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    2020 US elections. What's the status of pindostan and their 2nd civil war?

    kvs
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    Post  kvs Mon Nov 23, 2020 12:38 am

    JohninMK wrote:
    kvs wrote:
    JohninMK wrote:Without wanting to comment on the honesty of Venezuelan elections it is important to note the difference between voter and elector fraud.

    At the voter level the system had stunning security, every voter had a biometric card, unique to them and mandatory for voting. This meant that an observer like Carter would indeed see what was, and I think still is, probably the best system at poll station level there is.

    What Carter could not see was what might have happened then when the votes were counted, allocated and passed up the system to national tally computers, the elector fraud. Where it all happened out of sight inside the black box where it all had to be taken in faith. This is the part that Carter would have had to have taken what Smartmatic told him at face value. As they were an 'honest by definition' British team what they told him was naturally assumed to be fact!

    Hence Carter's praise.

    The same goes for every fucking precious western utopia including the UK.   Stalin was right on target.

    Given your knowledge on the subject in this and other posts, please tell how you think the UK election systems works as it looks like I might have it wrong.

    The Canadian system is the same. You claimed Venezuela's elections are fraudulent because "it is he who counts the ballots
    that determines the vote". Yet somehow when I and 99.9999% of the voters in Canada are not present during the counting,
    it is somehow all squeaky clean. Just like the USA. Right.

    You assert that UK vote counting is infallible. That is your religion and not a fact. There are no foreign observers during
    vote counts and just like in the USA, the composition of the tiny group of people who is doing the counting and making
    all sorts of convenient "human mistakes" cannot be asserted to be obviously unbiased.

    The first past the post system promotes fraud and gerrymandering since tight margins are involved. A party gains an electoral
    district even if does not have a majority and just needs to come out ahead of the usually other main party. The US is
    more pathological compared to Canada but it is the same underlying problem. The defenders of this stupid system where
    the Prime Minister can get an absolute majority in Parliament even though he has less than 40% of the popular vote always
    trot out Italy as some example to "prove" that proportional representation does not work. Italy is a unique pathology with
    proportional representation not being the source of their endless government flipping. Germany is a better example for
    how things should be. They have some of the seats be first past the posts, but they fill in the rest based on their fraction
    of the popular vote.

    The main difference between Venezuela and the UK is that there is no point in any fraud since all the options are compromised.
    No UK politician ever rocks the boat no matter how much lip service they pay to various issues. Trump rocked the boat and
    was removed. He should be thankful that he was assassinated like Kennedy. But who knows, maybe he will be offed after
    leaving office.

    And Merkel demonstrates that even the German system is still a kabuki theater where the leadership is always a vassal of
    the USA no matter how the people vote.


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    thegopnik
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    Post  thegopnik Mon Nov 23, 2020 4:38 am

    https://qr.ae/pNW6UP Man I got like nearly 50,000 views on this talking about how 6 of the 9 supreme court judges cant get along with Biden. All I did was make shit-post image memes of Thomas Clarence fucking Biden in the ass(pro-liberal social media platform not many upvotes because of pissed off viewers). Magnum's iranian drone story inspired me to make this article https://qr.ae/pNW69n about vulnerable aircraft carriers and boy were there a lot of pissed of responses and I nearly got 50,000 views on that as well. lol1 Its funny as hell as to how Quora's algorithm works sometimes in terms of people seeing my news feeds. Thank god I use fake names.
    kvs
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    Post  kvs Mon Nov 23, 2020 5:14 am

    thegopnik wrote:https://qr.ae/pNW6UP Man I got like nearly 50,000 views on this talking about how 6 of the 9 supreme court judges cant get along with Biden. All I did was make shit-post image memes of Thomas Clarence fucking Biden in the ass(pro-liberal social media platform not many upvotes because of pissed off viewers). Magnum's iranian drone story inspired me to make this article  https://qr.ae/pNW69n  about vulnerable aircraft carriers and boy were there a lot of pissed of responses and I nearly got 50,000 views on that as well. lol1 Its funny as hell as to how Quora's algorithm works sometimes in terms of people seeing my news feeds. Thank god I use fake names.

    The USA is fully off the rails not that partisanship has become pathological. I guess this is a morality tale about not having two party
    political regimes. It creates artificial polarization and can devolve into a civil war under the right conditions. There is no pure left and right
    so a binary standoff does not make sense.

