oth long range bombers that tactical aircraft that already enjoy a combat range advantage against western counterparts wrote:
Mindstorm, what advantage does Russian tactical aviation have over Western aviation?
oth long range bombers that tactical aircraft that already enjoy a combat range advantage against western counterparts wrote:
Arrow wrote:
oth long range bombers that tactical aircraft that already enjoy a combat range advantage against western counterparts wrote:
Mindstorm, what advantage does Russian tactical aviation have over Western aviation?
Mindstorm wrote:Arrow wrote:
oth long range bombers that tactical aircraft that already enjoy a combat range advantage against western counterparts wrote:
Mindstorm, what advantage does Russian tactical aviation have over Western aviation?
In the statement you have reported it clearly specified the parameter to which i refere.
Precisely i was attempting to highlight how combat range of tactical aircraft force of the Federation surpass sensibly those of western counterparts and how this parameter would be used (togheter with the higher engagement range of the air to ground theatre to strategic missiles) to attack the enemy air bases , to progressively degrade its air forces potential, starting from froendly air bases effectively unreachable for enemy aviation.
Су-30CМ, Су-34, Су-35C and Су-57 all outrange ,often significantly, theirs western counterparts.
Arrow wrote:Western aviation has many cruise missiles with such capabilities. Russia has such capabilities but only through strategic aviation. Tactical aviation can only attack targets from a direct distance.
Isos wrote:There is no real need to carrybthe missile internally if it has enough stand off range to stay outside of the enemy engagement zone.
Intercepting a su-57 or any fighter jet that can supercruise more than 500km away is very difficult.
Mindstorm wrote:Arrow wrote:Western aviation has many cruise missiles with such capabilities. Russia has such capabilities but only through strategic aviation. Tactical aviation can only attack targets from a direct distance.
Name those western air delivered cruise missiles that allow to attack from "safe distance" ,excluding obviously JASSM and JASSM-ER , that are the weapons in debate.![]()
Isos wrote:The su-57 with a kh-59mk2 may have the range but it would be suicide mission to send it attack US bases in Germany because even if it is stealth and all that it will be dead alone so deep in enemy territory.
Mindstorm wrote:Isos wrote:The su-57 with a kh-59mk2 may have the range but it would be suicide mission to send it attack US bases in Germany because even if it is stealth and all that it will be dead alone so deep in enemy territory.
, those F-35s would moreover not receive any guidance from any multi-spectral long range radar or space-based surveillance systems.
Mindstorm wrote:Isos wrote:The su-57 with a kh-59mk2 may have the range but it would be suicide mission to send it attack US bases in Germany because even if it is stealth and all that it will be dead alone so deep in enemy territory.
Well that is not the informed opinion, as result of extensive simulations, among MoD planners.
The model take into account 4 main points :
1) The almost complete absence, in western military architecture, of high-gain, multi-band radar with integrated signal processing (the development of which was an almost two decades long affair....).
2) The lack of high performance very-long-range air defense systems to the level ,such as C-400 or С-300В4.
3) The lack of any high mobile modern medium and short range defense, with optronic tracking back-up channels, capable to possibly ambush incoming Cu-57 passing in theirs defended area or to neutralize the delivered missiles at the target's position.
4) The commitment by part of western Air Forces ,within the next three decades, for interception and air denial missions , on a fleet of almost exclusively subsonic tactical aircraft - F-35 -
The chances that ,even already-in-the-air squadrons of F-35A (having much lower altitude limits that hinder the kinematic performances of theirs air to air missiles and lower theirs authonomy) will be capable to intercept a similar stand-off attack group of Cu-57, maintaining reduced RCS configuration, would be abysmally low., those F-35s would moreover not receive any guidance from any multi-spectral long range radar or space-based surveillance systems.
The most complex situations and scenario would be the one taking into account the deployment of the entire fleet of F-22s in the European theatre ,that will obviously complicate thosew kind of mission and operations in the South Western European sectors for the effect of French Nostradamus OTH radar.
Arrow wrote:Why ? Since France has OTH radar, they see air traffic in quite a large part of European Russia.
As said deep air operations, like that previously described, in the Western and South-western european targets would be very difficult to carry on because interceptors could be cued toward the incoming aircraft by Nostradamus and therefore would require a level of corollary asset for the strike squadrons very big and also with them the success would be seriously in question. wrote:
Arrow wrote:I wonder how accurate the OTH container is. Apparently he was observing the F-35 in the Middle East near the Iranian border. With the fact that F-35 is easier to detect than B-2 and F-117.
So all that remains is hypersonic missile attack? Kindzal, Gzur, Zirkon. Zircon is a little short range.
Ironically what will happen in the reality is that those wester "supposedly" VLO aircraft will be attacked from short (DAS range) to very close range by enemy tactical aircraft or interceptors with way better kinematic performances and superior missiles and moreover completely by surprise.
Isos wrote:Awacs can track at very long range su-27/30/35 or mig-29/31 and mig-31. There won't be surprise attack by any side.
Isos wrote:The mini aerial war between india and pakistan shows what new wars will be: everyone sees everything and the one with more fighters/missiles at the right place and right moment wins the battle.
Isos wrote:Yes but they will see the sukhoi. Maybe not the su-57 but all the other have big rcs. So the Awacs will tell the other jets where they are before beung destroyed or retreating.
Yes but they will see the sukhoi. Maybe not the su-57 but all the other have big rcs. So the Awacs will tell the other jets where they are before beung destroyed or retreating.
I'm not debating about how good awacs are but only saying that they will see older sukhoi pretty far away and the surprise attacks are very unlikely.
But then like you say it depends of what you do. R-37M is a dangerous weapon for them.
That's true. But it's only because NATO and Russian pilots are way better trained than third world AF pilots from India & Pakistan. Moreover, NATO and Russia will also have access to far more resources, military hardware than any third world country.Mindstorm wrote:
That is not true for war between most advanced nations.
If AWACS are indeed not that useful then why is Russia using the IL-76? AWACS at least in the US were never designed to enter enemy airspace. But we did enter enemy airspace in Iraq, Afghanistan once our fighters established air superiority.Mindstorm wrote:AWACS type of both sides would be near to unemployable except well deep in friendly territory in defensive mission behind the protection of several layers of IAD nodes and DCA screens and also so theirs average survival rate would be marketedly low.
MiG-31s/Su-34s, J-20s & S-400/500 (land &/ ship based) can shoot them down deep inside "friendly" airspace.AWACS, JSTARS operate from inside friendly airspace and provide real time information to blue forces.
RTN wrote:If AWACS are indeed not that useful then why is Russia using the IL-76?.
RTN wrote:
AWACS at least in the US were never designed to enter enemy airspace. But we did enter enemy airspace in Iraq, Afghanistan once our fighters established air superiority.
AWACS, JSTARS operate from inside friendly airspace and provide real time information to blue forces
Isos wrote:US won't send AWACS inside enemy territory. They will try to clean step by step enemy airspace from the front line. They are not stupid.
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