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    2020 Belarusian protests

    LMFS
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    Post  LMFS Mon Aug 17, 2020 4:06 pm

    flamming_python wrote:With 90% of the country against him now?

    I see PR tricks have not yet lost their effectiveness and a 10% of West-leaning snobs with the help of some foreign agitators can be taken for the overwhelming majority of the country... hats off to the regime change crew, they are with a difference the best remaining trump card of the empire  respekt

    Luka can assemble rallies himself, can use fancy angles when filming crowds, talk about polish imperialism and Ukranian nazis and use all the tricks in the propagandists' bag too, I am sure Russians must have a ton specialists studying the regime change technology form all possible angles. The reality is no crowd organizes themselves in an effective way without an abundant supply of funds, a proper chain of command and the necessary local specialists and media support, and that is relatively easy to disrupt if the state structures do their job and are not infiltrated or scared of doing what is necessary.

    Revolutionary left is always in search for the next "spontaneous" eruption of the masses, so you may not be very inclined to admit 90% of the revolutions consist on fools of the productive classes blindly supporting a new elite against the previous one, and this applies to maidans eminently, since they are just a very sophisticated and technological form of popular manipulation. If the state shows itself solid and convinced of what needs to be done the protests will subdue, despite all the squealing in the Western media.

    Any cooperation with such a plan on the side of Russia will lead to a Maidan in Russia. No-one in Russia is going to think this is a good idea just to keep Batka in power.

    90% of the people do not even understand what is going on. Heads of state will keep talking about the brotherly people of Russia and Belarus in the public sphere but behind the curtains put people under direct recommendation from Moscow in the new government. Otherwise what is the point of helping Luka, so that he survives this maidan only to backstab Russia immediately after? This time over I think it is either full integration or face the torches and pitchforks...

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    Rodion_Romanovic
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Mon Aug 17, 2020 4:27 pm

    flamming_python wrote:
    Rodion_Romanovic wrote:
    auslander wrote:

    Classes are not in Ukrainian and never were. There was one school in Bahxchisarai that used Tatar language but that school folded when Mejlis ran for the hills 'long about 26 February 2014.

    Schools today are taught in Russian. Ukrainian and Tatar languages are offered as courses in the main school curriculum, as are English, French and German, the later two if there is enough demand for a full class. I do not know the number of schools that offer Tatari but I would aver that what few that do are in and around Bahxchisarai, the old Tatar Khanate capitol. Ukrainian, I have no idea which schools and where offer that language, but I know for a fact that no school on north side of harbor in Sevastopol have that language class, there is zero demand.
    again, thank you very much for the extensive answer.
    It would have pleased to me if heard that classes were also offered on Italian,  since a part of Crimea used to be a Geonese colony before the Tatars... unfortunately the fake state that is modern Italy has no interest in bringing culture abroad (except for food)

    Na all the Italians were deported from Crimea to Central Asia along with Crimean Tatars, Greeks, Armenians, etc...
    And I'm guessing they all assimilated into other populations since because I've never heard of Soviet Italians. Or maybe they were sent to Italy after the war.
    It is a bit off topic,  but... italians were in Crimea from the 13th century until ottoman conquest in 1475 (they were mainly in coastal cities and had a sort of agreement with the Mongolian horde that controlled the main part of the peninsula and also most of the south of ukraine
    So they were gone since quite a bit of time, and the few that remained were probably assimilated into the tatar population...

    According to the encyclopedia Britannia (and reported in wikipedia)

    The Crimean Khanate, a vassal state of the Ottoman Empire, succeeded the Golden Horde and lasted from 1449 to 1783.[33] During the period of the Crimean Khanate the many pre-Catherine peoples, including Crimean Greeks, Italians, Goths, Cumans, and Kipchkaks of Crimea merged into the Crimean Tatar nation's Tat, Yaliboylu, and Steppe (or Nogay) subgroups



    By the way if you are interested at that time there were geonese colonies also near Odessa and upstream on the Danube, in Sochi, Novorossisk, in Abkhazia and in Georgia
    auslander
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    Post  auslander Mon Aug 17, 2020 8:03 pm

    The Greeks 'founded' Chersoness, aka Sevastopol, 2500 years ago. The ruins of Chersoness are still there, although somewhere around 200 meters of the land west of the ruins is now washed away by the sea. 2020 Belarusian protests - Page 9 Herson10

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    Walther von Oldenburg
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    Post  Walther von Oldenburg Mon Aug 17, 2020 11:12 pm

    ^^' Ultimately none of this matters now.