    As for carriers. Soviet supersonic weapons already made them obsolete for any big power war. Hypersonic missiles merely drive the nails
    into the coffin harder. CWIS is not capable of intercepting supersonic missiles at sufficient rates to make them useless. The Granit had
    a salvo concept with inter-missile communication. Newer missiles are more effective.

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    SeigSoloyvov
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Mon Nov 23, 2020 5:25 am

    It's idiotic to say observers mean a vote is legit....

    KVS is completely wrong in this. International observers cannot go anywhere they wish in a country they are told where to go and for how long. The fact someone is trying to use that to claim an election is legit shows how clueless they are.

    You can easily send them to a place and tell that area "do the vote legit" while you in all other others cheat.

    Additionally, they do not have access to the black boxes or machines, they just stand there and watch.

    It is beyond easy to trick and use international observers to make something look legit....

    Hugo did cheat and he used the software to do that's the entire reason he had it made, this is documented. Only a clueless moron would argue against it because of some anti-us mindset.

    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Mon Nov 23, 2020 6:15 am

    kvs wrote:
    JohninMK wrote:
    kvs wrote:
    JohninMK wrote:Without wanting to comment on the honesty of Venezuelan elections it is important to note the difference between voter and elector fraud.

    At the voter level the system had stunning security, every voter had a biometric card, unique to them and mandatory for voting. This meant that an observer like Carter would indeed see what was, and I think still is, probably the best system at poll station level there is.

    What Carter could not see was what might have happened then when the votes were counted, allocated and passed up the system to national tally computers, the elector fraud. Where it all happened out of sight inside the black box where it all had to be taken in faith. This is the part that Carter would have had to have taken what Smartmatic told him at face value. As they were an 'honest by definition' British team what they told him was naturally assumed to be fact!

    Hence Carter's praise.
    The same goes for every fucking precious western utopia including the UK.   Stalin was right on target.
    Given your knowledge on the subject in this and other posts, please tell how you think the UK election systems works as it looks like I might have it wrong.
    The Canadian system is the same.   You claimed Venezuela's elections are fraudulent because "it is he who counts the ballots
    that determines the vote".   Yet somehow when I and 99.9999% of the voters in Canada are not present during the counting,
    it is somehow all squeaky clean.   Just like the USA.  Right.

    You assert that UK vote counting is infallible.   That is your religion and not a fact.   There are no foreign observers during
    vote counts and just like in the USA, the composition of the tiny group of people who is doing the counting and making
    all sorts of convenient "human mistakes" cannot be asserted to be obviously unbiased.  
    Think you should check out your eyes to brain links.

    Where did I claim "Venezuela's elections are fraudulent"?

    Where did I assert "UK vote counting is infallible"?

    You clearly know f all on the mechanics of our system so please shut up on it.
    kvs
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    Post  kvs Tue Nov 24, 2020 10:51 pm



    This is the sort of crap you see in failed states in Africa. One of the gang dies for whatever reason and his "bros" go
    on a rampage venting their anger.

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    PhSt
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    Post  PhSt Tue Nov 24, 2020 11:10 pm

    This is the sort of crap you see in failed states in Africa. One of the gang dies for whatever reason and his "bros" go
    on a rampage venting their anger.

    This is a good development. America needs to tear itself apart and suffer a breakup worse than the Soviet Union. I wish it happens in my lifetime attack
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    Post  GarryB Wed Nov 25, 2020 5:46 am

    Hugo did cheat and he used the software to do that's the entire reason he had it made, this is documented. Only a clueless moron would argue against it because of some anti-us mindset.

    But Hugo the dictator would need to get into power in the first place to get into a position to cheat and he would need the support of the entire infrastructure to manage it.

    Why was this information about cheating software.... MADE IN THE US BTW... revealed now... you guys could have revealed this information when you wanted to get rid of Maduro, but there has been no claim by anyone he rigged any elections as far as I am aware... the support he gets from the Venzuelan people and the Venezuelan military kinda shows both he and Chavez enjoyed the sort of popular support western dictators only dream about.

    The other question is why would a ballot manipulation programme and voting system be sold to Hugo Chavez in the first place... did they mistake him for an American stooge that was struggling because of poverty in their country getting too obvious and too hard to hide because the 1% have been too greedy and have not thrown enough crumbs to the masses to keep them happy... perhaps that is why they use them in America too.. how far away is that day for them?

    ...or was it sold to his pro US predecessors and he took advantage.

    But as we know... when he was alive Chavez was popular and probably didn't need to manipulate any votes... western dictators might benefit from such systems but populist leaders don't because they are popular and they listen to their people and try to raise the majority of their people out of poverty.

