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    2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #1

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    slasher


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    Post  slasher Tue Oct 06, 2020 5:58 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:Be mad, I don't care at all.

    Good! Because I hardly think anyone here cares much for your ignorant and stupid confuffling of unrelated and completely diverse issues behind disparate events to push whatever it is you're trying to push. You insist on standing by your weak 'legal' case in spite of the facts presented which you choose to either ignore or won't accept.
    "Both Kosovo and Crimea referendums are technically illegal." Huh? I guess just you and Obama must have been there for that one!

    Can this just end now?
    SeigSoloyvov
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Tue Oct 06, 2020 6:00 pm

    Hole wrote:Khruschev broke the constitution with his act. It was illegal under the law of the time.

    Okay by all means show and quote the law you claim he violated.
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Tue Oct 06, 2020 6:03 pm

    Isos wrote:I'm not mad over you. My world isn't really impacted by a random kid from the web.

    What you don't understabd is that tge word "legal" has no reel signification since justice is never the same. It's the law of the powerfull.

    Kosovo was filled by albanians over time and then serbia bombed by nato to give them their country. Who bombed Crimea during ussr or during 2014 crisis ? No one. Two different things. Crimea as gifted by a single guy in what was a single country. That country fell apart and now there is two countries with Nazis in 1 of those two. Crimeabs had the right to vite and save their ass. They left the sinking boat.

    Aw so we are adopting US styled views.

    Very well, if you wish to go by the law of strength. I am sure, I won't see you complain if the US does something illegal since the only thing that matters if the "law of the powerful"

    If that is your view very well, but keep that view even among all then.

    If people are fine with Crimea then Kosovo should also be treated the same way but they aren't oh no because Kosovo works against their views, therefore, it's wrong but Crimea goes with those views, therefore, it's okay. Hyprocrites~

    I do not hold it against the population of Crimea, they did what they wanted to do at the end that is their choice but that doesn't change the fact from a purely legal standpoint the land is technically Ukrainian land. Just as Kosovo belongs to Serbia.


    Last edited by SeigSoloyvov on Tue Oct 06, 2020 6:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
    SeigSoloyvov
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Tue Oct 06, 2020 6:04 pm

    slasher wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:Be mad, I don't care at all.

    Good! Because I hardly think anyone here cares much for your ignorant and stupid confuffling of unrelated and completely diverse issues behind disparate events to push whatever it is you're trying to push. You insist on standing by your weak 'legal' case in spite of the facts presented which you choose to either ignore or won't accept.
    "Both Kosovo and Crimea referendums are technically illegal." Huh? I guess just you and Obama must have been there for that one!

    Can this just end now?

    Those facts are irrelevant to the case, those facts are just used by people like yourself to justify things that is all.

    Ignorance is present here yes, but it comes from those such as yourself.

    One way sided views and excuses.
    Regular
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    Post  Regular Tue Oct 06, 2020 6:15 pm

    kvs wrote:I find it funny in the way that America and its minions can be funny that they treat the borders of the Lenin, Trotsky and Stalin as sacrosanct.
    They also have their cake and eat it too by recognizing both the sanctity of such borders and the right of places like Kosovo to secede.  
    Once again, the supposedly anti-commie west supports Tito's carve up of Serbia.    

    But when it comes to America and its treatment of aboriginals neither any border (as demarcated by the treaties they signed) nor
    the people inhabiting the land matters.  

    So what we see is zero-principles opportunism from America and its minions.   If they could, they would invade Russia and exterminate
    every last Russian.   The behaviour of the yanquis and their doggies clearly indicates genocidal intent.


    No wonder US wants if not exterminate Russians, but cause them endless pain and hardship and chaos. Yelcin era wasn't enough. Their ideal Russia is the one under Mongol yoke or at the time of troubles. Subjugated and ruled by outsiders.
    Now where do the all the hate stems from? This is my opinion, but it's not a secret that Amerimutts are dogs of Zionists in their power structures. They are everywhere, from law to military complex. Zionists hate Russia because of it's natural immunity of subversion and perceived wrongdoings in the past.. They care very little that Russia saved them from Nazi onslaught and they still moan about pogroms that happened hundreds years ago.. 1000000x times smaller and done by illiterate peasants.. talking about holding grudges..
    Have anyone heard any positive thing about Russia from people like Soros and etc.?
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    Post  Isos Tue Oct 06, 2020 6:21 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    Isos wrote:I'm not mad over you. My world isn't really impacted by a random kid from the web.

    What you don't understabd is that tge word "legal" has no reel signification since justice is never the same. It's the law of the powerfull.

