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    Common Lies, Russophobia, Nonsense on Russia

    kvs
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    Post  kvs on Mon Jun 08, 2015 5:18 am

    That publications graph is a joke. I bet they don't count publications in Russian scientific journals.

    The number of publications increases every year in western journals but the quality goes down. Funding
    agencies typically look a the number of papers a researcher produces and not their quality (they don't
    have the resources to evaluate quality). It's publish or perish entropy. Russia is backward in this regard.
    Russian scientists don't crank out incremental meat meat grinder pap and usually take their time
    producing publications.

    Then there is the variety of various "scientific" fields. Such as social science and economics. I bet this
    paper count generously samples from under every academic rock. I would automatically discount these
    papers as low value fluff.

    And the cherry on top are biomedical science papers. Check this link (it's not all science papers but medical ones):

    http://www.jove.com/blog/2012/05/03/studies-show-only-10-of-published-science-articles-are-reproducible-what-is-happening

    So the junk level of these papers is 70% to 90%.

    However, science has suffered greatly after 1991 (and even before) in Russia. The red curve in the graph is obviously
    a fraud since there was a clear collapse in paper output during the 1990s and it did not stop by 1996. The negative
    impact on paper count was making itself felt even during the 2000s. I would say that only in the last 5 years or so that
    there is more funding and hence more paper output in Russia. I am counting real papers and not the fluff this politically
    motivated graph is using to "prove" its case.
    kvs
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    Post  kvs on Mon Jun 08, 2015 5:20 am

    sepheronx wrote:Gotta love the fact that if so called brain drain was happening, that Russia manages to still design CPU's (which EU does not), work with GaN modules, creating electronics through using Photons, first to build a fast breeding reactor, research and develop vaccines for Ebola and HIV while most others are still trying to design one, Building Quantum Processor, developing new microscopes that are even exported to west, and advanced telescopes that are even exported too.

    Guess all those fleeing scientists really are not important.  But then again, they gained quite a few people in their country (so more new "educated" people entered the country) and well, helps when your nation is far more literate and educated than Americans.

    But then again, US and EU did openly say they will fund media organizations to "combat Russias propaganda".  I guess, that just means by adding their own propaganda and agenda.  Apparently Poland, according to EU, produces more scientific papers than Russia.  Yet, we don't see any technology breakthrough coming from Poland as they are still primarily agricltural.  I wonder how many of these "scientific" papers are nothing but garbage being thrown around to make it look like they are producing something?  Because, I fail to see what is being developed as "new" from EU.  So far, nothing. Nothing that is used day to day or even in production.

    Russia has real R&D with real benefits for society and with real results to show for it. The stupid linked graphic was throwing ever
    waste of paper it could find to "prove" that NATO's dick is bigger than Russia's. It really is at the level of school yard trash talk.
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    Post  collegeboy16 on Mon Jun 08, 2015 6:08 am

    EDIT: brainfart didnt read the scientific bit.


    Last edited by collegeboy16 on Mon Jun 08, 2015 7:05 am; edited 1 time in total
    GunshipDemocracy
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Mon Jun 08, 2015 10:38 am

    Rbrth, nature.com asnd other cr@p news - those who claimed that Russia's population  in 2020 will have at most 138mln people? then that Euro in  2015 will be over 100 rubles? all data is from independent NGO or CIA booklet or just Hollywood.

    I saw Indiana Jones and know exactly how primitive Russians are. BTW and in 90 sciene was blooming and nobody emigrated right ? Just add then 60 Russian brigades is fighting in Donbass and I am cool its all nothing true

    lol! lol! lol! lol! lol!


    And long as i see such cr@p in US publications I am confident Putin is going the right way russia


    BTW how you explain all new processors ,stealth planes rockets or T-14 if there is no science? Why China cannot still even correctly copy old soviet engines?
    Just rhetoric question L;)
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Mon Jun 08, 2015 10:46 am

    kvs wrote: Russia has real R&D with real benefits for society and with real results to show for it.   The stupid linked graphic was throwing ever
    waste of paper it could find to "prove" that NATO's dick is bigger than Russia's.   It really is at the level of school yard trash talk.

    c´mon itsa just a big banana in pants to prove this fact lol!
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    Post  flamming_python on Mon Jun 08, 2015 11:18 am

    AirCargo wrote:
    Russia's Smartest People Are Leaving In Droves

    http://www.businessinsider.com/r-disenchanted-with-putin-some-russians-vote-with-their-feet-2014-24

    I appreciate diversity of news, but how about discussing the news that you post?