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    kvs
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    Post  kvs Wed Nov 25, 2020 6:50 am

    Massive fraud is harder than marginal fraud like in the 2020 (and other) US presidential election. The notion that some "radical"
    beats the system through fraud is simply retarded. It is the rotten Latin-American comprador regime before Chavez that would
    have pulled out every stop to cheat and stay in power.

    For some reason independent opinion polls are never talked about when it comes to Venezuela and other "bad, bad countries".
    But I recall every NATzO media outlet (CNN, CBC, BBC, ad nauseam) repeating endlessly the "fact" that most Americans thought
    that Saddam Hussein was responsible for 9/11. Yeah, so American ignorance created by the fake stream media makes Bush's
    attack on Iraq legit, but it does not matter what Venezuelans think about Guaido and Maduro. Get f*cked. (For clarity: not
    aimed at any sane members).

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    Post  AlfaT8 Wed Nov 25, 2020 10:06 am



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    Post  kvs Fri Nov 27, 2020 12:19 am

    2020 US elections. What's the status of pindostan and their 2nd civil war? - Page 10 Emouv4aW4AEc1qu-1234x615

    https://gellerreport.com/2020/11/more-fraud-dominion-voting-systems-have-functionality-to-override-and-process-blank-ballot.html/

    So we are incessantly told by the NATzO fake stream media that the US electoral process is squeaky clean and legit.
    Then why do all of their electronic ballot machines allow the deletion and creation of votes by administrators?   Even
    3rd world countries with serious voting issues recognize these immutable criteria:

    1) One person, one vote means that a ballot is a legal document.  Each ballot must be treated as unique and
    secured.   So ballot boxes are sealed after the vote and unsealed only during counting.   Ballots cannot be
    created or destroyed after voting has taken place.

    2) Counting must apply to actual ballots.

    The Dominion electronic voting machines fully violate these two criteria.   This is not a technicality.   This is
    by design.  The US electoral process has no legitimacy with such ballot stuffing and ballot burning functionality
    at its very core.    No administrator should have any ability to physically alter ballots or to generate new ones.
    Note that the voter does not have to present for this ridiculous functionality to be engaged. Voters surrender
    the ballots to the voting station and do not keep them after they vote. So there is no control of how these
    ballots are used later.

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    Post  AlfaT8 Fri Nov 27, 2020 9:47 am



    The State sent out a certian number of Mail-in Ballots, but received 700K more than they sent out. Shocked
    Talk about oversight. Razz
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    Post  kvs Fri Nov 27, 2020 11:30 pm



    This is how elections in the "free" west are manipulated in addition to the 3rd world style ballot fraud.   Via opinion polls.
    This is a routine trick in Canada where two weeks before the election there is some magical shift in support that then
    snowballs into an election win for the lucky party.    The key detail is that this is not strongly tied to any particular event
    such the revelation that the losing party kills babies or some other shock that would pull the herd in another direction.
    This trick is leveraging the natural herding instincts of humans: people vote more for the apparently popular party.

    If you think I am wearing a tinfoil hat, the Canadian media itself proves my point.   They interviewed some welfare
    single mother back during the middle 1990s in Ontario who voted for Mike Harris because he was the one most
    talked up.   That is, the media was giving voters the signal that Mike Harris was the popular choice.   The context is
    that Mike Harris was a neocon right wing zealot who cut welfare to the bone and pursued the usual blame the victim
    policies that would not have any natural support from single mothers on welfare.   So we had the MSM literally
    herding the provincial voters.   The neocon right from Ontario later went on to dominate the federal level under
    Stephen Harper in 2006.   We had the same loons who should have disappeared politically for being grossly incompetent
    during the 1990s taking power at the national level.  

    BTW, even a 6% error in favour of a party or candidate in opinion polls indicates manipulation or faking of the polling
    responses.   There are well established margins of errors on polling data with sufficient numbers of participants.
    And there is no point in asking fewer people for what they think if you care about actually conducting a proper
    opinion poll:

    2020 US elections. What's the status of pindostan and their 2nd civil war? - Page 10 1024px-Marginoferror95

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    Post  AlfaT8 Sun Nov 29, 2020 7:28 am

    Michigan still in play, apparently a Voter turnout rate of 781% makes sense somehow. Razz
    The F happened here? No

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    Rodion_Romanovic
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Sun Nov 29, 2020 4:42 pm

    kvs wrote:

    This is how elections in the "free" west are manipulated in addition to the 3rd world style ballot fraud.   Via opinion polls.
    This is a routine trick in Canada where two weeks before the election there is some magical shift in support that then
    snowballs into an election win for the lucky party.    The key detail is that this is not strongly tied to any particular event
    such the revelation that the losing party kills babies or some other shock that would pull the herd in another direction.
    This trick is leveraging the natural herding instincts of humans: people vote more for the apparently popular party.

