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    2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #1

    nomadski
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    Post  nomadski Tue Oct 13, 2020 11:43 am

    Looks like Igla and jamming take care of drones. No need for large AAA. Sad to hear fighting not stopped yet. With Turkey escalation with importing Rats, into the fight.

    Does anyone have an accurate map of  forces positions on the ground?  I am particularly interested  in position of both sides, in relation to  Azeri and Armenian territory. Especially force concentration near Iran border.

    I think it important to defend Armenian territory from advances by Azer. Likewise Armenia should withdraw from Azeri land.

    Important to protect border crossing between Iran and Armenia. From advances by  Ottomans. To stop land link to Turkey. And insure Armenia survival.

    I think, if Ottomans try to cross border of Armenia, then Iran should send troops to stop them, at the border. Iran leadership needs to avoid political  paralysis , make decision and declare position.
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    Post  Mindstorm Tue Oct 13, 2020 1:45 pm

    RTN wrote:
    Mindstorm wrote:
    1) radar structure is absolutely not compatible with those integrated in C-300 systems even of the outdated type operative in Armenia soil (and anyway not in the are Nagorno-Karabakh area)
     This video clearly shows that Armenian S 300 were effectively targeted and destroyed

    https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1314859119363395584?s=20



    I do not see any new video RTN ,except the ones that i have already seen and found totally inconsistent.

    At this time there has been one only attempt to operate some UAV (an AN-2 modified drone and other two surveillance ones) in the area of Armenian C-300 and all three was been shot down -two just from C-300- after which not any encounter has been registered.

    Those video are recording of surveillance missions and very likely come from an Azeri exercise or just from the previosuly named night mission near Armenian airspace before the destruction of the UAV.

    medo, dino00, magnumcromagnon, x_54_u43, miketheterrible and Hole like this post

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    mnztr


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    Post  mnztr Tue Oct 13, 2020 5:43 pm

    RTN wrote:
    Tsavo Lion wrote:I doubt India will have a chance/be allowed to use all her warheads on China. Her current/future SSBNs will be shadowed & sunk by Chinese who also have BMD means. Besides, having nukes isn't a guarantee against implosion.
    Yes. I had mentioned that in my previous post too. There is no match. China has 10x nuclear warhead compared to India, plus they have a triad in place. China will annihilate India even before India can launch a few nuclear tipped missiles.

    Implosion? What are you referring to here?

    In NK too if Azerbaijan acquires nukes from Pakistan or even Turkey, Armenia too will try to acquire the same.

    This nonsense about China being able to wipe out India in a first strike is absurd. Estimates are that India has 150 nukes and China about 260. India has a range of delivery options and you can bet they have satellites and radars watching the Chinese. If there is a first strike they will definitley have time to get some off the ground and they will also disperse their weapons as tensions rise.
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    Post  kvs Tue Oct 13, 2020 6:11 pm

    It is an American delusion. These losers for some reason think that launch on warning is physically impossible. So like in the Wild Wild West
    we have the quicker draw winning the gun duel. Idiots.

    nomadski
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    Post  nomadski Tue Oct 13, 2020 6:30 pm

    "....... In the census of 2015, the population of Artsakh had a population of 145,053, consisting of 144,683 Armenians and 238 Russians, and others......."

    So if civilian in Artsakh is being attacked now by imported Automan Rats, then they are killing Armenians. Since no Azeris left there now. By this latest census. Therefore Armenian volunteers from diaspora, should be allowed to cross border from Iran, to go to location to defend it.



    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_Republic_of_Artsakh

    Also from Mashregh news site :


    Yerevan also said the information at its disposal stating that the mercenaries in attacks against the city هادروت participation had as a result their houses burned, the people killed was brutally killed, and the forces of the region has mountainous lives lost their.

    ( Hadrut City)

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadrut_(town)


    https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/1lelzj/nagornokarabakh_becoming_more_and_more_armenian/


    Hadrut is Armenian Town in Armenian territory. Making wine and Vodka...

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    Post  Tsavo Lion Tue Oct 13, 2020 7:11 pm

    Implosion? What are you referring to here?
    breaking up into several states like the USSR. India was last unified by the British, & lost Pakistan & Bangladesh after they left.
    There's absolutely no reason for big PRC-India war, unless the West drags them into it.  I hope Indians r smart enough to not let it happen. 

