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    Tu-22M3: News

    dino00
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    Post  dino00 on Thu Aug 16, 2018 12:40 pm

    New bomber Tupolev-22M3M presented in Kazan

    More:
    http://tass.com/defense/1017452
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    Post  dino00 on Thu Aug 16, 2018 12:44 pm

    Russia’s upgraded strategic bomber to get hypersonic missiles

    Russia’s modernized Tu-22M3M strategic bombers will be capable of carrying Kh-32 cruise missiles

    Russia’s modernized Tu-22M3M strategic bombers will be capable of carrying Kh-32 cruise missiles, and also hypersonic weapons, Head of the Federation Council Defense Committee, former Aerospace Force Commander Viktor Bondarev said on Thursday.

    "The range of weapons that can be carried onboard will be expanded: the planes are being adapted for being furnished with modern Kh-32 [air-to-surface] precision cruise missiles and also with hypersonic missiles," the senator said.

    More:
    http://tass.com/defense/1017461



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    Post  Big_Gazza on Thu Aug 16, 2018 1:12 pm

    New bomber Tupolev-22M3M presented in Kazan


    Tu-22M3: News - Page 16 1200792

    Tu-22M3: News - Page 16 1200791

    Tu-22M3: News - Page 16 1200790

    Nice looking bird... russia
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    Post  archangelski on Thu Aug 16, 2018 1:55 pm

    Big_Gazza wrote:New bomber Tupolev-22M3M presented in Kazan
    Nice looking bird...  russia

    Without tail gun and provision for IFR probe in nose... but what are those provisional caps on front landing gear ?
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    Post  LMFS on Thu Aug 16, 2018 4:16 pm

    Inconsistent relation of updates, some say the range increased and other even that the engines are the NK-32-02. Some pictures show guys working in the cabin and it is still for four crew members... is this maskirovska or simply clueless journos at work? angry
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    Post  Hole on Thu Aug 16, 2018 5:22 pm

    I never believed the claims that the crew will be reduced to two.
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Thu Aug 16, 2018 7:36 pm

    Equipment for Tu-160M ​​will be tested at Tu-22M3M


    The commander of long-range aviation of the Russian Federation, Lieutenant-General Sergei Kobylash, said that this would allow checking new systems in the air and, if necessary, correcting shortcomings

    http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/5461563



    The State Duma revealed the characteristics of the modernized Tu-22 M3M with Artificial Intelligence

    https://tvzvezda.ru/news/opk/content/201808161421-etfz.htm








    Hole wrote:I never believed the claims that the crew will be reduced to two.

    also true that nobody yet said that places will be used by crew.

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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:22 pm

    What the reason for deleting the tailgun? Does it have something better for self defence? Or perhaps it'll always be escorted by fighters?
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    Post  LMFS on Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:06 pm

    Tsavo Lion wrote:What the reason for deleting the tailgun? Does it have something better for self defence? Or perhaps it'll always be escorted by fighters?
    Rather IMO marginal use for the weight and space consumed. The aircraft seems to have won some radome (maybe for ECM) instead.

    Main survivability strategy of the Tu-22M3M should be high speed + range + stand-off weapons. Can hardly see it using the tail gun at all.
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    Post  LMFS on Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:17 pm

    Has the plane won an IFR probe or just the provision for it? I understand it was removed in order to comply with some arms reduction treaty, so this could be a nice wake-up call for the US to start thinking seriously on what side has more to lose in a new arms race, or am I seeing too much in it? 60 Tu-22M3M with inflight refuelling, improved avionics and new weapons is a significant force to consider.

    EDIT: in the link below more than 100 units are mentioned (by Austin)
    http://militarynews.ru/story.asp?rid=1&nid=488182


    Last edited by LMFS on Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  Hole on Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:48 pm

    ECM instead of guns. It was the same for the Tu-160. The gun has a range of 2 - 3 km, even a MANPAD flies longer.
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:32 pm

    Hole wrote:ECM instead of guns. It was the same for the Tu-160. The gun has a range of 2 - 3 km, even a MANPAD flies longer.

    or better  electronic warfare to burn any incoming missile Smile like below: the whole salvo from Grad MLRS. EW complex Mercury in action:







    Tsavo Lion wrote:What the reason for deleting the tailgun? Does it have something better for self defence? Or perhaps it'll always be escorted by fighters?

    unless its a lacer or maser gun there is not really effective. This is just IIWW relic. Perhaps efficient with large slow drones not with current threats. just

    BTW it was AFAIK 2x23mm gun with v0~ 700m/s. That cannot hit anything except P-51 or Me-109 :-)
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    Post  George1 on Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:38 pm

    Why 30xTu-22M3M and not 60?
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:42 pm

    George1 wrote:Why 30xTu-22M3M and not 60?

