The Indians ordered the su30MKI with expensive Israeli and french components (possibly at that time more advanced than the russian ones, even if this fact is not anymore true at present time). By the way, I believe Indians have a sort of fetish trying to mishmash many parts from different sources even when it is not advantageous (e.g fitting Israeli barak short range missiles in their shivalik class frigates instead of Tor, even if almost everything else is of russian origin.
They also have a habit of complaining about how expensive things are... yet the very process of buying a plane and then wanting foreign bits to be added to that design makes it more expensive. The most expensive components of the Su-30MKI are the foreign bits, but they blame Russia for it being too expensive despite it being rather cheaper than the Rafales they have bought.
India paid $250 million as that was the asking amount to join the project.
Did they think they could start producing Su-57MKIs straight away? No one sells 5th gen fighter technology for 250 million dollars... that might get you a flight on a prototype, but it doesn't buy you anything...
However, the project itself had started long before India joined. Indian government never said that they intend to purchase the Su 57. The JV with Russia was for the development of a stealth fighter called the Prospective Multirole Fighter or PMF. The PMF probably would have borrowed several features including stealth from the Su 57. However, IAF officers who visited the Sukhoi complex to inspect the Su 57 were not satisfied either with the stealth features or with the engine.
And now with China deploying S-400 in Tibet they will blow every single Su 57 out of the sky within Indian airspace itself.
They wanted to take an existing design and modify it to their needs... ie Su-57MKI... but they would have to pay for that adaptation and they are talking about serious hardware changes if that is the case... increased stealth is a money pit that will make the aircraft too expensive to operate and wont be effective against all radar which makes it a gimmick. Improved engines... if you want to fully fund development costs I am sure they will share... but you have to pay... you can't just pay the fee to get in the door and expect to go on all the rides for free.
If S-400 is so damn powerful I guess you don't want any aircraft any more...
Paid more compared to whom? They paid what France asked for after several rounds of price negotiation. Rafale is a superb aircraft. A more profound questions could have been why did the IAF purchase 250 + Su 30 MKI if they still needed an aircraft like Rafale?
For 36 Rafales they spent 8 billion dollars... to buy 250 Rafales would cost about 55 billion... for that sort of money they could invest in the development of radar and engine technology that would make Rafale look ordinary and buy 1,000 planes to put it in.
India never said it will purchase Su 57. India wanted an aircraft called the PMF. Su 57 would have served as the baseline model. India's requirement for stealth were different from that of RuAF. IOW, India wanted an aircraft that is more stealthy than Su 57. Russia has said they won't be able to design such an aircraft anytime soon.
Such a plan is chasing ones own tail... even if you manage to develop a plane design that cannot be detected beyond 80km range... how long do you think before radar technology improves and that becomes 160km or more... your stealth plane wont suddenly get cheaper to make or buy when the enemy can defeat its invisibility shield... besides.... the obvious question... why would India care about Russia selling Su-57s to China if India is not buying Su-57s anyway... China has Su-27s and Su-30MKKs and Su-35s... but not the same as Indian Flankers or Russian Flankers either.
Even RuAF has not purchased Su 57 in decent numbers. Just 11 have been ordered.
A preliminary order of 76 has been made over the next 5 years or so and after that the expectation is that they will likely order more too.
First you say they Chinese don't copy, then you say they want to copy (or derive) from the new engines. Yes the fact that China has about 3 stealth projects underway means they are not really intersted in buying substantial SU-57s, so why can India not ask for a no China clause?
For the same reason the Russians can't demand a no America clause that prevents India from buying any American military equipment while buying Russian kit.
India can buy from any country they like and Russia can sell to any country they like... that is how it works.
Yes India is much less advanced then China, no doubt there at all. They are at a big disadvantage to China.
They seem to want to look at France and the US for their salvation at the moment...
The US is certainly keen to use India against China like it used China against the Soviets before. China certainly benefited from that experience and India might too. I don't think Russia wants to play such silly games as it has felt the US sanctions itself.
I was under the impression (from news releases) that 76 have been ordered by Russia. Not true?
AFAIK in addition to the 11 pre serial models...
The clause will be SU-57 related only. I don't see China doing much weapons business with Russia any more. They are prettu self sufficient at this point. So what losses would they incur?
China is a neighbour for Russia and has a lot of money for investment and development... and is willing to invest in Russia to earn money for both parties... why would Russia risk such a relationship on some planes India might or might not buy, but seem happy to criticise...
So far 11 Su 57 have been built. By 2028 it is expected 76 will join the RuAF.
So a further 76 have been ordered...
Is that so? Yes the volume of trade (in defense) has gone down drastically but China continues to import engines for aircraft.
Despite building 250 + J-11 China still purchased 24 Su 35. Meaning they are still struggling to design even 4th++ gen aircraft. They might want to purchase Su 57 once it's available
Indeed they might. Building working planes is more than just building a shell that looks pretty and filling it with electronics and engines and radar... and if they want to buy a substantial number of Su-57s why would Russia wants to tie its hands with India and say no?
Of course if they order two they will say no... I suspect the order will need to be rather substantial... rather more than 36 planes and they wont be paying 40 million dollars each for them either...
DRDO has developed a AESA radar called Uttam (Sanskrit for Best). It will be fitted on the Tejas Mark 1A
So scale it up and put it in your other planes already...
India talks about made in India, but is such a compulsive shopper...
Are these APS - Arena, Drozd using AESA radars that were derived from AESA radars already installed on Mig and Sukhoi fighter jets?
Not even close... they are just very simple radio echo sounders that detect incoming objects that quickly determine speed and direction and decide if it is going to hit the vehicle being protected and if it is to determine which fixed interception rocket would do the best job of stopping it... the angle and speed are fixed so it is a case of determining when the target is in the kill zone and launching the correct munition at the precise right time for the interception.
- I think China just agreed to buy a batch of SU35 to use a a benchmark for its own aircraft development. Russia figures the platform is quite old and already the backbone of Chinese AC tech it may as well get some extra $$.
The Su-35 is not old at all, it is relatively new and the Russian version has early prototype equipment for the 5th gen Su-57 for testing and speeding up Su-57 development. The Chinese Su-35 will of course be different.
In a conflict between Russia and China fighter planes wont be particularly significant, while the money from the sales wont go to bonuses for CEOs of the company... they will fund improvements and new developments that will make Russian aircraft even better.
Russia is also going to build a strategic early warning system so they will know when they are under ballistic or cruise missile attack... Russia is not afraid of a strong China... I don't know why India is.
The British and Americans are afraid because China is becoming a serious rival to their monopoly, but the same British and American voices warning India of the danger of China are also likely warning India of the danger of buying Russian military equipment too... you could listen to one warning and not the other, but it comes down to credibility and I think the second warning shows they are more interested in weapons sales than actually caring about India.
Giving India and exclusive on the SU-57 confidentially will not at all mean th end of exports to China. Its only one platform and not likely China will buy them.
They don't even want to buy any (india) so why agree not to sell to China?
Is India going to start demanding little clauses in all their purchases now.... what happens if they decide to give in to some American pressure and start demanding that Russia does not sell any Su-30s to Iran... it is a slippery slope.