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    Tu-22M3: News

    Vladimir79
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    Post  Vladimir79 on Sat Aug 11, 2018 2:01 pm

    LMFS wrote:There is always the option of changing engines at a later phase when the current ones are done, who knows what they are planning? Modernization works never stop in Russia

    The modernisation work stops when they see the bill and revised downwards. At some point they will have to stop rejuvenating and start building new ones.
    Big_Gazza
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    Post  Big_Gazza on Sat Aug 11, 2018 2:26 pm

    Tsavo Lion wrote:Only 30 Backfires will be modernized to M3s; the TU-160 is "Blackjack". https://themoscowtimes.com/articles/bear-blackjack-and-backfire-a-look-at-the-russian-bombers-alarming-europe-45444

    Re the Tu-160:
    According to Douglas Barrie, an analyst at the International Institute for Strategic Studies in London, "less than half are likely operationally available at any one time."

    Err..  sorry but we're talking about the Tu-160, not the B-2.    tongue

    Re the Tu-95:
    The plane's old school design is a holdover from the its legacy as an upscaled knockoff of the U.S. B-29 Superfortress bomber

    Oh dear...  a swept-wing turbo-prop intercontinental bomber with a >900 km/hr max speed and 15,000 km range (first flown in 1952) is somehow a "knock-off" of a 9000 km range bomber first flown in 1943 that can't exceed 600 km/hr and only weights 1/3 as much...   Suspect

    Something tells me that the Moscow Times "experts" are confused with the Tu-4?   Very Happy

    Meh, do we expect better from the Moscow Times?  It's nothing but a foreign-owned fake-news online tabloid that caters exclusively for english-speaking expats and 5th columnist Russian liberals.
    LMFS
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    Post  LMFS on Sat Aug 11, 2018 3:47 pm

    Vladimir79 wrote:
    LMFS wrote:There is always the option of changing engines at a later phase when the current ones are done, who knows what they are planning? Modernization works never stop in Russia

    The modernisation work stops when they see the bill and revised downwards.  At some point they will have to stop rejuvenating and start building new ones.  

    I meant that after this modernization round is over, they will start working on the next one. But yes, originally they were talking about the whole fleet with updated engines, probably the bill ruined the fun. The Saker has a recent article ( http://thesaker.is/making-sense-of-a-few-rumors-about-russian-weapons-systems/ ) on the self-inflicted PR damage Russian officials keep provoking by talking too lightly about certain military plans, I think he is rather right since the military plan seems logical but the way it is disclosed is rather clumsy many times, maybe I am wrong but this seems indeed a recurring issue as we are seeing with Su-57, T-14 etc etc. Anglo-Saxon world is obsessively PR-conscious, maybe Russians are simply not paying that much attention to this issue?

    Nevertheless they are restarting the Tu-160 which is more critical as strategic weapon. As a consequence of the new development you get the Tu-22M3Ms with updated avionics which is a nice add-on.

    Is there any reference to the status of the airframes in regards of operation hours left on them? I guess they have not been working too much during the 90's and early 2000's
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    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Aug 11, 2018 4:39 pm

    ...a recurring issue as we are seeing with Su-57, T-14 etc etc. Anglo-Saxon world is obsessively PR-conscious, maybe Russians are simply not paying that much attention to this issue? ....

    It's not about being PR conscious, it's about common sense.

    You don't hire idiots to do jobs that require basic intellect.

    And when one of them does something as stupid as Borisov did he should be instantly fired.

    People here (and beyond) get upset when MSM takes a dump on Russian military hardware. Up until now it was just journalistic nonsense.

    But from now on every time they do it it will not just be nonsense, it will be claims sourced and confirmed on record by Russian officials.