    If you think I am wearing a tinfoil hat, the Canadian media itself proves my point.   They interviewed some welfare
    single mother back during the middle 1990s in Ontario who voted for Mike Harris because he was the one most
    talked up.   That is, the media was giving voters the signal that Mike Harris was the popular choice.   The context is
    that Mike Harris was a neocon right wing zealot who cut welfare to the bone and pursued the usual blame the victim
    policies that would not have any natural support from single mothers on welfare.   So we had the MSM literally
    herding the provincial voters.   The neocon right from Ontario later went on to dominate the federal level under
    Stephen Harper in 2006.   We had the same loons who should have disappeared politically for being grossly incompetent
    during the 1990s taking power at the national level.  

    BTW, even a 6% error in favour of a party or candidate in opinion polls indicates manipulation or faking of the polling
    responses.   There are well established margins of errors on polling data with sufficient numbers of participants.
    And there is no point in asking fewer people for what they think if you care about actually conducting a proper
    opinion poll:

    2020 US elections. What's the status of pindostan and their 2nd civil war? - Page 10 1024px-Marginoferror95


    Well maybe universal suffrage is not the answer to lack of democracy. Democracy should mean that the people voting should actually care and are actively involved in the political process. Maybe it can only work on a small city state.

    Anyway the difficulty would be to establish were to draw the line. Now it is easy. You are 18 you can vote. Maybe it could be, you finished are working (or you are raising a couple of children), you are properly trained in your profession and you know at least the basis of how the political system in your country works (e.g. constitution, how the power is divided between parliament, president, courts, how a new law can be written and approved, etc) and you show that you can actually understand and summarise a text or a speech in your own mother tongue.. and only then you can vote.

    I also do not think that subsidising without checks is a solution. It is one thing to provide some sort of children support (but then it should be for every citizen of the country, independently by the income), and that in case you lose your job you can have some contributions for a couple or months until you organize yourself, but if it becomes permanent it defeats the purpose.


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    LMFS
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    Post  LMFS Sun Nov 29, 2020 5:13 pm

    Rodion_Romanovic wrote:Well maybe universal suffrage is not the answer to lack of democracy. Democracy should mean that the people voting should actually care and are actively involved in the political process.  Maybe it can only work on a small city state.

    Anyway the difficulty would be to establish were to draw the line. Now it is easy. You are 18 you can vote.  Maybe it could be, you finished are working (or you are raising a couple of children), you are properly trained in your profession and you know at least the basis of how the political system in your country works (e.g. constitution, how the power is divided between parliament,  president, courts, how a new law can be written and approved, etc) and you show that you can actually understand and  summarise a text or a speech in your own mother tongue.. and only then you can vote.

    I also do not think that subsidising without checks is a solution. It is one thing to provide some sort of children support (but then it should be for every citizen of the country, independently by the income), and that in case you lose your job you can have some contributions for a couple or months until you organize yourself, but if it becomes permanent it defeats the purpose.

    Democrazy as we imagine it has never existed at the state level and is not going to exist any time soon, in fact persons in the productive sectors of the society do not even normally understand how the world works nor them as a group have the internal organization needed for decision making. So you don't have "democratic" and undemocratic countries, you have sovereign states in which the government needs the country to actually work and develop, and therefore needs to consider the actual interests of their constituency, and you have vassal states where population is milked like cows in a farm for the interests of local compradors and their foreign patrons. Everywhere elites rule, I have not yet seen a single exception to this norm and actually it would not make sense from the point of view of civilizational logic. We in the West in without exception in vassal states, hence our instinctive rejection of state power, BTW.

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    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Sun Nov 29, 2020 8:54 pm

    If you are curious as to the Trump campaign's strategy, the video in this link, run initially in 2016 by CNN, could give you a pretty clear pointer. Note that it doesn't rely on proving fraud in the computers and that they do not have to prove anything 'beyond reasonable doubt' as this is a civil case.

    Naturally the reissuing, not by CNN, of it is causing consternation in certain circles even tho' the MSM has ignored it.

