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    Azerbaijan vs Armenia [Nagorno-Karabakh conflict] #2

    kvs
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    Post  kvs on Mon Oct 05, 2020 7:00 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:Well, seeing as a huge portion of land Russia obtained are from countries/civilizations that don't really exist anymore, can't say it's a fair comparison.

    But the fact it's land that under UN isn't recognized as Armenian and Russia agreed to that, kinda puts things into perspective for Armenians.  No one will help them in that land but they themselves.

    My only guess will be Russia providing Armenia with weapons like how Turkey does for Azerbaijan.  That's about it

    SS is just spreading his serial anti-Russian BS. America is built on stolen aboriginal land. In Russia indigenous ethnic groups were never herded into reservation
    ghettos and robbed of their land. In fact, they have de facto republics such as Sakha. In principle, they can secede which none of the original peoples of
    North America both in the USA and Canada can do. The US is leveraging this to try to partition Russia. Real wiseguys, mafia style.

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    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible on Mon Oct 05, 2020 7:03 pm

    Thing is, these natives are rather a minority. Count ethnic Russians vs others and you will find, excluding the north caucuses areas, the rest are majority Russian.
    Isos
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    Post  Isos on Mon Oct 05, 2020 7:06 pm

    In Russia indigenous ethnic groups were never herded into reservation
    ghettos and robbed of their land.

    In the US they don't even exist anymore. Hardly ebough of them to create a ghetto let alone ask for a country. Only Hawai could do so.
    kvs
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    Post  kvs on Mon Oct 05, 2020 7:08 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:Thing is, these natives are rather a minority. Count ethnic Russians vs others and you will find, excluding the north caucuses areas, the rest are majority Russian.

    They are minority thanks to European diseases and the fact that they were physically exterminated by the US army and all the irregulars settling down in the "wild frontier".
    It is popular to demonize US aboriginals for taking scalps of poor little settlers, but the fact is that those settlers would kill aboriginals much like they would
    kill coyotes and other unwanted animals.

    The US signed many treaties with the indigenous peoples and then tore them all up. So there was plenty of ethnic cleansing and driving onto reservation ghettos.
    Population density is not an argument since European squatters in the new world were a minority originally.

    kvs
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    Post  kvs on Mon Oct 05, 2020 7:12 pm

    Isos wrote:
    In Russia indigenous ethnic groups were never herded into reservation
    ghettos and robbed of their land.

    In the US they don't even exist anymore. Hardly ebough of them to create a ghetto let alone ask for a country. Only Hawai could do so.

    That's just your worthless opinion. It is a post factum justification attempt for the genocide of aboriginal peoples.

    Today aboriginals account for 1.6% of the total population of the USA.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_Americans_in_the_United_States

    In Montana over 9% are aboriginals.

    BTW, black people account for 13.4% of the US population. I don't hear you or similar clowns dismiss them as of no importance.

    Isos
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    Post  Isos on Mon Oct 05, 2020 7:16 pm

    kvs wrote:
    Isos wrote:
    In Russia indigenous ethnic groups were never herded into reservation
    ghettos and robbed of their land.

    In the US they don't even exist anymore. Hardly ebough of them to create a ghetto let alone ask for a country. Only Hawai could do so.

    That's just your worthless opinion.   It is a post factum justification attempt for the genocide of aboriginal peoples.

    Today aboriginals account for 1.6% of the total population of the USA.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_Americans_in_the_United_States

    In Montana over 9% are aboriginals.  

    BTW, black people account for 13.4% of the US population.   I don't hear you or similar clowns dismiss them as of no importance.


    That's what I'm saying. They genocided all of them long time ago.
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Mon Oct 05, 2020 7:17 pm

    Azerbaijan asked not to let Armenians into Armenia
    https://www.vesti.ru/article/2467381

    https://eurasianet.org/perspectives-new-armenian-azerbaijani-war-forces-russia-to-make-tough-choices

    Azeris Say Armenia Hits Outside Conflict Zone
     
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    Azerbaijan vs Armenia [Nagorno-Karabakh conflict] #2 - Page 3 Blkbullet1 'Pakistan Army Not Fighting Alongside Azerbaijani Troops Against Armenia'
    https://armenianweekly.com/2020/07/23/we-build-they-destroy/

    https://youtu.be/UxddltpX8ls?t=302

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W79hmgBNUHA

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FE1BDGTv6Q


    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Mon Oct 05, 2020 7:51 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : add link)
    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible on Mon Oct 05, 2020 7:20 pm

    kvs wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:Thing is, these natives are rather a minority. Count ethnic Russians vs others and you will find, excluding the north caucuses areas, the rest are majority Russian.