    Nonsense just became facts.
    Hole
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    Post  Hole on Sat Aug 11, 2018 5:46 pm

    Yeah, and because all this russian officials are so dumb and incompetent they managed to equip their armed forces with 60%+ modern equipment in 6,5 years with less then a tenth of the money the western block spend in the same time for mostly obsolete weapons.
    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Sat Aug 11, 2018 6:32 pm

    Yes, the TU-4 evolved into TU-85 which influenced the TU-95/114/ 116/126 family:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupolev_Tu-85#Specifications_(Tu-85/1)
    The US produced its B-29 derived B-36s & its B-47 derived B-52s
    which influenced the B-707,-747 & their derivatives:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convair_B-36_Peacemaker
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_B-52_Stratofortress#Design
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_707#Variants
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_747#Variants

    The TU-16 influenced the Tu-104/124/134 family:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupolev_Tu-16
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupolev_Tu-104
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupolev_Tu-124
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupolev_Tu-134

    DC-3/LI-2 influenced the IL-12/14/18/20/22/38 family:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lisunov_Li-2
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilyushin_Il-12#Design_and_development
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IL-14
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilyushin_Il-18
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilyushin_Il-18#Variants

    DC-3 influenced the DC-4/6/7:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_DC-3
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_DC-4
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_DC-6
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_DC-7

    The AN-8 influenced the AN-10/12 & Y-8/9:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonov_An-8
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonov_An-10
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonov_An-12
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaanxi_Y-8
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaanxi_Y-9

    The Yak-25 influenced the Yak-28; Yak-38 influenced the Yak-141;
    Yak-40 influenced the Yak-42:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakovlev_Yak-25
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakovlev_Yak-28
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakovlev_Yak-141#Design_and_development
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakovlev_Yak-40
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakovlev_Yak-42

    The MiG-25 influenced the MiG-31:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikoyan_MiG-31

    The T-4 influenced the TU-144:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_T-4
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupolev_Tu-144

    The TU-22M is derived from the TU-22:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupolev_Tu-22M#Development

    Russia plans to complete Tu-22M3s modernization program by 2019
    It was reported earlier that the Russian Defense Ministry was planning to modernize about 30 aircraft of this type by 2020.
    https://www.ruaviation.com/news/2016/1/12/4597/

    Prior to 2020 it is planned to upgrade 30 Tu-22M3 with new hardware components and adapted for the extended range weapons.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupolev_Tu-22M

    According to the plans that have been announced, 30 TU-22M3s will have been modernized to meet the M3M standard by 2020. This aircraft is not classified as a heavy bomber and therefore is not covered by the New START treaty.
    https://southfront.org/upgraded-to-new-m3m-standard-tu-22-takes-to-sky-in-august/
    It's possible more will be upgraded later, time will tell!


    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Sun Aug 12, 2018 7:15 pm; edited 5 times in total (Reason for editing : add links, text)
    Vladimir79
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    Post  Vladimir79 on Sat Aug 11, 2018 6:56 pm

    Hole wrote:Yeah, and because all this russian officials are so dumb and incompetent they managed to equip their armed forces with 60%+ modern equipment in 6,5 years with less then a tenth of the money the western block spend in the same time for mostly obsolete weapons.

    What constitutes 60% modern?
    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible on Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:23 pm

    Something that can compete and go toe to toe - Su-35, Su-30, Su-34, Tu-22m3m, T-90M, T-72B3M, etc etc.

    Rather out it, Russian systems faired quite well in Syria. Now there won't be tank vs tank head ons as much anymore. It will be atgms vs tanks mostly. Or aircrafts dropping guided or unguided munitions. Jet vs jet can still happen but I doubt Russia will venture far out of it's AD systems coverages.

    Artillery forces being also very important. Not modern though besides Iskander missiles and some Tornados. Rest is not modern (Smerch, etc).
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    Post  Isos on Sun Aug 12, 2018 12:41 am

    miketheterrible wrote:Something that can compete and go toe to toe - Su-35, Su-30, Su-34, Tu-22m3m, T-90M, T-72B3M, etc etc.

    Rather out it, Russian systems faired quite well in Syria. Now there won't be tank vs tank head ons as much anymore. It will be atgms vs tanks mostly. Or aircrafts dropping guided or unguided munitions. Jet vs jet can still happen but I doubt Russia will venture far out of it's AD systems coverages.

    Artillery forces being also very important. Not modern though besides Iskander missiles and some Tornados. Rest is not modern (Smerch, etc).