    That article shows a picture from the Ukrainian-Russian border, portraying it as leaving Russians.

    This level of BS casts doubts on the whole article, which is dubious in of itself - a whole amount of sensationalism and very few actual statistics.
    GunshipDemocracy
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Mon Jun 08, 2015 12:21 pm

    kvs wrote: I guess, that just means by adding their own propaganda and agenda.  Apparently Poland, according to EU, produces more scientific papers than Russia.  Yet, we don't see any technology breakthrough coming from Poland as they are still primarily agricltural.

    Polish agricultural science in couple of examples, Razz  

    ITER fusion reactor> signal and image processing
    http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/articleDetails.jsp?reload=true&arnumber=7110630&sortType%3Dasc_p_Sequence%26filter%3DAND%28p_Publication_Number%3A23%29%26pageNumber%3D21


    or Particle accelerator  DESY (Germany)
    http://www.desy.de/news/@@news-view?id=1442&lang=eng
    http://www.researchgate.net/publication/224577969_Prototype_Control_System_for_Compensation_of_Superconducting_Cavities_Detuning_Using_Piezoelectric_Actuators


    also made by Polish farmers,

    http://www.europlanet-eu.org/outreach/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=339&Itemid=
    EU Mars rover competition won by Polish engineers


    http://spectrum.ieee.org/semiconductors/materials/the-worlds-best-gallium-nitride/
    A little Polish company you've never heard of is beating the tech titans in a key technology of the 21st century


    and here right after pigs are fed
    Stereoscopic TV, one of intl. test sequences si from Polish University, guess why
    http://www.researchgate.net/profile/Philippe_Hanhart2/publication/266080547_EyeC3D_3D_video_eye_tracking_dataset/links/5424b4510cf26120b7ac42e5.pdf


    and all this done by farmer Juzwa and family after harvests:
    Common Lies, Russophobia, Nonsense on Russia - Page 6 Encarta_0

    and him as coauthor
    http://www.nto.pl/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=NO&Date=20130117&Category=REGION&ArtNo=130119598&Ref=AR&border=0&MaxW=580

    lol!  lol!  lol![/quote]
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    Post  sepheronx on Mon Jun 08, 2015 2:11 pm

    None of that is new either. They were building particle accelerators even during soviet times. Lets face it, I can probably name more scientific production coming out of Russia than what comes out of Poland. Because if it wasnt the case, why isnt Poland a large industrial base country? Lack of aerospace, energy tech, semiconductor tech, etc.

    It isnt that Poland lacks educated people. It lacks market drive and are simply pushing similar western ideology of: more papers authorized. But how many of those end up being a thing? If it was the other case, Poland would have easily outdone Russia in tech progress and would be up there in terms of Germany. But it isnt. EU still sees Polish as backwards.
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Mon Jun 08, 2015 3:08 pm

    sepheronx wrote:None of that is new either. They were building particle accelerators even during soviet times. Lets face it, I can probably name more scientific production coming out of Russia than what comes out of Poland. Because if it wasnt the case, why isnt Poland a large industrial base country? Lack of aerospace, energy tech, semiconductor tech, etc.

    Because after coup in 89 there is not Polish industry anymore. Call is hostile takeover by West.´They do not need competiors they need human resources base and colony.
    Small SW or hi tech of course exist but they cannot invest billions in new tech.

    sepheronx wrote: It isnt that Poland lacks educated people. It lacks market drive and are simply pushing similar western ideology of: more papers authorized. But how many of those end up being a thing? If it was the other case, Poland would have easily outdone Russia in tech progress and would be up there in terms of Germany. But it isnt. EU still sees Polish as backwards.

    Because Poland is backward in terms of own industry. You know in Poland there are lotsa new automated factories. Cars, engines, parts for electronic or aerospace industries. Nokia Networks, Samsung or L&G R&Ds depts as well. The fun is none of them belong to Polish capital like 90% of banks or media. This is called brain drain isnt it?

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    Post  kvs on Tue Jun 09, 2015 2:15 am

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    kvs wrote: I guess, that just means by adding their own propaganda and agenda.  Apparently Poland, according to EU, produces more scientific papers than Russia.  Yet, we don't see any technology breakthrough coming from Poland as they are still primarily agricltural.

    That was not in any of my replies.   Please make the proper attribution.



