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    Common Lies, Russophobia, Nonsense on Russia

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Wed Jul 10, 2019 12:59 pm

    He is clearly a hard line anti Russia nut so of course there would be plenty of American money to support him... how much they will actually spend to help Georgia improve its position and condition is another matter... there was US money in the 1990s to buy oil companies but very little for hospitals or schools or anything actually useful...
    Rodion_Romanovic
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Wed Jul 10, 2019 1:09 pm

    GarryB wrote:He is clearly a hard line anti Russia nut so of course there would be plenty of American money to support him... how much they will actually spend to help Georgia improve its position and condition is another matter... there was US money in the 1990s to buy oil companies but very little for hospitals or schools or anything actually useful...
    Or roads, the road going from Tblisi to Gudauri (that later continues to the russian border in direction of Vladivkavkaz is in a horrible state. In some parts half of the lane is totally destroyed
    kvs
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    Post  kvs Sun Jul 21, 2019 2:12 pm



    There is no English version of this channel, but the dissing is epic. In the above, the presenter disassembles some Georgian
    clown who demands $400 billion from Russia. He considers the fact that Georgia has a negative trade balance with Russia
    to be "theft". I guess the world must be stealing from poor little USA as well. The clown also yaps about Russians buying
    energy assets in Georgia at 30 times below market value. I am totally confused what the f*ck he is barking about. Georgia
    doesn't have any notable energy assets. The pompous Georgian chauvinist under discussion also trumpeted the business
    initiative of Georgians around 1990 while denigrating Russians for going out to demonstrate. Georgia ran some shadow economy
    shops that became irrelevant after the arrival of capitalism. Russia is painted as wrong-doing for not supporting these outfits.
    I guess Russians don't have any freedom of choice...

    And of course Abkhazia and South Ossetia are treated as territorial theft by Russia. I wonder what Kosovo is then. Unlike
    Kosovo was for Serbia, Abkhazia and South Ossetia were never indigenous territories of Georgia and were administrative "additions"
    by the Tsars and the Bolsheviks. Georgians are the last people that should speak on their behalf. Especially considering what
    transpired after 1990, when Ghamsakurdia slaughtered civilians with military assaults on these republics.
    kvs
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    Post  kvs Sun Jul 21, 2019 6:40 pm



    Not that this is new information, but the lunatics have taken over the Baltics chihuahua asylum. Some influential academic has
    excreted a report that calls for the ripping up of rail lines linking Baltic statelets to Russia. Naturally, the economic links are used
    as "evidence" of Russian aggression and meddling. Even 1984 double-think and new-speak never transcended such inanity.

    Given that historically these Baltic statelets were basically parasites on the trade route via the Gulf of Finland to Central Asia (via
    the Russian river network), these nazionalist intellectual fecal nuggets are something else. Go ahead, cut off trade with Russia.
    It does not hurt Russia, but it makes you into utter backwater basket cases. The reason why Singapore and Hong Kong flourish
    is mainly due to trade (and in fact their economies were founded on it). Without trade the Baltic statelets are utterly nothing.
    What retards.
    kvs
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    Post  kvs Sun Jul 21, 2019 9:47 pm



    Dissection of the recent series on Chernobyl. The series is total propaganda BS. A notable example is
    its claim that evacuations of civilians from the fallout zone only happened 2 days after the meltdown and
    only due to pressure from Europe. This is a brazen lie since almost 50,000 people were evacuated on the
    day after the meltdown. This required the collection of at least 1,000 buses without internet and cell phones.
    In other words, the evacuation was actually started on the day of the meltdown in terms of the logistics
    response. Gathering and fueling 1,000 buses would require a city much larger than Pripyat.

    This series also lies about the coercion of cleanup workers. The workers were volunteers. Various high
    ranking Soviet officials did not have armed guards in 1986. It also tries to make one of the key high
    ranking officials seem like a moron who would actually know the principles of reactor operation.

    It shows basically everyone swigging vodka straight from the bottle. In other words, Ukrainians and Russians
    are all clinical alcoholics.