    If it is the plan, then to date they are on target and on time.

    https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/watch-cnn-admits-there-are-legal-constitutional-ways-trump-stay-office


    In the meantime, if confirmed, Biden will be the most successful politician in US history. If not will he become known not as the President Elect but as the President Reject?


    kvs
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    Post  kvs Mon Nov 30, 2020 3:56 am

    Sparta is actually a relevant example for this discussion. It had a very specific set of cultural values that were not enforced by
    a tyrant but by the society itself. That it was a very stratified hierarchy and not a model system is not why I bring it up. It
    demonstrates that certain values can be rooted as cultural norms. So democracy could theoretically use a similar cultural
    backbone to rectify or at least greatly reduce the problem of apathy and ignorance. If you do not get an education that includes
    awareness of limitations of dogmas, this includes learning philosophy (Jordan Peterson) and other civics courses of substance which
    automatically excludes BS like gender studies and PC Tortskyist nonsense. It also means that STEM students will need to expand
    their horizons since being a good physicist, chemist or mathematician does not mean you understand society and politics.

    It also means the removal of social media echo-chamber circle jerk cults. Any cancel culture and NPC diarrhea needs to be
    treated as criminal behaviour by society.

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    Post  AlfaT8 Mon Nov 30, 2020 10:51 pm

    kvs wrote:Sparta is actually a relevant example for this discussion.   It had a very specific set of cultural values that were not enforced by
    a tyrant but by the society itself.   That it was a very stratified hierarchy and not a model system is not why I bring it up.  It
    demonstrates that certain values can be rooted as cultural norms.    So democracy could theoretically use a similar cultural
    backbone to rectify or at least greatly reduce the problem of apathy and ignorance.   If you do not get an education that includes
    awareness of limitations of dogmas, this includes learning philosophy (Jordan Peterson) and other civics courses of substance which
    automatically excludes BS like gender studies and PC Tortskyist nonsense.   It also means that STEM students will need to expand
    their horizons since being a good physicist, chemist or mathematician does not mean you understand society and politics.  

    It also means the removal of social media echo-chamber circle jerk cults.   Any cancel culture and NPC diarrhea needs to be
    treated as criminal behaviour by society.  

    1 problem with this.
    In a democracy, People Vote, and they vote for certain interests, these interests lead to laws, and these laws change the Culture.
    Leading to our current situation.

    America has it better thanks to their constitution, creating certain legal boundaries, which maintains the culture to an extent, but even with this, it can only slowdown the nations fall.
    You can talk values all day, but if the laws don't enforce them, then your sh%t outta luck.

    At that point you need to seize power and create your own "No Go Zone" with numerous people that are well armed.
    Sadly, this is where we hit a brick wall, because of 3 problems.
    1) In the case of the people on the Right, they are too focused on seizing the government itself, believing far too much in their "Silent Majority" advantage, that they don't have a plan B or C, like "No Go Zones".
    2) Anti-Discrimination laws, sounds good doesn't it, but these laws literally prevent people from creating their society with "specific set of cultural values", the only exceptions are if you are living somewhere for the Rich and Wealthy or specific religious reasons, like the Amish.
    The Rich don't really have much cultural values, they just live somewhere the plebs can't get in, and most people don't wanna be Amish.
    3) The Centrists, in my opinion the most destructive force of the 3 political bands, since they are so hell bent on everyone living together, these are the fools the believe everything is negotiable, they are the reason why there can never be a goddamn Red-line, they are the useful idiots that those who wish the pervert the nation use to make their change happen, all in the name of "Progress".
    Goddamn idiots.

    Anyway, that's my 2cents on the issue, there's also Women being the other major driving force to pervert the nation, since they vote a certain way, but no one wants to hear about that anymore.


    Last edited by AlfaT8 on Tue Dec 01, 2020 12:05 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  kvs Mon Nov 30, 2020 11:55 pm

    You make good points. Current societies are too far gone to save. But a theoretical fresh start could be based on a certain
    set of values. This would then enable sane laws and those laws would be accepted. Trying to force sane laws at the present
    time is impossible without strife. And by laws I mean ones that are not flipped around every 4 years by political opportunists.

    At the end of the day real democracy does not develop since the sheeple are inadequate. Humans are not evolved enough to
    have it. You see the same pathologies in government and society around the world. And the propaganda about freedom
    and democracy is 1) diversion and 2) amplifies small differences into chasms.