    There are no Greeks in Crimea. Some methinks are still left in Ukraine and Russia (Pontic Greeks). I wonder if they still speak their language (Romeika)
    kvs
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    Post  kvs Tue Aug 18, 2020 12:24 am

    There are Greeks scattered in southern Ukraine. One family that I knew through my relatives was from Odessa.

    The Donbass actually has Greek and Serb communities. I guess they must have squatted there after the Holodomor.

    auslander
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    Post  auslander Tue Aug 18, 2020 12:49 pm

    Walther von Oldenburg wrote:^^' Ultimately none of this matters now.

    There are no Greeks in Crimea. Some methinks are still left in Ukraine and Russia (Pontic Greeks). I wonder if they still speak their language (Romeika)

    There is a very small Greek community in Sevastopol, numbering possibly 2 score. There is also a very small community of 'the old ones', descendants of the original people here before the Greeks came 2500 years ago, perhaps 50 or so.
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    Post  Firebird Tue Aug 18, 2020 2:43 pm

    Does anyone know whats happened to RT... or the English one?
    It seems to have become a den of Neoliberal Atlantic integrationism.
    Any criticism of homosexuals, America/Neoliberalism etc means censorship. ANd some of its articles are just plain daft these days.
    Its about as "Russian state centric" as Shitlary Clinton.

    Here's their latest nonsense saying that Belarus will basically become part of the Yankee empire.
    https://www.rt.com/op-ed/498296-lukashenko-belarus-sovereign-state/

    Personally I think Putin should play hardball with Belarus.
    And the Ukraine is still a long way from joining the Eurasian Union.
    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Tue Aug 18, 2020 6:31 pm

    Firebird wrote:
    And the Ukraine is still a long way from joining the Eurasian Union.

    Never gonna happen, they will never meet the financial targets. The West got what it wanted, now it can rot quietly in the corner. A lesson for Belarus.
    auslander
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    Post  auslander Tue Aug 18, 2020 6:34 pm

    Firebird wrote:Does anyone know whats happened to RT... or the English one?
    It seems to have become a den of Neoliberal Atlantic integrationism.
    Any criticism of homosexuals, America/Neoliberalism etc means censorship. ANd some of its articles are just plain daft these days.
    Its about as "Russian state centric" as Shitlary Clinton.

    Here's their latest nonsense saying that Belarus will basically become part of the Yankee empire.
    https://www.rt.com/op-ed/498296-lukashenko-belarus-sovereign-state/

    Personally I think Putin should play hardball with Belarus.
    And the Ukraine is still a long way from joining the Eurasian Union.

    RT got slapped around a little last year by US and panicked, afraid of losing what they think is their main market, US/UK. At this time RT is useless as tits on a bull.

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    par far

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    Post  par far Tue Aug 18, 2020 6:56 pm

    "POLISH PSYCHOLOGICAL OPERATIONS UNIT ON GUARD OF ‘DEMOCRACY’ IN BELARUS."

    https://southfront.org/polish-psychological-operations-unit-on-guard-of-democracy-in-belarus/


    Russia cannot let Belarus turn into another Ukraine.

    "Thus, in the current situation, Poland is acting not only as a tool of the US policy in Europe, but also as an independent player with its own interests, and even as the leading country of the so far unformed bloc. And what is happening in Belarus could the debut of this union, the spearhead of which is directed precisely against Russia."

    Keeping Lukashenko in power is vital to Russia, if a western puppet comes, than it will be trouble for Russia. Lukashenko will be like Erdogan, someone Russia can talk to and control to a certain extent.