    Because fleet considers it is a minimum for duty in keeping at bay US carrier strike groups from Russia? AFAIK Tu-22 has alwasy been mainly fleet bomber to attack CSGs Kinzhal/Kh-32 just confirm this role.
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Fri Aug 17, 2018 12:21 am

    H-6Ks & B-1Bs/-52s also don't have a tail gun.
    But I was thinking about using them against incoming A/SAMs or fighters w/o them coming for closer engagements.
    Has the plane won an IFR probe or just the provision for it?
    I'm sure they'll retain that capability, should the decision to install it be made later.
    The other related article talks about it being "a completely new plane inside" & "deep modernization of the TU-22M3" in the same breath:
    https://tvzvezda.ru/news/opk/content/201808161818-ghni.htm

    So, here u have it: deep modernization produces a new plane; with the TU-22/-22M pair, it was both outside & inside "deep modernization" with some new features/solutions that resulted in a similar, but more capable plane. The same thing was being told about the IL-476 vs. IL-76MD:
    http://www.defense-aerospace.com/articles-view/release/3/166155/ilyushin-continues-production-of-upgraded-il_76md_90a.html
    https://topwar.ru/29617-il-76md-90a-ili-izdelie-476.html
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    Post  George1 on Fri Aug 17, 2018 1:40 am

    Tu-22M3: News - Page 16 30209053758_1a0828e7fe_b

    Tu-22M3: News - Page 16 30209052918_0cbf7b9d11_b

    Tu-22M3: News - Page 16 43170764375_3434fe43bd_b

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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Fri Aug 17, 2018 3:25 am

    Tsavo Lion wrote:H-6Ks & B-1Bs/-52s also don't have a tail gun.
    But I was thinking about using them against incoming A/SAMs or fighters w/o them coming for closer engagements.  


    theoretically this might be possible but rest of bombers prove it is not effective.
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    Post  LMFS on Fri Aug 17, 2018 12:49 pm

    Apparently NK-32-02 are under test and first units are going to be delivered before the end of the year for the production of the Tu-160M2, so it wouldn't be strange not seeing them on the M3Ms... in case they are going to be used at all of course.

    https://aviation21.ru/pervye-postavki-dvigatelej-nk-32-02-dlya-raketonosca-tu-160m2-ozhidayutsya-do-konca-goda/
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    Post  ATLASCUB on Fri Aug 17, 2018 12:50 pm

    Arms control agreements are all but dead except in name.
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    Post  eehnie on Fri Aug 17, 2018 1:31 pm

    LMFS wrote:Apparently NK-32-02 are under test and first units are going to be delivered before the end of the year for the production of the Tu-160M2, so it wouldn't be strange not seeing them on the M3Ms... in case they are going to be used at all of course.

    https://aviation21.ru/pervye-postavki-dvigatelej-nk-32-02-dlya-raketonosca-tu-160m2-ozhidayutsya-do-konca-goda/

    Taking into account the production plans of the engine, the upgrade of the current fleet of Tu-160 to Tu-160 M2 with the new engines was to be done by 2020-2021, that is when the stable serial production of new units of the Tu-160M2 would begin. Since 2021, until the start of the serial production of the Tu-PAK-DA, it will be about 8-10 engines free per year, that would allow to the upgrade of 4-5 Tu-22 to Tu-22 M3M standard per year. The contract of 30 seems fine and well adapted to this prospect.

    Before 2021, the delivery of 2 or 4 units of the engine for the Tu-22 M3M prototypes would not make a big difference in the procurement of engines for the Tu-160 M2.
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    Post  GarryB on Fri Aug 17, 2018 4:40 pm

    Yes, the same way IL-86/-96, IL-76/-476/-106, SU-27/-34, & MiG-25/-31, AN-124/-225, MiG-21/J-7/-8/-8II, Lavi & J-10 "r not related"!

    What they have in common is the Tu-22.

    That was a political decision because a new jet bomber type would not have been funded so they pretended it was an upgrade.

    All the planes you listed could be compared... even an adaptation like the Su27 and Su-34 is less of a change...

    And no the difference is not just everything but the wings and the forward section... the crew compartment is different... three crew in a single file row, compared with two rows in tandem, and large pods in the wings for the wheels and swing wings...

    Similar design features by different designers & manufacturers is 1 thing, but with the same people designing & building planes in succession with similar planforms, dimensions, & functions, it's safe to classify them belonging to 1 family of Tupolev jet bombers

    Except if they are related then they would retain components and parts like engines and ejection seats... yet in this case everything is totally different so THEY ARE NOT RELATED.

    This is my granddads hammer... it has only had three new heads and four new handles... it has wifi.

    to say that they r not related is like saying that bees r not related to flies & humans r not related to apes!

    Related but all the parts are different?

    Go to a US military forum and claim the F-22 is just a warmed over MiG-25... I dare you.

    Can we at least agree that Tu-22 was pretty meh in performance & looks while Tu-22M3 is a glorious beast

    In terms of performance the Tu-22 is fairly ordinary and the Tu-22M3M is looking like what a B-1B was supposed to be...

    Some pictures show guys working in the cabin and it is still for four crew members... is this maskirovska or simply clueless journos at work?

    They might have needed more space for avionics and so put them where the two rear seats are?

    I never believed the claims that the crew will be reduced to two.

    With modern avionics systems I think a two crew setup should be possible and indeed likely...