    Kosovo was filled by albanians over time and then serbia bombed by nato to give them their country. Who bombed Crimea during ussr or during 2014 crisis ? No one. Two different things. Crimea as gifted by a single guy in what was a single country. That country fell apart and now there is two countries with Nazis in 1 of those two. Crimeabs had the right to vite and save their ass. They left the sinking boat.

    Aw so we are adopting US styled views.

    Very well, if you wish to go by the law of strength. I am sure, I won't see you complain if the US does something illegal since the only thing that matters if the "law of the powerful"

    If that is your view very well, but keep that view even among all then.

    If people are fine with Crimea then Kosovo should also be treated the same way but they aren't oh no because Kosovo works against their views, therefore, it's wrong but Crimea goes with those views, therefore, it's okay. Hyprocrites~

    I do not hold it against the population of Crimea, they did what they wanted to do at the end that is their choice but that doesn't change the fact from a purely legal standpoint the land is technically Ukrainian land. Just as Kosovo belongs to Serbia.

    I never daid I'm ok with that. I say the reality is the law of the most powerfull. Where are weak countries as permanent UN members ?

    Kosovo and crimea doesn't belong to ukraine and serbia anymore. The fact is that law doesn't apply. It's power that applies. If kosovo was near russian border it would still be serbian. If crimea went in Bulgaria instead of russia it would still be ukrainian.

    Abd what law are you talking about ? Interbational law tht have no value ? Or USSR lax that doesn't exist anymore ?
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    Post  PapaDragon Tue Oct 06, 2020 6:31 pm

    JohninMK wrote:Not sure if true. If true someone thinks like me.

    MiddleEastWatch
    @MiddleEastWatc1
    ·
    1h
    Vice President of Azerbaijan: Armenia fired missiles at the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan power pipeline, without hitting it.

    Close but no cigar

    Ain't no participation awards in war, gotta go for the touchdown

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    Post  kvs Tue Oct 06, 2020 6:34 pm

    Regular wrote:
    kvs wrote:I find it funny in the way that America and its minions can be funny that they treat the borders of the Lenin, Trotsky and Stalin as sacrosanct.
    They also have their cake and eat it too by recognizing both the sanctity of such borders and the right of places like Kosovo to secede.  
    Once again, the supposedly anti-commie west supports Tito's carve up of Serbia.    

    But when it comes to America and its treatment of aboriginals neither any border (as demarcated by the treaties they signed) nor
    the people inhabiting the land matters.  

    So what we see is zero-principles opportunism from America and its minions.   If they could, they would invade Russia and exterminate
    every last Russian.   The behaviour of the yanquis and their doggies clearly indicates genocidal intent.


    No wonder US wants if not exterminate Russians, but cause them endless pain and hardship and chaos. Yelcin era wasn't enough. Their ideal Russia is the one under Mongol yoke or at the time of troubles. Subjugated and ruled by outsiders.
    Now where do the all the hate stems from? This is my opinion, but it's not a secret that Amerimutts are dogs of Zionists in their power structures. They are everywhere, from law to military complex. Zionists hate Russia because of it's natural immunity of subversion and perceived wrongdoings in the past.. They care very little that Russia saved them from Nazi onslaught and they still moan about pogroms that happened hundreds years ago.. 1000000x times smaller and done by illiterate peasants.. talking about holding grudges..
    Have anyone heard any positive thing about Russia from people like Soros and etc.?

    I heard at least one Canadian school teacher claim that Russians "pogromed" millions of Jews. But any research on this subject only digs up the cases
    in Odessa and the Baltics. And not even reaching 10,000. There were no mass progroms in Moscow. This millions of Jews BS is clear blood libel.
    Others repeat it too while puckering up their sphincters with self-righteous indignation. BTW, there were real pogroms in Germany and other parts of
    western Europe at the time of the Crusades where vastly more Jews died than supposedly were "pogromed" in the Russian Empire. Funny how a Russian
    word is used to tag ethnic attacks on Jews instead of some western European word.

    A good metric of the hate propaganda against Russia is how Russia treated Jews. While there is lots of moaning and wailing over
    the Pale of Settlement, there was never any ethnic cleansing like in Spain, for example. In fact, Jewish culture survived in the
    Pale of Settlement and not in western Europe where the intolerance was on a much worse level. The Pale of Settlement was not
    apartheid since Jews still became doctors, other professionals and successful businessmen. If millions of them were being slaughtered
    there would have been none left to succeed in anything. And Russia has had population migration controls into large cities for
    a long time. So the whole apartheid hell hole BS is resentment from not having unlimited migration to urban areas. Like other ethnic
    groups and Russians themselves.