    They are minority thanks to European diseases and the fact that they were physically exterminated by the US army and all the irregulars settling down in the "wild frontier".
    It is popular to demonize US aboriginals for taking scalps of poor little settlers, but the fact is that those settlers would kill aboriginals much like they would
    kill coyotes and other unwanted animals.  

    The US signed many treaties with the indigenous peoples and then tore them all up.   So there was plenty of ethnic cleansing and driving onto reservation ghettos.  
    Population density is not an argument since European squatters in the new world were a minority originally.


    I'm talking about Russia's other regions. Not north america.
    lyle6
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    Post  lyle6 on Mon Oct 05, 2020 7:23 pm

    https://twitter.com/ShStepanyan/status/1313164016580210688
    Armenians employed that one weird trick. Azeris left seething and 200 men fewer in number.
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    Post  Tai Hai Chen on Mon Oct 05, 2020 7:52 pm

    Turkic war crimes knows no bound.

    https://twitter.com/JulianRoepcke/status/1313134737393938432

    If I were Putin I'd be getting worried. Armenia is 1 of 10 allies Russia has left in the world. If Armenia falls, they will come for Russia next.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_General_Assembly_Resolution_68/262
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    Post  Tai Hai Chen on Mon Oct 05, 2020 7:55 pm

    Meanwhile, ANNA news arrived to NK from Syria. Hopefully we will see good footage soon.

    https://twitter.com/200_zoka/status/1313173548178067456
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    Post  flamming_python on Mon Oct 05, 2020 7:56 pm

    Armenian wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    Armenian wrote:
    Isos wrote:Armenia never asked for russian help.

    Nikol called Putin 3 times. Do you think he called to ask how is the weather is in Moscow?

    Of course he asked for help and now we can guess the answer. The reason of not officially asking help is pure political to show the enemy that we have cards.

    That is an occupied region, if Armenia is so worried about a genocide they can move people into Armenia.

    Moscow has made it clear they will not help Armenia over land even they consider occupied.

    By your logic Crimea is occupied as well? No, its people living in their historical lands and everybody here knows it.

    Thinking that it's about Karabakh is extremely naive. It's about wiping out all Armenians from the region to create Turkic empire. We all know Erdoğan and we all know what he wants.

    Azerbaijan vs Armenia [Nagorno-Karabakh conflict] #2 - Page 3 Fb_img10

    Wagner is already on their way to Armenia, if not already landed

    ANNA News has already landed. That's a tell-tale sign

    This afternoon there were meetings between a visiting Russian delegation and the former president of Armenia

    So no, there will be no abandonment of Armenia, just because Pashinyan was courting the EU a bit, closing Russian language schools or what not. None of that actually matters next to strategic security interests (but for sure Russia will iron out a guarantee that this will be reversed).
    All this defeatism is the same as when people were speculating that Russia will abandon Syria because OMFG gas, oil deals with Turkey, Turkey so much more important.

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:Well, seeing as a huge portion of land Russia obtained are from countries/civilizations that don't really exist anymore, can't say it's a fair comparison.

    But the fact it's land that under UN isn't recognized as Armenian and Russia agreed to that, kinda puts things into perspective for Armenians.  No one will help them in that land but they themselves.

    My only guess will be Russia providing Armenia with weapons like how Turkey does for Azerbaijan.  That's about it

    Japan exists, China exists, Germany exists etc, a lot of the areas I speak of the respective countries do exist.

    So it's quite a fair comparison.

    Why yes but that doesn't matter that Russia nor the UN see it has Azeri land, the standard is "Historical" it belongs to Armenia there-fore its Armenian land. So I assume for people going with that logic, they will apply the same logic to all is my point.

    There are no more Germans in Kaliningrad, no more Ainu on south Sakhalin and the Kurils (the Japs took them all with them), and no more Manchu in the Vladivostok and Khabarovsk regions.

    In regards to the first two these changes were the result of WW2, in the case of the later it was good old fashioned Russian imperialism but regardless the Manchu dynasty doesn't rule China anymore and in fact barely exist as a people nowadays.

    Armenia is a tiny country that is about 1/5th of the size it once was and suffered a genocide a century ago, I don't think there's in the mood for being removed from yet another region where they've lived in for centuries if not longer.