    Nagorno-Karabakh Says 51 More Servicemen Killed in Fighting With Azerbaijan
    2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #1 - Page 29 Blkbullet1 Iran Fears Spillover From Nagorno-Karabakh
    2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #1 - Page 29 Blkbullet1 Turkey Tells Russia That Armenia Must Leave Azeri Lands: Ministry
    2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #1 - Page 29 Blkbullet1 Kremlin Says Extremely Important for Nagorno-Karabakh Truce to Be Observed
    2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #1 - Page 29 Blkbullet1 Aliyev Says Does Not Know When Talks With Armenia to Start, but Turkey Should Be Involved
    Russia Says No Changes for Karabakh Talks After Proposal to Involve Turkey

    https://www.pravdareport.com/opinion/145129-armenia_pashinyan/

    Armenia’s vast diaspora has mobilised to help the tiny country in the battle against Azerbaijan, with volunteers from France, the US and Lebanon arriving by the planeload. In the 1990s, they were joined by Russian, Ossetian and Slavic mercenaries, while Baku was assisted by Turkish far-right group, the Grey Wolves, as well as men from Chechnya and Afghanistan.


    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Tue Oct 13, 2020 8:18 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : add a quote)
    nomadski
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    Post  nomadski Tue Oct 13, 2020 8:40 pm

    I want to reply to Azeri foreign minister spokesperson. She said Azer agreed to autonomy of Artsakh but not Independence or secessionist. She said, can you imagine, if anyone wanted separation, was granted it in the world?

    I disagree. Artsakh needs not just independence, but to be part of Armenia.  Can she imagine forcing native Amazon tribes, living in isolated community, to form a unitary state?  Or imagine forcing the German Republic, to live in isolated tribal community?

    Therefore, the world is not uniform in development and structure. The Caucases have unique geography. A crossroads of civilizations. Very diverse communities. Highly complex and heterogenous. You simply can not form larger homogenous states, in this region. It will not work.

    We have to view each enclave, as a mini--state. With own laws. Allow for free association between ethnic enclaves or mini- states. Here, there must be one rule for some, and another rule for others. A collection of mini-states or city states. That's how it will work.

    https://www.traveller.com.au/the-worlds-10-smallest-countries-h1k56o

    Hole
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    Post  Hole Tue Oct 13, 2020 9:18 pm

    All 3 (Armenia, Karabahk and Azerbaijan) should go back to Russia, become regions of the federation. Then this shit could be stopped once and for all.
    nomadski
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    Post  nomadski Tue Oct 13, 2020 9:38 pm

    Don't even think about it!  Already the Automan of  pan Turkic and  Aryans of Pan Iranian Persian Empire, and Shia of Islamic lands and Sunni of Caliphate have all claims to it..... Good luck with that..



    https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Federation-Klingon_War_(2256-57)
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    Post  PapaDragon Tue Oct 13, 2020 10:11 pm

    Hole wrote:All 3 (Armenia, Karabahk and Azerbaijan) should go back to Russia, become regions of the federation. Then this shit could be stopped once and for all.

    Good luck passing that thing on referendum in Russia...

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    Post  Sujoy Tue Oct 13, 2020 11:09 pm

    If reports of Pakistani jihadis/militias joining Azeris in large number is true, then Armenia has a tough fight on hand.

    https://eurasiantimes.com/pakistani-soldiers-fighting-along-side-azerbaijani-turkish-troops-against-armenia-armenian-reports/

    Pakistani jihadis are battle hardened, mostly drawn in from the Pakistani Army and several of them have also received training at US and UK defense institutions. Quite a few of them have fought against the USSR in Afghanistan and are also fighting against India in Kashmir.
    Tai Hai Chen
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    Post  Tai Hai Chen Tue Oct 13, 2020 11:57 pm

    Turkey flag raised in NK. Russia's southern flank is wide open when Turks retake Armenia

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    Post  Isos Wed Oct 14, 2020 12:23 am

    Azeri t-72 hit by an ATGM. It seems it survived. In such position russian tanks are very dangerous because they are small targets and the turret is very well armed.