    Then we have Oprah claiming that the Nazis killed 10 million Jews where she is clearly counting the roughly 4 million mostly Soviet
    POWs that were sent through the camps as well as left to die from exposure in outdoor internment on the eastern front. Auschwitz was
    built by Soviet POWs and they were sent to the ovens first.

    But at the end of WWII we had the Jew loving Americans recruiting Nazis to fight for them against the USSR. The Banderite
    Nazis that took over Ukraine in 2014 also get a pass from the PC west which purports to hate Nazis. The US and its western
    minions have zero standards and are pure opportunists. That is why NATzO is the correct tag for NATO.

    The above may sound off topic but strife around the world is being instigated by Americans. America has a very exceptional
    history in this regard and continues to export its evil today.




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    SeigSoloyvov
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Tue Oct 06, 2020 6:50 pm

    Very wall Iso, us style view it is from you.

    this is fine don't get me wrong, I will remember that, however.
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    slasher


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    Post  slasher Tue Oct 06, 2020 7:13 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:Ignorance is present here yes, but it comes from those such as yourself.

    Lol. Says the one comparing a non-existent referendum for Kosovo's secession with a real referendum for Crimea's accession to the Russian Federation.

    https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/david-morrison/obama-kosovo_b_5056207.html
    https://www.rt.com/news/obama-kosovo-russia-mistake-705/

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    Post  GarryB Tue Oct 06, 2020 9:02 pm

    NK was once Armenian and was settled by them yes however the land is considered by the world to belonging to Azeri, land changes with time. In this day and age having historical claim means nothing, That may seem cold-hearted but that's just the world works these days.

    Tell that to a Zionist Jew, and they will say that Israel exists now and we will fight to keep it that way... we are not guilty of genocide for removing the former land owners, they are guilty of attempted genocide for continuing to try to destroy this country we recently created called Israel.

    How about we say the land is currently occupied by Armenians and removing them by force is a war crime... that is the argument HATO used in Kosovo wasn't it, except in Kosovo they didn't start by bombing and shelling Albanian villages...

    The Armenians clearly saw that and learned the lesson and did not allow Azeris back... why would they, considering the lesson HATO gave to the world on western morality?

    I am sorry but the excuse the land historical belongs them to just doesn't matter in this day and age and if that is a standard people want to go by on here, then I assume they support the Russians handing over land that historically belongs to others.

    Of course... the rules apply to everyone fairly... what planet are you from?

    Nobody is handing anyone any territory... one side is trying to take land from the other side and the west is not supporting them... they are demanding a peaceful settlement... for a change...

    But I know they won't and don't simply put they are using the "It was historical Armenians" excuse to justify their desire for the land to remain in Armenian hands.

    I know.... what total bastards they are... wanting peace and things to remain as they are... whereas the peace loving democratic supporting Azeris will murder ever last Armenian to get their land back... land promised to them by some communist leader of the time to curry their favour no doubt.

    As we know in the Crimea... Kruschevs word is law... as we know in Georgia Stalins word is law.... NOT.

    Just like to me Azeri has a right to retake land that is recognized being the world as theirs and the whole "Land belonged to Armenia excuse" is meaningless.

    I think you are being a bit liberal with the word right... every country has the capacity to start a war but no one has the right...

    Azeris can start a war, but whether they win or not... or if they lose and lose more territory is another matter...

    Simply put in the 21st century having a historical claim to land no longer entitles you to it.

    I unlike you am applying the same standard to all.

    But the thing is that we are not talking about just a historical claim to land... they also occupy that piece of land too... which as any Israeli will tell you is rather more important than any claims.

    It is not perfectly logical....and you brought up what Hitler did so you really, majority of those killed by them where jews.

    Bullshit... at best the claims for those killed in concentration camps etc is estimated to be 6 million at the most... of the 5 million odd Soviet prisoners taken by the Germans only about a million survived the war and estimates of those killed on the eastern front are about 27 million.... of which about 11 million were soldiers... meaning 16 million civilians were killed by the occupiers... sounds like the majority were not jews to me...

    Azeri is not attacking NK for living space....they are attacking it because the land is considered theirs. Hitlar attacked countries that the world stage did not consider part of Germany. What the hell did they teach you in school?.

    Azeris are attacking NK for the land... which they intend to live on... why are you suggesting it is not for living space. Hitler considered living space in the east to be German... it was going to be part of greater germany... it was going to be Germanys bread basket or some such nonsense...


    Depends, they didn't seek to outright kill civis people did die but the Russians have filled plenty of body bags in Syria with innocents.