    Another gem is the claim that Chernobyl experienced the meltdown because the USSR tried to save money
    building it. This is the same delusional, ignorant BS about how a command economy can go bankrupt
    by spending money. Hilarious retardation.
    Hole
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    Post  Hole Mon Jul 22, 2019 11:31 am

    One remark to the evacuation. Later studies showed that it was a failure to evacuate the people so quickly. They received the most radiation as they waited in the open for the busses. Today the experts say that it is the best to stay a few days inside the house (with closed doors and windows) until most of the radiation that was expelled at the accident has settled.
    kvs
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    Post  kvs Mon Jul 22, 2019 2:50 pm

    Hole wrote:One remark to the evacuation. Later studies showed that it was a failure to evacuate the people so quickly. They received the most radiation as they waited in the open for the busses. Today the experts say that it is the best to stay a few days inside the house (with closed doors and windows) until most of the radiation that was expelled at the accident has settled.

    Instead of making up fiction, the producers of the show could have used real life events to get a better story. Instead, they
    chose to politicize every freaking aspect.

    I disagree with the claim about better staying indoors. The fallout would only stick to the ground if there was rain and the ground was
    wet. If it was dry, which it was, the fallout dust would be remobilized by wind and people not wearing protection would be exposed. In
    fact, if they waited several days and allowed most of the fallout to accumulate, the wind blown fallout particulate would have been
    even worse than standing outside on the second day. It would have been worse if they stood outside in rain since rain would have brought
    down most of the fallout particulate. Under dry conditions, sedimentation is slow for the worst particles which are of the smallest
    diameter and get deep into the lungs.

    These studies you cite are, in my qualified opinion, dubious.
    Regular
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    Post  Regular Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:29 pm

    AFAIK people who had family in Russia or Belarus were out by their own means before even evacuation started. No one was holding them.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Wed Jul 24, 2019 4:28 am

    It seems there is a report in the NYT that is actually positive about Russia, and while it is not the establishment in the US, it is an indicator that perhaps they are starting to realise that China has much more potential to upset their current hegemony by offering an alternative to western leanings for the rest of the world than Russia does, so they are starting to think that the opposite of what they did in the cold war, where they used China against the Soviet Union, might be their best ploy now... use Russia and India against China...

    I am sure the liberals in both India and Russia would love the attention and limelight they would get from no longer being the enemy of the west, but I don't think the majority in Russia or India are that stupid... or are they?

    Sad as it sounds I think it would be better for Russia and India to remain separate from the west because the west doesn't know where it is heading... it seems companies have rather more control of laws passed in government, and they really only engineer those laws for their profits and ignore the average person... forgetting those average people are not only their workers but also their customers.

    The result so far is that they have put so much pressure on the average persons income and situation that quite often it makes more sense to send production offshore... so local people who want to buy their products can, but where can they find work to pay for it?  This leads to borrowing, which makes the banks and lending institutions richer, just so people can get their basics of life... hardly the American dream and certainly not a place china or russia want to head towards.

    https://www.rt.com/usa/464767-trump-russia-nyt-relationship-china/
    Regular
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    Post  Regular Wed Jul 24, 2019 9:50 am

    Russia shouldn't lean towards China culturally or politically.
    Any Chinese conflict against US should be used for profit.
    China is should be looked at with scepticism as time will show that how long they can play superpower before falling face down, just like USA.

    Last thing you want to do is to borrow from Chinese and have them influence your local politics. Russia should stay independent and have China as an ally without leaning or bending.
    kvs
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    Post  kvs Wed Jul 24, 2019 3:09 pm

    Regular wrote:Russia shouldn't lean towards China culturally or politically.
    Any Chinese conflict against US should be used for profit.
    China is should be looked at with scepticism as time will show that how long they can play superpower before falling face down, just like USA.

    Last thing you want to do is to borrow from Chinese and have them influence your local politics. Russia should stay independent and have China as an ally without leaning or bending.

    China is not a certain quantity. But the west is a 100%, 1000 year enemy of Russia.

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Thu Jul 25, 2019 12:58 am

    I can tell you right now that the west is a corrupting influence... if Russia wants to develop it needs to expand its trade and right now trade with the EU and US are stifled by those same entities... which is really a good thing for Russia because in terms of trade their big players would simply buy up or crush Russian businesses leading to the expansion of global corporations into a whole new market.

