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    Turkish court orders that HAgia Sofia is transferred into a mosque

    Aristide
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    Turkish court orders that HAgia Sofia is transferred into a mosque Empty Turkish court orders that HAgia Sofia is transferred into a mosque

    Post  Aristide on Fri Jul 10, 2020 7:13 pm

    So it happened mad ErDogan will make the Hagia Sofia a mosque...

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/10/world/europe/hagia-sophia-mosque-turkey.html

    Commentators here in France say its the last options Erdogan has for his dieing regime. Turkish economy is collapsing. His islamist support backfired. His border opening for refugees did not work.

    Now all he has is to stir up religious hate.

    I visited the Hagia Sofia in 2015 with my parents and its an amazing building. I know it has so much importance for orthodox christians, like St. Peter in Rome for us catholics.

    How is russias opinion regarding that? Russia is orthodox.

    One thing i might add...that France did not help Constantinople when the turks attacked it is biggest shame of our history.

    Our country could have prevented that. But we sat still and watched, just for political games.
    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon on Fri Jul 10, 2020 9:05 pm


    Hey, their land their business

    They are free to do whatever they want with their property

    Cyberspec
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    Post  Cyberspec on Sat Jul 11, 2020 1:57 am

    Russian deputies called for it to remain a museum...apparently that pissed off a lot of Turks

    https://politobzor.net/218535-russkie-zabyli-lenina-turki-vozmuscheny-apellyaciyami-rf-k-istorii-ayya-sofii.html
    ultimatewarrior
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    Post  ultimatewarrior on Sat Jul 11, 2020 4:41 am

    This sour relation between Turkey and Greece, not that it was good in the first place.
    Aristide
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    Post  Aristide on Sat Jul 11, 2020 10:28 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Hey, their land their business

    They are free to do whatever they want with their property


    They are not. Its UNESCO world heritage. It belongs all of humanity.
    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Jul 11, 2020 12:14 pm

    Aristide wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    Hey, their land their business

    They are free to do whatever they want with their property

    They are not. Its UNESCO world heritage. It belongs all of humanity.

    Unless all of humanity becomes owner of Istanbul it's Turkish property

    If West wanted to avoid this scenario they shouldn't​ have betrayed Byzantium during crusades or sided with Turks in wars against Russia couple of centuries ago

    That train has left the station now, finders keepers



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    nomadski
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    Post  nomadski on Sat Jul 11, 2020 4:28 pm


    It could be Mosque on Friday. Church on Sunday. And World heritage centre for tourist, rest of the week. QED. Other religions or group should be able to hire out also. For right price.

    ahmedfire
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    Post  ahmedfire on Sat Jul 11, 2020 5:11 pm

    Erdogan a year ago said he will never turn it to a mosque , he lied i think .

    Anyway he is just playing by the radical muslims who would be proud of that .

    Alazhar Islamic University in Egypt already refused that decision .

    ultimatewarrior
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    Post  ultimatewarrior on Sun Jul 12, 2020 5:06 am

    Erdogan is Islamo Fascist. In Turkey every person born is automatically classified as Muslim. Erdogan arms Muslim Brotherhood to take over Egypt.
    nomadski
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    Post  nomadski on Mon Jul 13, 2020 6:20 pm

    It is mostly not problem with Islam. But the class in power. Who misinterpret a very old book and  manipulate people's  feelings. To keep minority in power. Usually they are right wing and anti - democratic forces, from market traders or Bazzar or big land owners or factory owners or property developers, they organise the poor working class into their army and use it against the workers themselves. Thieves all of them. In every place is the same. Old vague text and some outdated law, allows them to control people with religious feelings of hatred or fear.  Extreme and cruel punishment against the sick or weak, by excuse of religion. Misusing God's religion against the people. Dictatorial control. The enemy is a class enemy. Parallels  also exist in Judaism ( zionism) and Christianity ( Evangelical and Presbyterians), Hindu nationalists, Buddhist vigilante monks, Pol pot  " communist" genocides and Colombian drug dealing and Jungle dwelling Marxists.........


    https://www.patheos.com/blogs/daylightatheism/2016/08/the-white-supremacist-roots-of-evangelicalism/
    Rodion_Romanovic
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic on Tue Jul 14, 2020 7:13 am

    I read a comment (in an italian telegram page) where it was alleged that this operation was done with Putin's acknowledgement, also in order to weaken the Patriarch of Constantinople, after the latter granted autocephaly to the Ukrainian Orthodox Church.
    nomadski
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    Post  nomadski on Tue Jul 14, 2020 9:44 am


    I doubt very much, this to be the case. Since problem in Ukraine is growth of extreme right wing politics and Fascism. Not political influence of Church on politics. I never noticed any news about any politically significant move by Ukraine Church, about anti - Russian sentiments. More likely this news is an attempt to sow division.