    Read a fucking book... talk about me not knowing history, women and children locked and barricaded in churches that were burned down and men taken away for slave labour. Pits dug in villages filled with dead and near dead villagers of all ages drained of blood to supply injured german soldiers with blood supplies.... no, the Germans treated the Soviets with kid gloves. They really showed how civilised Europeans are...

    And regarding Syria, those innocent civilians are living side by side with men who cut the heads off 14 year old boys and film it for cash paying Saudis to masturbate over. Men who put women from newly captured villages into big metal cages and pour petrol over them and threaten to burn them to death if they don't marry and have lots of children with ISIS fighters... yeah... I stay awake at night worrying about those innocent civilians...  BTW you claim you were fighting ISIS too so you probably killed a few of those innocent civilians living side by side with terrorists yourself.

    "they believe belongs to them is amusing" The fact you said this is amusing and frankly pathetic. The Azeri's don't believe it, they know it. Russia you know the country you are oh so in love with but won't move there even says that land belongs to Azeri, so very very pathetic those words left your mouth. A new level of ignorance congrats.

    The difference I am distinguishing is not about belief... it is about fact... both sides can believe it is theirs... the fact is that the Armenians currently occupy the land and the Azeris are using force to try to take it from them... those are the facts that matter.

    The Azeris are talking big and Turkey says it will help them, but have they taken it back yet? Is it really going to be that easy?

    If Armenia wants the land they will have to fight for it, nor am i saying they should give it up just that they are occupying the land and it's no longer theirs. I will repeat my words again.

    Duh, if they are occupying it it is theirs.

    That depends..does the world consider Georgia, Armenia and Azeri has belonging to Russia? Oh wait they don't.

    But they did.... look at histories of WWII and you will see Russia is mentioned and is used interchangeably with the Soviet Union, so back then they were all considered Russia... even today when Russian hacking allegations turn out to originate in the Ukraine it is still called Russian hacking... Russian influence...

    You are completely ignoring the fact every nation on earth literally sees that has Azeri land, technically Azeri isn't invading.

    Hahahahahahaha... so because it is technically not an invasion then all the people being killed are not actually getting killed... how reassuring to hear that.

    I don't give a fuck who you think is in the right, what is pissing me off is you claiming that some Azeris crossing a border... technical or otherwise, and murdering people and having their own people killed in the process is their right.

    They cannot invade their own land, by definition its liberation. You are just showing me how full of it you are. "Believe" it belongs to them lol.

    But they can die.

    Canadians are funny. They sold those systems for years and they were used in Syria and Libya in huge numbers but when they are not used against muslims but another people they ban the sells.

    Pretend to be good people when in reality thry are piece of shit.

    Yes, imagine a country of people who refuse to sell military products based on their interests... what total bastards....   Rolling Eyes   Twisted Evil

    Ps. I like ultimate warrior. Do not ban him. To ultimate warrior : condense posts. Into one post.

    He seems to irritate some people.

    It is up to him, and I really don't care who he is... that is not important.

    The rules are clear... if he follows them there is no reason to extend the ban or make it permanent, but it is up to him.

    And if he is reading this you are probably a bit frustrated, can I suggest when you can post again you send me a private message and we have a chat... this is just a suggestion so you will not be banned for not doing this but I think a chat would be in your interests.

    I have been on this forum now, for a few years. The mods are quite flexible with posts. Sometimes people go at a tangent, for numerous posts. Yet those posts are removed, or new topic made for them. They are not banned.

    There is no training manual for being a mod and honestly I try not to ban as much as I can, but sometimes my hand is forced, or another mod does it.

    I go off on tangents all the time, and I and lots of other members post one liner comments, but as I posted above when you post 8-10 messages in the same thread within about an hour of each other all with single line comments including single line comments with a quote showing a conversation between four other people on the thread, and you have just been told not to do that then what am I supposed to do?

    If you want a ban then ignore instructions from a mod or abuse a mod... if you don't want to get banned... listen to a mod... if they are telling you to do something and you don't understand why then send a private message and ask for further clarification.

    There are no members I really want gone, but when a large number gang up and say this guy has to go then I obviously wont ban for that, but I do have to look into why they have a problem. Being annoying is not a good reason to ban someone or you end up like the west where there is no discussion... you are with us or with them... we have to agree on everything or we cannot be friends. For goodness sake husbands and wives don't agree on everything.... fathers and sons, fathers and daughters, mothers and sons and mothers and daughters...

    When discussions turn into arguments then common sense and maturity go out the door... getting rid of everyone who doesn't agree that Putin is amazing and Russia is amazing, or people who think this or that bit of western kit is not rubbish... well that sort of forum would become rather boring rather quick.