    The 100 billion a year trade with the EU has turned in to much less but trade with China has expanded to compensate and I think Russia should realise that trade on its own is good but trade with the west leads to demands from the west and criticism from the west about how Russia is not westernised enough... and I can tell you it wont get better, it will only get worse.

    Russia should look to China and Asia and India and Africa and central and south america for trade partners where Russia wont tell those countries what to do and they wont tell Russia what to do... you know... like a normal trade relationship... when you buy groceries from a shop the owner does not demand you accept there are 4 genders and that all your children have to be gay friendly... why would you be a customer at such a shop.
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    Post  kvs Sun Aug 11, 2019 12:02 am



    Retard parade.

    Some Banderastan ex-pat claims that Russian sounds like Klingon. To the average non-Slav, actually both
    Ukrainian and Russia sound very similar. For obvious reasons.

    Little whorelet pandering to American morons.

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sun Aug 11, 2019 8:08 am

    They mentioned an isotope as being part of the fuel being used, which probably relates to the radiation they are worried about.

    The Zircon uses very high energy fuel and testing it on the Onyx would be risky because its fuel system was not designed for the fuel being used in Zircon.

    I suspect this is Zircon high energy fuel being tested in an Onyx and the fuel system failing violently... that would be loading the fuel, not actually launching the missile when all the people would be safe inside bunkers for such a test.
    SeigSoloyvov
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:09 am

    kvs wrote:

    Retard parade.

    Some Banderastan ex-pat claims that Russian sounds like Klingon.   To the average non-Slav, actually both
    Ukrainian and Russia sound very similar.  For obvious reasons.

    Little whorelet pandering to American morons.


    -Sigh-

    That wasn't an insult, stop being so passive-aggressive every time someone says something about Russia. She just said to her the languages sound similar and I speak Russian and they are some similarities with the language, not alot but it's there.

    You'd honestly give Americans a very bad opinion of Russians if you acted like this to every single thing.

    Btw the Klingons political infrastructure was based on Communist Russia and Nazi Germany with attire looking some Asian cultures they were designed to be the finest warriors.

    So the creator based them off that.
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    Post  franco Sun Aug 11, 2019 1:37 pm

    She is actually of Ukrainian Russian descendant. Has not liked what has happened in Ukraine but has to be careful how much she says so...
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    Post  GarryB Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:00 am

    But why doesn't she like it... they are living the American dream aren't they?
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    Post  franco Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:41 pm

    GarryB wrote:But why doesn't she like it... they are living the American dream aren't they?

    Apparently some family history with Nazi Ukrainian nationalist... but vague on details so could all be BS.
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    Post  GarryB Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:34 am

    Well if it is because she opposes Ukrainian nazis then I can understand why she would not be happy with the state of the Ukraine...
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    Post  Regular Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:35 am

    franco wrote:
    GarryB wrote:But why doesn't she like it... they are living the American dream aren't they?

    Apparently some family history with Nazi Ukrainian nationalist... but vague on details so could all be BS.  

    She is jew. Her opinion matters nothing. When there are jews involved they stir the hate between any nationalities. She can pretend she is russian and insult ukrainian, then do vice versa. And when shit hits the fan- she becomes a jewish. These how it works with them and Israeli neighbors know it the best.
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    Post  flamming_python Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:41 pm

    Regular wrote:
    franco wrote:
    GarryB wrote:But why doesn't she like it... they are living the American dream aren't they?

    Apparently some family history with Nazi Ukrainian nationalist... but vague on details so could all be BS.  

    She is jew. Her opinion matters nothing. When there are jews involved they stir the hate between any nationalities. She can pretend she is russian and insult ukrainian, then do vice versa. And when shit hits the fan- she becomes a jewish. These how it works with them and Israeli neighbors know it the best.

    Ah Jesus Christ.

    What is it with you and your backwardness Regular?

    My father's Jewish - he's from the Ukraine, but came to Russia originally to study back in the Soviet era. Lived in Israel in the 90s for 6 months, but couldn't stand the nationalism and propaganda there; didn't identify with the Jewish state in any way. Defends Russia to foreigners, big critic of the government though among Russian-speakers, anti what he sees as adventures in the Ukraine. Lives abroad now in Europe and hasn't been back to Russia for nearly 10 years. But on the night that little stand-off happened with Trump over Syria he phoned me up to tell me that we should sink all the yankee ships to the bottom of the Meditteranean if they launch missiles at Russian bases; that enough is enough. I didn't have the heart to tell him that even if they did, that WW3 mutual mass-suicide wouldn't solve anyone's problems.