    https://mobile.twitter.com/BabakTaghvaee1/status/1316101876182585347
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    Post  Tai Hai Chen Wed Oct 14, 2020 12:53 am

    IMO once Erdogan retakes Armenia proper Erdogan will deploy millions of Syrian terrorists from Turkey controlled northern Syria to take Chechnya, Dagestan, North Ossetia. TB2 has proven deadly to AD so Erdogan will order his slaves to build thousands of TB2 to conquer Chechnya, Dagestan, North Ossetia.
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    Post  Tai Hai Chen Wed Oct 14, 2020 1:07 am

    Erdogan will use the 3 Azeri enclaves in Armenia which had been occupied by Armenia since 1992 as excuse to invade Armenia proper. These enclaves were created by the stupid Soviets who created the most f u border in the world between Armenia and Azerbaijan.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenia%E2%80%93Azerbaijan_border
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Wed Oct 14, 2020 2:33 am

    Tai Hai Chen wrote:IMO once Erdogan retakes Armenia proper Erdogan will deploy millions of Syrian terrorists from Turkey controlled northern Syria to take Chechnya, Dagestan, North Ossetia. 
    there rn't Ms of them; Russia, Syria & Iran can use Ks of Kurds & Armenians against Turkey, & Ossetians r as warlike as their Alan ancestors. Georgia wouldn't want to get under Turks again & will join the fight.
    Russia can make Turkey's life miserable by economic sanctions & using proxies, even w/o bombing it.
    2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #1 - Page 29 _114743295_azerbaijan_armenia_nk_map_976-nc
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-54522278


    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Wed Oct 14, 2020 4:26 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : add link)

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    KoTeMoRe
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    Post  KoTeMoRe Wed Oct 14, 2020 10:51 am

    Shoigu called Hasanov and Tonyan.

    Pash is about to speak at ARM TV at 14:00.

    Shoigu has outlined a demarcation plan with Russian MC's. Salt incoming from both sides.

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    Post  JohninMK Wed Oct 14, 2020 11:27 am

    A bit different from 'rubber necking' a road accident. The view from Iran, I wonder if any bright entrepreneur is running sight seeing coaches?

    2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #1 - Page 29 EkLSLHiWsAIzHMP?format=jpg&name=small

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    Post  KoTeMoRe Wed Oct 14, 2020 12:50 pm

    Oh Wow Pash is being very open in his statements.

    Basically:

    1. AZ (Turkey) asks for 5/7 regions to be handed over.
    2. Remaining 2 to be negoatiated after handover.
    3. Russia fulfilling its duties.
    4. Loss of life and partial retreat but nothing critical.
    5. Artsakh will be reunited with Armenia.
    6. Fight will continue.


    Well...point 3/4/5 look to be connected.

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    Post  Maximmmm Wed Oct 14, 2020 1:11 pm

    KoTeMoRe wrote:Oh Wow Pash is being very open in his statements.

    Basically:

    1. AZ (Turkey) asks for 5/7 regions to be handed over.
    2. Remaining 2 to be negoatiated after handover.
    3. Russia fulfilling its duties.
    4. Loss of life and partial retreat but nothing critical.
    5. Artsakh will be reunited with Armenia.
    6. Fight will continue.


    Well...point 3/4/5 look to be connected.


    I mean handing over the previously Azeri regions is probably the best peace-deal anyway. Get a land bridge, maybe put peacekeepers there to make sure nobody fu&*s with the setup, and you're golden.
    Doubt they can actually do it though, not after Aliev was so adamant about not giving an inch.
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    Post  KoTeMoRe Wed Oct 14, 2020 2:23 pm

    Maximmmm wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:Oh Wow Pash is being very open in his statements.

    Basically:

    1. AZ (Turkey) asks for 5/7 regions to be handed over.
    2. Remaining 2 to be negoatiated after handover.
    3. Russia fulfilling its duties.
    4. Loss of life and partial retreat but nothing critical.
    5. Artsakh will be reunited with Armenia.
    6. Fight will continue.


    Well...point 3/4/5 look to be connected.