    The irony is that most of my experience on the internet on forums has been in places like MP.net... I went for the Russian Photos thread, but spend 90% of my time correcting western ignorance regarding Russian equipment being posted and talked about... walking the minefield of not being allowed to be too anti American, because in western forums being anti western is a banning offense.

    It is a reason Vlad made this site.

    Now, back on topic, Iranian advisor to leadership, a man who was kind to me, said that Armenia should leave Azeri lands. Previously legally Azeri. But this to be done without war.

    This, I disagree with.  Armenians should only leave territory, occupied after the war, where there is no significant Armenian civilian presence. And this solution can only be imposed externally.

    And the Azeris, should only return to territory,  legally owned, before the war, with significant civilian Azeri population. And this too can only be imposed externally. By Iran / Russia.

    Where, there was a significant Azeri population, before the war, and there is now a significant Armenian population. There should be a territorial compromise. But the two peoples need to be separated.

    If they think they can take it by force they are essentially leaving themselves open to first of all losing again. And secondly even if they win that in the future the Armenians will build up their strength and just take it back by force... lots of war lots of brutal deaths, no lasting solution.

    Well while Ukraine isn't ever getting Crimea back, the then head of the Soviet leadership gave that land to Ukraine which was perfectly legal. So from a legal standpoint that land is technically Ukrainian. That's just the facts. But like I said Russia will never hand over Crimea so to expect that is foolish.

    The fact that you think Russia decides is amusing... typical western denial I guess. The people of the Crimea were given a choice for themselves and they made that choice for themselves... it was not up to Russia or the Ukraine or Kruschev to decide.

    I don't care if Russia has Crimea or not, I am simply keeping to my standard of every country is treated the same.

    Hope you were inside when you typed this... being an American... the danger of getting hit by lightning would be severe...  Razz

    I just enjoy seeing the hypocrisy from all of you, you're all fine with countries you support using the historical excuse but will foam at the mouth if ones you don't use the same excuse. Really it's priceless.

    NK is being invaded and attacked by Azeri forces, it is not hard to work out who the bad guy is.

    You don't have to like it or approve of it but it was a legal transfer of land.

    So what... the referendums the Crimea had were also legal too...


    Both Kosovo and Crimea referendums are technically illegal.

    Nothing technical about either of them.

    Kosovo was illegal because it didn't happen. Crimean referendums only became binding when the Ukraine could no longer interfere...

    Again you can whine about it all you like, fact is from a legal basis Crimea is Ukrainian land just as Kosovo legally still belongs to the Serbs.

    The land legally belongs to the Serbs because there is a UNSC resolution stating as such and there has been no legal referendum to change that.

    In the Crimea the status of the Crimean peninsula has been changed by referendum of the people, so it is now Russian.

    Vice President of Azerbaijan: Armenia fired missiles at the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan power pipeline, without hitting it.

    Sounds like a warning...

    Close but no cigar

    Ain't no participation awards in war, gotta go for the touchdown

    If it was a warning then it is about right...

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    Post  Tsavo Lion Wed Oct 07, 2020 12:26 am

    Legally Sinkiang, Tibet & Taiwan r parts of China but Turkey & the USA support Uighurs,Tibetans & Taiwanese against the CCP run PRC. The US took 1/2 of Mexico, Hawaii & Guam; helped to carve up Yugoslavia, Libya, Iraq, & Sudan; now it tries to keep Ukraine & Belarus from rejoining Russia. 
    To the Armenians everywhere, NK is their Alamo- if it falls, Erevan is next. 
    The construction of "Great Turan" begins with the battle for Karabakh
    https://www.ng.ru/armies/2020-10-06/1_7982_caucasus.html?print=Y

    Baku and Yerevan claim only military successes
    https://www.ng.ru/cis/2020-10-06/5_7982_karabakh.html?print=Y



    https://vz.ru/world/2020/10/6/1062035.html


    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Wed Oct 07, 2020 1:30 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : add links)

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    Maximmmm
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    Post  Maximmmm Wed Oct 07, 2020 3:09 am

    It seems like the conflict is freezing up, less video evidence and more bombastic bluster from both sides. The Azeris have made some decent progress in the south, question is whether there will be a counterattack.
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    Post  KoTeMoRe Wed Oct 07, 2020 4:16 am

    Maximmmm wrote:It seems like the conflict is freezing up, less video evidence and more bombastic bluster from both sides. The Azeris have made some decent progress in the south, question is whether there will be a counterattack.

    Not at all.