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    Post  Tai Hai Chen on Mon Oct 05, 2020 8:04 pm

    Armenian army advantage over Azeri army is counter battery radars. Whereas Azeri army lacks counter battery radar, Armenian army recently bought 4 counter battery radars from Armenian ally India. However, like the recently bought Su-30SM jets, they are not yet operational.

    https://www.businesstoday.in/current/economy-politics/india-pips-russia-poland-to-secure--40-million-defence-deal-to-armenia/story/397235.html
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Mon Oct 05, 2020 8:50 pm

    kvs wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:Well, seeing as a huge portion of land Russia obtained are from countries/civilizations that don't really exist anymore, can't say it's a fair comparison.

    But the fact it's land that under UN isn't recognized as Armenian and Russia agreed to that, kinda puts things into perspective for Armenians.  No one will help them in that land but they themselves.

    My only guess will be Russia providing Armenia with weapons like how Turkey does for Azerbaijan.  That's about it

    SS is just spreading his serial anti-Russian BS.   America is built on stolen aboriginal land.   In Russia indigenous ethnic groups were never herded into reservation
    ghettos and robbed of their land.   In fact, they have de facto republics such as Sakha.   In principle, they can secede which none of the original peoples of
    North America both in the USA and Canada can do.   The US is leveraging this to try to partition Russia.   Real wiseguys, mafia style.


    Typical KVS completely ignores the point to go on some Anti-American rant.

    My point was simple so very very simple a child can understand this.

    If you are going to sit there and claim a country has rights to another countries land on the basis that land once was a part of them and therefore it belongs to the country then that same standard.

    Applies to Russia has well, so if you are going to sit there and use that excuse, then the Russians should give the land they have that historical belongs to other nations. You will notice, I never said the Russians have to or should. I am simply pointing out the dumb ass standard some people here seem to be going with.

    Also Russia would never ever allow any republic to secede from the Federation and people here would cry bloody murder here, if one ever wanted to.

    Applying a standard one way and not both ways only makes you a hypocrite and shows you don't care about the rights of people if that will doesn't align to your personal views.

    if having the same standard applying to all makes me Anti-Russian there is something wrong with your head.
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    Post  Tai Hai Chen on Mon Oct 05, 2020 9:49 pm

    Armenian ATGM hit Azeri tank

    https://twitter.com/200_zoka/status/1313201247621648386
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    Post  nero on Mon Oct 05, 2020 9:58 pm

    Russia's latest actions in Syria, Libya and Armenia are very lackluster and do not inspire good confidence in their ability to do much at all, except to form meaningless ceasefires that will be broken at the convenience of the enemy.

    I understand that reality is often much more complicated than that, though for Turkey the reality is that the Russians have done exactly fuck all in these countries to deter Turkish aggression. The results of which we can see today in Armenia.

    In addition to this, Turkey has sent over 15 convoys to Idlib in the last few days - with increased rebel activity it is quite likely that they are going to open up a new front here and attack the Syrian Arab Army, possibly to push them back from the M5 highway.

    The clock is ticking and the opportunity for actual determent of Turkish aggression is going away. When they attack, it will be too late to start sending Il-76's/An-124's to Syria or Armenia. Past mistakes from Georgia and Yugoslavia will be repeated.

    Putin has done well to bring the country back from the brink of economic collapse though he really needs to leave his position to someone younger and with more character.


    Last edited by nero on Mon Oct 05, 2020 10:06 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Post  Tai Hai Chen on Mon Oct 05, 2020 10:01 pm

    Canada banned export of EO to Turkey used in TB2. From now on, each TB2 lost is a TB2 that can't be replaced.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/armenia/comments/j5ozog/another_important_victory_thank_you_our_canadian/

    In the meantime, Armenia can order Wing Loong 2 heavy attack drones from China. These were devastating in Libya used by Egypt and UAE against Turkey backed GNA.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAIG_Wing_Loong_II


    Last edited by Tai Hai Chen on Mon Oct 05, 2020 10:18 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  Tai Hai Chen on Mon Oct 05, 2020 10:12 pm

    Georgia started banning Turkey's Syrian cannon fodders deliveries to Azerbaijan. Il-76 turned back over Georgia. Rumor has it it was carrying the third batch of Syrian cannon fodders numbering 470.

    https://twitter.com/archer83able/status/1313208229715939328?s=21

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    Post  Tai Hai Chen on Mon Oct 05, 2020 10:18 pm

    https://twitter.com/ShStepanyan/status/1313151760744288256

    Armenian 2A36 howitzers in Karabakh

    https://twitter.com/200_zoka/status/1313209584543248388


    Last edited by Tai Hai Chen on Mon Oct 05, 2020 10:41 pm; edited 1 time in total
    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK on Mon Oct 05, 2020 10:34 pm

    Tai Hai Chen wrote:Canada banned export of EO to Turkey used in TB2. From now on, each TB2 lost is a TB2 that can't be replaced.