    Polish agricultural science in couple of examples, Razz  

    ITER fusion reactor> signal and image processing
    http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/articleDetails.jsp?reload=true&arnumber=7110630&sortType%3Dasc_p_Sequence%26filter%3DAND%28p_Publication_Number%3A23%29%26pageNumber%3D21


    or Particle accelerator  DESY (Germany)
    http://www.desy.de/news/@@news-view?id=1442&lang=eng
    http://www.researchgate.net/publication/224577969_Prototype_Control_System_for_Compensation_of_Superconducting_Cavities_Detuning_Using_Piezoelectric_Actuators


    also made by Polish farmers,

    http://www.europlanet-eu.org/outreach/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=339&Itemid=
    EU Mars rover competition won by Polish engineers


    http://spectrum.ieee.org/semiconductors/materials/the-worlds-best-gallium-nitride/
    A little Polish company you've never heard of is beating the tech titans in a key technology of the 21st century


    and here right after pigs are fed
    Stereoscopic TV, one of intl. test sequences si from Polish University, guess why
    http://www.researchgate.net/profile/Philippe_Hanhart2/publication/266080547_EyeC3D_3D_video_eye_tracking_dataset/links/5424b4510cf26120b7ac42e5.pdf


    and all this done by farmer Juzwa and family after harvests:
    Common Lies, Russophobia, Nonsense on Russia - Page 6 Encarta_0

    and him as coauthor
    http://www.nto.pl/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=NO&Date=20130117&Category=REGION&ArtNo=130119598&Ref=AR&border=0&MaxW=580

    lol!  lol!  lol!

    I never dissed Poland because of its science.   But I have dissed Poland because of its attitude to Russia and the fact that they
    are practically kissing Stepan Bandera in the mouth right now their rabid support for the regime in Kiev.
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Tue Jun 09, 2015 10:14 am

    kvs wrote: I never dissed Poland because of its science.   But I have dissed Poland because of its attitude to Russia and the fact that they
    are practically kissing Stepan Bandera in the mouth right now their rabid support for the regime in Kiev.

    Poland or Polish folks are not the same as compradores since 89. I have met 1 only 1 Pole who tried to justify sudden love to UPA nazi scum. But do you expect that in ¨free media¨they show this?
    and I have also personal reasons to hate nazi scumbags form OUN.
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    Post  Walther von Oldenburg on Wed Jun 10, 2015 12:12 pm

    kvs wrote:That publications graph is a joke.  I bet they don't count publications in Russian scientific journals.  

    The number of publications increases every year in western journals but the quality goes down.   Funding
    agencies typically look a the number of papers a researcher produces and not their quality (they don't
    have the resources to evaluate quality).   It's publish or perish entropy.   Russia is backward in this regard.
    Russian scientists don't crank out incremental meat meat grinder pap and usually take their time
    producing publications.

    Then there is the variety of various "scientific" fields.   Such as social science and economics.   I bet this
    paper count generously samples from under every academic rock.   I would automatically discount these
    papers as low value fluff.  

    And the cherry on top are biomedical science papers.   Check this link (it's not all science papers but medical ones):

    http://www.jove.com/blog/2012/05/03/studies-show-only-10-of-published-science-articles-are-reproducible-what-is-happening

    So the junk level of these papers is 70% to 90%.  

    However, science has suffered greatly after 1991 (and even before) in Russia.  The red curve in the graph is obviously
    a fraud since there was a clear collapse in paper output during the 1990s and it did not stop by 1996.   The negative
    impact on paper count was making itself felt even during the 2000s.   I would say that only in the last 5 years or so that
    there is more funding and hence more paper output in Russia.    I am counting real papers and not the fluff this politically
    motivated graph is using to "prove" its case.
    The US still leads the research in many fields - medical research is absolutely dominated by the US together with space industry while EU leads in physics
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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Fri Jun 26, 2015 8:15 am

    NATO propagandist and Serbian 5th column member is upset that 'Russia as a country still exists':




    ...Anyone still questioning whether NATO wants Russia Balkanized?

    Then there's the infamous Madeleine Albright quote:

    "Siberia is too large and rich to belong to one country." - Madeleine Albright
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    Post  Neutrality on Fri Jun 26, 2015 10:21 am

    If Russia EVER gets Balkanized throuugh Western intervention then they'll finally have their Pandora's Box. All those movies like The Sum of All Fears and Crimson Tide will become reality. All kinds of leaders having their hands on the nuclear button? I don't think they really want that.
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    Post  kvs on Sat Jun 27, 2015 6:57 pm

    This is unrelated to military issues, but it highlights how western propaganda brainwashes the gullible masses.