    If something bad happens in Belarus, than it sends a bad message to other CTSO countries and alliances that Russia is involved in.

    Hopefully these fucking Poles learn a valuable lesson of not fucking around.
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Tue Aug 18, 2020 8:25 pm

    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/belarus-protests-grow-putin-shows-no-sign-propping-embattled-ruler-n1237079

    https://www.pravdareport.com/world/144862-belarus_lukashenko/


    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Tue Aug 18, 2020 9:05 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : add link)
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    Post  par far Tue Aug 18, 2020 11:51 pm

    "As EU talks sanctions, Putin warns Merkel & Macron foreign interference in Belarus’ affairs is ‘unacceptable’ & could backfire."

    https://www.rt.com/russia/498309-belarus-affairs-putin-merkel-talk/






    "BBC grilled for interviewing ‘Polish neo-Nazi’ about Belarus protests."


    https://www.rt.com/news/498334-belarus-reporter-bbc-neo-nazi/


    It is the same assholes that are responsible for the mess in Ukraine, hopefully Russian FSB are involved in this and helping Belarus.
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    Post  Firebird Wed Aug 19, 2020 12:52 am

    JohninMK wrote:
    Firebird wrote:
    And the Ukraine is still a long way from joining the Eurasian Union.

    Never gonna happen, they will never meet the financial targets. The West got what it wanted, now it can rot quietly in the corner. A lesson for Belarus.

    But surely the idea is that the Ukraine is a mess and does the low cost grunt work, whilst being a counterbalance to the Muslim area that is Central Asia. All unions/trading blocs have wealthier and weaker members. Thats why Germany never had any intention of releasing Greece from the EU. And why the EU sucked up all those low wage places in E Europe and even considered adding Turkey.

    auslander wrote:
    Firebird wrote:Does anyone know whats happened to RT... or the English one?
    It seems to have become a den of Neoliberal Atlantic integrationism.
    Any criticism of homosexuals, America/Neoliberalism etc means censorship. ANd some of its articles are just plain daft these days.
    Its about as "Russian state centric" as Shitlary Clinton.

    Here's their latest nonsense saying that Belarus will basically become part of the Yankee empire.
    https://www.rt.com/op-ed/498296-lukashenko-belarus-sovereign-state/

    Personally I think Putin should play hardball with Belarus.
    And the Ukraine is still a long way from joining the Eurasian Union.

    RT got slapped around a little last year by US and panicked, afraid of losing what they think is their main market, US/UK. At this time RT is useless as tits on a bull.

    Surely RT was never meant to be about profit. Particularly in the West, media empires are about power or influence not profit first and foremost. Its hardly a big investment for Russia to list RT on satellite channels etc.

    If Westerners want a Neoliberal load of shite, they can watch BBC/ITV etc. I watched RT because it was refreshing and opposed the Neoliberal American empire bullshit.

    I thought Putin had learned about what happens when u try and placate Washington, 5th Columnists/Atlantic integrationists.
    Maybe all he really wants is nice BMWs for the Russian middle class. I was still hoping he wants Russia as a great power, not some bitch of Washington.
    Its all very strange. I always thought Belarus alongside Russia was a foregone conclusion and that progress with places like Georgia and the Ukraine would be very noticeable by 2020. It seems that the situation is no better than 4/5 yrs ago.
    When will Russia give America a taste of its own medicine and cause mayhem to those who harm Russia from afar. The BLM nonsense would be the perfect chance.
    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Wed Aug 19, 2020 1:36 am

    Firebird wrote:Does anyone know whats happened to RT... or the English one?
    It seems to have become a den of Neoliberal Atlantic integrationism.
    Any criticism of homosexuals, America/Neoliberalism etc means censorship. ANd some of its articles are just plain daft these days.
    Its about as "Russian state centric" as Shitlary Clinton.