    You forget cruise missile like Kalibr or more globaly UKSK launchers which is clearly a big investment from russian MoD. That's the weapon to be first used in any conflict from now. Tested it in Syria and it passed all the tests.
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    Post  GarryB on Mon Aug 13, 2018 6:36 am

    Then why re engine TU-22Ms now, if those engines have similar specs & r still good? No word of it!

    Because at the moment with, say, 60 backfires and 15 Blackjacks, they need 120 NK-25s... production and maintenance, plus 60 NK-31 engines production and maintainence, that are very similar but not interchangeable.

    They are going to have to make new NK-31s for the new Tu-160M2s they are building (if they build 50 aircraft that means at least 200 new engines... upgraded engines).

    If they want to improve performance of the Backfires they will upgrade the NK-25s... but they likely wont, because why upgrade an engine when you only need probably 60 engines for the upgraded Backfires... it makes more logical sense to alter the Tu-22M3M upgraded jets to take the NK-31 engines and just upgrade one engine and make 320 new engines for the upgraded backfires, the existing 15 blackjacks and the 50 new blackjacks...

    Instead it seems, they will just canabalise the NK-25 engines from the non upgraded Backfires and when they run out of engines retire the backfires...

    It has pure turboprops; the high speeds & fuel economy r achieved by huge contra rotating variable pitch props. Tupolev chose it as there was no jet engine then for intercontinental
    range a strategic bomber required. The M-4 bomber had 4 jet engines but didn't have the range to come back w/o refueling. Later some were modified as tankers & VM-T transports.

    I know.

    The Bear is the worlds fastest propeller driven aircraft and one of the few that actually benefits from having a swept wing.

    I'm still having issues coming to grips with the idea of Tu-22M carrying mach 4.5+ missiles since the '70s.
    Its kinda broken my idea of the balance of power over decades

    They haven't.

    They were mach 3 missiles back then. It was only in the 1990s that the Russians offered a mach 4.5 testing version of the missile using new more powerful propellents.

    The old missile did fly at 40,000m altitude to fly above USN SAMs and F-14 missiles...

    From recollection its actually only post 2000, maybe even post 2010 that Aegis has successfully demonstrated interception of Mach 3/3.5 missiles (drones based off Soviet missiles) so even though Russian sources quote a lower Mach 3.5 cruise

    Phalanx totally failed, and those mach 3 missiles were MA-31s which were based on the Kh-31 anti radiation/anti ship missile... they have not tested it against Granit.

    Of interest it took two R-33 hits to bring down a Granit in Russian testing...

    The plane's old school design is a holdover from the its legacy as an upscaled knockoff of the U.S. B-29 Superfortress bomber

    The B-29 is too slow to need swept wings.

    The amusing thing is that the backward WWII looking Bear is every bit as good as the B-52 in terms of performance, and they are much newer.

    The MiG-25 influenced the MiG-31:

    And the MiG-25 influenced the F-15 and F-22...

    The TU-22M is derived from the TU-22:

    No it wasn't.

    What constitutes 60% modern?

    Hard to say exactly, but a good rule of thumb... Russian rather than Soviet...

    Artillery forces being also very important. Not modern though besides Iskander missiles and some Tornados. Rest is not modern (Smerch, etc).

    Even a 1980s period Smerch was better than anything in service in NATO, so even without upgrade it could be considered modern...

    Perhaps a definition would be something eastern european countries would buy if they weren't such suckups to the west.

    A better definition would be something the UK or US or France would put in service if they made it...
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    Post  hoom on Mon Aug 13, 2018 9:39 am

    They haven't.

    They were mach 3 missiles back then. It was only in the 1990s that the Russians offered a mach 4.5 testing version of the missile using new more powerful propellents.

    The old missile did fly at 40,000m altitude to fly above USN SAMs and F-14 missiles...
    Yeah, I've come to the conclusion those numbers were mixing up the Kh-32 stats for Kh-22 Mad

    Kh-22 is a Mach 2.5 dive, only 380km max range so the Backfire would need to break through CAP somehow to get shots at a CVBG.