    DRG attack on Azeri FARP point this morning.
    MALE drone shot down this morning. Maybe the first Heron or TB-2 shot.

    This comes after Rumors of Libyan tourists in Artsakh and ANNA in Artsakh.

    However:

    Armenians (not the ARM gov per se) don't deserve this cold bitch love Russia is giving.
    Yes 2018 was a watershed moment and yes Pashinyan and his merry band were fast to backtrack on their bull.
    And it is eminently clear that Russians are rooting for ARM (except Dozhd but again Dozhd would side with the Nazis in 1941 if they could) they just don't have the clear casus belli to whoopass the AZ.

    That Casus Belli will come when the AZ would start closing in in Stepankhert. Then big MC will get involved and it would be GO.

    Personally I'd like to wish the Armenians in here fortitude and resilience. Those lands are yours guys.

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    Post  KoTeMoRe Wed Oct 07, 2020 4:26 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    d_taddei2 wrote:Anyone got any good websites for updates and maps.

    Armenia stating downing of aircraft and helicopters yet haven't seen footage or listing what type were destroyed any info?

    Only aircraft lost so far has been one Armenian Su-25



    Actually they have announced a second SU-25. But so far the only evidence they have shown is 50/50. I however believe that F-16 were in Ganja unti lthe 3rd of October/
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    Post  The Ottoman Wed Oct 07, 2020 4:27 am

    Crimea, Cyprus, Tibet, Kashmir, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Nagorno Karabach, Nahchivan, the Peloponnese islands, Palestine, Western Sahara, Ceuta, Melilla, the Falkands, Kosovo, are all twisted.
    Maximmmm
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    Post  Maximmmm Wed Oct 07, 2020 5:31 am

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Maximmmm wrote:It seems like the conflict is freezing up, less video evidence and more bombastic bluster from both sides. The Azeris have made some decent progress in the south, question is whether there will be a counterattack.

    Not at all.

    DRG attack on Azeri FARP point this morning.
    MALE drone shot down this morning. Maybe the first Heron or TB-2 shot.

    This comes after Rumors of Libyan tourists in Artsakh and ANNA in Artsakh.

    However:

    Armenians (not the ARM gov per se) don't deserve this cold bitch love Russia is giving.
    Yes 2018 was a watershed moment and yes Pashinyan and his merry band were fast to backtrack on their bull.
    And it is eminently clear that Russians are rooting for ARM (except Dozhd but again Dozhd would side with the Nazis in 1941 if they could) they just don't have the clear casus belli to whoopass the AZ.

    That Casus Belli will come when the AZ would start closing in in Stepankhert. Then big MC will get involved and it would be GO.

    Personally I'd like to wish the Armenians in here fortitude and resilience. Those lands are yours guys.

    The whole situation is honestly very difficult to judge.
    First and foremost, Armenians and frankly everybody else needs to realize that Moscow doesn't owe anyone Sh#!. We have no reason to be indebted to anybody for anything and if they want to come cry for help, they need to give us a good reason other than "we're brothers please". I don't want to see Russian soldiers dying for Armenia to then say "ok thanks, now gtfo I have a NATO conference to get to".
    Secondly, people have to realize we have both a massive Armenia and Azeri diaspora, we don't need internal ethnic conflict.
    Also, I don't like the idea of being dragged in the middle of someone else's conflict at their behest, we don't recognize NK as an independent state or as part of Armenia and for that matter even they don't recognize it as part of Armenia. Putin just came out and said again that if Armenia proper is attacked we will fulfil our obligations.
    Finally, they're both responsible for this. They had endless chances and even agreements to sort this out. Frankly the Azeris are too happy to be militant and the Armenians are far too cheeky. Yes maybe the NK deserves special status, but there's also a good chunk of Azeri territory that has been occupied since the 90s. You had a chance for a good peace settlement by giving back most of the occupied regions and keeping two semi-autonomous to maintain the land link to NK. The agreement was even signed a decade ago, and what progress was made? Nothing.
    I don't think there's an easy answer, and while I was all for invading Ukraine and finally ridding the world of that quasi-fascist post-soviet disaster, that was also different because it was Russians being killed and oppressed by a violent regime. The Armenians and Azeris wanted their own countries, so it's up to them to sort their own manure out.


    Last edited by Maximmmm on Wed Oct 07, 2020 5:33 am; edited 1 time in total

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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Wed Oct 07, 2020 5:32 am

    The Ottoman wrote:Crimea, Cyprus, Tibet, Kashmir, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Nagorno Karabach, Nahchivan, the Peloponnese islands, Palestine, Western Sahara, Ceuta, Melilla, the Falkands, Kosovo, are all twisted.
    Since we are in the provocation mood i answer in a similar way

    Ironic rant start

    A good start for solving the problems in the middle east could be to free Anatolia from turkish occupation and split it between Greece, Syria, Kurds, Iran and Armenia, maybe
    adding also a russian exclave or two...

