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    Tu-22M3: News

    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK on Fri Apr 17, 2020 10:14 am

    The crew at work in their office.

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    MilitaryRussia.Ru
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    Wow! Three training variants of Kh-22N with Tu-22M3 BACKFIRE
    https://russianplanes.net/id265496


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    Post  ahmedfire on Fri Apr 17, 2020 10:16 pm

    Looks like the missiles were just being cooked Very Happy
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    Post  Isos on Fri Apr 17, 2020 11:27 pm

    They are monsters ! You can compare the size with the cockpit window and the pilot near the same window on the first picture.
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    Post  JohninMK on Sun May 03, 2020 7:30 pm

    She looks pretty menacing in full size photo

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    Post  d_taddei2 on Fri May 08, 2020 7:32 pm

    a few of my pics. first pic the Tu-22m2 (notice intakes) and then after Tu-22m3. in the second last picture is a KH-22NA version used to carry a with a 350–1000-kiloton nuclear warhead and last pic i have included because even hough it has the nose cone of the Tu-160 the shape and size of the aircraft easily looks a variant of the Tu-22, its the Tu-134UBL a Tu-160 crew training version, with Tu-160 nose cone . enjoy

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    Post  GarryB on Sat May 09, 2020 8:53 am

    As you mentioned the Tu-134UBL was intended for crew training for Tu-160 crews... enough room to get a dozen crews in at a time for training and practise so other crews can "feel" the mistakes of other crews in real time...

    But I remember looking at pictures of this plane in the 1990s and thinking it was cheaper to operate... would it make sense to fit some real bombs to this plane and other airliners with similar modifications.

    Then when the Russians started talking about their Gefest & T automatic bombing system I thought back to this design as a dual purpose training model that can be used in some theatres as a bomber itself.

    I mean if they are making another 50 Tu-160s then they are going to need to train personnel, but then a great way to save money would be to modify a brand new jet aircraft perhaps with a fly by wire system and also four engines to properly replicate managing four engines... you could add the bombing system at a fairly early design stage and fit it out to look like a White Swan with plenty of capacity for dumb bombs that could be released with precision on targets in all sorts of places at very low costs.

    Sure the west will complain about the innocent victims of the Russian bombing rampages that hit schools and hospitals and churches and weddings of course but for training crews, reducing the needed flight hours on rather more expensive aircraft, yet offering more realistic training especially if the actual radar is used so you could train to bomb targets and check your results with various cameras and perhaps even a rear facing radar for altitude bombing missions... on the cheap.
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    Post  d_taddei2 on Sat May 09, 2020 11:00 pm

    GarryB wrote:As you mentioned the Tu-134UBL was intended for crew training for Tu-160 crews... enough room to get a dozen crews in at a time for training and practise so other crews can "feel" the mistakes of other crews in real time...

    But I remember looking at pictures of this plane in the 1990s and thinking it was cheaper to operate... would it make sense to fit some real bombs to this plane and other airliners with similar modifications.

    Then when the Russians started talking about their Gefest & T automatic bombing system I thought back to this design as a dual purpose training model that can be used in some theatres as a bomber itself.

    I mean if they are making another 50 Tu-160s then they are going to need to train personnel, but then a great way to save money would be to modify a brand new jet aircraft perhaps with a fly by wire system and also four engines to properly replicate managing four engines... you could add the bombing system at a fairly early design stage and fit it out to look like a White Swan with plenty of capacity for dumb bombs that could be released with precision on targets in all sorts of places at very low costs.

    Sure the west will complain about the innocent victims of the Russian bombing rampages that hit schools and hospitals and churches and weddings of course but for training crews, reducing the needed flight hours on rather more expensive aircraft, yet offering more realistic training especially if the actual radar is used so you could train to bomb targets and check your results with various cameras and perhaps even a rear facing radar for altitude bombing missions... on the cheap.
    I don't see why not I think only reason is that they are no longer being produced and many fell into neglect or Air Forces not having ti-160 was most likely reason and would Russia be keen to buy back?
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    Post  GarryB on Sun May 10, 2020 6:12 am

    I suspect planning to build 50 new Tu-160s would justify a new airliner conversion or two... the question is... do they want the old Tupolev or would they prefer a newer design.

    I would suspect a newer design would make more sense as the radar and avionics would all need to be replaced anyway, and a modern aircraft probably has more flexibility in terms of the flight control systems mimicking the flight characteristics of the actual aircraft.

    The old aircraft didn't handle like a White Swan, but enabled the crews to practise working together using the same avionics as that fitted to the bomber... I would expect the old Tupolev didn't feel like a supersonic bomber very much, but that wasn't the point... the point was training in the air with the same avionics as those fitted to the bomber with a radar with the same performance for finding and pretending to hit actual targets with practise bombs perhaps...