    40km altitude & Mach 4.6 terminal dive is the Kh-32 which started development way back due to that issue, got shelved for a long time due to Soviet breakup/economic woes & only restarted 2012 apparently.
    Presumably its same engine/propellant & new electrics in same airframe -> runs a mostly ballistic profile to get out 600-800km (some sources say 1000).
    Kh-32 needs the M3M upgrade, T-22M3 can't run it.


    Seems the M3M upgrade is based on older M4.
    The quoted number of 30 to be upgraded goes back into the noughties at least.
    Apparently there were 36 combat ready M3s in 2012, 115 airframes total, some articles from then specifically state 36 upgrades planned ie the whole current fleet.
    Also supposedly Kazan plant has 4 incomplete airframes so there could be a possibility of completing them to new standard if they are in good condition.

    Phalanx totally failed, and those mach 3 missiles were MA-31s which were based on the Kh-31 anti radiation/anti ship missile
    Yes thats the one!
    But I meant intercepted with Standard or ESSM not Phalanx.

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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:10 am

    And the MiG-25 influenced the F-15 and F-22...
    Indeed!

    The TU-22M is derived from the TU-22:
    No it wasn't.
    I beg to differ: Specifications (Tu-22R)
    General characteristics
    Crew: three – pilot, navigator, weapons officer
    Length: 41.60 m (136 ft 5 in)
    Wingspan: 23.17 m (76 ft 0 in)
    Height: 10.13 m (33 ft 3 in)
    Wing area: 162 m² (1,742 ft²)
    Loaded weight: 85,000 kg (187,000 lb)
    Max. takeoff weight: 92,000 kg (203,000 lb)
    Powerplant: 2 × Dobrynin RD-7M-2 turbojets
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupolev_Tu-22#Specifications_(Tu-22R)

    Specifications (Tu-22M3)
    General characteristics
    Crew: 4 (pilot, co-pilot, navigator, weapon systems officer)
    Length: 42.4 m (139 ft 4 in)
    Wingspan:
    Spread (20° sweep): 34.28 m (112 ft 6 in)
    Swept (65° sweep): 23.30 m (76 ft 6 in)
    Height: 11.05 m (36 ft 3 in)
    Wing area:
    Spread: 183.6 m² (1,976 ft²)
    Swept: 175.8 m² (1,892 ft²)
    Empty weight: 58,000 kg (128,000 lb)
    Loaded weight: 112,000 kg (246,000 lb)
    Max. takeoff weight: 124,000 kg (273,000 lb) ; 126,400 kg (278,700 lb) for rocket assisted TO
    Fuel capacity: 54,000 kg (118,800 lb) internally
    Powerplant: 2 × Kuznetsov NK-25 turbofans, 247.9 kN (55,100 lbf) each
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupolev_Tu-22M#Specifications_(Tu-22M3)

    From the above data, they have similar dimensions, only the TU-22M is larger with WGWs, different engines & their placement, heavier with more/different armament. Tu-22 cockpit:
    Tu-22M3: News - Page 15 2Q==
    Tu-22M cockpit:
    Tu-22M3: News - Page 15 9k=
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_3J9eFlXrs

    Similarly,
    the Su-17 is a Soviet variable-sweep wing fighter-bomber developed from the Sukhoi Su-7. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Su-17
    The Tu-134 has the same fuselage as the TU-124, but T-tail, 2 rear mounted uprated engines, with similar but larger overall dimensions:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupolev_Tu-134#Specifications_(Tu-134A)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupolev_Tu-124#Specifications_(Tu-124V)
    So, the planform (R.: componovka) can be changed both ways w/o any extensive redesign.
    Bottomine: w/o the TU-22, there wouldn't be the TU-22M follow on!


    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Wed Aug 15, 2018 1:11 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  GarryB on Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:07 am

    40km altitude & Mach 4.6 terminal dive is the Kh-32 which started development way back due to that issue, got shelved for a long time due to Soviet breakup/economic woes & only restarted 2012 apparently.

    No.