    Here's their latest nonsense saying that Belarus will basically become part of the Yankee empire.
    https://www.rt.com/op-ed/498296-lukashenko-belarus-sovereign-state/

    Personally I think Putin should play hardball with Belarus.
    And the Ukraine is still a long way from joining the Eurasian Union.

    Did it ever occur to you that Russia wants Lukashenko gone too?

    He has been a colossal pain in the ass and will definitely not be missed

    SeigSoloyvov
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Wed Aug 19, 2020 9:17 am

    Yes they want him gone but their main problem is can the Russians replace him on such short notice.

    Going by the way Russia has been acting towards Luka it's clear they would not cry at his removal but they aren't in a position to ensure if he does step down the person who takes his place will play ball with them.

    In the end, for now, Russia needs him to stay in power and it's clear ONCE again they have been caught with their pants down.

    The main goal for the Russians should be to add Belarus to the federation (Putin is on record wanting this), otherwise, they keep taking these same risks with and you only need one fuck up to completely lose Belarus

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    Post  Werewolf Wed Aug 19, 2020 11:21 am

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:Yes they want him gone but their main problem is can the Russians replace him on such short notice.

    Going by the way Russia has been acting towards Luka it's clear they would not cry at his removal but they aren't in a position to ensure if he does step down the person who takes his place will play ball with them.

    In the end, for now, Russia needs him to stay in power and it's clear ONCE again they have been caught with their pants down.

    The main goal for the Russians should be to add Belarus to the federation (Putin is on record wanting this), otherwise, they keep taking these same risks with and you only need one fuck up to completely lose Belarus

    There shouldn't be even 3 russian countries in the first place. Belarus and Ukraine should be part of Russia. The treason by the communists like Lenin is what is bringing problems for many years and will continue for decades.

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    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Wed Aug 19, 2020 2:10 pm

    Looks like someone important arrived from Moscow yesterday in a Tu-214TPU. FSB?

    2020 Belarusian protests - Page 9 Eft_kBoXoAAPgzd?format=jpg&name=small
    George1
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    Post  George1 Wed Aug 19, 2020 2:59 pm

    i created a new topic because situation in Belarus after elections isnt only a subject concerning russia-Belarus relations
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    Post  par far Wed Aug 19, 2020 4:13 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:Yes they want him gone but their main problem is can the Russians replace him on such short notice.

    Going by the way Russia has been acting towards Luka it's clear they would not cry at his removal but they aren't in a position to ensure if he does step down the person who takes his place will play ball with them.

    In the end, for now, Russia needs him to stay in power and it's clear ONCE again they have been caught with their pants down.

    The main goal for the Russians should be to add Belarus to the federation (Putin is on record wanting this), otherwise, they keep taking these same risks with and you only need one fuck up to completely lose Belarus

    Agree with you Seig, that keeping Luka in power should be in Russia's interests.

    The opposition is CIA controlled, they want to leave all alliances with Russia and join the EU and NATO.

    This sends the wrong message to other countries that are in alliances with Russia.

    "A CLOSER LOOK AT BELARUSIAN OPPOSITION’S HEAVILY ANTI-RUSSIAN NATIONAL POLICY PLANS."

    https://southfront.org/a-closer-look-at-belarusian-oppositions-heavily-anti-russian-national-policy-plans/
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    Post  par far Wed Aug 19, 2020 4:14 pm

    JohninMK wrote:Looks like someone important arrived from Moscow yesterday in a Tu-214TPU. FSB?

    2020 Belarusian protests - Page 9 Eft_kBoXoAAPgzd?format=jpg&name=small


    It doesn't say where its headed to.
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    Post  calripson Wed Aug 19, 2020 4:30 pm

    par far wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:Yes they want him gone but their main problem is can the Russians replace him on such short notice.

    Going by the way Russia has been acting towards Luka it's clear they would not cry at his removal but they aren't in a position to ensure if he does step down the person who takes his place will play ball with them.

    In the end, for now, Russia needs him to stay in power and it's clear ONCE again they have been caught with their pants down.