    Certainly the bigger the plane the more it could carry, the longer range it could cover with greater payloads, so for alternative uses like cheap high altitude bomber it would be more useful, but the bigger and longer ranged it is the more expensive it will be to buy and operate.

    Something smaller would save money... if you were smart you could include a Tu-160 type inflight refuelling probe so they could practise that and also extend range/edurance as well. Internal weapon bays could be used for bombs and air to air missiles like the ones used in new stealth fighters and tested for the new stealth bomber...

    Being essentially a cheap bomber emulator it could be used in lower intensity conflicts and also sold... with reduced avionics and systems to countries as a medium to high altitude bomber using cheap dumb bombs they could make themselves...

    They could even use EW and targeting pods for testing and evaluation because you could have various seats on board with displays for the pods carried so tests can go on independently. Such pods might be useful for using optical or laser guided weapons as well and of course self defence pods would be useful even in low intensity conflicts just in case... models could also be sold for export too.
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    Post  Hole on Sun May 10, 2020 1:17 pm

    Tu-22M3: News - Page 26 000256
    Tu-214LMK. For testing of some electronic components of the Tu-160M2 (Maybe some stuff for PAK-DA). Can also be used as Trainer.
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    Post  GarryB on Sun May 10, 2020 3:19 pm

    Nice... and could be sold in a downgraded form to allies wanting a cheap bomber.

    For a country like Iraq or Syria wanting to deal with terrorists then an aircraft like this would be cheap to operate and could be unified with civilian Tu-214s they operate commercially domestically.

    They wont need Blackjack level equipment on board, just the Gefest & T systems and the capacity to carry some bombs externally should do the job.
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    Post  Isos on Sun May 10, 2020 10:57 pm

    That's an awsome design for all those specialized military versions. Too bad it failed on civilian market.
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    Post  thegopnik on Mon May 11, 2020 4:28 am

    I believe we got ourselves a 3rd brand new hypersonic missile boys.

    https://tass.com/defense/1154995

    Having hard time copying and pasting the news report. its for the tu-22m3 just in case someone says this is on the wrong thread.
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    Post  miketheterrible on Mon May 11, 2020 6:30 am

    Awesome. Guaranteed its based around the Kinzhal. Unless it is a cruise missile.
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    Post  dino00 on Mon May 11, 2020 10:34 am

    I don't think it has anything to do with Khynzal, this is probably the GZUR missile attack

    An Hypersonic air launched cruise missile, an cousin of Zircon, an older brother of the missile for SU-57.
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    Post  GarryB on Mon May 11, 2020 12:11 pm

    That's an awsome design for all those specialized military versions. Too bad it failed on civilian market.

    Never say never... the Russian military buying these and a few other variants could stimulate the civilian market to buy some too... they could upgrade the design and give it new engines with something in the PD family of aircraft engines to make it efficient. Increase the composite materials in the structure to make it lighter... aerodynamics haven't changed that much...

    I believe we got ourselves a 3rd brand new hypersonic missile boys.

    I would guess this is Gzur?

    The Kh-32 is rocket based, so I would hope they don't continue down that path simply because the chemicals needed are pretty nasty, but it gets the job done I suppose.

    With new scramjet motor designs however they should be able to use less energetic fuels to achieve much better performance...

    The first model Gzur is supposed to be a mach 6 x 1,500km range that is about 6 metres long to fit in the internal weapon bays of the Bear and Backfire with a weight of about 1.5 tons. Later versions of this weapon are expected to be bigger and faster and longer ranged...

    It is not supposed to be related to any other previous missile type and based on the specs I would guess is a replacement for the Kh-15 Kickback defence penetration missile....
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    Post  dino00 on Mon May 11, 2020 12:38 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    That's an awsome design for all those specialized military versions. Too bad it failed on civilian market.


    I believe we got ourselves a 3rd brand new hypersonic missile boys.

    I would guess this is Gzur?

    The Kh-32 is rocket based, so I would hope they don't continue down that path simply because the chemicals needed are pretty nasty, but it gets the job done I suppose.


    Well I guessed it firstly lol1  attack  just joking boss don't send me to Afbanistan it's cold there. Very Happy

    The article says it's a new missile design not derivated from kh-32... I can only think of Gzur. KTRV boss always talked about one hypersonic missile in around 2020...
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    Post  thegopnik on Mon May 11, 2020 6:53 pm

    https://breakingdefense.com/2020/04/dod-norway-partner-on-ramjets-for-navy-hypersonic-missiles/

    So GZUR is basically like the THOR-ER project a ramjet with the intention to go hypersonic. But of course Norway's assistance is needed. I like how they flash a scramjet missile like the HAWC but they feel the need to partner with Norway on a ramjet project. Norway is not that bad at propulsion technology since their JSM matches Russia's Kh-59MK2 and they have ramjet artillery shells with 60 mile claims but same for Russia having a 170km range with new shells for koalitsivya
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    Post  dino00 on Mon May 11, 2020 9:02 pm

    If it's Gzur it uses an scramjet engine, if they wanted "barely hypersonic" they had the oniks air launched version long ago.
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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Mon May 11, 2020 9:18 pm

    dino00 wrote:If it's Gzur it uses an scramjet engine, if they wanted "barely hypersonic" they had the oniks air launched version long ago.