    40km flight altitude was for the Kh-22M and was mainly to evade both Standard and Phoenix. Mach 2.5 was the horizontal flight speed and dive speed was likely mach 3 plus.

    The Kh-32 doubled range and speed, but basically externally looks the same.

    Range for the Kh-22M was reported at between 500 and 600km and the new Kh-32 is supposed to have a range of 1,000km.

    Kh-32 needs the M3M upgrade, T-22M3 can't run it.

    No. AFAIK the Kh-32 was always intended for the Tu-22M3... the Tu-22M3M is basically fitting it with the radar and avionics of the Blackjack... the upgraded electronic warfare systems and navigation systems and communications systems means it no longer needs four crew and will get only two crew.

    In addition the internal bomb bay will be extended to allow larger weapons to be carried internally on a rotary launcher.

    Previously only the Kh-15 Kickback missile would fit in the internal bomb bay, while all the cruise missiles were too long to fit.
    The Tu-22M3M will get an extended bomb bay to allow the Kh-SD and the shortened Kh-50 cruise missiles to be carried.

    For theatre operations where the target is ISIS then a Tu-22M3 is fine with dumb bombs and the Gefest & T aiming system.

    For anti ship use against enemy carriers and landing ships the Tu-22M3M with four Kinzhal missiles would be very potent... especially if it also carries 6 Kh-50 cruise missiles internally on a rotary launcher too.

    Seems the M3M upgrade is based on older M4.
    The quoted number of 30 to be upgraded goes back into the noughties at least.
    Apparently there were 36 combat ready M3s in 2012, 115 airframes total, some articles from then specifically state 36 upgrades planned ie the whole current fleet.
    Also supposedly Kazan plant has 4 incomplete airframes so there could be a possibility of completing them to new standard if they are in good condition.

    There is going to be a gap between now and about 2030 where PAK DA production numbers wont be high enough to justify the withdraw of all Bears and Backfires and the force can just consist of Blackjacks and PAK DAs... so it would be useful to keep them going until at least the start of the 2030s...

    If they are going to get the chop however it must be questioned why they are testing the platform to carry Kinzhals...

    W/o the TU-22, there wouldn't be the TU-22M.

    Yeah.. numbers are interesting... look up the NK-25 engine and the NK-31 engine... they are pretty much the same... but they are not compatible and as Vlad has said it is not economically viable to adapt the Tu-22M3M to use NK-31 engines instead of NK-25s... so they are not the same.

    Suggesting the Tu-22 and Tu-22M are related because their designations are the same is like saying the M16 rifle and the M1 Abrams tank are related... the only difference is a 6....

    There is no relation between an M60 machine gun and an M60 tank either.

    Look at a Tu-22 and a Tu-22M...

    Tu-22M3: News - Page 15 S120010

    Tu-22M3: News - Page 15 Setwal10

    For goodness sake the Tu-22 is round and has external podded engines and three crew and the Tu-22M has flat sides and internal engines with long intakes and four crew...

    Next you will be telling me that the MiG-19 is what the MiG-25 is based on... after all they both have one pilot and two engines each... the MiG-19 has rounded fuselage sides and the MiG-25 has flat boxy sides but they are both interceptors... lets ignore that their performance is totally different too... because the Tu-22 is no where near as good as a Tu-22M in any of its versions...
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    Post  eehnie on Tue Aug 14, 2018 11:46 pm

    Tu-22M3: News - Page 15 210328

    https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=es&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Frussianplanes.net%2Fid210328&edit-text=
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Wed Aug 15, 2018 1:38 am

    As the pics above & below show, their progeny/relationship is indisputable, & it's not due to just their designations.
    Tu-22M3: News - Page 15 Tu22_2
    The earliest TU-22M0 is even more similar to the TU-22:Tu-22M3: News - Page 15 Avtu22_03

    Tu-22M3: News - Page 15 Tupolev_tu-22m_backfire
    Also, they came from the same design bureau in succession, just like with the USA's B-17/-29s & B-47/-52s.
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    Post  hoom on Wed Aug 15, 2018 4:45 am

    I think the widely established understanding is the start-point was Tu-22 but almost everything got upgraded/reworked so the end-point Tu-22M has almost nothing common -> its most logical to consider it a completely different plane.
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    Post  eehnie on Wed Aug 15, 2018 7:51 am

    Tu-22M3: News - Page 15 185042

    In the image again the Tu-22A, Tu-22M and Tu-22-M3. Good to enlarge the image to see the details.