    The stories about Yuschenko being "poisoned" with dioxin and the Nord Ost theater siege are worked into Hollywood
    movies and TV.   For example, the movie Transcendence the poison cake is supposedly laced with dioxin.   This is
    pure nonsense since dioxin does not act like a regular poison and kills you on the spot.   It makes you sick and then
    you can die later due to complications.   Yuschenko's face was disfigured by chloracne that result from dioxin ingestion
    but he is very much alive today.   That Hollywood felt the need to pimp dioxin as a "poison" shows political motivation
    and not just script writer creativity.

    Then they also include Polonium in the bullet that kills a key character. This is obvious brainwashing. How about
    including some dimethyl mercury in the bullet. A tiny amount of it will kill you in a slow manner. BTW, the UK did
    not open up its reactors for verification on the source of the Polonium that killed Litvinenko. Litvinenko's patron
    Berezvosky also died after he had a falling out with the western elites and wrote letters to Putin trying to arrange
    for a return to Russia. How convenient.

    The TV show NCIS had one episode where the Dubrovka theater hostage rescue was smeared as "Russians using poison
    gas".   It was actually an anesthetic gas and the reason that many hostages died was because it is difficult to control
    the dose and resuscitation has to be prompt.   People died from asphyxia because their breathing was put to sleep
    and the paramedics were delayed from reaching the scene.   It is tragic but all the western masturbation about how
    25% of the hostages died was grotesque and obscene.    Hostage rescues are very messy and such a death rate is
    actually considered a "success".  

    I noticed this brainwashing via the entertainment industry a long time ago.   Political themes and events were regularly
    worked into movies and TV during the cold war.   It is pathetic that westerners can have their views on world events
    be framed via fiction.
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    Post  sepheronx on Sat Jun 27, 2015 8:47 pm

    As of right now, with Putin's popularity up to 89% and that Russians account for about 95% of the population from far east to far west of Russia, nearly impossible. Only regions that could potentially separate are Chechnya, Daegestan, Ingushetia, and some others. Tatarstan couldn't as it would be completely surrounded and an economic blockade would destroy it, plus half of the population is Russian. It is real wishful thinking of the US government because majority of them are so stupidly ignorant that they think that Russians would turn on other Russians, as they don't see them the same people but similar to like Serbs and Croats or something.

    But chalk it up to US politicians to be this stupid. Oh, and some Serbian witch that goes in contrary what her country wants.
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    Post  sepheronx on Sat Jun 27, 2015 8:51 pm

    kvs wrote:This is unrelated to military issues, but it highlights how western propaganda brainwashes the gullible masses.

    The stories about Yuschenko being "poisoned" with dioxin and the Nord Ost theater siege are worked into Hollywood
    movies and TV.   For example, the movie Transcendence the poison cake is supposedly laced with dioxin.   This is
    pure nonsense since dioxin does not act like a regular poison and kills you on the spot.   It makes you sick and then
    you can die later due to complications.   Yuschenko's face was disfigured by chloracne that result from dioxin ingestion
    but he is very much alive today.   That Hollywood felt the need to pimp dioxin as a "poison" shows political motivation
    and not just script writer creativity.

    Then they also include Polonium in the bullet that kills a key character.   This is obvious brainwashing.  How about
    including some dimethyl mercury in the bullet.   A tiny amount of it will kill you in a slow manner.   BTW, the UK did
    not open up its reactors for verification on the source of the Polonium that killed Litvinenko.   Litvinenko's patron
    Berezvosky also died after he had a falling out with the western elites and wrote letters to Putin trying to arrange
    for a return to Russia.   How convenient.  

    The TV show NCIS had one episode where the Dubrovka theater hostage rescue was smeared as "Russians using poison
    gas".   It was actually an anesthetic gas and the reason that many hostages died was because it is difficult to control
    the dose and resuscitation has to be prompt.   People died from asphyxia because their breathing was put to sleep
    and the paramedics were delayed from reaching the scene.   It is tragic but all the western masturbation about how
    25% of the hostages died was grotesque and obscene.    Hostage rescues are very messy and such a death rate is
    actually considered a "success".  

    I noticed this brainwashing via the entertainment industry a long time ago.   Political themes and events were regularly
    worked into movies and TV during the cold war.   It is pathetic that westerners can have their views on world events
    be framed via fiction.

    The people who actually believe this stuff should try it at home to see if it works or such. Would love to hear about that on the news.

