight ratio: 1.06

Even when loaded with 50% more fuel than the F-16, the F-35's wing loading is still better.
Its thrust to weight ratio is identical to the Block 50's.

Furthermore it will not have any of the F-16's parasitic drag due to external weapons carriage.

another measure of agility is an aircrafts capability to execute high Angle of attack maneuvers, to point the nose away from the aircraft's flight path vector (direction of where it is actually going).

This is the F/A-18's greatest kinematic strength. And it is what the Hornet is known and feared for in air-air combat.

The F-35 will also enjoy High AOA abilities. Its flight control surface AOA limit is 50 degrees and has been tested to 73 degrees with ease, most fighters are limited to around 25 degrees AOA.

It is important to note that F-16s and F/A-18s are still regarded as one of the best dogfighting aircraft in the World and still able to hold their own against the likes of Typhoons, Rafales, Flankers and even Raptors

Conclusion: the F-35 will still enjoy tremendous agility and acceleration, other planes might be able to offer better agility, but it will be marginal, as human pilots can only go up to a little over 9Gs. the F-35 can go beyond that. so it doesn't matter if your airplane can go 15Gs because no pilot will find that useful anyway.

The F-35 brings more to the table than just agility, it will bring a lot of situational awareness while at the same time, robbing enemies of the awareness they so desperately need.

Radar: the aircraft has a very low radar signature against most types of radars.

Some critics will argue that low frequency (LF) radars like those created in the 1940s or 50s can detect stealth. This is actually true, however, LF radars are also very inaccurate.

They may alert you of the presence of stealth aircraft, but not exactly where, the speed, heading etc. not enough info to target the aircraft.

LF radars are also confused by many things like, clouds, dust, smoke, birds, insects, all of these things will look like a target for LF radars.

They are also ridiculously easy to jam, even by 1960 era jammers. imagine what the F-35's
AN/ASQ-239 advanced Barracuda jammer would do to it.

Infrared: the F-35 has an advanced thermal management system that circulates fuel around the aircraft to reduce it's thermal signature. the heat is absorbed by the fuel, not enough to ignite the fuel but enough to make IR countermeasures like flares more effective.

The F-35s engine nozzle may look more conventional than the F-22s flat thrust vectoring nozzle, but it is actually a product of the LOAN (low observable asymmetric nozzle) program, which reduces both radar and heat signatures.

However the F-35's APG-81 AESA radar changes frequencies thousands of times every second making it very difficult for Passive receivers to track it down, this is called LPI capability or Low probability of intercept.

The F-35 has some of the World's most advanced sensors
APG-81: a powerful AESA radar that is so advanced it can actually take a picture using nothing more than radar waves. This is called SAR mode.

AAQ-40 EOTS: an advanced optical camera that can zoom, identify and guide weapons to a target.

AAQ-37 DAS: 6 infra red cameras positioned around the aircraft that builds a 360 degree video of the aircraft then feeds it to the pilot's helmet. If the pilot looks down, he will not see the floor of the aircraft, he will see what the DAS camera located on the belly sees. If he looks behind, he will not see the back of his seat, he will see what the DAS camera behind the aircraft sees.

Fusion: 4th gen fighters had a different monitor for their radar, a different one for their passive radar receiver, and a different one for the Infrared sensor. Some targets can be seen by the IR sensor, but cant be seen by the radar, some targets can be detected by the radar, but can't be seen by the IR sensor. the pilot had to figure out which was which and draw a conclusion.

The F-35's sensor fusion engine does this all for him. The pilot simply looks at his screen and sees what target is out there. It doesn't matter which sensor is detecting what, all of them are located in one screen.

Even when loaded with 50% more fuel than the F-16, the F-35's wing loading is still better.
Its thrust to weight ratio is identical to the Block 50's.

This is the F/A-18's greatest kinematic strength. And it is what the Hornet is known and feared for in air-air combat.

The F-35 will also enjoy High AOA abilities. Its flight control surface AOA limit is 50 degrees and has been tested to 73 degrees with ease, most fighters are limited to around 25 degrees AOA.

It is important to note that F-16s and F/A-18s are still regarded as one of the best dogfighting aircraft in the World and still able to hold their own against the likes of Typhoons, Rafales, Flankers and even Raptors

Conclusion: the F-35 will still enjoy tremendous agility and acceleration, other planes might be able to offer better agility, but it will be marginal, as human pilots can only go up to a little over 9Gs. the F-35 can go beyond that. so it doesn't matter if your airplane can go 15Gs because no pilot will find that useful anyway.

specially as F-35 is not fast enough to escape from flankers.