    What the reason for deleting the tailgun? Does it have something better for self defence? Or perhaps it'll always be escorted by fighters?

    I suspect their EW systems have improved to the point where they would be more effective than a gun.

    Also there was talk of anti missile missiles called Morfei that are lock on after launch from internal weapon bays that could be directed at threatening missiles... some of which will come from the front rather than rear.

    Can hardly see it using the tail gun at all.

    The best thing about the gun in my opinion is its ability to fire bursts of chaff dipoles and flares very very rapidly so a cloud of chaff and flares could be rapidly set up in a half second burst on either side of the aircraft or behind it... clouds of chaff and flares are more convincing than strings...

    Has the plane won an IFR probe or just the provision for it? I understand it was removed in order to comply with some arms reduction treaty, so this could be a nice wake-up call for the US to start thinking seriously on what side has more to lose in a new arms race, or am I seeing too much in it?

    START I and START II were very strict on what was or what was not included... the latter limiting MIRVs and max weights of ICBMs too, but New START is weak and wishy washy... so inflight refuelling returns as an option...

    Of course for US aircraft they could be based in Europe so it really only penalised Russia/The Soviet Union.


    BTW it was AFAIK 2x23mm gun with v0~ 700m/s. That cannot hit anything except P-51 or Me-109 :-)

    Actually the gun is amazing... small, light, compact, with lightweight ammo (the 23x115mm ammo is slightly bigger than 50 cal HMG ammo, but with a much heavier HE payload).

    The muzzle velocity is very low for a cannon, but velocity is not important... shotgun pellets have a low velocity too, but are effective because they are delivered in bursts all around the point of aim.

    If an aircraft wants to shoot down another aircraft with cannon it will generally get within 500m of the target before firing... this gun would devastate any aircraft trying that...

    Why 30xTu-22M3M and not 60?

    They need to make sure it works and is worth it before committing to converting the whole fleet.

    So, here u have it: deep modernization produces a new plane; with the TU-22/-22M pair, it was both outside & inside "deep modernization" with some new features/solutions that resulted in a similar, but more capable plane. The same thing was being told about the IL-476 vs. IL-76MD:

    Rubbish. The only way to upgrade a Tu-22 to a Tu-22M is to replace everything. When they talk about the Tu-22M3M becoming a new aircraft it is like an IBM computer... you can take an ATX IBM PC from 1997 and take out the motherboard, the harddrive, and the powersupply and all the EO drives and replace them with a brand new motherboard with brand new CPU and new memory cards and new graphics card and new power supply and new solid state and disk hard drives... outside it looks the same but inside it is as good as any brand new computer with the same components.

    that would allow to the upgrade of 4-5 Tu-22 to Tu-22 M3M standard per year.

    The only aircraft being upgraded would be Tu-22M3s... even any Tu-22M2s would not be converted, let alone any previous models or the totally different Tu-22.
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    Post  eehnie on Fri Aug 17, 2018 5:16 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    that would allow to the upgrade of 4-5 Tu-22 to Tu-22 M3M standard per year.

    The only aircraft being upgraded would be Tu-22M3s... even any Tu-22M2s would not be converted, let alone any previous models or the totally different Tu-22.

    Every variant of the Tu-22 that can be upgraded to the Tu-22 M3 standard can also be upgraded to the Tu-22 M3M standard.
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    Post  LMFS on Fri Aug 17, 2018 6:14 pm

    Does anybody now many Tu-22M3 are available? Have not found consistent information about this
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    Post  Hole on Fri Aug 17, 2018 10:15 pm

    Sources differ, something between 40 and 60 in service and the same number in storage.
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Fri Aug 17, 2018 10:27 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    This is my granddads hammer... it has only had three new heads and four new handles... it has wifi.



    Tu-22M3: News - Page 16 Tumblr_nzg9r4CLV51tpkoamo2_r1_500

    talking about my grampa s warhammer Very Happy







    I suspect their EW systems have improved to the point where they would be more effective than a gun.

    Also there was talk of anti missile missiles called Morfei that are lock on after launch from internal weapon bays that could be directed at threatening missiles... some of which will come from the front rather than rear.

    So far nobody deployed self-defense missiles in bombers. I guess for a reason. My bet is on EW to burn incoming missiles. On large bomber there should be enough power supply to burn any incoming missile.





    Can hardly see it using the tail gun at all.
    BTW it was AFAIK 2x23mm gun with v0~ 700m/s. That cannot hit anything except P-51 or Me-109 :-)

    Actually the gun is amazing... small, light, compact, with lightweight ammo (the 23x115mm ammo is slightly bigger than 50 cal HMG ammo, but with a much heavier HE payload).

    The muzzle velocity is very low for a cannon, but velocity is not important... shotgun pellets have a low velocity too, but are effective because they are delivered in bursts all around the point of aim.

    If an aircraft wants to shoot down another aircraft with cannon it will generally get within 500m of the target before firing... this gun would devastate any aircraft trying that...

    [/quote]


    as long as they were Me-109 or P-51 you're right Suspect Suspect Suspect and you dotn shoot shot guns to fast moving targets. Flat trajectory is here much better option.



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