    I don't think Mila Kunis means to insult either Russians or Ukrainians. She said that people say Russian sounds like Klingon, but to her it sounds romantic. What's so offensive about that?

    American Jews are split between reactionary right-wing (who are further split into Zionists and those who are quite anti-Israel, but nationalists of Jewish identity), and those who are the same as other Americans and rapidly assimilate, intermarry and so on. There's also a minority of religious Jews there, who are also split into radical pro-Israeli sentiment and radical anti-Israeli sentiment (albeit more of the former). Among Russian Jews many assimilate into American society and the wider Jewish community there. There are also some that continue to identify with Russian/ex-Soviet culture; during the World Cup, there was a horde of Russian flag-waving in Brighton Beach.

    There's no such thing as what you're talking about. 2 Jews, 3 opinions as the saying goes. Maybe this confuses some people, that assume that every Jew is one and the same person, a schizophrenic hive mind. In as far as they're a single people, they have less cohesiveness on politics, sympathies, ideologies, etc... than other peoples, not more.

    Israelis act the way they do because it's the Middle East. Every minority there is opportunistic and ethno-nationalist seeking superpower patronage (Jews, Kurds, etc...), and the majorities are messianic-fundamentalist or chauvinist-assimilatory (Iranians, Arabs, Turks). This is what happens when regressive ideals are popular and regions are war-torn. Let's not build repeat all this in Europe.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:57 am

    But wouldn't that be called blowback... Europe... in particular Britain and France have done a lot of ground work in the Middle East to ensure conflict and prevent unity... a unified arab world would challenge the west seeing as how they happen to be sitting on the wests oil supply.

    Of course unity in the western world is about as hollow as unity in Europe...

    And I agree it is important to point out that there are Jews who think Israel is a bad idea and creates tension and hostility towards Jews with little to no chance of peace in the region... palestinians are not allowed a state why should jews have one?

    Or more precisely certain jews are preventing palestinians from statehood, why should those jews be allowed a state?
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    Post  flamming_python Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:58 pm

    GarryB wrote:But wouldn't that be called blowback... Europe... in particular Britain and France have done a lot of ground work in the Middle East to ensure conflict and prevent unity... a unified arab world would challenge the west seeing as how they happen to be sitting on the wests oil supply.

    Of course unity in the western world is about as hollow as unity in Europe...

    And I agree it is important to point out that there are Jews who think Israel is a bad idea and creates tension and hostility towards Jews with little to no chance of peace in the region... palestinians are not allowed a state why should jews have one?

    Or more precisely certain jews are preventing palestinians from statehood, why should those jews be allowed a state?

    Well we can use that argument against anyone can't we. The same Britain and France did plenty to prevent plenty of peoples establishing states in Africa, Asia, etc...
    America is a state only because its colonists wiped out the native people and their states first.
    Russia has its current form because it also colonized Siberia, the Caucasus.
    And so on.

    I prefer to think of things from a real perspective than an idealist one (whether good or bad ideals). Israel is a state, with millions of people that have already lived a few generations in it; no matter where they originally came from. One way or the other it won't be right to deport them or some such. Same as other states in the world. The trouble is not with the fact that it's a state, but with its politics. Maybe they should just not interfere and conduct operations, and that will be enough for a Palestinian state to come about. Maybe they should withdraw to its old borders and actively broker a compromise with the Palestinian elite class, facilitate the establishment of independent Palestine. It's possible that the only legitimate Israel is one that's not a Jewish one, but that's joint with Palestinian lands and people as well. I don't know, nor does it much concern me - it's just a tiny corner of a very big planet, and there are more important things to worry about in Russia.