    Your right, ramjets will get you at best speeds hovering between Mach 4.5 to 5, the only way they could be hypersonic+ is if they use something like spin detonation.

    https://www.russiadefence.net/t2758p575-russia-us-and-other-developments-in-hypersonic-research#282397
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    Post  GarryB on Tue May 12, 2020 5:27 am

    Well I guessed it firstly lol1 attack just joking boss don't send me to Afbanistan it's cold there

    You did but I started replying before you posted, so I had not read it yet.

    So GZUR is basically like the THOR-ER project a ramjet with the intention to go hypersonic.

    As far as I can tell the Gzur programme is a two step programme started in about 2010 and is an all Russian programme that starts with Gzur 1 which is a 6m long 1,500kg ramjet powered missile with a flight range of 1,500km at mach 6. The second step involves a test design that is attached to the front of a Kh-32 and is about 12 metres long with a flight speed of Mach 12. The first model was supposed to be ready by 2020... so it is right on time.

    The French MBDA were using the Tu-22M3 for testing high speed missile called LEA but that was terminated... presumably in 2014 when they stopped all sorts of cooperation... the Tu-22M3 could be used to get prototypes up to mach 1.7 at about 14km altitude.... a pretty useful altitude and speed for a large aircraft able to carry big heavy prototypes and test missiles.
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    Post  Arrow on Tue May 12, 2020 8:05 am

    Gzur is probably based on Cirkon
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    Post  GarryB on Tue May 12, 2020 2:12 pm

    Zircon is an older programme to replace Onyx/Yakhont/Brahmos.

    Gzur is a totally new programme with a totally different purpose... presumably to replace the Kh-15 Kickback, but with a similar sized but faster and much longer ranged replacement.

    With a speed of Mach 6 I am not totally sure Gzur is not a ramjet powered machine rather than scramjet...

    The Gzur II is supposed to be a mach 12 missile developed from the current missile so it might replace the ramjet with a scramjet.
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    Post  dino00 on Tue May 12, 2020 2:40 pm

    GarryB wrote:Zircon is an older programme to replace Onyx/Yakhont/Brahmos.

    Gzur is a totally new programme with a totally different purpose... presumably to replace the Kh-15 Kickback, but with a similar sized but faster and much longer ranged replacement.

    With a speed of Mach 6 I am not totally sure Gzur is not a ramjet powered machine rather than scramjet...

    The Gzur II is supposed to be a mach 12 missile developed from the current missile so it might replace the ramjet with a scramjet.

    I think Gzur is an scramjet hypersonic cruise missile, what you call Gzur ll it's probably an scramjet hypersonic cruise missile for TU-160 ME and PAK-DA, it's how I interpreted global range.

    And I believe that the difference in time between the two projects it's not that big.
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    Post  Big_Gazza on Tue May 12, 2020 3:04 pm

    Maybe they scaled up the Kh-59MK2 for longer range to take advantage of greater payload capacity of the Tu-22M over the MiG-31?
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    Post  George1 on Tue May 12, 2020 5:43 pm

    From bmpd article

      Comment by bmpd. It can be assumed that a promising operational tactical hypersonic missile was tested from a Tu-22M3 aircraft, which, according to Western sources, is being created jointly by the head company of Tactical Missile Corporation Corporation in Korolev and GosMKB Raduga in Dubna as part of the program "Hypersonic guided missile" (GZUR).

       The Western press reported that GZUR is a missile with a speed of M = 6 and a flight range of 1,500 km when flying along a high-altitude profile. The length of the rocket is 6 m, and the weight is about 1500 kg. As you can understand, the missile has mainly anti-ship assignment. The missile is equipped with the Item 70 ramjet engine developed by PJSC Soyuz TMKB in Turaevo and is equipped with a combined active-passive homing radar known as Gran-75, which is being developed by Ural Design Bureau Design JSC Detail "in Kamensk-Uralsky; the broadband passive channel (Gran-75PK) for this homing head is being created by the Central Design Bureau of Automation JSC (TsKBA) in Omsk. “Fringe-75” refers to the modification of the homing head “Fragment-K” used in the tactical anti-ship missile X-35U.

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/4022285.html

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