    The main goal for the Russians should be to add Belarus to the federation (Putin is on record wanting this), otherwise, they keep taking these same risks with and you only need one fuck up to completely lose Belarus

    Agree with you Seig, that keeping Luka in power should be in Russia's interests.

    The opposition is CIA controlled, they want to leave all alliances with Russia and join the EU and NATO.

    This sends the wrong message to other countries that are in alliances with Russia.

    "A CLOSER LOOK AT BELARUSIAN OPPOSITION’S HEAVILY ANTI-RUSSIAN NATIONAL POLICY PLANS."

    https://southfront.org/a-closer-look-at-belarusian-oppositions-heavily-anti-russian-national-policy-plans/

    Belarus is not joining Russia - that ship has sailed. The Russian political elite including Putin show zero interest in actually incorporating any former republics with the notably exception of Crimea. People under 35 in Belarus and Ukraine have totally drank the Western social media/Hollywood kool-aid. They are not interested in becoming part of Russia. Only the total collapse of the western model including the EU/NATO and its financial system would create a possibility of Russia expanding and the Russian financial elite and oligarchs have no interest in seeing that scenario.
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Wed Aug 19, 2020 4:56 pm

    People under 35 in Belarus and Ukraine have totally drank the Western social media/Hollywood kool-aid.

    not all of them, certainly not most of the éthnic Russians. The same is true in the RF itself.
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    Post  par far Wed Aug 19, 2020 4:58 pm

    calripson wrote:
    par far wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:Yes they want him gone but their main problem is can the Russians replace him on such short notice.

    Going by the way Russia has been acting towards Luka it's clear they would not cry at his removal but they aren't in a position to ensure if he does step down the person who takes his place will play ball with them.

    In the end, for now, Russia needs him to stay in power and it's clear ONCE again they have been caught with their pants down.

    The main goal for the Russians should be to add Belarus to the federation (Putin is on record wanting this), otherwise, they keep taking these same risks with and you only need one fuck up to completely lose Belarus

    Agree with you Seig, that keeping Luka in power should be in Russia's interests.

    The opposition is CIA controlled, they want to leave all alliances with Russia and join the EU and NATO.

    This sends the wrong message to other countries that are in alliances with Russia.

    "A CLOSER LOOK AT BELARUSIAN OPPOSITION’S HEAVILY ANTI-RUSSIAN NATIONAL POLICY PLANS."

    https://southfront.org/a-closer-look-at-belarusian-oppositions-heavily-anti-russian-national-policy-plans/

    Belarus is not joining Russia - that ship has sailed. The Russian political elite including Putin show zero interest in actually incorporating any former republics with the notably exception of Crimea. People under 35 in Belarus and Ukraine have totally drank the Western social media/Hollywood kool-aid. They are not interested in becoming part of Russia. Only the total collapse of the western model including the EU/NATO and its financial system would create a possibility of Russia expanding and the Russian financial elite and oligarchs have no interest in seeing that scenario.


    It is not about joining Belarus into Russia calripson, it is more about keeping Russian influence around Russia.

    You are right about the youth in Ukraine and Belarus drinking NATO/Zionist/Hollywood kool aid, I would love to ask the youth in Ukraine how that kool aid tastes.
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    Post  JohninMK Wed Aug 19, 2020 5:12 pm

    par far wrote:
    JohninMK wrote:Looks like someone important arrived from Moscow yesterday in a Tu-214TPU. FSB?


    It doesn't say where its headed to.
    Sorry, didn't put second picture in

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    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Wed Aug 19, 2020 5:17 pm

    par far wrote:

    You are right about the youth in Ukraine and Belarus drinking NATO/Zionist/Hollywood kool aid, I would love to ask the youth in Ukraine how that kool aid tastes.

    The US kool aid is past its sell by date. Today's reality is very different to what they think it is. All very well if they want to be up to their necks in debt. The boat that Poland embarked upon sailed a long time ago and the money is no longer available.

    Presumably if they broke away from direct Russian influence then Russian purchases of Belarusian goods would start to fall. Is that a lot of stuff?

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