    Possibly they could maintain a small (landlocked) turkish state around Ankara... the rest of the population could then return to central Asia (they told me Afghanistan is in the need of a new government,  by the way...) or move to Germany.

    Ironic rant end


    Last edited by Rodion_Romanovic on Wed Oct 07, 2020 5:43 am; edited 1 time in total

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    Post  Maximmmm Wed Oct 07, 2020 5:35 am

    Rodion_Romanovic wrote:
    The Ottoman wrote:Crimea, Cyprus, Tibet, Kashmir, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Nagorno Karabach, Nahchivan, the Peloponnese islands, Palestine, Western Sahara, Ceuta, Melilla, the Falkands, Kosovo, are all twisted.
    Since we are in the provocation mood i answer in a similar way

    Ironic rant start

    A good start for solving the problem in the middle east could be to free Anatolia from turkish occupation and split it between Greece, Syria, Kurds, Iran and Armenia, maybe
    adding also a russian exclave or two...

    Possibly they could maintain a small (landlocked) turkish state around Ankara... the rest of the population could then return to central Asia (they told me Afghanistan is in the need of a new government,  by the way...) or move to Germany.

    Ironic rant end

    Tsargrad soon brother Very Happy
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Wed Oct 07, 2020 5:51 am

    Maximmmm wrote:
    Rodion_Romanovic wrote:
    The Ottoman wrote:Crimea, Cyprus, Tibet, Kashmir, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Nagorno Karabach, Nahchivan, the Peloponnese islands, Palestine, Western Sahara, Ceuta, Melilla, the Falkands, Kosovo, are all twisted.
    Since we are in the provocation mood i answer in a similar way

    Ironic rant start

    A good start for solving the problem in the middle east could be to free Anatolia from turkish occupation and split it between Greece, Syria, Kurds, Iran and Armenia, maybe
    adding also a russian exclave or two...

    Possibly they could maintain a small (landlocked) turkish state around Ankara... the rest of the population could then return to central Asia (they told me Afghanistan is in the need of a new government,  by the way...) or move to Germany.

    Ironic rant end

    Tsargrad soon brother Very Happy
    Ahah, sorry but I prefer the Roman name of Costantinople or Nova Roma!

    My dream would be a joint italian/ greek federation uniting the current two countries plus a large chunk of Anatolia, Istria, Dalmatia and maybe some parts of northern Africa...

    (Of course before of that we would have to get rid all of the Italian and Greek politicians and de-brainwash most my connationals and of greek population...)
    I fear that this will not happen in my lifetime...

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    Post  Hole Wed Oct 07, 2020 6:30 am

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    Hole wrote:Khruschev broke the constitution with his act. It was illegal under the law of the time.

    Okay by all means show and quote the law you claim he violated.

    The soviet constitution which states that changes like that (giving control over a region to another republic) can only be made after a referendum has been held. Which didn´t happen.

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    Post  The Ottoman Wed Oct 07, 2020 7:35 am

    If there is no Azeri progress or succes, the why is Pashinyan crying and screaming every day and calling every worldleader 88 times per day?

    Pashinyan is today more famous than that crying emo on Youtube who once cried 'leave Britney alone!'.

    I never saw a president of any country crying and complaining like this at international level.

    Even Putin is sick of it.
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Wed Oct 07, 2020 7:51 am

    The Ottoman wrote:If there is no Azeri progress or succes, the why is Pashinyan crying and screaming every day and calling every worldleader 88 times per day?

    Pashinyan is today more famous than that crying emo on Youtube who once cried 'leave Britney alone!'.

    I never saw a president of any country crying and complaining like this at international level.

    Even Putin is sick of it.

    Well of course, for the past 2 years he was pushing a pro EU policy while trying to get as much as possible goods and money and help from Russia without offering much in return...

    Even if the situation should end up in a not negative note for Armenia, I believe that Russia will pretend a change of path and probably also change of leadership
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    Post  KoTeMoRe Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:32 am

    Maximmmm wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Maximmmm wrote:It seems like the conflict is freezing up, less video evidence and more bombastic bluster from both sides. The Azeris have made some decent progress in the south, question is whether there will be a counterattack.

    Not at all.

    DRG attack on Azeri FARP point this morning.
    MALE drone shot down this morning. Maybe the first Heron or TB-2 shot.