    People are becoming inherently retarded, at least from the US and even Canada. But whatever, they will have to live with whatever consequences (well, we are already seeing the consequences of our stupidity - hear about the guy from Winnipeg that was arrested for saying he cant blame ISIS for wanting to kill us, because what we have done in the middle east?). Our entire country is turning into one giant shithole and Harper is clearly helping with having NOS added to the vehicle that is our country.
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    Post  ExBeobachter1987 on Sat Jun 27, 2015 10:48 pm

    Ukrainian were once Russians and they did turn against Russia.
    It is not impossible to turn the present-day Russians against each other.
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    Post  Werewolf on Sat Jun 27, 2015 10:51 pm

    We've seen what just 23 years can do, ukrainians today believe they are not russians but an own ethnicity with the name "At-boarder-living" and kill their own people on behalf of zionazis and americans while screaming suicidal phrases "Death to russians".

    I actually wish someone would do that to US so they can have decade long civil war of their own and leave rest of the world alone, propsering and thriving.
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    Post  Vann7 on Sun Jun 28, 2015 1:01 am

    Werewolf wrote:We've seen what just 23 years can do, ukrainians today believe they are not russians but an own ethnicity with the name "At-boarder-living" and kill their own people on behalf of zionazis and americans while screaming suicidal phrases "Death to russians".

    I actually wish someone would do that to US so they can have decade long civil war of their own and leave rest of the world alone, propsering and thriving.

    Werewolf wrote:We've seen what just 23 years can do, ukrainians today believe they are not russians but an own ethnicity with the name "At-boarder-living" and kill their own people on behalf of zionazis and americans while screaming suicidal phrases "Death to russians".

    I actually wish someone would do that to US so they can have decade long civil war of their own and leave rest of the world alone, propsering and thriving.

    Is not actually that difficult..
    Any new born ukrainian after the 90s.. had to be born under a
    New Government bribed by the west to promote Rusophobia nation wide.
    If you have people from childhood being told Russians eat babies and they are mongols painted white,Ukrainians will believe it..  The CIANazification of Ukraine began with the split of Ukraine
    from soviet union in 90s.. and all the way integrated on its education system.. including children text books. But the first DeRusophication was made by Germans few years before World War 1 and Bolshevick Revolution. But Ironically the major De-Rusophication of Ukraine came from
    the Soviet union . Because of the banning of religion and chistianity from Russian lands.. and when bolshevicks jews came to Power in Russia for first time. Ukrainians compared Europe with Soviet Union Communism and noticed how superior was the standard of living of Europeans vs
    them.. Probably had never a bolshevick revolution happened in Russia ,Ukraine will have never existed and only one language existed.. Russian. But Combination of Western Europropaganda
    with Soviets Union repression on Religion and other things ,helped to create separatism.
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    Post  Regular on Sun Jun 28, 2015 1:43 am

    Werewolf wrote:We've seen what just 23 years can do, ukrainians today believe they are not russians but an own ethnicity with the name "At-boarder-living" and kill their own people on behalf of zionazis and americans while screaming suicidal phrases "Death to russians".

    I actually wish someone would do that to US so they can have decade long civil war of their own and leave rest of the world alone, propsering and thriving.
    It took a year to turn majority of Ukrainians against Russians. While only few Russians hate Ukrainians as for now.
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    Post  sepheronx on Sun Jun 28, 2015 1:45 am

    ExBeobachter1987 wrote:Ukrainian were once Russians and they did turn against Russia.
    It is not impossible to turn the present-day Russians against each other.

    Yes and no.  Prior to Russian Tsar ruling, a huge portion of western Ukraine was part of Poland and for hundreds of years, would have had anti Russian sentiment.  A huge portion of Ukraine now is being governed by western Ukraine and the anti Russian sentiment is mostly from those regions.  You may hear it coming from eastern Ukraine too, but how much do you want to bet it is people whom are not of Russian-Ukrainian heritage.  It is predominantly the Polish Ukrainians and their compatriots that are a problem.

    Eastern Russians and Western Russians are simply Russians, and there was never a question about identity and such in any part of history, be it recent or farther past.  So I don't buy into the whole "they can be taught to be different".

    Regular wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:We've seen what just 23 years can do, ukrainians today believe they are not russians but an own ethnicity with the name "At-boarder-living" and kill their own people on behalf of zionazis and americans while screaming suicidal phrases "Death to russians".

    I actually wish someone would do that to US so they can have decade long civil war of their own and leave rest of the world alone, propsering and thriving.
    It took a year to turn majority of Ukrainians against Russians. While only few Russians hate Ukrainians as for now.