    Hole
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    Post  Hole Tue Dec 01, 2020 3:19 am

    Jen Psaki is back! pwnd
    Can´t wait for the first press briefing. lol!
    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Tue Dec 01, 2020 4:31 am

    Hole wrote:Jen Psaki is back! pwnd
    Can´t wait for the first press briefing. lol!
    Who can forget her lovely geographical knowledge, like claiming the U.S. will close the naval borders of Belarus. Wink
    AlfaT8
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    Post  AlfaT8 Tue Dec 01, 2020 7:09 am

    kvs wrote:You make good points.   Current societies are too far gone to save.   But a theoretical fresh start could be based on a certain
    set of values.   This would then enable sane laws and those laws would be accepted.   Trying to force sane laws at the present
    time is impossible without strife.   And by laws I mean ones that are not flipped around every 4 years by political opportunists.

    At the end of the day real democracy does not develop since the sheeple are inadequate.   Humans are not evolved enough to
    have it.   You see the same pathologies in government and society around the world.   And the propaganda about freedom
    and democracy is 1) diversion and 2) amplifies small differences into chasms.

    Sadly such "Fresh Starts" are impossible without Balkanization, aka peaceful separation.
    The Right wing entities that are suppose to be preparing for this, are going to be caught with their pants down, and will simply be systematically purged when the time comes.

    I am of the opinion that Democracy itself is the problem, yes it has a lot to do with the Sheeple, but at the end of the day it just majority rule.
    And what happens when the minority have no power, well that's where conflicts arise, and political instability happens, or as you put it, The Chasms.
    I honestly see Democracy as just an early U.S foreign policy plan to break up French and British power back in the day and still in use to this day.
    Universal Suffrage is more of the main problem.
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    Post  calripson Tue Dec 01, 2020 10:56 am

    It was surprising to most political analysts that Trump lost Georgia and almost lost North Carolina. The South was a linchpin of Republican dominance starting with Nixon's Southern Strategy. Virginia, another former Republican southern state, has already gone Democratic. It is no secret that the most significant predictor of American's political loyalties are race or ethnicity and religious beliefs. I was shocked when I researched Georgia's demographics to discover that Georgia is currently 53% non-Hispanic white. Texas - the heart and soul of Republican national political power - is 52% non-Hispanic white. Trump won Texas by only 4%. What this means is the Republican Party in its current form is finished. Trump was the last gasp of nativist "white" America. Those people have been displaced as the majority population and will be increasingly deprived of both political and economic power. Since the fiction of democracy in America requires a two party "choice", I predict a new centrist party will arise out of moderate Democrats and the remnants of the Republican Party to be opposed by the new "progressive" Democrats of the AOC variety. In any event, the political table has been inexorably shifted.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Tue Dec 01, 2020 4:46 pm

    In a democracy, People Vote, and they vote for certain interests, these interests lead to laws, and these laws change the Culture.
    Leading to our current situation.

    I don't think there is any link between votes and laws....

    Trump got voted in because he promised to bring US troops home and for better relations with Russia and he did bugger all of either to be totally honest.

    Laws are developed by groups of lawmakers that usually have consultants in the business world.... particularly businesses that contributed to the coffers of the in power parties... but with only two parties how hard is it to bribe... sorry contribute to both parties so with any laws regarding the financial system then you need to consult with the experts on wall street who will help guide laws that suit their way of doing things best so the rich keep getting richer and competition doesn't have a chance... for the millions of dollars in bribes and campaign contributions they earn billions of dollars screwing their competitors with the new laws they put through.

    The politicians don't understand what they are voting for.

    US law says to call a product sugar free it needs to have less than one teaspoon of sugar in each serving. That means the maker of lollies (I think Americans call it candy) can say a single serving for tic tacs is one tic tac... which is physically too small to fit a tea spoon of anything into so Tic Tacs are labelled sugar free, despite the incredients listed on the side of the packet show sugar first and sucrose second.

    The US laws should protect the consumer but they were written by the food producers... no wonder Americans are fat... their sugar free mint lollies are pure sugar...

    US lawyers have the job of getting their client out of any responsibility for anything they might or might not have done.

    The health system is enormously expensive only a few can afford it and their insurance companies will try anything and everything to get out of paying up when you need it...

    Their law making system is broken, their healthcare system is broken, their judicial system is broken... running a jail is big business in the US because there is no minimum wage for prisoners, so they can be making all sorts of stuff for a dollar a day... most of them would probably do it to avoid the boredom of sitting in a cell 23 hours a day...

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