    This comes after Rumors of Libyan tourists in Artsakh and ANNA in Artsakh.

    However:

    Armenians (not the ARM gov per se) don't deserve this cold bitch love Russia is giving.
    Yes 2018 was a watershed moment and yes Pashinyan and his merry band were fast to backtrack on their bull.
    And it is eminently clear that Russians are rooting for ARM (except Dozhd but again Dozhd would side with the Nazis in 1941 if they could) they just don't have the clear casus belli to whoopass the AZ.

    That Casus Belli will come when the AZ would start closing in in Stepankhert. Then big MC will get involved and it would be GO.

    Personally I'd like to wish the Armenians in here fortitude and resilience. Those lands are yours guys.

    The whole situation is honestly very difficult to judge.
    First and foremost, Armenians and frankly everybody else needs to realize that Moscow doesn't owe anyone Sh#!. We have no reason to be indebted to anybody for anything and if they want to come cry for help, they need to give us a good reason other than "we're brothers please". I don't want to see Russian soldiers dying for Armenia to then say "ok thanks, now gtfo I have a NATO conference to get to".
    Secondly, people have to realize we have both a massive Armenia and Azeri diaspora, we don't need internal ethnic conflict.
    Also, I don't like the idea of being dragged in the middle of someone else's conflict at their behest, we don't recognize NK as an independent state or as part of Armenia and for that matter even they don't recognize it as part of Armenia. Putin just came out and said again that if Armenia proper is attacked we will fulfil our obligations.
    Finally, they're both responsible for this. They had endless chances and even agreements to sort this out. Frankly the Azeris are too happy to be militant and the Armenians are far too cheeky. Yes maybe the NK deserves special status, but there's also a good chunk of Azeri territory that has been occupied since the 90s. You had a chance for a good peace settlement by giving back most of the occupied regions and keeping two semi-autonomous to maintain the land link to NK. The agreement was even signed a decade ago, and what progress was made? Nothing.
    I don't think there's an easy answer, and while I was all for invading Ukraine and finally ridding the world of that quasi-fascist post-soviet disaster, that was also different because it was Russians being killed and oppressed by a violent regime. The Armenians and Azeris wanted their own countries, so it's up to them to sort their own manure out.

    Let us be a little more logical here.

    Russia is playing its cardinal card in the Lesser Caucasus. If they let Azerbaijan take over Artsakh, then Armenia can directly push for a PP with NATO. Same story as with Georgia, but with extra spice as it would give the US a direct border with Iran and render the Russian SYRIAN B-route through the Caspian all but impracticable. This means a lot of shit sanwich for everybody. Iran, Turkey and Russia. Which would have a straight up open front with Georgia over YO and ABK while having a better strategic depth. If you think this is what the Russians want to deal with, then you are seriously misunderstanding the long term consequences of an Azeri Artsakh. It's a neutering of Armenia ala Serbia. Imagine the issues Serbia has regarding Kosovo, but with Armenia. The problem is that there's not enough cash in the fucking planet to apease the Armenians if they suffer an ethnic cleansing from Artsakh. This is going to lead to evacuation of Guymri, whic his the Russian trump card in keeping both Turkey and Georgia in check.

    As for internal conflict, please man, please. That conflict exists already in Russia with a bunch of "formers" beating the shit out of eachother when they can.

    Azeri territory, not really, FFS one of the biggest Soviet crimes of the Gorby era was the supression of Nakhchevan which was cleansed under the Soviet leadership. Similarly the Artsakh situation was poorly handled by Russia mostly because its bling apoplexia over the Chechen conflict and its spillover.

    Russia is lucky Armenia has litterally nothing going for itself and that the cost of babysitting Armenia might be the biggest issue for new Western Sugar daddies, but for the US the rewards are huge. It can throat Iran, be a continuous nuisance for Russia and grow like a bad case of fungus in the region and who knows even take out Alyiev. That means a bigh puddle of shit for every one in the Caspian.

    If Russia wants to turn the Caspian from a Russian lake into a shit lake, be my guest.

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    Post  KoTeMoRe Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:35 am

    The Ottoman wrote:If there is no Azeri progress or succes, the why is Pashinyan crying and screaming every day and calling every worldleader 88 times per day?

    Pashinyan is today more famous than that crying emo on Youtube who once cried 'leave Britney alone!'.

    I never saw a president of any country crying and complaining like this at international level.

    Even Putin is sick of it.

    Because there are people dying and he's on an ejection seat.
    People are already asking about why he refused both Russian help in 2019 and refused to buy Chinese AFT-10 when the Chinese were doing tours with their toys.
    The first might have had to do with the second though.

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