    Awesomely "independent" designs, according to GarryB, reached to the same tail. Very casual being designs of the same bureau, that all the sources recognize as related.
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    Post  GarryB on Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:53 am

    As the pics above & below show, their progeny/relationship is indisputable, & it's not due to just their designations.

    Only to someone who does not know anything about the two designs.... one is three crew in one row and the other is four crew in two sets of side by side seating crew... the engines are totally different the location of the engines is totally different, the wings are different the fuselage shape is different... they don't even have the same ejection seats... the Tu-22 ejects the crew downwards...

    Even the tail gun is different... a single barrel for the Tu-22 and a twin barrel for the Tu-22M.

    They got a similar designation because there was no way the Soviet leadership was going to fund an aircraft for exactly the same role as the Tu-22... even though it had enormously better performance, so they gave it an M to make it appear it was related to get funding.

    In actual fact there is zero compatibility between the two aircraft types.

    THEY ARE NOT RELATED!
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    Post  Big_Gazza on Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:45 am

    Wings and forward superstructure designs reused, everything else is different. Thats the extent of it.
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:00 pm

    THEY ARE NOT RELATED!
    Yes, the same way IL-86/-96, IL-76/-476/-106, SU-27/-34, & MiG-25/-31, AN-124/-225, MiG-21/J-7/-8/-8II, Lavi & J-10 "r not related"!
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikoyan-Gurevich_MiG-21#Variants
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shenyang_J-8#Design_and_development
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IAI_Lavi
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chengdu_J-10#Development_history

    Similar design features by different designers & manufacturers is 1 thing, but with the same people designing & building planes in succession with similar planforms, dimensions, & functions, it's safe to classify them belonging to 1 family of Tupolev jet bombers, just like wolves, jackals & Tibetan Mastiffs all belong to the Canine family & lynxes, jaguars, leopards, lions & tigers all belong to the Cat family!
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    Post  JohninMK on Thu Aug 16, 2018 1:39 am

    The design progression shown in those photos match exactly what would have been produced in evidence to the Leadership when they checked (if they did) showing that this was clearly a modified design. The Tupolov design team's management could not risk just going to the end result in one step as all hell might have broken loose.

    However, down in the bowels of the building, the drawing office knew exactly what they had to do. Make a brand new aircraft that was, to the untrained eye, plausibly like the original. They succeeded, as this discussion shows.
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    Post  JohninMK on Thu Aug 16, 2018 1:54 am


    Note the snow.

    Tu-22M3: News - Page 15 DkmDrrSX0AYRbW2
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Thu Aug 16, 2018 2:24 am

    It's not just drawings, they had to test those features in the air before validating them on new variants. The TU-22M is a metamorphosis of the TU-22, plain & simple, just like the U-2 metamorphosed from the  XF-104, the Yak-25RV, etc. metamorphosed from the Yak-25, & Kfir
    metamorphosed from Mirage 5:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_U-2#Lockheed_proposal
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakovlev_Yak-25#Yak-25RV
    http://www.aviastar.org/air/russia/yak-25rv.php
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakovlev_Yak-25#See_also
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IAI_Kfir

    to say that they r not related is like saying that bees r not related to flies & humans r not related to apes!
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    Post  hoom on Thu Aug 16, 2018 4:02 am

    Can we at least agree that Tu-22 was pretty meh in performance & looks while Tu-22M3 is a glorious beast I love you



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    Post  hoom on Thu Aug 16, 2018 7:37 am

    From recollection Tu-22M were included in START/SALT as Strategic due to US insistence, I forget if there was a concession gained for it though.
    Oh it was round the other way  Embarassed
    US insisted they were Strategic, Soviets insisted they were Tactical, compromise: they had refuelling probe removed -> were not counted as Strategic in treaties.

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