    The most obvious political implication, is further antagonising Christian / Muslim conflict in the Balkans or Russia. Far more concerning.
    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon on Tue Jul 14, 2020 11:22 am

    Rodion_Romanovic wrote:I read a comment (in an italian telegram page) where it was alleged that this operation was done with Putin's acknowledgement, also in order to weaken the Patriarch of Constantinople, after the latter granted autocephaly to the Ukrainian Orthodox Church.

    Actually this would be pretty funny Cool

    I bet old pappy wasn't expecting this lol1
    Regular
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    Post  Regular on Wed Jul 15, 2020 11:13 pm

    It was lost when Constantinople fell. Simple as.
    Cyberspec
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    Post  Cyberspec on Thu Jul 16, 2020 2:29 am

    Rodion_Romanovic wrote:I read a comment (in an italian telegram page) where it was alleged that this operation was done with Putin's acknowledgement, also in order to weaken the Patriarch of Constantinople, after the latter granted autocephaly to the Ukrainian Orthodox Church.

    There've been several articles on a similar theme...not directly saying Putin backed the move but that the Americans didn't support the Patriarch as he had hoped after helping them in UKR, and now finds himself in a weakened position
    kvs
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    Post  kvs on Thu Jul 16, 2020 2:38 am

    Rodion_Romanovic wrote:I read a comment (in an italian telegram page) where it was alleged that this operation was done with Putin's acknowledgement, also in order to weaken the Patriarch of Constantinople, after the latter granted autocephaly to the Ukrainian Orthodox Church.

    The Patriarch of Constantinople is a rotten stooge. He is linked to money issues in the USA. Hardly fitting for such a position. His
    transparent, illegal pandering to NATzO interests in the case of Ukraine establish his credentials as a stooge.

    kvs
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    Post  kvs on Thu Jul 16, 2020 2:41 am

    Cyberspec wrote:
    Rodion_Romanovic wrote:I read a comment (in an italian telegram page) where it was alleged that this operation was done with Putin's acknowledgement, also in order to weaken the Patriarch of Constantinople, after the latter granted autocephaly to the Ukrainian Orthodox Church.

    There've been several articles on a similar theme...not directly saying Putin backed the move but that the Americans didn't support the Patriarch as he had hoped after helping them in UKR, and now finds himself in a weakened position

    What a surprise. As with the Kiev regime, the super rich west is very stingy with the pennies it throws at its stooges. But those stooges
    are so blind with the mythical wealth of the west which they think will trickle down to them, that they are not able to see this show stopper
    detail.

    Only Russia has been and to some extent continues to be stupid enough to feed serious coin to parasites. Russia fed Country 404 over
    200 billion US dollars from the 1990s to 2014. This is at a time when it was suffering one of the greatest depressions in world history.

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Thu Jul 16, 2020 6:54 am

    Russia was only helping a brother nation, but now that brother has renounced all ties with Russia, then Russia can look to its own interests instead... a good result for Russia, but not so good for the people of the Ukraine in the short or long term.

    They are going to lose a lot of history, most Orthodox churches are more like museums, and the buildings themselves have value, but as mentioned, this is a political decision and they have shown themselves to be no friend of Russia or indeed Turkey with their support of US actions in Ukraine... I would suspect Erdogan probably sees them as US puppets and therefore basically hostile to him... what is is doing is a logical reaction to their actions in the past and potential for actions in the future.
    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon on Thu Jul 16, 2020 11:22 am

    GarryB wrote:Russia was only helping a brother nation...

    The Ukraine was never Russian brother nation and they never made secret of that fact nor the disdain they feel for them

    Only Russian morons were stupid enough to think they were

    Walther von Oldenburg
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    Post  Walther von Oldenburg on Thu Jul 16, 2020 11:41 am

    You're talking about Western Ukrainians (those from territory controlled by Austro-Hungary and later Poland).

    In Soviet times most Ukrainians were indistinguishable from Russians.
    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon on Thu Jul 16, 2020 12:02 pm

    Walther von Oldenburg wrote:You're talking about Western Ukrainians (those from territory controlled by Austro-Hungary and later Poland).

    In Soviet times most Ukrainians were indistinguishable from Russians.

    I am talking about post Cold War

    They see themselves as very distinguishable
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Fri Jul 17, 2020 6:45 am

    The fact that the Russians continued to try to treat them well reflects on both the Russians and what the Ukrainians have become...

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