    Anti Russian indoctrination happened for quite a long time.  Let us not forget that now, Russia is swimming with Ukrainians whom are fleeing Ukraine.  Clearly not all Ukrainians are anti Russians.  Simply they were too stupid to see what they were doing.

    Only ones whom are screaming death to Russians are usually the useful idiots.

    This was posted in the Ukrainian thread:



    Ukrainianization has been going on for a very long time. Now that Soviet Union is no more and Russia is its own entity, the concept of Ukrainianization or balkaninization of Russia will not be able to happen. This is currently evident. What is even more funny is that in the last 20+ years, Russia has been under ridiculous amount of bullshit from foreign entities and they have been pushing the balkanization of Russia for some time, and now Russian identity is more powerful than ever. I wonder why? Because Russians are not stupid.
    kvs
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    Post  kvs on Sun Jun 28, 2015 4:24 am

    Regular wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:We've seen what just 23 years can do, ukrainians today believe they are not russians but an own ethnicity with the name "At-boarder-living" and kill their own people on behalf of zionazis and americans while screaming suicidal phrases "Death to russians".

    I actually wish someone would do that to US so they can have decade long civil war of their own and leave rest of the world alone, propsering and thriving.
    It took a year to turn majority of Ukrainians against Russians. While only few Russians hate Ukrainians as for now.

    This is patently false. The brainwashing started even before 1991. The Holodomor myth was used to poison relations between
    Russians and a minority of Ukrainians. Given the polling results over the last 10+ years, 50% of Ukrainians do not hate Russians.
    These Ukrainians have been robbed of their voice by the coup dictatorship. Holding votes with only the anti-Russian parties
    participating is a sham. That is in addition to having goons controlling the electoral commission so none of the voting can even
    be trusted.
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    Post  sepheronx on Sun Jun 28, 2015 6:26 am

    kvs wrote:
    Regular wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:We've seen what just 23 years can do, ukrainians today believe they are not russians but an own ethnicity with the name "At-boarder-living" and kill their own people on behalf of zionazis and americans while screaming suicidal phrases "Death to russians".

    I actually wish someone would do that to US so they can have decade long civil war of their own and leave rest of the world alone, propsering and thriving.
    It took a year to turn majority of Ukrainians against Russians. While only few Russians hate Ukrainians as for now.

    This is patently false.  The brainwashing started even before 1991.   The Holodomor myth was used to poison relations between
    Russians and a minority of Ukrainians.  Given the polling results over the last 10+ years, 50% of Ukrainians do not hate Russians.
    These Ukrainians have been robbed of their voice by the coup dictatorship.   Holding votes with only the anti-Russian parties
    participating is a sham.   That is in addition to having goons controlling the electoral commission so none of the voting can even
    be trusted.

    It wasn't even that.  During last elections, the turn out rate was apparently appalling, about as appalling as Poroshenko's party total votes, which sadly enough, was the majority (a little over 20%).

    I have little faith in Ukraine, but let us not assume that the whole nation is anti Russian.  I imagine if Russia just walked in Ukraine, there would be a massive partisan group easily willing to work with Russia.  Most are simply afraid.

    If the US would try to be successful in doing such an attempt of balkanization of Russia, they would have tried it in the 90's when Russia had no money. They wont be able to. The other issue is that like I mentioned, Russians all over Russia view themselves as Russian, and there hasn't been any push for self identity amongst them as well, it is simple really. And let us be real here, now that Russia is far richer than they were before, and as well, their government has been pushing hard against foreign NGO's and dealing with them properly, it will be nearly impossible for them. In Ukraine, for such a long time, there was constantly anti Russian, pro Ukrainian and Polish sentiment, even before soviet union. Yugoslavia is another matter too since we all know they pitted one another against each other using the "history" against each other. It would defiantly be hard to use history against these regions in Russia as it was Russians who moved into these regions hundreds of years ago, and pretty much outnumber the local populations, not to mention interracial marriages (Shugoi is an example).
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    Post  medo on Sun Jun 28, 2015 10:17 am

    ExBeobachter1987 wrote:Ukrainian were once Russians and they did turn against Russia.
    It is not impossible to turn the present-day Russians against each other.

    Not really. Russian part of Ukraine, which was in history known as Malorussia is fighting against Ukraine for their connections with Russia. The western part of Ukraine, which hate Russia was never part of Russia but part of Poland. If you listen them, you will find out, that their Ukrainian language have a lot of Polish words. There is not only Russia-Poland division, but also religion division as Russian part is Orthodox christian and Polish part is more Catholic christian.

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