    As for unity in Europe - it is certainly hollow as it doesn't have any sort of political-economic system that would allow that. Rather, one that makes social division, disenfranchisement with 'values', exploitation of the itinerant working class in poorer members, the rise of nationalist and reactionary political parties - all inevitable. However it's still way ahead of the Middle East; no need to regress quite that far.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Thu Aug 15, 2019 3:58 am

    The problem with unity in Europe is that it is forced... a group decides what everyone should think and then demands everyone think the same way they do... except the people of europe never get to chose who is part of that group, and they are often fairly radical and seem to be rather left.

    More of a problem is the people who are offended because other people don't agree with their views... without any discussion on the matter at all.

    Trump won the election because the Hilary group thought they had it in the bag and the media supported them in that view right up until she lost because she was doing enough to what she thought would get her a win and nothing more... she didn't care what all americans wanted or thought, she just said what she thought would get her 51% of the vote, and when it didn't happen it was everything else to blame... Russian hackers, Russian collusion...
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    Post  flamming_python Thu Aug 15, 2019 4:01 pm

    GarryB wrote:The problem with unity in Europe is that it is forced... a group decides what everyone should think and then demands everyone think the same way they do... except the people of europe never get to chose who is part of that group, and they are often fairly radical and seem to be rather left.

    They are neo-liberals. It's an ideology closer to the Hegelian principle than to anything based in material reality. In the 19th century, the Hegelian principle was used to explain that misery and social ills during industrialization came because people were becoming religiously alienated. Classic chicken before the egg falacy.

    Nowadays, the thinking is that 3rd world countries suffer because they are not 'democratic' enough. Domestic society suffers, because it is not 'tolerant' enough. All that's needed is to change people's patterns of thinking and demonize everyone who thinks differently, it's oh so simple.

    Liberalism claims to be the result of the enlightment, the triumph of reason over superstition. Perhaps in its original form it was true, but nowadays it has devolved to the form of a religion, and a moralistic value system. Be a better Christian, be a more enlightened liberal - and everything will be okay, all the ills of society will vanish. And if absolutely everyone in the world was a good liberal, or a good Muslim, or whatever - then there would be world peace. Yeah, good luck turning everyone to one set of ideals, and even more luck with the notion that they'll all follow these tenets faithfully. Here comes in the neccessity for a religious or ideological vanguard. Which will inevitably become corrupted after a few generations, even if they were once true believers.

    More of a problem is the people who are offended because other people don't agree with their views... without any discussion on the matter at all.

    In rather the same manner of past century religious intolerance and witch-hunts. If you believe in a set of religious doctrines for the basis of a society and another person believes in a different set of religious doctrines; of course there will be a conflict.

    In the same manner, when you believe in a bunch of ideological superstitions and a moral value system as the basis of a political system (you have your own idea of how people are supposed to be, and don't accept them for what they are as a result of their social, economic conditions and historical memory); you're going to come into conflict with those with different ideals. When Muslim immigrants in Europe are asked to integrate, they are actually being asked to swap their religion for another. Now of course many of those Muslim immigrants bring with them backward ideals themselves - but pressuring on them to adopt a (state-sponsored) different value system and for all intents and purposes - religion - will create tension. And even if they were all converted, it won't actually solve anything as the state is backwards itself and justifies war and aggression by some arbitrary morals; building 'freedom', 'democracy', etc.... (which the actual reasons in reality have little to do with). The stronger such states are and the more influence they have, the worse for the world.

    The state should not support any value system, it should be based on scientific reasoning. Or if it does, then concrete things everyone wants and can relate with - peace, economic development, education, etc... with progress, old antagonisms will go away by themselves.

    This is not to say that idealist values and religions have no value. They surely do - but only in the manner of an individual or collective philosophy and way of behavior towards other people. In that sense they are desirable, but in the field of politics, or any science - they're not.

    Trump won the election because the Hilary group thought they had it in the bag and the media supported them in that view right up until she lost because she was doing enough to what she thought would get her a win and nothing more... she didn't care what all americans wanted or thought, she just said what she thought would get her 51% of the vote, and when it didn't happen it was everything else to blame... Russian hackers, Russian collusion...

    Internal enemies too - white men, the patriarchy, etc...

    Couldn't be because she was a war-mongering power-hungry bitch and advocated more of the same, while Trump was a politician that whatever his views, actually seemed to be sincere in what he said, and came in from outside the democrat-republican establishment.

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