    Azerbaijan vs Armenia [Nagorno-Karabakh conflict] #2 - Page 3 EjlXq1UWoAENzkE?format=jpg&name=small

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    Post  JohninMK on Mon Oct 05, 2020 10:39 pm

    Meanwhile, cutting out the middleman...............




    Yörük Işık
    @YorukIsik
    ·
    9h
    Top Russian VIP. (Not Lavrov. He is in Moscow) Russian Government Russian Presidential Fleet
    IL96 300PU RA96019 climbs out of Yerevan Zvartnots and is fiying directly west, —likely to Ankara Esenboğa (?). Russian diplomacy in action.

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    Armenian
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    Post  Armenian on Mon Oct 05, 2020 10:50 pm

    JohninMK wrote:
    Tai Hai Chen wrote:Canada banned export of EO to Turkey used in TB2. From now on, each TB2 lost is a TB2 that can't be replaced.


    Azerbaijan vs Armenia [Nagorno-Karabakh conflict] #2 - Page 3 EjlXq1UWoAENzkE?format=jpg&name=small

    That's a very big win. They don't have any other alternatives for Wescam.

    + Win for Russia as well. Will give some time to find an effective counter measure.


    Last edited by Armenian on Mon Oct 05, 2020 11:05 pm; edited 2 times in total
    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Mon Oct 05, 2020 11:00 pm

    I wonder if Russia has enough forces to impose a naval blockade &/ no-fly zone on Turkey. 
    Once Turkey gets access to the Caspian, she'll stick her nose more to C. Asia, involving Russia, Pakistan, India & China even more, as none of them states would want another player there.
    It would also be better for Israel to stop supporting Azeris with arms- they r playing with fire.
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    Post  Tai Hai Chen on Mon Oct 05, 2020 11:02 pm

    There you go. From now on Turkey can't make another TB2.

    https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/canada-suspends-arms-export-permits-to-turkey-amid-concerns-of-human-rights-abuses-1.5133566

    https://www.jpost.com/international/canada-halts-drone-sales-to-turkey-after-claims-of-use-by-azerbaijan-644666


    Last edited by Tai Hai Chen on Mon Oct 05, 2020 11:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
    lyle6
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    Post  lyle6 on Mon Oct 05, 2020 11:09 pm

    nero wrote:Russia's latest actions in Syria, Libya and Armenia are very lackluster and do not inspire good confidence in their ability to do much at all, except to form meaningless ceasefires that will be broken at the convenience of the enemy.

    I understand that reality is often much more complicated than that, though for Turkey the reality is that the Russians have done exactly fuck all in these countries to deter Turkish aggression. The results of which we can see today in Armenia.

    In addition to this, Turkey has sent over 15 convoys to Idlib in the last few days - with increased rebel activity it is quite likely that they are going to open up a new front here and attack the Syrian Arab Army, possibly to push them back from the M5 highway.

    The clock is ticking and the opportunity for actual determent of Turkish aggression is going away. When they attack, it will be too late to start sending Il-76's/An-124's to Syria or Armenia. Past mistakes from Georgia and Yugoslavia will be repeated.

    Putin has done well to bring the country back from the brink of economic collapse though he really needs to leave his position to someone younger and with more character.

    Russia's actions have always been adequate and in line with their overall strategic goals for the region. Too much has been made of how passive their responses were but they are not the ones who have spent blood, treasure, and political capital with not much to show for it. If Turkey wishes to continue pissing away her very limited resources why shouldn't the Russians oblige them? As Napoleon said, "never interrupt your enemy while he is making a mistake" - and the Russians have certainly taken that page of his book to heart.

    And they've sent a convoy - who cares? The Idlib Jihadis are a spent force. They can't even muster the strength to resist the SAA and their last counter-offensive made with the support of the Turkish drone fleet ended with much of that fleet wrecked and the SAA advancing to the M5. They've even turned to exporting jihadis en masse, sapping Idlib and North Syria of valuable manpower. They have never been as much of a joke as they are now.

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