    I mean handing over the previously Azeri regions is probably the best peace-deal anyway. Get a land bridge, maybe put peacekeepers there to make sure nobody fu&*s with the setup, and you're golden.
    Doubt they can actually do it though, not after Aliev was so adamant about not giving an inch.

    Azeris are dead set of getting the whole package. Not going to work.
    Tai Hai Chen
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    Post  Tai Hai Chen Wed Oct 14, 2020 2:24 pm

    Maximmmm wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:Oh Wow Pash is being very open in his statements.

    Basically:

    1. AZ (Turkey) asks for 5/7 regions to be handed over.
    2. Remaining 2 to be negoatiated after handover.
    3. Russia fulfilling its duties.
    4. Loss of life and partial retreat but nothing critical.
    5. Artsakh will be reunited with Armenia.
    6. Fight will continue.


    Well...point 3/4/5 look to be connected.


    I mean handing over the previously Azeri regions is probably the best peace-deal anyway. Get a land bridge, maybe put peacekeepers there to make sure nobody fu&*s with the setup, and you're golden.
    Doubt they can actually do it though, not after Aliev was so adamant about not giving an inch.

    Armenia rejects territory for peace deal with Turkey. 100 years ago in 1920 Turkey invaded the newly founded Armenian state without warning. They are not falling for that again.

    https://t.me/ArmenianVendetta/5305

    Russians can kiss their peace deal good bye. If Russia will not defend Armenia from Turkey because of Putin's relationship with Erdogan, then NATO will. Biden / Harris is winning the election. Harris is senator from California, one of the states in the US that recognizes Artsakh as a sovereign state. Biden / Harris will sanction Turkey and provide billions of USD of aid and military hardware to Armenia and Armenia will join NATO for protection from Turkey. Russia can lose one of its 10 remaining allies left in the world.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_General_Assembly_Resolution_68/262
    nomadski
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    Post  nomadski Wed Oct 14, 2020 2:56 pm

    Peace plan looks good. Armenia to retreat from Azeri land. Concentrate it's defence around Artsakh with Russian and Iranian help. Does not matter if Azer recognises independence or not. Or if Azer stop war or not. Just a piece of paper.

    A land bridge connecting to Armenia essential. Around Lachin pass. Buffer zone dividing sides, and on both sides of Lachin pass, about 3 km. Out of range of small arms fire.

    Volunteers to protect Armenia and Artsakh, to be organised to defend Armenian populated areas only. Not allowed to enter occupied land. Must be observed by Russia to do this.

    Not important what ErredDoggonne says. Or does. The Russian plan implemented. Azeri  towns should not have been captured in first place. Should not have been occupied. Release immediately without condition.

    America will bait Armenia for support initially. Only later to let Turks through territory of Armenia. Crushing them. Far more important for them to strangulate Iran and Russia. Than to please Armenia

    No matter. In that case Iran will step in, and push back. But no Armenia left...........
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    Post  KoTeMoRe Wed Oct 14, 2020 5:27 pm

    nomadski wrote:Peace plan looks good. Armenia to retreat from Azeri land. Concentrate it's defence around Artsakh with Russian and Iranian help. Does not matter if Azer recognises independence or not. Or if Azer stop war or not. Just a piece of paper.

    A land bridge connecting to Armenia essential. Around Lachin pass. Buffer zone dividing sides, and on both sides of Lachin pass, about 3 km. Out of range of small arms fire.

    Volunteers to protect Armenia and Artsakh, to be organised to defend Armenian populated areas only. Not allowed to enter occupied land. Must be observed by Russia to do this.

    Not important what ErredDoggonne says. Or does. The Russian plan implemented. Azeri  towns should not have been captured in first place. Should not have been occupied. Release immediately without condition.

    America will bait Armenia for support initially. Only later to let Turks through territory of Armenia. Crushing them. Far more important for them to strangulate Iran and Russia. Than to please Armenia

    No matter. In that case Iran will step in, and push back. But no Armenia left...........

    Lachin pass agreement is suicide.

    If people want peace, then exchanges in territory have to be consented.

    All the rest is non-sense.
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    Post  JohninMK Wed Oct 14, 2020 6:18 pm

    There will be ethnic cleansing if the Turks have any say in it. Quite who will be moved in is a different issue. The advance party already there?

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